back to article Musk 'texts' Nadella about Windows 11's demands for a Microsoft account

Are you getting a bit tired of Microsoft's demands while installing Windows 11? You aren't alone – billionaire Elon Musk is also less than impressed with the requirements for a smooth out-of-box experience. In this instance, Musk was attempting to get going with a new laptop and was displeased to find the Windows 11 setup …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Muskabuntu

    You know where this is heading.

    1. Groo The Wanderer Silver badge

      Re: Muskabuntu

      This is going to be good for a laugh. Mr. Ego is going to try to hold Microsquishy to task instead of just installing Linux. He thinks he gets to dictate how canned software works, despite imposing the same kind of BS on Tesla buyers. I figure what's good for the goose is good for the gander. :)

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge

        Re: Muskabuntu

        Elon needs to buy Microsoft and sort them out like he did with Twitter.

        Microsoft promised me Windows 10 would be the last Windows OS I needed. I'm holding them to that promise.

        Back to Elon, he's holding it wrong. Yeah, I know that's Apple, but as I've already ticked off the MS and Twitter fanboi with my post, I may as well go for the hat trick of universal hate from the glassholes as well.

        1. deadlockvictim

          Re: Muskabuntu

          Do you *need* Windows 11?

          1. Martin-R

            Re: Muskabuntu

            > Do you *need* Windows 11?

            Want? No. Need...? Once Win 10 goes off support, it's going to be hard to say to my clients "oh yes it's fine to connect to your networks with an OS that's not getting security updates". (And given what I work with, it really does have to be Windows)

        2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

          Re: last Windows OS I needed.

          Mine was '98. Choices: put up with this shit or become a penguin.

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Great last line

      And all I could think of is Musk announcing their transitioning & want to be called Karen.

      That's an image I can't unsee, as hard as I try.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Great last line

        Sadly, that'll never happen, given how he's treated one of his daughters who is trans.

        anon for the inevitable haters and musk fanbois.

        1. James Hughes 1

          Re: Great last line

          So, perhaps some sort of citation/reference so people know what you are talking about?

          1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

            LMGTFY

            Easy to find with a quick web search. Likewise there is plenty of evidence that one reason Musk bought Twitter was to boost transphobic tweets.

      2. james 68

        Re: Great last line

        Every time I see him erupt the song "Spaceman" by Babylon zoo plays in my mind with the spaceman lyric changed to "Space Chad".

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Great last line

          Every time I see him erupt the song "Spaceman" by Babylon zoo plays in my mind with the spaceman lyric changed to "Space Twat".

          FTFY

          He can't be a chad with those man tits, which makes his stance on trans even weirder

          1. james 68

            Re: Great last line

            Man tits = moobs, but yours works too.

        2. Mostly Irrelevant

          Re: Great last line

          Is it weird that that reference made me remember the Bif Naked song Spaceman? I have no idea who Babylon Zoo is.

          I think Elon Musk is more of a Spacedork.

          1. james 68

            Re: Great last line

            If you get a spare moment, read the lyrics for Babylon Zoo's "Spaceman".

            All will become clear.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Great last line

            Bif Naked -- mmmm!

            [anon. because my wife reads this forum too]

            1. CountCadaver Silver badge

              Re: Great last line

              Mine doesn't care...mainly as she openly lusts after various celebs

      3. skeptical i
        Devil

        Re: Great last line

        Maybe the cover of _Mother Jones_'s Jan-Feb issue will make that vision a bit less traumatic -- https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/mojo_cover_janfeb24.jpg

    3. very angry man

      Re: Muskabuntu

      Cage fight

  2. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

    The option is named following way

    As for Windows 11 Pro use following Microsoft Credentials to easily create a local account.

    username: x@x.x

    password: x

    Result: "Too many bad logins, want to create a limited local account?"

    As for Windows 11 Home: A bit more difficult, for example having no network, having to use SHIFT-F10 and "OOBE\BYPASSNRO"... If that still works.

