back to article German defense chat overheard by Russian eavesdroppers on Cisco's WebEx

The German Ministry of Defense (Bundeswehr) has confirmed that a recording of a call between high-ranking officials discussing war efforts in Ukraine, leaked by Russian media, is legitimate. Senior government officials have also confirmed Russian reports that the call was hosted on and tapped via Cisco's WebEx video …

  1. Mike 137 Silver badge

    Why?

    "the call was hosted on and tapped via Cisco's WebEx video conferencing platform rather than any kind of secure, military-grade comms"

    There's almost certainly a standard somewhere that requires mil-grade comms for secret conferencing. Why not use it? I suppose for the same reason that the SIPRNet protocols were ignored when Chelsea Manning was exfiltrating the Wiki Leaks files. Standards are fine, but they have to be followed -- particularly where potential international conflict is being discussed.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      But the last time the Germans used mil-grade encrypted comms it also went rather badly.

      Although if there is one outfit that should have learned the lesson of not trusting your military comms is secure - it's the chaps in Berlin in pointy helmets

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        Re: Why?

        The simplest answer is usually the right one.

        Conferences send out plain text emails with links to participants. The Russians got ahold of one. Happened many times before.

        The Russians just burned an important source of intel for a 2 minute news blurb which is idiotic, but perfectly understandable with the current muppet in chief.

        1. Necrohamster Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          Conferences send out plain text emails with links to participants. The Russians got ahold of one.

          I'm inclined to agree. That, or the mark's hotel room was bugged.

          If the last few years have taught us anything, it's that the Russians aren't the geniuses we previously thought they were. They are good at disinformation though

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why?

          At the turn of the century I worked for a UK tech company and we had a weekly telephone conference with our US parent. It wasn't unusual to dial in only to find out that an earlier meeting using the same number (my boss's US boss's telecon number) was still in progress so the SOP was to put your phone on mute and wait until the meeting ended. I was travelling so dialled in from a motorway services car park. There was a meeting going on and I didn't recognize anyone so I muted and waited. After a couple of minutes someone said "who joined". I unmuted to identify myself heard a gaggle of US voices saying things like "classified" and "purple" and "Brits" and "fuck" before the line went dead. The US boss had postponed the telecon with us Brits but I hadn't seen it cos I was on the road and he'd been on a call about a classified US project. There was hell to pay at his end but luckily for him there was no one from the customer or government on the call otherwise he would have been fired and they would probably have tried to have me fired too.

          1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: Why?

            When I was involved in 'sensitive' telephone conferences the policy was, once the call had started, to lock it so that no new connection could be made. OK, so it did take several years for this feature to be used by management.

            Maybe they should have watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYu_bGbZiiQ

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The Russians just burned an important source of intel for a 2 minute news blurb

          yes but no but yes but no but, it's a nice theory, but in practice, both sides (and 'actors') prefer short-term gain over long-term one. Don't mention the war, don't mention brexit, etc.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why?

          One of the participants was at an airshow or other military themed event in Singapore. Soon after Chinese and Russian attendees were banned from German exhibits there - there's news articles on this aspect. I suspect the Germans knew something had happened but not necessarily the scale of it.

      2. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        During WWII cryptography as a science wasn't that well developed. Today it is and there are a myriad of ways to protect and secure communications with no hope of anyone breaking them in our lifetimes.

        If the Germans in WWII had used only slightly better key management and key rotation schedules we might never have been able to break their classified messages, even with those newfangled computers and such.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      It is weird. There is the BSI which produces bulletins on information security and companies in certain industries that are part of the critical infrastructure are required to follow the relevent information security bulletins. Hard to see Cisco's publically available WebEx getting a pass on this, not just for the hand "dial-in" feature, but also the guaranteed backdoor for friend and ally the USA and its collection of TLAs. Really, the work for secure end-to-end encryption calls has been done and at least two open source products are available and approved for use in Germany…

      But the Bundeswehr, along with many armies around the world, is famed for out of date kit and IT practices.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        >But the Bundeswehr, along with many armies around the world, is famed for out of date kit and IT practices.

        The Brits have some unbreakable cypher machines to sell them

        1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          What, us? The country of government by Whatsapp?

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Why?

            Specifically the country that sold all her post-war allies these unbreakable German enigma machines that they had been totally unable to break

    3. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      WebEx claims that it supports E2EE, but it must be specifically enabled at both ends. If one of the participants failed to do this the call was probably insecure and only provided TLS point-to-point encryption.

      I'll be anxiously awaiting the full report on how this breach occurred.

    4. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      Cupid srunts!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thank God!

    They didn't overhear the conversation about what Russian cell phone number, when called, detonates the nuclear warhead secreted in the Kremlin.

  3. Jellied Eel Silver badge

    Huh?

    "It is a hybrid disinformation attack. It is about division. It is about undermining our unity," he said.

    And yet it's been confirmed, at least in part. Plus there's some more interesting stuff, like apparently one of the participants was calling in from a Singapore hotel room. And early in the call, participants mentioned sending files via WhatsApp. But the conspiracy theories and disinformation is flying. Some suggest a German leaked this to try and stop Germany doing something stupid. Or an allied nation leaked it for mentioning foreign boots on the ground already.

    Or maybe there's some previously unknown vulnerability (or backdoor) that allows people to locate and invisibly join calls that are booked, or are in progress. Methinks this one could get fun as ideally, you'd need some way of knowing the call was happening, ie the participants diaries/schedules were also compromised.. Which could be a much bigger threat.

    But other than plotting how to involve the UK in a war crime, one of the aspects was something I'd been wondering about. Taurus is an ALCM, Ukraine doesn't have much in the way of 'A'. So mentioned the number of Su-25s had left, and how they'd need modifications taking months. I guess Russia may try to reduce the number of Su-25's even further.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Huh?

