back to article They call me 'Growler'. I don't like you. Let's discuss your pay cut

Welcome once more, dear reader, to On Call, The Register's reader-contributed tales of delivering tech support amidst feuds, foolishness, and folly. This week, meet a reader we'll Regomize as "Corey" who told us of his experience during the dotcom boom of the late 1990s and very early 2000s. Corey contracted at a multi-bank …

  1. Fabrizio
    Mushroom

    Don't we all have an ex-boss we never want to meet again?

    Same time frame, not a .com company, a sales guy who ended up as the GM and my direct boss.

    He tried to reach me through people we both knew and the answer always was: There is a reason why I blocked him everywhere!

    So far so good!

    1. Sam not the Viking Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Don't we all have an ex-boss we never want to meet again?

      I have never forgotten advice imparted to me during my training:

      "There are people you never want to meet again but you always need to know where they are."

      Wise words ---->

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Don't we all have an ex-boss we never want to meet again?

      Mine is the one who founded a small company. We supposedly had a patent that locked all competition out, but those of us with technical chops knew our product didn't use it despite said boss telling the world it did. We got to the whopping size around 2002 of 10 people with ~$6M/year revenue, and a big company we worked closely with offered $16M to buy us as they realized they could not trust the guy, but they needed our product. And they wanted to close the deal in 2 weeks. I owned vested options representing a 5% equity stake, the COO 10%, and the remaining employees maybe 10% combined. Said boss was such a small-minded crook* & idiot he stretched out the negotiations for four months over trivia like who would pay the final phone bill (I am not kidding). During that time, the big company's tech folks figured out our patent wasn't used in our products, so they withdrew the offer and extended an $8M offer. Said boss said, "No way". All of our customers hated said boss, but one day, about a month later, he overheard the COO talking with one of us about walking out and starting a rival company, as the customers would follow us. So said boss runs back to the big company and asks if the offer is still good. They smelled blood, so they said "yes" at $4M. He takes that offer, having "negotiated" the sale of the company down from $16M to $4M in less than six months. (Great businessman, eh?) But it gets better. He then tries to do what is called (according to my business lawyer) a "dirty departure" by not honoring the option agreements. As you can imagine, lawyers and such get involved (with "suggestions" of going to the State Attorney General), and we got our pound of flesh (reduced by 4x due to his price negotiation skills of that $16M offer going to $4M.).

      What a gem of a guy. That saga ended over 20 years ago and I'm still hoping that if I ever hear of the guy again, it's because he's been convicted of something & going to jail.

      *He had a lot of shady personal side businesses that he wasn't good at hiding . The Feds threatened to raid the company at one point as part of their dealings with him.

    3. Andy the ex-Brit

      Re: Don't we all have an ex-boss we never want to meet again?

      I had one absolutely terrible boss. I never realized until reporting to him that me and the rest of my high functioning team were actually slackers who were lucky he didn't fire us. He eventually got shunted off somewhere else and things got better.

      Another reorg, and I heard they he'd applied to supervise the group that most of us would be moved into. I went to the manager and said "if he's my boss again, he won't be my boss for more than an hour." I was completely prepared to walk. Luckily he didn't get it, and actually got laid off shortly after. Good riddance!

  2. excperr

    Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Growler

    1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

      Agree. Might as well call yourself the Mingemeister.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        Only if you definitely have a girlfriend but no one would ever know who she is because she goes to a different school.

      2. Falmari Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        Not quite definition he most likely meant.

        I read it as "But everyone calls me Growler" and the second half of the sentence is left unsaid. Because it's not needed, it's obvious what he meant. "Oh because you're a rhymes with hunt".

        "But everyone calls me Growler, because I'm a rhymes with hunt". Is obviously what he meant, well to me it's obvious. :)

        1. C R Mudgeon Bronze badge

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          "But everyone calls me Growler, because I'm a rhymes with hunt"

          "... and I'm proud of being one!"

          A more competent RWH wouldn't warn you of the fact in advance.

        2. TimMaher Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          Is he now the chancellor?

      3. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        That sounds like the sort of nickname one of our predatory salesmen would give himself.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

      Here in the US, a growler is a reusable, reclosable jug used to transport beer from a brewpub's taps for off-site consumption of keg beer. The price of purchasing beer this way is usually much lower than buying the equivalent in cans or bottles, but the brew should be consumed within 24 hours (or so) for what should be obvious reasons. They are often half a gallon (64 US oz), but both smaller and larger growlers exist, depending on brewery and jurisdiction. Most good brewpubs will fill a growler purchased from, and branded by, another brewpub.

      1. Caver_Dave Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        Used to collect 'cider' from the Scrumpy Farms on the Mendips (SW England) in empty 2 litre vinegar containers.

        It had two limitations on use:

        It would only travel as far as the nearest caving cottage

        It would only last one evening

        I never drank it myself, but watching the effect on others was very amusing, until I had to take them to A&E!