    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: The option is named following way

      Clean install via W11 ISO burned to USB with Rufus - Options include create a local account.

      https://cdn.neowin.com/news/images/uploaded/2023/11/1699369488_rufus_story.jpg

      1. Rory B Bellows
        Pint

        Re: The option is named following way

        Thanks for this tip, I will have to check that out!

        Kinda/sorta related... Malwarebytes 2024 state of malware report lists Rufus as the number 2 most impersonated brand for malvertising in search results. Weebly and notepadd++ were also on the list.

      2. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: The option is named following way

        Nice!

        I would be checking every option on that screen, sounds like a very useful program if/when I ever install W11 on anything.

        1. Casca Silver badge

          Re: The option is named following way

          Its good. Been using Rufus for a long time

          1. AMBxx Silver badge

            Re: The option is named following way

            Also good for installing Win11 on an 'unsupported' PC.

  3. Empire of the Pussycat

    If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

    (body)

    1. Smirnov

      Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

      Why? MacOS does not require an Apple account, and the offer to login using an Apple ID can simply be declined.

      1. aerogems Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

        Sure, if you want to neuter half the bundled apps. Now try and use iOS, or any of its descendants, without an Apple account.

        I get it... we all want something for nothing, but the money to develop Windows or iOS doesn't just magically appear. So, if they give away the OS, they have to make up for that revenue somewhere. Apple has a shitload of upsell offers sprinkled throughout the OS. Microsoft doesn't have as many in Windows... yet, but they do push their <whatever>365 subscription pretty hard, so it kind of balances out.

        1. jilocasin
          Facepalm

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          there's a major flaw in your logic.

          last I checked Microsoft *charges* for their OS. A quick search on Amazon shows that it's going for more than $100 a license.

          1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

            Hmmmmm Your'e doing it wrong.

            For my second user (e-waste) five year old i9 I got two grey market W11 Professional licences & two Office 2021 Pro licences for about $17 CAD.

          2. aerogems Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

            Nice strawman, but it's a little early for Halloween. The cost of macOS (or descendants like iOS) is part of the pricetag on the new hardware. Upgrades are then free, for a time, just as they have been with Windows since around 8.1. You can't (legally) run macOS on anything other than Apple's official hardware, so you're making an apples (happy coincidence) to oranges comparison. Unlike macOS, Windows can be run on hardware you assemble yourself.

            Given Apple hardware tends to run about a 15% premium over comparable PC hardware, that gives you a pretty good idea what the cost of macOS actually is. The Mac Mini runs for about $600US retail according to Apple's site, so that means macOS is ~$90US. Right in the same ballpark as OEM copies of Windows you found on Amazon. Not to mention you can find legal copies of Windows for far less. I picked up 3 licenses for Win 11 Pro for like $35.

            1. Avfusion

              I didn't vote for them

              "You can't (legally) run macOS on anything other than Apple's official hardware"

              I can legally run macOS on anything I want as long as I got a copy legally. I can't do it contractually, but that's far less of an issue for my private self.

              1. aerogems Silver badge

                Re: I didn't vote for them

                I can legally run macOS on anything I want as long as I got a copy legally. I can't do it contractually, but that's far less of an issue for my private self.

                You do realize you immediately contradict yourself in the second sentence there, right? Right? ... .... .... Right!? If you run macOS on anything other than Apple hardware, it is considered software piracy. The only possible exception might be if you still had a working clone systems during the brief period Apple allowed those to be sold. If you want to build yourself a Hackintosh, I don't really give two wet farts, but you're running pirated software by doing so.

            2. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

              "Given Apple hardware tends to run about a 15% premium over comparable PC hardware, that gives you a pretty good idea what the cost of macOS actually is. "

              Apple's hardware has been pretty good so the comparison has to be made against name-brand PC hardware. I'm not saying I don't hate and despise glued-in batteries and computers with custom SSD's and soldered on RAM. It just that hardware you get from Apple with not as dodgy as a windows box built by a clan at a computer show.