      "Or maybe there's some previously unknown vulnerability (or backdoor)"

      It's Cisco, of course it's a backdoor, don't you ever read Cisco's CVE entries for authentication bypass after authentication bypass.

      Stop buying Cisco shite

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        NSA, CIA, FBI all have keys…

        1. cyberdemon Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Huh?

          And the Kremlin, apparently

          That's the trouble with backdoors ...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Huh?

            I think with Cisco it's more of a front door. Saloon doors in fact.

    2. Strong as Taishan Mountains

      Re: Huh?

      Yes, the "misinformation" confirmed as authentic by the German government... Yes that one... Apparently misinformation means "anything inconvenient should the unwashed masses learn of it".

      Also, how is referring to the German military with Nazi terms such a slur? They're the ones sending Panzers to burn on the Don steppe... again.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        ... again

        Was that before or after the Soviets allied with the Nazi's, which they did from September 17, 1939 until June 22, 1941?

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: ... again

          which they did from September 17, 1939 until June 22, 1941?

          Bad troll. In a modern day context, it's perhaps more interesting that the descendents of actual Nazis are reuniting once again to kill Russians and start a new world war. Some in Ukraine are even flying the same flags and wearing the same insignia. Never again?

          1. DS999 Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: ... again

            Still repeating Putin's lies about Ukrainian "Nazis" like Zelenskyy. Nevermind that he's Jewish!

            Are there nazis in Ukraine? Sure, just like there are in Russia, the UK, the US, and many other places. Would you back Russia attacking the UK to "de-nazify" it? There are probably a lot more nazis in Russia than anywhere else...

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: ... again

              Don't feed the trolls.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: ... again

                well, to misquote, unless he's our troll ;)

            2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: ... again

              Still repeating Putin's lies about Ukrainian "Nazis"

              Those that ignore history are condemned to repeat it. Ukraine's red & black flag, their Galacian division, Azov, Right Sector etc etc. The last being a bit interesting given Yarosh has been hinting at coups again. But I'll just leave this here-

              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/43632454

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: ... again

                At least get your quotes right, Jellied Eel.

                "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: ... again

                  At least get your quotes right

                  If I were quoting it, I'd have put it in quote marks...

                  ..and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual.

                  Yep, that sums you and much of the left pretty succintly.

                  Now, next shift of the goalposts? Got more ad homs cued up?

              3. Charlie Clark Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: ... again

                Hang on, this is the Ukrainians you're talking about? Not the myriad Neo-Nazi groupings in Russia? Starting with Hitler's favourite: Wagner…

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: ... again

                  Hang on, this is the Ukrainians you're talking about? Not the myriad Neo-Nazi groupings in Russia? Starting with Hitler's favourite: Wagner…

                  Ah, playground arguments. Does Russia have units flying flags from the OUN? That red & black one? Does it have units that borrowed the insignia from the 2nd SS Panzer Division, and added the black sun that Wilhelm Landig invented for Wewelsburg, and as an alt-swastika? Or does it have units using the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS insignia?

                  The division is honored by the far-right in Ukraine and by some organizations of the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada. In 2020, the Ukrainian Supreme Court ruled that symbols of SS Division Galicia do not belong to the Nazis and were not banned in the country.

                  Or, to get even stranger-

                  https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineInvasionVideos/comments/164435f/the_ukrainian_army_khorne_group_unit_is/

                  A group running around using the Khorne insignia from Warhammer 40k. Blood for the blood god etc. One of the chaos gods from the Warhammer universe and not exactly benevolent. But then Ukraine is killing 'orcs', because both Zelensky, Amazon and an Austrian housepainter regarded orcs & slavs as subhumans.

                  Meanwhile, Russia had been cracking down on it's far-right groups. This is one of the reasons Navalny ended up in jail and being expelled from one of his former parties. So I really don't understand why so many people are supporting obvious nazis. Ukraine could have solved this problem, and will have to solve this if it wants to join the EU because most civilised countries banned nazi insignia. Ukraine has thus far refused to do this, and instead put up statues to war criminals like Bandera.

                  As for Zelensky. I've never seen him wearing a kippah and AFAIK he's not an observant Jew. He does have the advantage of being able to flee to a non-extradition country and put his money into Israeli banks with very strict secrecy laws. But this is also one of the reasons Zelensky probably doesn't have much of a future given Ukraine's 'Right Sector' nutjobs have been making more noises about replacing him. His term of office does expire soon after all.

                2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                  Re: ... again

                  Hang on, this is the Ukrainians you're talking about? Not the myriad Neo-Nazi groupings in Russia? Starting with Hitler's favourite: Wagner…

                  Charlie Clark,

                  Sir! Sir! I know this one! That's unfair. Dmitry Utkin, the military head of Wagner and the guy whose call-sign it was named for, was not an evil fascist at all! Despite the SS and death's head tatoos. No, he was officially described as being "a fan of the Nazi aesthetic." So that's alright then.

                  The Azov battalion that fought off the Russians in 2014 definitely had some dodgy people and neo-nazis involved. It was a private organisation and had to clean house in order to join the army reserves - but according to our Jellied Eel the Russian invasion is perfectly fine, and all the war crimes too. So that's OK then.

                  Whereas Wagner kept the commander with the SS tattoos and Wagner had loads of government contracts. And were working directly for the Russian Ministry of Defence in front-line military roles in Ukraine. Including their key role in the glorious Winter offensive to capture Bakhmut. But Russia has no Nazis.

                  We won't go into the Russian "filtration camps" full of Ukrainian civilians and the war crimes on an industrial scale...