        1. Mooseman Silver badge

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          "Used to collect 'cider' from the Scrumpy Farms on the Mendips (SW England) in empty 2 litre vinegar containers."

          We reused orange squash concentrate 4 litre plastic containers to take the local scrumpy to parties. I gave up drinking the stuff after one such event when I discovered the bottom of the quite thick plastic container had been dissolved by the cider overnight.

          1. mikecoppicegreen

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Similarly - I forswore the rough scrumpy in the student union bar, as the floor tiles around the pump were bleached beyond recognition.

            1. Scott 26

              Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

              I used to deliberately mispronounce 'Scrumpy' as "Scumble'... it's made from apples, well, mostly apples.

              1. collinsl Bronze badge

                Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                You mean this scumble: https://wiki.lspace.org/Scumble?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            There was an account going the rounds in my student days (back in 19-frozen-to-death) that farmhouse scrumpy had real body. The story went that, in earlier times, skeletons of vermin could be found at the bottom of fermenting tanks; to keep the local recipe going once better preparation and hygiene practices came along, farmers would throw a leg of mutton in their vats. The meat would slowly dissolve and, as I understand it, the amino acids released feed the yeast for a stronger brew.

            As far as I'm aware, the practice was/is not common nowadays...

            1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

              This is for a good friend of mine.......who used to rebuild cider presses.

              There wuz a man from Zummerzet

              Who sometimes repairs Cider press

              'e said it's sediment in the vat

              When asked why the Scrumpy was cloudy

              Wus usually drowned & then dissolved rat.

            2. jake Silver badge

              Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

              I've made Cock Ale, it's actually drinkable ... Translating the recipe into more modern terms: First you brew a strong ale (your choice), to make ten gallons. Next, boil a cock (old rooster works well for this!). Bust the boiled bird up with a mortar and pestle (food processor), bones & all. Stick the result into a fine cheesecloth bag with some mace (I use three or four flakes) and cloves (I use 8), and some mashed dates and raisins, about 8oz each. Soak the lot in a couple quarts of fortified wine (I use a young (cheap) version of Oloroso), until the ale is ready to come out of the primary. Discard the bird+spice bag, and decant the fortified wine into the secondary with the ale, discarding the sediment. Allow to sit and clarify for a couple weeks/month(s) before bottling. It's ready to drink after 6 or 8 months in the botttle at cellar temperature (42F (5.5C), plus or minus).

              The added sugar from the raisins & dates makes for a bit more fermentation in the secondary. The gelatin from the bird seems to work as finings to clarify the brew. You can't taste the chicken in the final product, but the head is affected (more protein) (the head is minimal, but there). You can leave out the mace and clove (recommended, except for history's sake).

              Frankly, while the end result is usually quite drinkable, I don't find it to be worth the effort ... I make it once in a while (nine times in 35 years) just to blow people's minds.

              [edit] Do not add salt & pepper, veggies, etc. to the boiled rooster. Make soup with the stock from boiling the bird.

              1. BenDwire Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                How on earth did this recipe come to be 'developed'? I can't fathom the thought process of anyone thinking that a freshly run over cock would improve the taste of beer* !

                * Leaving out the obvious cheep shot about (internationally available) American 'beers'

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                  "How on earth did this recipe come to be 'developed'? I can't fathom the thought process of anyone thinking that a freshly run over cock would improve the taste of beer* !"

                  Kitchen accident. Someone boiled a bunch of chicken parts wrapped in cheesecloth (for ease of removal) to make a stock. Stick the bag into a handy bucket to be disposed of later, not knowing it was a freshly sanitized bucked for beer. The household brewer decants a freshly brewed ale out of the primary onto the top of the bag, and then stashes the secondary away in the cellar for aging. Naturally, the kid who dropped the bag wouldn't have said anything, so the bag of bird parts wouldn't have come to light until the ale was ready to be either bottled or imbibed. In our modern society, once discovered they would have tossed the lot ... but back then, nothing was wasted. It still smelled OK, so they drank it ... and probably marveled at the mouthfeel and the clarity of the stuff. The cloves & raisins etc. were added later, probably by charlatans selling it as "medicine".

                  "* Leaving out the obvious cheep shot about (internationally available) American 'beers'"

                  British beers, you mean. The recipe originated in England, and was a crowd favorite by the late 1500s. America didn't exist back then. William III is said to have preferred Cock Ale over the finest French wines, and wouldn't drink any other beer... which probably says a lot about the state of the British brewing industry in the late 1600s. (Of course the British and French were at loggerheads back then, so claiming not to like French wine may have been political.)

          3. HMcG

            Scrumpy Farms

            I'm pretty sure that stuff was the inspiration for the scene in 'Alien' with the xenomorph blood...

