back to article Oracle Cerner system implementation risks future patient deaths, coroner warns

A coroner's report into a death at a hospital in northern England has said patients are at risk unless concerns about the implementation of a new Oracle Cerner patient administration system are addressed. In a report released earlier this month [PDF], Rebecca Sutton, assistant coroner, examined whether County Durham and …

  1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    £7.9bn

    Is Oracle writing this system from scratch and if not, then why does it cost so much?

    For this much money government could have bought established ERP company and have them focus on creating unified system for the entire NHS at little - in the grand scheme of things - running cost.

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: £7.9bn

      The system was written by Cerner, which was acquired by Oracle in 2022 (lafter the health trust installed the new system). Oracle may have buyer's remorse now...

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: £7.9bn

        Tomato tomato. It's irrelevant to my question.

    2. Lyndon Hills 1

      Re: £7.9bn

      It includes an Oracle license for every patient in the health authority district.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: £7.9bn

        So with all these super mega centralized medical centers ... aren't we at a point where there goes more money to ERP-HR-BILLING-DATABASE-HELP-AI-QR-CODE-BATCH-IPAD -service(s) of mega corporations as Oracle, etc because these Mega medical centers are now run by financial people and there fancy reports ?

        How big is the budget to educate/train and put more qualified nurses, doctors on the floor ? < £7.9bn ??

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: £7.9bn

        Oracle: If our software doesn't kill you, our licensing just might!

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "the new system does not have that functionality"

    Why ? The previous one did. Who decided that that was not needed ?

    Because somebody made that decision, and now, somebody is dead directly for lack of that functionality.

    I think a lawsuit for wrongful death is the least that should happen.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "the new system does not have that functionality"

      As someone that worked in an NHS hospital IT department for twenty two years I can tell you exactly what happened, what always happens. Somebody, usually manglement, occasionally clinicians, decide a new system is required, a group is formed to outline the requirements. NOBODY that will actually use the system on a day to day basis is asked how they would use it, features required etc. occasionally manglement will speak to other hospitals about what they use and how it's working out, on numerous occasions, despite getting the response "we went with X, given a second chance we wouldn't" system X is purchased. It's then dumped on the users, who complain about missing features that the old system had. Sometimes the users are told to change how they do their job, usually the old system is kept running to cover the functionality the new system doesn't have. Where I worked there where systems 20+ years old kept alive for this very reason.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    For a second, I thought the headline said "future patent deaths". Sounds about right for Oracle.

  4. pomegranate

    Remember the phrase “AI-Complete”?

    The Coroner, Dr.Sutton, accepted that an electronic medical record diagnosed or predicted a pulmonary embolism but didn’t push the notification to the senior clinician.

    That’s different from determining that the red-amber-green system is net positive.

    Imagine adding a system to a self-driving car which flashes a light and beeps when the driver needs to take control.

    How bad does the self-driving system need to be to make the wake-up call system necessary?

    How good does the call system need to be to give it your trust?

  5. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Perspective

    Also to put into perspective how insane this is - Oracle bought Cerner for about £22bn last year.

    Government could have bought this company and have rolled out unified and then in-house ERP system across the public sector without vendor lock in and with low future running costs.

  6. Ryan D

    Why Cerner?

    Because, as my old catholic nan would say, we all need to suffer to show our penance.

    Cerner is a blight on EMRs globally. Not that Epic is bullet proof (and possibly a cult, IYKYK) mind you, but you must have a serious hate on for yourself and your patients if you sign on with the red devil (big red).

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