                  1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                    Re: ... again

                    ...but according to our Jellied Eel the Russian invasion is perfectly fine, and all the war crimes too

                    Err.. I've never said that. I do think the invasion was justified, and more justified than say, our continued illegal occupation of Syria. Ukraine had been killing Russians since 2014, and was poised to try and recapture Donbas and Crimea. Russia intervened to prevent that ethnic cleansing. This is a justification we've used to intervene in other sovereign states before.

                    As for war crimes, I've said that all war crimes should be investigated, by any side. But that one's also got a little strange as there's just been ICC charges against Russians-

                    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68483012

                    The ICC said the latest warrants were due to there being reasonable grounds to believe that the two suspects were responsible for "missile strikes carried out by the forces under their command against the Ukrainian electric infrastructure".

                    And yet we did exactly the same thing when destroying Yugoslavia, bombing Baghdad or Tripoli.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: ... again

                      > our continued illegal occupation of Syria

                      Wagner and Russians in Syria::> 5000

                      USA: 200 (anti-ISIL forces).

                      Russians in Ukraine: ~400 000

                      > Ukraine had been killing Russians since 2014,

                      Man, you said there were no Russians in Donbass... and that it was a "revolt against the illegal coup known as the Orange Revolution".

                      What about MH17? Ever heard of a guy called Igor Girkin?

                      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                        Re: ... again

                        Wagner and Russians in Syria::> 5000

                        Russia is there at the request of the Syrian government. We are there illegally.

                        USA: 200 (anti-ISIL forces).

                        Strange the way 'ISIL' are mostly present in the areas the US controls. Oh, and the training camps. Who is being trained there, and why?

                        Man, you said there were no Russians in Donbass... and that it was a "revolt against the illegal coup known as the Orange Revolution".

                        Again you demonstrate your inability to quote correctly. Where did I mention "Orange Revolution"? But ethnic cleansing refers to oppressing or eliminating an ethnic group, ie Ukraine's Russian population. Again it's the same justification we used to invade and destroy Yugoslavia. And oddly enough, Russia used pretty much exactly the same language as we did to justify their SMO.

                        What about MH17?

                        What about it? Are you referring to the way Ukraine allowed civil aircraft to fly over Ukraine, despite knowing the seperatists had SAM systems that could shoot them down? Or are you referring to the myth of 'Russian' Buk-M1s? BellendCat went to great lengths to pretend those came from Russia, which originally they did. But if you've been keeping up with the news, part of the fighting around Avdeevka included a stronghold known as 'Ajax', previously an air defence installation that operated Buks. As did another base just south of Donbas International Airport. But that's all part of the propaganda, ie Russian invasion rather than civil war, and the seperatists helping themselves to the crapton of equipment that had been stockpiled or in service in Ukraine post- 1991.

                    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                      Re: ... again

                      Jellied Eel,

                      I think the words "exactly the same thing" don't quite mean what you think they do.

                      For example if you're comparing attacking the Baghdad electricity grid on day one of the war to liberate Kuwait in 1991 to Russia deliberately attacking the Ukrainian electricity infrastructure for two whole years in the current invasion of Ukraine - then you have probably failed in comprehension of basic english. Particularly as they concentrated those attacks in the Winter - presumably in order to sap civilian morale by trying to freeze lots of civilians to death - but made vastly fewer attacks in the Summer. Thus suggesting perhaps the civilians were in fact the target. They may have actual documentary/testimony evidence that the civilians were in fact the target - in which case they have a case for a war crime. If it's unclear, then not so much. If the electricity grid was taken out for a couple of days in order to disrupt conmand and control - then there's probably no case.

                      Electricity infrastructure, as with bridges, can be legitimate military targets. It depends. Partly it depends on intent, which is much harder to prove.

                      But of course, whataboutism is a typical Russian tactic from back in the old Soviet days.

                      You see the war crimes I was talking about was mass kidnapping of civilians, including tens of thousands of Ukrainian children. Or the organised mass murders at places like Bucha and Irpin. Clearly planned for the political and civilian leaders in order to make long-term occupation easier. Again out of the Soviet playbook. Or the mass artillery bombardments of cities, that the Russians started the war with. Such as using thermite from multiple launch rocket systems on Kharkiv and Mariupol - there was nice TV footage of that on day one of the war. That wasn't some minor aberation, or accident, that was in the fucking original war plan. The burning pieces fall from the sky and start fires. If they land on people, they cannot be extinguished with water - you can stop it burning temporarilty with water while you cut it out, or it burns down to the bone. That's what you support when you say:

                      I do think the invasion was justified

                      Because with the Russian army, comes the war crimes. It's what they do. It's how they fight. Hence when supposed Russians decided they'd like to leave the Russian federation - when Chechenya tried to secede, the Russian response was to destroy the capital city with artillery. That's their own citizens they killed in the thousands.

                      in reality, where there is war, there will be war crimes. It's unavoidable. NATO countries go to considerable effort to train their troops not to, to train their planners to avoid civilian casualties and to buy very expensive precision weapons to minimise that nasty euphemism "collaterol damage".

                      But the Russians don't do any of that. In Syria and Ukraine they deliberately target hospitals, in order to lower enemy morale. They use indiscriminate artillery attacks on cities like Kharkiv - even of people they claim to be Russian citizens - seeing as they annexed Mariupol. They literally organised death-squads they arrived in Bucha and Irpin in the first week of the war, which again means they were part of the war plan. That's what you support.

                      But oh no, you're just a free thinker who wants everyone to be treated equally.

                      You're at best a useful idiot (another Soviet KGB term). At worse, this is the government you work for.