        2. Necrohamster Silver badge

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          "Apple has a shitload of upsell offers sprinkled throughout the OS."

          Such as...?

          I use macOS daily and it's never tried to upsell me anything.

          1. aerogems Silver badge

            Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

            Such as... TV+, News+, Apple Music, whatever they call their game subscription thing, AppleCare(+), the entire landing page for their app store... those are the obvious ones, which pop up pretty aggressively on a new install, then there's the more subtle ones like how devices like the iPhone or iPad have additional functionality when paired with a Mac that you can't get on a PC, which are designed to keep you in the ecosystem. There's also more traditional ones like how if you want to buy a copy of a song/movie/TV show/book you get sent to Apple's storefront to do it and you can only (legally) use that copy with the associated Apple account.

            Microsoft pushes OneDrive and to a somewhat lesser extent, Office/Microsoft 365. But they haven't been doing the SaaS thing as long as Apple, so they're still catching up on that front. Of course, Microsoft's primary customers are enterprises that buy licenses in bulk. They're fine selling to the likes of you and me, but even combined we're just chump change. Apple bet big on the education sector back in the 90s, it didn't work out like they hoped, and these days macOS, and indeed the entire Mac platform, has become kind of an afterthought with the success of the iPhone and fondleslabs. Apple's success has come from selling to the masses. They'll sell to enterprises, but it's very clear that they don't prioritize it the same way Microsoft does when designing the OS. I've worked at Apple, and aside from macOS, they don't really even use their own software internally. They use Slack, Office, Chrome, etc.

            1. Necrohamster Silver badge

              Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

              "Such as... TV+, News+, Apple Music, whatever they call their game subscription thing, AppleCare(+), the entire landing page for their app store... those are the obvious ones, which pop up pretty aggressively on a new install,"

              lol ok keep dreaming, my friend.

              It's obvious you've never used macOS for more than a minute because it doesn't upsell "TV+, News+, Apple Music, whatever they call their game subscription thing, AppleCare(+)" pretty aggressively (or otherwise) as you claim...

              On the other hand, an app store, by its very definition, exists to sell apps. This concept is hardly unique to Apple...but please keep struggling to make your point...a broken clock is right every once in a while :D :D :D

              1. aerogems Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

                That's a lot of words to say "I didn't read your post, but am going to respond to what I imagine you said. I mean, I literally said I worked for Apple, yet somehow I've never used macOS.

                There are plenty of things in life that are worth getting worked up over. Having a child, getting married, having a serious health scare... a piece of fucking software is not on that list. Get over it, and yourself already. If your life is so devoid of meaning that you latch onto a piece of fucking software to give it a sense of purpose, maybe go outside into the real world for a while. Meet actual people, do actual things with those people. Something that doesn't involve hiding behind a keyboard.

                Also, can't help but notice that you didn't respond to a single point I made, you just made an ad hominem attack.

          2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

            use macOS daily and it's never tried to upsell me anything.

            Likewise.. (3 Macs to be precise - my work ones (1 Intel, one Apple Silicon) and my home AS MBP).

        3. Orv Silver badge

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          Sure, if you want to neuter half the bundled apps.

          Who buys a desktop or laptop in order to use the bundled apps? I sure as hell don't use any of the bundled apps on Windows, because they're all trash.

          1. aerogems Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

            As usual, in a desperate bid to avoid challenging preconceived notions, people cleave ever so tightly to the unimportant aspects of the comment.

          2. ChrisBedford

            Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

            "Who buys a desktop or laptop in order to use the bundled apps"

            Apple users. Many of them buy / use very little else. Many swear by Mail, and it was far superior to the Outlook for Mac until about a decade ago which just cemented Apple's position in that market. Pages and whatever passes for a spreadsheet are adequate for 99% of home users. Safari, although horrible to those used to Firefox or Chrome, is not really that bad and for a long time was the only option on iOS devices so that established it for those users too.