        2. Alien Doctor 1.1

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          Caver Dave, I guess you know the pubs in Priddy and the BEC belfry then?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Last time I was in Priddy, one of the pubs was shut.... I've always wondered how a small village like that could sustain two pubs, especially since a lot of the cavers seemed to prefer the Hunter's Inn. Has anyone fallen through the floor of the changing room by Priddy green yet?

        3. Ian Mason

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          > I never drank it myself, but watching the effect on others was very amusing, until I had to take them to A&E!

          Why A&E? Oh lordy, they weren't stupid enough to spill any in their laps were they?

          1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Friend of my fathers spent a hot summers afternoon & evening drinking farm cider sold under the counter at our local pub.

            When he finally decided he'd had enough....he left the bar & watched by all the regulars as he to paraphrase Douglas Adams weaved his way through a completely empty car park.

            Made it across the main road, which at evenings & weekends was usually quiet.... got 50 yards up the road directly opposite the pub & clung onto a lamp post for dear life.

            Where he spontaneously lost bowel control, in the way that only rough scrumpy can manage.

            Then walked drunkenly home in a rather amusing way to the onlookers watching the show.

        4. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          I knew a Polish girl who drank it for breakfast.

      2. Aladdin Sane
        Pint

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        64 US oz is a smidge over 3.3 UK pints. So that's lunch sorted.

        My dad was in the USA with the RN in the 70s, and said the matelots were delighted to find that Americans served beer in jugs, so they got a jug each.

        1. Bebu Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          《Americans served beer in jugs, so they got a jug each.》

          They also serve beer in jugs in AU but the jug is shared otherwise the beer would become too warm to drink which probably wouldn't bother les matelots anglais.

          Don't they have small aluminium kegs (10kg) in tge US and UK?

          I recall reading about scrumpy in the early '80s and it seemed to barely avoid breaking the chemical weapons conventions. The basic idea appears to be take a large quantity of very strong, unpleasantly rough and otherwise undrinkable alcoholic cider, and then adulterate that with unmentionable, normally undisclosed, additions.

          Hydrofluoric acid sounded a better choice of tipple. :)

          1. Dabooka

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            They do have mini kegs but I personally find them gimmicky and difficult to get a decent pint out of without some being wasted or the latter pints being a bit too flat. Watney Party Sevens were notoriously worse

            For cask ales and ciders from the breweries they can be great. I often get them for gatherings at my house when we'll be on an ale and it doesn't matter anywhere near as much

          2. Roger Kynaston
            Pint

            scrumpy memories

            Back in the late eighties I drove a taxi in Taunton. There were a couple of 'cider' pubs near the market where the farmers would drink the profits. One was notorious as it would refuse to serve its cider to what they termed foreigners. The other gained some notoreity when another driver came on the radio to tell us that the wall spearating the lounge from the bar wasn't there any more because someone had been thrown through it.

            Happy days even if said anecdote has nothing to do with the original story!

            Obvious icon and I will be having my last Red Strip of this visit to the In Laws in a few hours while waiting at NMIA.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: scrumpy memories

              I knew of several hardened beer drinkers taken by surprise when trying scrumpy. One (a flat-mate for a while) could walk home after a dozen pints of beer or lager; one evening he tried a local scrumpy and fell down after a pint. Mind you, his system was well attuned to abuse: On one occasion he swallowed two dozen sleeping tablets. I found him looking a little under the weather; on finding the empty pill bottle, and knowing he's just had a prescription filled, I called for an ambulance. The it took me about 10 minutes to convince the paramedic that he's taken them, but they eventually took him away; they pumped the remains of two dozen tablets from his stomach. His system may have become well tuned to abuse but real scrumpy is not something to trifle with!

          3. TekGuruNull

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            We indeed do have the mini aluminum kegs. They tend to be pricey on a per pint basis. But some craft* & European brands do deliver a superior pub-like brew this way. Very inconsistent across brands. Sorry to disappoint, but the offerings do not include Watneys Red Barrell or cider-barrel-dregs skullsplitter/industrial floor cleaner.

            *not water

          4. jake Silver badge

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            The store-bought so-called "mini kegs" are a waste of money, IMO.

            Cornelius kegs, on the other hand, are quite handy to keep around, especially for the home brewer.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_keg

          5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            "They also serve beer in jugs in AU but the jug is shared otherwise the beer would become too warm to drink which probably wouldn't bother les matelots anglais."

            A jug of beer in front of a matelot wouldn't have time to get warm, even in Oz!

        2. ShortLegs

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          "My dad was in the USA with the RN in the 70s, and said the matelots were delighted to find that Americans served beer in jugs, so they got a jug each."

          Medicine Hat, BATUS, mod-80s. Sat in a pub with a "pitcher" of Budweiser each. After about the third pitcher, mate gets up for a wazz.

          "Cant he handle his drink" slurs our inebriated US Army host.

          "you try drinking 9 pints of water without needing a piss" retorts the still sober Brit sappers....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Sounds like a similar story an ex-army (UK) tells. His version is to drink the yanks under the table and then start on the proper stuff!