                      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                        Re: ... again

                        For example if you're comparing attacking the Baghdad electricity grid on day one of the war to liberate Kuwait in 1991 to Russia deliberately attacking the Ukrainian electricity infrastructure for two whole years in the current invasion of Ukraine - then you have probably failed in comprehension of basic english.

                        Uhuh. I'm sure you can produce evidence for that, ie daily, weekly or monthly attacks?

                        If the electricity grid was taken out for a couple of days in order to disrupt conmand and control - then there's probably no case.

                        Or war industry. Or just electric trains. Electricity is needed for all sorts of miltary as well as civil uses, which is perhaps why Greens are so determined to destroy that infrastructure as well. Plus there's other boring details, like an attack on civilians to prevent heating. Oddly enough, most Ukrainian homes are heated by gas..

                        You see the war crimes I was talking about was mass kidnapping of civilians, including tens of thousands of Ukrainian children

                        Citation definetly needed. Tens of thousands? Really? But do parties to a conflict have a duty to protect civilians? Like kids abandoned in an orphanage in Mariupol as an example for where this meme started. Or reports from Ukrainians who asked Russia to evacuate their kids, but were too afraid to state this for fear of reprisals from nutjobs like Azov, who may view them as 'collaborators'.

                        Or the mass artillery bombardments of cities, that the Russians started the war with. Such as using thermite from multiple launch rocket systems on Kharkiv and Mariupol - there was nice TV footage of that on day one of the war.

                        Oh dear. SMO started Jan 22nd. Seige of Mariupol started Feb 22nd. You're really not very good at producing evidence, are you?

                        But the Russians don't do any of that. In Syria and Ukraine they deliberately target hospitals, in order to lower enemy morale. They use indiscriminate artillery attacks on cities like Kharkiv -

                        Uhuh. We've bombed hospitals as well. So is Israel at the moment. Hospitals housing military personnel can be legitimate targets, ie the defence Israel is using right now for attacking hospitals. Ukraine also uses indiscriminate artillery attacks, and had been since the 2014 civil war began, and is why this mess escalated in the first place. They're also busy yeeting drones in the general direction of Russia, hittiing civilian targets.

                        Two wrongs don't make a right, and again, all war crimes should be investigated. Not just the ones Ukraine whines about and often fabricates.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Oops.

                          > Oh dear. SMO started Jan 22nd. Seige[sic] of Mariupol started Feb 22nd. You're really not very good at producing evidence, are you?

                          (≧▽≦)

                          "SMO" On 24 February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine . Are you still using Julian calendar? Lenin changed that, remember?

                          Also The siege of Mariupol began on 24 February 2022 and lasted until 20 May

                          As a matter of fact, 22nd of Jan was the initial planned date that only Russian army insiders (and the CIA) are supposed to know about. But Putin kept delaying the launch. Looks like you're part of the "people in the know". How odd.

                          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                            Re: Oops.

                            Seige[sic]

                            Sic burn man. At least it confirms you're one type of nazi..

                            (≧▽≦)

                            With digital crayons as well!

                            Looks like you're part of the "people in the know"

                            Well, maybe I found out about it on a dating site-

                            https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1340961/dl?inline

                            Or maybe I just made a mistake. I do do that sometimes, and I'll even admit it. I did wonder if that was correct but the hype wagon had been rolling for months around the 2yr anniversary, so Jan sounded plausible. But in other news, seems like Nuland is no more and can devote all her attention to being a Hutt cosplayer at assorted Cons. I do hope she writes a book, especially if she was forced to resign. So that may explain why she, nor any US reps attended the official 2yr party. But she's being replaced by another Cheney/Haliburton protege, this chap-

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bass

                            who's previous claim to fame was organising the US's evacuation of Afghanistan..

              4. Casca Silver badge

                Re: ... again

                You are the formost ignoring of history. Or have you only read the russian one?

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  @Casca - Re: ... again

                  Of course you can debunk all this fake information and I encourage you to do just that. Give us the arguments to prove him wrong, you have a chance of doing just that.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: @Casca - ... again

                    Hello Jellied Eel. Split personality?

                    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                      Re: @Casca - ... again

                      Hello Jellied Eel. Split personality?

                      Not me guv. Yet you seem convinced I post as AC, even though I do not. As usual, you see conspiracy theories everywhere, and lack evidence to support what loosely passes as your 'arguments'..

            3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: ... again

              > "Nazis" like Zelenskyy. Nevermind that he's Jewish!

              See his cunning they are !

            4. Necrohamster Silver badge

              Re: ... again

              The sooner The Register implements an ignore function on these forums, the better.

              That's not aimed at you DS999, but the troll you're replying to. ;)

              1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: ... again

                The sooner The Register implements an ignore function on these forums, the better.

                Or just remove the AC option. Fun thing about that is it does have potential for tracking anonymongs, ie posting anonymously from a registered account still gives the registered account the votes. One AC conspiracy theorist doesn't seem to grasp this concept..

              2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                Re: ... again

                The sooner The Register implements an ignore function on these forums, the better.

                Necrohamster,

                There's been an ignore function on these forums for a decade.

                Next to every username you should see a little grey stripey circle with an angry face (between the name and the badge).

                Click on that and it takes you to your ignore list, and allows you to ignore that user.

                1. Necrohamster Silver badge

                  Re: ... again

                  Next to every username you should see a little grey stripey circle with an angry face (between the name and the badge).

                  Must be a gold-badge option. I don't have it.

                  Believe me, I've looked.

      2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Yes, the "misinformation" confirmed as authentic by the German government..

        But it could still be misinformation. Maybe the Russians were meant to have heard that conversation, and thinking they have 6 months to counter Taurus. Maybe it's intended to draw GBAD away from other targets to protect the bridge, which might not be the target. Maybe Taurus and F-16s have already been integrated, and they'll be seen soon. Misdirection has long been used in warfare, but it has to appear believable to work.