            So, yeah, assuming your experience is mirrored by everyone else is a classic projection error.

            1. Snapper

              Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

              Agree, the latest version of Outlook for Mac left column can't even show how many unread emails there are in a folder if it's nested e.g 'Important Clients' > 'Biggest Client' > 'Head Cheese'.

              If it does show any numbers they are in a small thin blue font that can't be changed.

              Note to Microsoft's Interface designers, YOU HAD ONE JOB!

        4. Big_C

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          MacOS is not free.

          I assume the premium Apple charges for its hardware includes ample funds for the software and the lang support for it.

          And yes, without an Apple ID a lot of services wont work, but how could they?

          But it is at least possible to use different accounts for the computer and the online services.

        5. Groo The Wanderer Silver badge

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          Dude, if you think that Microsoft or Apple "give away" the OS, I invite to check their webstores and see what they CHARGE for the products. Windows with a PC is NOT "free" - the cost is bundled in.

        6. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          "Sure, if you want to neuter half the bundled apps."

          BONUS!

      2. ChrisBedford

        Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

        "MacOS does not require an Apple account"

        That's simply not true. You can download nothing from the App store - which includes all OS and App updates - without an Apple account. Also, without that login you will be constantly nagged to sign in.

        1. TheFifth

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          OS updates aren't in the App Store and haven't been for a long while now. You don't need to have an account to get security patches or major version updates, they are shown in the system settings. A link on the web for a MacOS download may open the App Store, but it then just redirects to the settings app and doesn't ask for a login. That's my experience with the last few versions anyway, it may be different with older MacOS versions. There are also KB articles with each major MacOS release that have links to download the installer (or there used to be anyway, not checked that in a while).

          Any app store where you purchase online software will ask you to create an account in order to allow you to redownload the software at a later date. Apple is no different here from what I can tell. Granted, an indie dev may allow you to redownload using a license code without logging into their site, but all app stores that provide access to software from different companies always require an account (the ones I've used anyway).

          You can complain about that if you like and it might well be a valid complaint, but it's odd to make out it's an Apple specific thing. Seems pretty much industry standard at this point. If you don't want to use an Apple ID, download the software direct from the vendor. A lot of (maybe most) MacOS software is also available outside of the App Store.

          Also, unless I try to use iCloud or any service that requires an account (not sure how a cloud syncing service would work without an account), I don't get nagged to sign in. Not like the constantly reappearing OneDrive icon and nag screen that pop up almost every time I update Windows*. Obviously if you open Apple Music and go to the 'Listen Now' section, it's going to ask you to sign in as you are trying to access the Apple Music streaming service. When is it nagging you to login?

          I have a few VMs of older versions of MacOS that I use to test software. I run all of these without accounts and I can't remember ever been asked to sign in using an Apple ID beyond my refusal during initial setup.

          * I'll admit I still only have Windows 10, maybe this has changed in 11?

        2. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: If he thinks that's bad he should try MacOS

          "You can download nothing from the App store"

          If the only place I can get an application is through the Apple App Store, that developer isn't getting my business. I'm long past being a beta tester for every new thing that comes out. I think I use a half dozen to a dozen applications on a regular basis and that lets me get done what I need to get done. The rest of the time, if the weather is nice, I'd rather be out in the garden.

  4. karlkarl Silver badge

    Don't Musk's Tesla cars also require the same kind of DRM-esque bullshite?

    1. sten2012

      And I stumbled here directly after clicking through a twitter link that used to be public to view but now requires an account.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You have a Xitter account?

        UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          re: Twitter/X account

          Not as bad as Truth Social. That is a place of shame. Yes, I know that Joe (POTUS) Biden has an account but it is mainly a mouthpiece for the Orange Julius (aka Trump)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: re: Twitter/X account

            ... you mean it's used to troll the Orange Julius?

            1. deadlockvictim

              Re: re: Twitter/X account

              I prefer the term 'Agent Orange' myself.