          2. Aladdin Sane

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            My dad was drinking in the American Legion:

            Yank: Where were you boys during Vietnam?

            Dad: I thought the Vietcong were doing fine without us.

          3. spacecadet66 Bronze badge

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Gonna be that guy who points out that American beer has improved vastly since certain changes in the tax laws in the 1990s made craft brewing economical again. The amnesty does not extend as far as Budweiser though so please feel free to say what you like there.

            1. jake Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

              The cheap American Lagers are really a tribute to modern industrial manufacturing capability. When consumed young and unmolested, and properly stored, they have no off-flavo(u)rs, and taste the same all over the world, regardless of which plant they were made in. They also aren't exactly water, even Bud Light is 4.2% (Bud is 5%).

              Trying to re-create such a thing at home is a serious test of a home-brewer's skill. Don't believe me? Try it. Water, barley, rice, yeast & hops ... how hard can it be?

              With that said, give me a real ale any day of the week.

              Why is ElReg's "beer" icon clearly a glass of Bud?

              1. VicMortimer Silver badge

                Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                Buttwiper IS an off flavor. Why would I bother trying to recreate that piss?

                If I'm going to bother brewing, I'm brewing an ale.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                  How to tell us you've never even tried it without telling us you've never even tried it.

                  Seriously, dude, it's just a German-style lager. Try it once, you might be surprised.

                  Life's too short to have that kind of childish attitude about a simple beer ... Are you going to hold your breath and threaten to be sick next?

              2. TangoDelta72

                Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                "Water, barley, rice, yeast & hops ... how hard can it be?"

                While in college I had a neighbor who was doing his master's on yeast fermentation biochemistry (He was an excellent home-brewer as you can imagine). During one porch-sipping conversation of his latest batch, he told me about some of his research. Apparently yeast will create certain histamines in the fermentation process only with rice that is known to cause allergic-like reactions in humans.

                For years, I'd always gotten a runny and red nose any time when Budwieser was the beer on tap at a party. I didn't like that effect, so I tended to stay away from it. Since Bud is one of the brews that use rice, I finally had an answer to why it happened.

                Science: FTW.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                  "Apparently yeast will create certain histamines in the fermentation process only with rice that is known to cause allergic-like reactions in humans."

                  Oreally. Which "histamines" are those, pray tell?

                  Last time I checked, histamine is one very specific molecule, C5H9N3, or 2-(1H-Imidazol-4-yl)ethanamine, if you like ... and all beers contain between 20 and 300mg/l. Budweiser is, in fact, on the low end of this, specifically because they use rice as an adjunct to their grain bill. Quite simply, rice doesn't produce as much histamine as barley or wheat in the fermentation process.

                2. Andy A
                  FAIL

                  Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                  One thing Anheuser-Busch mention in the US but not outside is how their "beers" are filtered over activated charcoal.

                  This ensures that any possible flavo(u)r is removed.

                  1. jake Silver badge

                    Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

                    "One thing Anheuser-Busch mention in the US but not outside is how their "beers" are filtered over activated charcoal."

                    You are confused. It's Jack Danial's that filters through charcoal. They use freshly made sugar maple charcoal, not activated charcoal. Note that "filtering" in this case means "slowly dripped through", not "removes contaminants". Far from removing flavo(u)r, this a way of adding flavo(u)r (and colo(u)r) to the finished product.

                    Budweiser's advertising shtick is "beechwood aged", essentially they secondary their brew over beechwood chips that naturally trap yeast during secondary fermentation, thus clearing the beer without adding finings.

          4. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
            Black Helicopters

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Medicine Hat - Yes I've been on Suffield exercise range a few times as part of the Oil n Gas IT Team.

            Company vehicle should be a seriously lifted 4WD truck or Challenger Tank & not to mention the NSFW\Politically incorrect signage on the "target buildings".

          5. jake Silver badge

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Stories about one branch or another being able to drink the other branch under the table (or country vs. country, etc.) have been part of military lore since Sumer and Elam were at odds 4,700 years ago or thereabouts.

            They have all been lies, regardless of origin. Pure, unadulterated bravado and nothing more.

            And my dad can beat up your dad!

            1. I don't know, stop asking me.

              Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

              > Stories about one branch or another being able to drink the other branch under the table (or country vs. country, etc.) have been part of military lore since Sumer and Elam were at odds 4,700 years ago or thereabouts.

              Impossible. The table was not invented until about 200 years later.

          6. PB90210 Bronze badge

            Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

            Q why is a pint of Watney's Red Barrel like making love in a punt?

            A 'cos it's effing close to water

            (when they dropped the name it completely vanished overnight, such was its popularity)

        3. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          64 US oz is a smidge over 3.3 UK pints.

          Or 3.615 grapefruit (1floz US = 1.804 cu in), according to the Register Standards Converter

          M.

    3. mhoulden

      Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

      It's also a Yorkshire term for a pork pie. Probably best to clarify which one you mean when you say you're going to have one for lunch.