      3. jmch Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Totally mixing up 2 seperate issues....

        Yes, referring to German military as Nazis is a slur, and it's obvious propaganda from a Russian point of view - unite the locals through a perceived outside attack.

        Re misinformation.... I agree that, as confirmed by German government, the call is authentic, however they also expressed reservations as to whether the call was completely unmodified. 45+ minutes is plenty of material to AI-sample the participants' voices and get them to add a few select words here and there that can change the meaning of the conversation. Also plenty of material to selectively edit. So whether it is "misinformation" depends on a number of contextual factors. And of course the Russians are only going to leak anything that makes the Germans look bad and can be used to paint themselves as innocent victims.

        None of this changes the big picture - it's the Russians who are the aggressors, invading a neighbouring state on the pretext of protecting their fellow countrymen minority in a small region of that country. If you want to talk Nazis, that's textbook Hitler-invading-western-Czechoslovakia tactics right there.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @jmch - Re: Huh?

          Yes but Czechoslovak army has not bombed German-speaking population. Hitler's actions were totally unprovoked.

          And speaking about minorities, how about the war under the pretext to protect the Albanian minority in Serbia followed by carving a historical territory of a sovereign country, all this done by NATO ? Wasn't that an invasion conducted by Western, "civilized" countries when German Bundeswehr put aside its convictions and went to war outside its national territory ?

          Now that Russia is doing exactly the same thing, you're telling me it's bad behaviour ?

          Please note that although down voting my post will make you feel good, it not alter history.

        2. Necrohamster Silver badge

          Re: Huh?

          Yes, referring to German military as Nazis is a slur, and it's obvious propaganda from a Russian point of view - unite the locals through a perceived outside attack.

          The word is a dog-whistle, nothing more.

          Russia's supporters use it to describe anybody who opposes a return to the Soviet "glory" days.

          Remember that they weren't ideologically opposed to becoming friends with actual Nazis back before "The Great Patriotic War" (1941-1945 *cough* *cough*) when they signed to Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

          https://jordanrussiacenter.org/news/what-russians-think-when-they-hear-the-word-nazi/

          "Claiming that a country whose head of state is a Jew with relatives who died in the Holocaust is “neo-Nazi” is absurd. Yet for many Russians, this claim could sound credible, because “Nazism” and the more commonly used “fascism” carry a different set of associations than for most people in Western Europe and North America. In addition, Soviet and Russian understandings of fascism and Nazism’s essence have made it easy to use the terms to describe contemporary enemies in Russia."

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: Huh?

            The word is a dog-whistle, nothing more.

            Yet it's one that gets used far too frequently.

            Russia's supporters use it to describe anybody who opposes a return to the Soviet "glory" days.

            Ukraine's supporters use it to describe anyone that doesn't support Ukraine. Putin is a nazi. I'm a nazi. All news to me, and probably most Russians. It was also news to Turdeau and the Canadian parliament when they, along with Zelensky gave a standing ovation to an actual WW2 SS volunteer.

            Claiming that a country whose head of state is a Jew with relatives who died in the Holocaust is “neo-Nazi” is absurd.

            Nope, just part of the clusterfunk that is Ukraine. Zelensky cheers on people waving OUN flags flown over attrocities like the Volyhn Massacre. Or praises the Azov Special Needs unit that still sports the 2nd SS Panzer Division's insignia, along with a black sun designed for the SS. And there are people from Ukraine's 'Right Sector', like this nice chap-

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok

            He also praised the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists for having fought "Moscovites, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state"

            But that can also be the difference between nazis, and neo-nazis who share the same twisted ideologies. But anti-semitism is pretty rife in Ukraine, it's just Zelensky has limited options to deal with it given the neo-nazis have repeatedly threatened to either kill or coup him.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Huh?

              Isn't "pogrom" a Russian word?

              > A pogrom[a] is a violent riot incited with the aim of massacring or expelling an ethnic or religious group, particularly Jews. The term entered the English language from Russian to describe 19th- and 20th-century attacks on Jews in the Russian Empire

              We can only congratulate Russians to acknowledge their heavy antisemitic past.

            2. Necrohamster Silver badge

              Re: Huh?

              Jellied Eel, have you ever watched the TV show "What We Do In The Shadows"?

              1. Necrohamster Silver badge

                Re: Huh?

                There's a character in the show - Colin Robinson - who I imagine is based on you:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_brpPpjZ5I

                "When they call you a dumbass, you know you've got them"...your tactics are identical. :)

        3. Grinning Bandicoot

          Re: Huh?

          In the 1920s the US Army had War Plan Red. A study of the invasion of the British Isles. An emergency is when an event happens and the reaction must be prompt, decisive, and correct. On this basis in retrospect Chamberlain was correct at Munich in buying time and the US Army figured its invasion of the Isles all wrong. Disaster planning is supposed to cover as many possibilities without regard to probability but then we would not have this Friday forum if done. So the Germans conversation could be nothing more than a late night in a strange hotel room musing.

    3. Casca Silver badge

      Re: Huh?

      Oh, its war crimes now?

      Go away russian mouth piece...

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Oh, its war crimes now?

        Yep. They talk about the Kerch bridge not being a significant military target, it's a civil structure, and yet Urkaine seems obsessed with blowing it up. Possibly because they've still got a bunch of stamps left over. Russia can just go back to using ferries, the road land bridge and is busily putting in new rail links.