              1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

                Re: re: Twitter/X account

                I read that as Orange Judas

  5. Midnight

    Just wait until someone explains to him what Windows Update does.

    1. Evil Scot Bronze badge
      Flame

      Disable soundcard as replacement driver not found...

      Re configure hardware configuration to use HDMI audio instead of the USB audio device purchased to replace the PCI soundcard.

      Install unwanted VR/AR software that cannot be removed.

      Just who does this hardware belong to?

  6. Zoopy

    First time for everything

    This might be the first thing in the last 5+ years that Musk has said and I agree with.

    OTOH, Musk has such a backlog of schadenfreude and karma to work though, that I'm delighted he ran into this problem.

    1. Tomato42
      Boffin

      Re: First time for everything

      You know what they say about broken clocks...

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: First time for everything

      "OTOH, Musk has such a backlog of schadenfreude and karma to work though, that I'm delighted he ran into this problem."

      Let's not forget that Elon is a master programmer. Too bad he can't trot over to DDG and type in "widows without needing a microsoft ID" and read through all of the results. My Windows (7) PC is not allowed to play in the street (internet) so everything that gets put on it must not require an internet connection. I don't have the time to keep up with virus and malware updates and nuking all of the crap that gets loaded for me if I'm not watching closely. Too often I've had something start doing an update when I was under a critical time crunch and needed to get something done and back to a customer. I can't recall a single time where what ever the update did would have made life any easier.

  7. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "This is messed up"

    Oh, Elon, there are so many things that are messed up in this world.

    And you are doing nothing to help.

    1. James Hughes 1

      Re: "This is messed up"

      Nothing? Really?

  8. Howard Sway Silver badge

    Just bought a new PC laptop and it won't let me use it

    Crikey, you'd think that the guy's business might still have some sort of IT department, who he could pick up the phone to and demand his new laptop from, but no, he obviously sacked most of them, thought he had to have his own special boss laptop and went down to the local PC mart and bought one.

    1. MrDamage Silver badge

      Re: Just bought a new PC laptop and it won't let me use it

      I take it you've never dealt with a CEO before. I've never encountered one that had any form of IT equipment that was part of the official SOE.

      1. Agamemnon

        Re: Just bought a new PC laptop and it won't let me use it

        I concur with this.

        I've had to deal with "The Boss" on many occasion. Usually I can tell the blighters to piss up a rope but sometimes they have to have The Machine. (I had two CEOs once ... The Main Company and the Spinoff that I technically worked for. This was a "hip, progressive" tech magazine that you may have heard of, and so naturally the boss's wanted Really Good machines. Being a publishing company, back-end was all Solaris, DTP from Mac (clones), coding from PC Clones ... but you better believe we had four (one each, and a spare for each) High-End IBM ThinkPads. The only IBM kit really allowed anywhere near the building. But they wanted those specific machines and *I* almost choked when I saw the PO...and I wrote POs for core routers, SLBs, and SUN Enterprise gear.

        In this instance, the best you can hope for is that it comes out of Administration's budget and not IT's.

    2. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

      Re: Just bought a new PC laptop and it won't let me use it

      This sounds like he purchased this as his personal computer. Good on him for having a "personal" computer and not involving his IT department in supporting it!

      Better than a corporate computer with al his personal shit on it or worse, A personal computer with VPN access.

    3. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Just bought a new PC laptop and it won't let me use it

      At one point, Elon had a secretary that he could have asked to get him a new laptop and have it all built out and configured for him. When she asked for a raise, he sacked her. Not right away. He gave her a couple of weeks off and determined that he could do all of her work without her. When I read that story I thought that he must not have been delegating tasks very well. A good and trusted secretary is pure solid gold.

  9. Steven Raith

    Oh, you don't like AI scraping your data, Musk.

    Tell me again, what's Groks data set based on?

  10. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
    Pint

    Your Mileage May Vary

    "Running a personal Windows 11 device without a Microsoft account is not a great experience, however. Some elements of the operating system simply do not work, and Microsoft is clearly keen for customers to have an account."