      1. seven of five

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        Depending on the waitress, the answer to "wich one" could very well be: "yes".

    4. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

      Or this

      https://class37-growlers.weebly.com/class-37-information.html

      1. 080

        Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

        Nothing like the sound of a Growler when she is going at full throttle.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

          TBH I prefer four more cylinders and a slightly higher state of tune, single heading a 15 coach sleeper out of Plymouth.

          Double headed sounds a bit better, but over too soon.

          But of the big 4 stroke Diesels CSVT wins soundtrack award.

    5. spacecadet66 Bronze badge

      Re: Depends on your definition of growler I guess.

      I'd never heard this definition of "growler", but I had heard the second one Urban Dictionary has, which works here too: a painful backup in your colon which you want to discharge ASAP into the nearest suitable facility such as a toilet or certain co-workers' desk drawers.

  3. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Corey is aware this was probably not his finest moment.

    Unfortunately it's the sort of moment you regret the day you walk into a meeting for the job/deal of your dreams, and find Growler sitting behind the desk...

    1. My-Handle

      I would posit that, irrespective of how you've treated him in the past, if Growler is sitting on the interview panel for your dream job then it's a good sign that it's not going to be your dream job after all.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Tout au contraire.

      Finding Growler at any company, in any position, during the interview process would be a handy filter in my book.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: Tout au contraire.

        Finding Growler at any company, in any position, during the interview process would be a handy filter in my book.

        AMEN! There are a couple of people I won't work with or for. And I have a very good memory for things like that.

        I still remember when a fellow contractor told the team leader that he couldn't work with me and either one of us had to leave. Initially, I had to leave, but in pretty short time they found out he was a faker and they kept him to his word (I was invited back, he was told to leave).

        1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

          Re: Tout au contraire.

          Yeah, but you don't say whether you actually went back or whether you just reminded them with a smug grin that they had already chosen... poorly.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Tout au contraire.

            You don't actually say that, especially you don't look smug. You simply tell them you're not currently free (assuming this to be the case) but if you're able to assist in the future you will. After all, it wasn't the client management that was the problem here.

      2. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Re: Tout au contraire.

        Not only during an interview process but more generally in conducting business...

        Mine was Sleaze, not Growler - a boss I had the misfortune to encounter. He'd got incredibly excited when learning that someone had more than two pairs of dress shoes, showed an unhealthy interest in explaining the dangling of his testicles, demonstrated a mind-boggling amount of incompetence, and called me (not directly but I had a well-established network) an arsehole - I might have mentioned him here before. Anyhow, one day I received a request for tender from Sleaze's business unit. And happily had it answered along the lines of «we cannot possibly offer our services on this matter.»

        The No Arsehole Rule -thank you, Robert Sutton- applies not only to staff but also to (potential) clients and business partners.

    3. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Phil O'Sophical,

      As others have said, I don't think so. Seeing Growler in the interview should tell you that this isn't in fact the job of your dreams after all.

      I've found it quite a relaxing feeling in a job interview, when you realise that you really couldn't bear to work for this person - and so the interview is pointless. I think it's still best to remain professional, because you never know if you might end up selling to them in the future.

      Also, people who you don't like still might give you lots of money. I once had a conversation with the new chief buyer at a major UK building services company. He introduced himself and said, "I'm a Marmite kind of a person." And I thought, no you aren't, some weirdos actually like Marmite. He proceeded to beat me up over price, and when I wouldn't back down wrote an official complaint to the principal that we represent / work for. Which fortunately they ignored. They continued buying from us, at the same price anyway - because they only bought when our product was specified, and so they literally had no choice. I was tempted to give him a whatever-the-opposite-of-a-discount-is, and see how he liked that. In finance it's a "premium" - but perhaps discunt could be the word?

      What is it Jayne says in 'Firefly'? "I got a discount on account of my intimidatin' manner."

      The Hero of Canton...

      Anyway we still deal with them 10 years later, they still don't get the discount they feel they deserve and everyone's happy - or at least paid.

      I guess with our Growler the idea would be to offer a guaranteed support fee as part of the sale contract in order to pay for attendance at that meeting. Which then makes it worth going to.

      I couldn't be unprofessional anyway, I'm representing another company and so playing with their money as well as ours. So I feel I've no choice but to play nice. But I don't find it worries me anyway, I'll be upset if friends are nasty to me but with people I don't know I don't take it personally - or at least I don't really care enough that it matters. Forgiving and forgetting still have to be earned though.

      1. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

        It's called Wanker Tax.

        1. OhForF' Silver badge

          When talking directly to the prospective buyer its usually "VIP rates".