        But it's also why I wonder if it's deliberate disinformation. The plan talks about needing a minimum of 20x Taurus to destroy the bridge. Urkaine only has 9 Su-25's left, and I'm assuming they could only carry 2x Taurus each. It has a range of around 500km, and will have to fly a circuitous route to avoid Russian GBAD. Russia can use range and probable routes to reconfigure it's GBAD, and also guesstimate where missiles would have to be launched from. To get max range, missiles would have to be launched from high altitude, and S-300, 400 and maybe now S-500 say 'Hi!'.

        So does it really make sense for Urkaine to risk pretty much it's entire ground attack capability to a pretty pointless and mostly symbolic attack on a civilian structure?

        But also don't forget Nuland was recently in Urkaine and telling Russia to "Get ready for a suprise!", and a nasty one. I suspect she's not referring to her launching an OnlyFans site, but some cunning plan that hasn't materialised, yet. Then again, the US was conspicious by the absence for the 2yr anniversary, so maybe they're getting bored with the whole misadventure and ready to pull the plug. So many more countries to destabilise after all.

        1. Casca Silver badge

          Re: Huh?

          Are you paid by amount of word spewed? It sure seams like it.

        2. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Huh?

          "They talk about the Kerch bridge not being a significant military target, it's a civil structure..."

          Except that it's the only overland connection between Russia and Crimea and allows Russian supplies to flow freely to the southern part of the front line without coming in range of Ukrainian weapons along the Northern part of the front line. As such it is a significant military target....

          "... and yet Urkaine seems obsessed with blowing it up"

          ...and besides being a significant military target, the reason Ukraine are obsessed with blowing it up is that it is also a significant political / symbolic target. Putin made it a point to build the bridge ASAP as soon as he annexed Crimea, so blowing it up is a poke in the eye for the Kremlin. Besides that, it is the only connection between Crimea and mainland Russia that is not part of the internationally-recognised territory of Ukraine.

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: Huh?

            Except that it's the only overland connection between Russia and Crimea and allows Russian supplies to flow freely to the southern part of the front line without coming in range of Ukrainian weapons along the Northern part of the front line. As such it is a significant military target....

            Except for that whole 'land bridge' thing, which allows both Crimea and the southern part of the front to be supplied by road or rail, without relying on the bridge. Also look at a map. Much of the land bridge supply routes are well outside the range of most Ukrainian weapon systems already, and being land based, quick to repair.

            ...and besides being a significant military target, the reason Ukraine are obsessed with blowing it up is that it is also a significant political / symbolic target.

            Whoopee. But perhaps the problem with allowing comedians to define strategy. With limited resources, surely it would be better to apply those to more strategic targets like ammo or general logistics depots, command centres etc? Plus there's the blowback from attacking mostly symbolic or civilian targets. Every time Ukraine's hit the bridge before, there have been calls from the Russian population to take the gloves off and hit Ukraine harder.. Which Russia has done, ie responding with large drone and missile strikes.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Huh?

              Looks like hitting that bridge is the right thing to do. Vatnik doesn't seem to like it: claims it's pointless (hehe) and that there are other more valuable targets to do (which are regularly blown up too).

    4. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

      Re: Huh?

      "And yet it's been confirmed, at least in part."

      Yes, that's what I assumed they meant by the word "hybrid": mixing genuine information with disinformation.

    5. This post has been deleted by its author

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Huh?

      Foreign boots on the ground, whilst sounding outrageous, is perfectly legitimate - it's how you ensure the Ukrainians don't use the longer range western weapons on Russian soil as dictated. Approval of targets is how they've got ATACMS and Storm Shadow/SCALP in the first place.

      As for Ukraine not having much in the way of 'A', there are those F-16s donated by European countries.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Foreign boots on the ground, whilst sounding outrageous, is perfectly legitimate - it's how you ensure the Ukrainians don't use the longer range western weapons on Russian soil as dictated. Approval of targets is how they've got ATACMS and Storm Shadow/SCALP in the first place.

        It depends what they're doing, and how they're doing it. If they're 'volunteers', serving in the UAF then it's fine. If they're in foreign uniforms assisting the UAF, then they could be considered parties to the conflict and legitimate targets. Then given we've chosen to make them targets, NATO's Article 5 won't apply as we've intervened. Or we could try getting a UN resolution as we've done before to do things like no-fly zones or installing peacekeepers. It gets legally murky though, eg if we send troops to train Ukrainians, those Ukrainians are still valid targets. If our troops aren't uniformed, then obviously they're not given the same protections as uniformed combatants under conventions or treaties. Which we used to do extraordinary renditions, lock people up in black sites and torturing them.

        Plus there's other legal stuff, like the only flags on uniforms are supposed to be from the parties to the conflict. Yet volunteers have been frequently shown wearing US flag patches. The US isn't party to the conflict, and soldiers aren't authorised to wear those insignia. Or there was an American volunteer for Russian forces filmed planting an American flag. I rather doubt they were really claiming that territory for the US.

        As for Ukraine not having much in the way of 'A', there are those F-16s donated by European countries.

        Yep, some of which may already have been destroyed, some which may not be operational for very long given the F-16 is rather delicate.

    7. Felonmarmer

      Re: Huh?

      "And yet it's been confirmed, at least in part."

      That's the hybrid bit, mix of truth and lies. Or at maybe truth and truth no one can prove so we can say its lies.

      That's the problem with statements about spies by spies - there is no way of knowing what is true.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Two reasons to use non-military comms in my experience.

    1 - milcoms don't work well enough: UK troops in Bosnia relied heavily on Nokia analogue mobiles because the milcoms weren't reliable enough - usually due to flat or dead batteries.

    2 secure milcoms are a bit of a pain and the more senior you are the less pain you can be bothered with. Have to wait for the crypto to be keyed before you make that call? - just use an open channel and speak in "code". Have to walk over to a different part of the compound to send that secure message? - too much effort, use a mobile phone. Have to log in to your MoD PC to join a secure video call? - can't because it's got a proper secure password which I can't be arsed to learn and anyway it's not been charged for ages and I don't know where the 2FA fob is so we'll just do it on zoom and be careful what we say.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Wasn't there a more recent German politician who 'encrypted' his comms at Eu meetings by speaking to his colleagues in a Bavarian(?) accent

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        In WW2 US Marines used native Navajo speakers, who further obfuscated their comms by using a code. This, as far as anyone knows, was unbroken and made secret communications much quicker than the usual methods.

        1. EvilDrSmith Silver badge

          Didn't the British Army (well, presumably a Welsh regiment thereof) do that in Bosnia (only speaking Welsh)?

    2. FirstTangoInParis Bronze badge

      Exactly why UK gov routinely chats via WhatsApp instead of the more obvious and accredited Teams chat. Though they might want an off-the-record conversation…. That’s been blown apart by the Covid inquiry and the magically disappeared WhatsApp threads.

    3. John Riddoch

      Ah, yes - the Bowman system, aka "Better Off With Map And Nokia" as it was penned by the troops forced to use it...

    4. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. abend0c4 Silver badge

      Allegedly, the issue is that someone "dialled-in from Singapore on an insecure line" - presumably just calling in via a phone line. I would hope there was an option in WebEx to prevent people joining meetings over unencrypted communications links.

      1. Mark 65

        There probably is but, as we know from the corporate world, if you're high enough ranking then such trifling inconveniences can be ordered to be dispensed with.

  5. t245t Silver badge
    Big Brother

    The SIPRNet protocols were not ignored

    @Mike 137: “the SIPRNet protocols were ignored when Chelsea Manning was exfiltrating the Wiki Leaks files.

    Manning burned the files to a DVD on a SIPRNet terminal.

  6. Mister Jones

    Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

    The Americans were listening in to Angela Merkel's phone.

    The British were listening in to Belgian telecoms (targets unknown).

    The NSA is istening in to almost any voice communication in the USA (and maybe elsewhere too).

    Oh......and then there's a long tradition of Fort Meade "influencing" the design of Cisco equipment.

    So why is anyone surprised when we learn that the Russians have figured out some of the Fort Meade "enhancements" to Cisco products?

    ....and not just WebEx!!!!

    Quote (William Burroughs): "The paranoid is a person who knows a little of what is going on."

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

      >The British were listening in to Belgian telecoms

      That's not true.

      Firstly who would bother listening in on Belgians?

      What they did was hack a Belgian manufacturer of smart cards so they could listen in on everyone else.

      They did hack EU commissioners during trade negotiations but since we were in the EU at the time, and the chap was German, that's probably OK.

      1. jmch Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

        "who would bother listening in on Belgians?"

        That brought a laugh!!!

        But on a more serious note, lots of important EU institutions in Brussels

        1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

          Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

          No point listening to Belgians - all waffle.

          1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

            Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

            Take my upvote and get out.

      2. Sir Lancelot

        Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

        It is very true: https://theintercept.com/2014/12/13/belgacom-hack-gchq-inside-story/

        1. jmch Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

          Very interesting, I had heard of it but had no idea it went so deep. Very interesting that Belgacom top brass did not allow their security consultants to investigate the hacked Cisco routers and instead left that to Cisco themselves - that strongly indicates a Cisco-installed or Cisco-approved backdoor, with Belgacom board or C-level leaned on politically at a very high level to avoid that going public.

      3. t245t Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

        >> The British were listening in to Belgian telecoms

        > That's not true.

        How U.K. Spies hacked a European ally and got away with it

        “It was the summer of 2013, and European investigators were looking into an unprecedented breach of Belgium’s telecommunications infrastructure .. The British spies hacked into Belgacom employees’ computers and then penetrated the company’s internal systems”

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

          Yes my point, they were not hacking Belgians to listen to Belgians. They were hacking Belgians to listen to everyone else.

    2. Spazturtle Silver badge

      Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

      "So why is anyone surprised when we learn that the Russians have figured out some of the Fort Meade "enhancements" to Cisco products?"

      The Russians didn't hack in or intercept anything, the meeting was left open and a Russian agent simply joined it and left his camera off.

    3. Binraider Silver badge

      Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

      Listening is one of the best ways to develop understanding. If we all listened to each other maybe we wouldn't have this damned war, or any other for that matter, on our doorstep over some arbitrary lines on a map.

      1. Grinning Bandicoot

        Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

        Your comment about listens precludes the observation that the 'bully boys' are on the rise without any regard to ideology. The nazis as the most preeminent and best known built a cult and systematically applied the symbolism to attract those without a strong (or maybe even a weak) internal code. It was structured in such way that once infected made a new lackey willing to go one step further. Today's lost ones see the symbols and the 'apparent' purpose that these symbols provide and goose step down the line. The Czar though not seeing the symbols, however, sees ethnic protection (Sudetenland for comparison with the Dombass). Yet if following past Russian performance the react rather than being low keyed would have been that of tank, APC and assault troops. This has the same historic background as the Cosacks sent to put down any state threat. That 'bully boys' are on the rise look we can how Hamas was slowly being shoved into the closet by varied Middle East countries or the rise of an Israeli party that wanted its own private militia so the present abattoir. Modi in India is basically playing the extremes. Again 'Bully Boyism' is on a growth curve because there a some without internal strength that need something to provide needed cojunes and as a consequence are unable to listen.

    4. Necrohamster Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

      Dont forget Crypto AG

      The BND and CIA teamed up (with the knowledge of the UK and Sweden) to buy a Swiss company that sold encryption terminals to governments around the world. They backdoored the machines, naturally.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

        You trusted the Swiss? You deserve everything you get

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

          I trust their chocolate.