      2. Tim99 Silver badge

        I was tempted to give him a whatever-the-opposite-of-a-discount-is - I had a customer who asked if it was possible to give a "negative discount" - They wanted to charge some of their customers extra for the hassle of dealing with them/getting paid (At the time Local Governments were particularly bad). I told them that all they had to do was put in a negative number into the customers table discount field; but warned them not to do it until I had rewritten the relevant reports to "hide" the field if it was zero or negative...

    4. HMcG

      Well, if everyone was to behave like that, we wouldn't have any Growlers in the first place.

      I've been in the opposite situation - had a 'Growler' for a boss, moved company, got promoted, and sat on the interview panel when, low and behold, 'Growler' walks in applying for a job. Immediately started acting like we had been best buddies previously.

      Needless to say, he didn't get the job.

  4. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

    I wouldn't trust Growler further than I could kick him. The only way I would have agreed to help in the sale of the kit was after Growler signed a contract that I would receive a hefty commission on any sale. Otherwise I would probably suggested him to go and suck a neutron star.

    Doffs hat to the late, great Douglas Adams

  5. BebopWeBop
    Devil

    Revenge

    Best served cold with a side helping of hot cash

    1. Anonymous Custard Silver badge

      Re: Revenge

      Although I find cold hard cash also quite acceptable...

      1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Revenge

        To quote\paraphrase from DNA again for the third time in this thread.

        It has been said that Vogons are not above a little bribery and corruption in the same way that the sea is not above the clouds, and this was certainly true in his case.

        When he heard the words integrity or moral rectitude he reached for his dictionary, and when he heard the chink of ready money in large quantities he reached for the rule book and threw it away.

        or the shorter...

        ROOSTA: I prefer hard cash. If you can’t scratch a window with it I don’t accept it.

  6. Throgmorton Horatio III

    Never burn your bridges

    But also never willingly reconnect with Growler types.

    I ran my own business for a while in a non-IT sector, and one customer to whom I'd offered a very favourable rate still managed to screw the price down. At the time I didn't have a lot of other work coming in and eventually became so discouraged that I wound up the company, having passed them on to another business that could do their work (at much higher rates). For some years afterward they kept trying to get in contact about some more work, and I kept managing to not be available. Had I been more commercially oriented then it might have turned out differently, but as it was I preferred to close the door and just walk away permanently.

  7. The Dogs Meevonks Silver badge

    I may have the most evil story

    I worked for a company that I left in 2004

    My immediate line manager was an utter arsehole. Incompetent, a liar, and surprisingly a male misandrist.

    He did things like lie to managers in other depts about people applying for jobs internally from his team, alter holiday forms to remove dates and encourage every one to snitch on everyone else for the tiniest of things. he once convened a meeting to discuss exactly why a member of his team was seen eating a packet of crisps from the vending machine, whilst waiting for the kettle to boil when they were making cups of tea for themselves and others on their team... That level of petty, arrogance is hard to tolerate. So I quit and left them in the lurch because he threw a strop and demanded I be removed the same day... I laughed because I'd given them 2 months notice and they had to pay for the full 2 months of garden leave. :)

    But the story goes back about 6 months earlier.

    I'd become friendly with a girl in another dept... one thing led to another and for a couple of months we had a bit of a fling. I knew she'd been seeing some married guy but had broken it off because he refused to leave his wife.

    Well... guess who that married man was.... add adulterer to his list of wankerish accomplishments.

    After the xmas break, I came back to find he'd actually left his wife and was now shacked up with this girl

    On the day I left... which was also the same day I handed in my notice. he came up to me in the lobby and held out his hand with the smuggest smirk on his face and wished me good luck.

    I gripped his hand... pulled him a little closer and said... Thanks... oh, and sorry I fucked your mistress

    His grip went limp... his smirk vanished... his face went purple... and that was the moment he decided to take a swing at me and only managed to brush my shoulder... in front of about 10-12 people.

    I turned to the reception staff stood 10ft away and said, would you mind calling the police to report an assault.

    He quickly disappeared off home... HR tried to placate me (and failed)... and as I pointed out... I don't work there any more.

    Last I heard he'd been fired and one of the best snitches got promoted to his role... a few months later I was contacted to see if I'd be willing to go back as they were having trouble retaining staff. But I was in a new job with a 50% pay increase

    The company still exists... but it had to sell the big shiny HQ it built and now exists as a tiny fraction of it's former self.

    1. doublerot13

      Re: I may have the most evil story

      Ok, it's 10pm at night here. I wasn't going to have a beer but I'm going to open one right now in your honour. Respect!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I may have the most evil story

        Me too, It's Friday and my weekend off, I will be raising a beer in honour as well.

    2. heyrick Silver badge
      Pint

      Me too --->

      (there must be some text here)

    3. ShortLegs

      Re: I may have the most evil story

      @the dogd meevonks

      "I gripped his hand... pulled him a little closer and said... Thanks... oh, and sorry I fucked your mistress"

      The company wouldnt happen to have been a telco / carrier, would it? A Global carrier that Crossed many seas?

  8. C R Mudgeon Bronze badge

    There was this one guy...