          Would you trust Hershey for a mouth full of pleasure?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Paranoia Is Mandatory In 2024!!

          Only with my gold

  7. ecofeco Silver badge

    Mistake?

    Or deliberate?

    Hmmmm...

    1. HuBo
      Holmes

      Re: Mistake?

      A well-designed PsyOp IMHO. We're making serious military action plans to put that Rusky war bear back into its hibernation tree log to be sure, but are doing so using secure comms (not WebEx). The leaky WebEx stuff is meant to rattle its cage and test public opinion IMHO (multi-laterally).

      My opinion? Let's roll!

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Mistake?

        You have to wonder if the entire German military is some long-game plot to convince the world of their harmless bumbling ineptitude and so hide their ruthless Teutonic plans.

        Rather like the post-war British secret service.

        1. Wellyboot Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Mistake?

          I have a sneaking belief that the NATO plan to reinforce Poland in any future war would seem very familiar to anyone who has seen previous work by Erich von Manstein!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Mistake?

        > .. We're making serious military action plans to put that Rusky war bear back into its hibernation tree log to be sur ..

        What's this “we” business?

        Is that Tony ‘ we're under imminent danger of attack’ Blair.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Mistake?

          "What's this “we” business?"

          Wouldn't *YOU* like to know ....

    2. naive

      Re: Mistake?

      It could indeed be a brave act of resistance against the elites pushing Europe into the abyss.

      Anyone with an IQ exceeding 70 knows in a scenario where USA/NATO/EU/WEF servants manage to start a war with Russia, 100 million or more Europeans will die.

      Based on the geography, Germans might be a sizable part of those casualties.

      Maybe it was the intention of the generals to warn Russia about the plans, trying to prevent escalation and destruction of Europe and make clear that German army is not their true enemy, but US and English are.

      Since a second Trump presidency seems inevitable, pressure is on for the war mongering elites to start a war with Russia before January 2025.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Re: Mistake?

        Anyone with an IQ exceeding 70 knows in a scenario where USA/NATO/EU/WEF servants manage to start a war with Russia

        Presumably only people with an IQ below 70 believe in anything that talks about "WEF servants" - whatever the fuck they are. The World Economic Forum might have some important people at it, but it's still a networking event, with truly execllent catering, not an evil illuminati-style global ruling committee. As for the EU / WEF starting wars, as Stalin said of the Pope, 'how many divisions do they have?'. The answer being, at least for the Pope... Nun.

        Actually, I know people who went to Catholic schools back in the day, and an army of nuns would probably be a terrifying, unstoppable force. You'd have to nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another party might have joined the conversation.

    Isn't there another party who would profit from getting WebEx out of german clients?

    That has remote code execution on all customers PCs by default and pushes KB-number named packages to all of them all the time unsupervised?

    That offers its own corporate-videoconference-thingy?

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Another party might have joined the conversation.

      I find it difficult to assign that much competence to the firm in question.

  9. ChoHag Silver badge

    <Russia> Please take your important conversations somewhere private. We can hear you.

    Do they ever stop shooting themselves in the foot?

  10. Claverhouse Silver badge
    Happy

    Fast Response

    Asked about developments in the investigation, the Bundeswehr told The Register it had nothing further to add, but pointed to defense minister Boris Pistorius's comments.

    Unlike, say, Apple...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good news

    because the side-effect of this shitstorm is that they'll do something about. Hopefully.

    btw, webex is a PREFERRED choice for most EU (and NATO?) officials, just sayin...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Disgusting

    The blatant double standards and hypocrisy in this rag has become suffocating.

    Do they also always remember to list the occupation of West Bank as illegal??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Disgusting

      Actually it's not illegal, as in both instances Israel was attacked first. You could say it's disproportional, but the the US destroyed Afghanistan and Iraq for less...

  13. This post has been deleted by its author

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Paranoia Is One Thing......But Then Again......

    ....EVERYTHING ON THE INTERWEB is true!!!!!

    (1) Yup......the Russians ACCIDENTALLY lucked into a NATO WebEx

    (2) Yup......there's a mole in NATO somewhere......the Russian intercept was not luck

    (3) Yup......the transcript published by the Russians is 100% accurate

    (4) Yup......the transcript published by the Russians is a deep fake.....to stir up something in NATO

    (5) Yup......the transcript published by the Russians is a deep fake.....to stir up something within Russia

    Oh.....and each one of the above is ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!!!

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Coulda been old school spying - put a bug in his hotel room before he arrived and hit the jackpot. If it was that kind of a one-off, that would explain Russia cashing in so quickly - no secret connection to lose. There are surely a massive number of CCCP spies in Singapore.

    1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Stop

      The CCCP hasn't existed for over 30 years, they must have been there a loooong time.

      1. MiguelC Silver badge
        Coat

        Maybe they're like that Japanese soldier stranded on a Pacific island, defending his position while ignoring that WW2 had ended for 30+ years

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just say it's fake and move on...

    ...I don't get why they want to provide credibility to the RT story.

    Unless it was deliberately leaked by the German gov, in which case... sure, use your Pikachu face and call for enquiries...

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm somewhat worried by the use of the terms "military grade". At least it didn't mention "military grade encryption", but I find it uncomfortably close.

  18. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Pirate

    So amateur you can't help but wonder

    if it wasn't deliberate.

    A good strategy in war (and that's what is going on here) is to feed your opponents view of you.

    Which does, of course, work both ways ....

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Really Cisco?

    Cisco distances itself from the issue and tells people to talk to the victims?

    How would the users of Webex know whether their calls are interceptable?

    Sure, the people setting up the call could have let someone in or recorded the call, but I would prefer to hear from Cisco whether their product is secure rather than the "look over there" response.

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