    ... who had a tell -- a tight little smile that meant he was about to f*** someone over.

  9. This post has been deleted by its author

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At a certain large press agency, the head of news was known to be a very unpleasant, shouty man with a perpetually red face. How he didn't have a coronary from excessive anger is a miracle, especially after he got on the wrong side of one colleague.

    The agency had moved it's headquarters to a place near Leeds, but still had a London office since so many things occur only in the capital. On the top floor of the building are several apartments - a tax dodge when the office was built - and used by execs when they visit from headquarters.

    Whenever shouty man was due to visit, his PA would let it be known to my colleague, who would then indulge in a hefty lunch, take an enormous dump in the apartment toilet and not flush the chain. Eventually an email was sent out saying cameras would be fitted in the hallway of the apartments, but the revenge dumps continued since building services - who also hated shouty man - let us know the cameras were fake.

  11. xyz123 Silver badge

    used to have 2 OPs managers. one left for a better position, the one that remained was terrible.

    FIRST meeting with the client company without the other Operations manager controlling her (client was a very large UK satellite broadcaster), she cracked a joke about the CEO banging his new celebrity wife and because he was so old, him crumbling into dust.

    The meeting was chaired by the guys SON. 100 million pound contract terminated due to the 'disparagement' clause........

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Walnut head - lucky escape

    2. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

      Yeah, that Lachlan has a mean streak.

  12. DS999 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Why wouldn't he insist on something in writing before the meeting?

    Maybe Growler had someone on the hook willing to pay a lot, and would grudgingly cut Corey in versus risking the whole deal falling apart? As it was he got nothing but the satisfaction of leaving Growler over a barrel, but he has no idea whether he missed out on more "Premiere League footballer money"

    1. HMcG

      Re: Why wouldn't he insist on something in writing before the meeting?

      From experience, with a 'personality' like Growler, they would do everything within their power, contract or not, to stiff you on your share. Dealing with someone like that is painful enough when it's company money, when it's (what they see as) their own, you can multiply that by a factor of 10. The pain and cost of going to court to get your share isn't worth it, and with some people, you know beforehand that's the way it's going to go.

  13. Excused Boots Bronze badge

    Obviously I’m missing something

    Nope, sorry guys, you’re going to have to help be out here!

    I’ve read the article three times now and am still wondering where the issue is!

    Now ‘Growler’ might or might not be a complete arse, or, as the new guy, he was just doing the usual ‘jockeying for position in a negotiation’? Fine, I’ve dealt with both and can rapidly can tell the two apart and if the latter, think, he’s just doing his job, yes, behaving like a complete moron, true, doesn't work on me but still....

    Now since ‘Corey' apparently managed to negotiate really good contract terms, "That was the most money I have ever been paid – we're talking Premier League footballer money”, it sort of hints that ‘Growler; wasn’t as good a manager as he thought - excellent, someone to latch on to, to nurture, no?

    Of course its all went wrong, as was the case with the dot-com bubble, but ‘Corey’ had a chance to cash in some more, no?

    It was a bit of a gamble, he turns up at the meeting, at worse he gets nothing. loses the cost of his time and travelling expenses, on the other hand maybe he would get a payout from ‘Growler’, even better he impresses the new people and scores a ’short-term’ support contract for the system. Alas he threw his toys out of the pram and got nothing!

    Sorry Corey but twat!

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Obviously I’m missing something

      No Corey should have done what I suggested in my post above. Get something in writing from Growler ahead of time. If he says no then Corey can have the satisfaction of telling him "well good luck trying to make the sale without my help" rather than passive aggressively telling the wife at the last moment.

      If he turns up at the meeting, it isn't "at worse he gets nothing". At worst he gets nothing AND Growler makes buy an island money....and then Corey kicks himself every day for the rest of his working life that he'd be retired if he'd tried negotiating with Growler rather than showing up like a chump and getting taken advantage of.

      1. Roo
        Windows

        Re: Obviously I’m missing something

        I very much doubt that "in writing" means much to Growler, and lets face it Growler would not have asked Corey along unless he was essential to the deal. My guess is the vendor knew full well Growler was worth precisely zero in himself and that is why Growler wanted someone along who had some value with respect to the IP.

        1. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: Obviously I’m missing something

          If you have a proper lawyer draw something up Growler won't be able to cut him out regardless of how he feels about "in writing".

          IANAL, but I would think something in writing which gives Corey some sort of say over what happens to the company being sold would force Growler to honor the deal. Include a proviso that the buyer is notified of this up front so they know that any deal requires both Growler and Corey's approval/signature. If agreement is that Corey gets x% of the sale proceeds, Corey can therefore insure the way the purchase agreement is written that the buyer pays him that x% directly. Since Growler could not sell the company by himself thanks to the document the lawyer drew up for Corey and Growler signed, he would have no way of cutting Corey out and Corey would not need to sue him to collect his share.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Obviously I’m missing something

            With people like that your written agreement is only your ticket to get to court. It'll cost you a fortune in lawyers fees and he's just as likely to start a new company and fold the old one to wriggle out of it.

  14. FishCounter

    Karma does exist

    I worked for a contractor after leaving uniformed service and that same non-DOD service hired a complete ass of a man to manage their data center on our base in NYC. No one in the contracting team wanted to work for this guy, so we rotated 2 members of our small team onto the DC support team to "do time" under this guy. Over the next 2 years of his reign, many of us nearly quit because the experience was so awful, but during my sentence, I was there when he alerted base security to remove an engineer from the DC because he spoke while repairing a server. Our unit commander was unaware of the "intruder" until security arrived at the DC and that was the last straw. He directed his warrant officer to reclaim the DC manager's keys, at which point the manager started yelling "I know what you're trying to do, you're trying to get rid of me" and that screaming fit sealed his own fate. He was put on administrative leave due to instability and we were all informed to keep an eye out should he somehow make it onto the base. I never saw him again, but loved telling the story of his departure and that karma does exist.

  15. Eclectic Man Silver badge

    Etymology

    Wasn't the original teddy-bear on which Pooh Bear was based called 'Growler'?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/sep/04/real-winnie-the-pooh-revealed-to-have-been-growler

    "Previously unseen pictures show that EH Shepard’s iconic images were modelled on his own son’s toy bear – not AA Milne’s"

  16. Walt Dismal

    there's a known type of disorder

    Some time ago I was a manager at a semiconductor company. They hired a product manager and sales manager who was a glib classic sociopathic liar. Could not open this mouth without lying. And was a bullying type. And loved to dominate everyone, pushy tremendous narcissist ego. He destroyed the company by lying to Motorola about non-existent products and we lost our prime customer. After the collapse he then leaped around Silicon Valley to a string of other companies, treating them all the same way, ruining some of them too, eventually gaining a horrendous reputation. Unable to get a job anywhere, he went back to India where he turned to real estate, selling fraudulent projects to investors. (After that cooling off period he came back the US to con even more companies.) Currently, his LinkedIn profile is an amazing pack of lies. He spun EVERY failure as a success and made up positions. His driving quality is that he knows how to boss and manipulate people, with a lie-driven reality distortion field to match Steve Jobs fame.

    From experience with him I learned a valuable lesson in not ever letting myself get bullied or conned. Now I spot them on their first try and hold them off while I make other plans.

  17. T. F. M. Reader

    Defining Growler

    With all the mix of definitions of Growler and military/beer stories herein I am surprised that this alternative definition hasn't been mentioned yet. It invariably generates chuckles from British military personnel, I suppose. With or without beer.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Defining Growler

      "With or without beer."

      Oh, with please. Definitely with.

    2. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

      Re: Defining Growler

      Delighted to learn from the link that Australia has purchased 13 Growlers.

      Coals to Newcastle, but every bit helps.

  18. Stuart Castle Silver badge

    Posted this a couple of months ago, but it fits here as well

    When I was a student, I needed a part time job to earn some cash. I got a job as a shelf stacker in my local Sainsburys.

    It was a crap job anyway, paid crap wages, but it was work.

    We got the stock in what they called "outers". A "outer" was a cardboard tray, usually with 24 cans or bottles of whatever the product was. wrapped in plastic.. We had to load 40 outers every half an hour to reach target. If I didn't work in an old store, with shelves half the size of the modern ones, this would not be a particular problem. As it was, for most products, we had to remove the packaging, and put the product on the shelf directly, arranging them some the labels were at the front. We also had to tidy up existing products. In an apparent effort to minimise time wasting, we were not allowed to talk, unless it was work related, or we were on a break. Even though I was in my mid 20s, I used to go home aching, barely able to move and needing a shower at the end of every shift.

    We only hit the target on one occasion I am aware of.

    One day, one of my colleagues actually did hit the target, and he went to the boss, expecting at least a "Well done". What he got was "Why are you telling me this? You could be stacking shelves and working on your next 40 outers.

    Then, Blockbuster opened up a store near me. I applied for the job, and got it. While the job itself wasn't great, I enjoyed working there. I had a good team.

    Anyhow, the minute I heard I got the Blockbuster job, I walked straight in to Sainsbury's, found my manager, walked him to the busiest part of the store, told him he could stick the shelf stacking job up his arse, and walked out.

    Thankfully, for the current staff, that store has long since been refitted, and has full size shelfs now.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Had a new head of dept introduce himself to the team. He said his name and followed it up with "there's only one F in Graf"

    Suffice to say it wasn't long before he proved that there's only one effing Graf

    He may have had a forename, but like another idiot known as 'Super Youth', but no-one remembered what it it was

    (apparently SY got his moniker after being awarded 'most improved apprentice' despite the fact that everyone he met would take an instant dislike to him... it saved time)

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