    Having an account as per the last third of that statement doesn't change the middle third's operations either.

    As to the first third, I find W11 perfectly usable without a M$ account, in some (not all) regards I find it less cluttered & easier than 10.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

    1. which ones exactly?

    2. how useful are they?

    1. katrinab Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

      I don't think the Microsoft Store works without a Microsoft Account.

      In my experience, it is generally only people who switch over from MacOS who use it.

      As for me, if I am installing something, I first check if it is on WinGet, then I check if it is on the Microsoft store, and failing both of those, I install manually. I take a similar approch on my Mac, check HomeBrew first, then the App Store, then install manually.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

        "I don't think the Microsoft Store works without a Microsoft Account."

        That's not true, a MS account isn't required to install free stuff from the Windows app store.

        "In my experience, it is generally only people who switch over from MacOS who use it."

        I'm sure somewhere there are about three people (two of which are held at gunpoint) which really consider moving from a power-efficient, user friendly modern platform which lets you get on with things to the shit show and sea of pain and mediocrity that is Windows, with its constant flow of buggy updates and increasingly invasive ads and nag screens, an improvement.

        For the majority of platform changers however, the common direction is leaving Windows for Mac OS.

        1. two00lbwaster

          Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

          MacOS is an overly opinionated bug infested shitshow too. And I say that as a long time Linux user who has had to put up with some horror shows with Linux and Nvidia for many years.

          What kind of OS resets your desktop setup on every screen lock?

          1. Orv Silver badge

            Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

            It...doesn't? At least, no macOS machine I've used ever has, and I've used some pretty unconventional desktop setups.

            Mind you, if it's a managed machine then your institution's MDM server may be pushing a profile that locks that stuff down.

            1. KarMann Silver badge
              Gimp

              Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

              I think I get the thing that two00lbwaster might have been talking about, when I'm using an external monitor on my MacBook, and after the screen locks and the monitor goes to power saving, then I can unlock it almost instantaneously via the fingerprint, the monitor doesn't come back up quickly enough, and it moves everything to the built-in display. At least, that's my take on what's happening, but what I know for sure is that yeah, sometime but not always after a screen lock, everything gets moved to that built-in display.

              Signed,

              Involuntary Fanboi -->

              1. Evil Scot Bronze badge

                Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

                This explains what win 10 does at work.

          2. Snapper

            Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

            One that has been set up incorrectly.

            Nearly 40 years as a Mac consultant before you answer.

          3. Necrohamster Silver badge

            Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

            What kind of OS resets your desktop setup on every screen lock?

            Not sure what you're doing, but I use a MBP on four different USB-C docks at different locations and it remembers my window placement specific to each monitor layout.

        2. Wzrd1 Silver badge

          Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

          I'm sure somewhere there are about three people (two of which are held at gunpoint) which really consider moving from a power-efficient, user friendly modern platform which lets you get on with things to the shit show and sea of pain and mediocrity that is Windows, with its constant flow of buggy updates and increasingly invasive ads and nag screens, an improvement.

          I dunno, I've grown quite fond of reinstalling my network drivers with every update.

          Which is the only reason I end up logging into my only Windows machine. The rest are Linux boxes. I only have to fix one of those maybe once per year at most.

        3. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

          Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

          Here's a kicker. If you have Microsoft Authenticator (required if you have corporate 365 with MFA) and you want top backup your authenticator accounts (very helpful if you get a new phone) you need a Microsoft account, not your corporate 365 account, a separate Microsoft account.

          1. Sandtitz Silver badge

            Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

            "If you have Microsoft Authenticator (required if you have corporate 365 with MFA)"

            Authy and others work just fine with 365+MFA.

      2. Necrohamster Silver badge

        Re: Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

        "I don't think the Microsoft Store works without a Microsoft Account."

        It does. However they want you to use an MS account to make it easier to sync your apps across devices or some such nonsense

  12. Tron Silver badge

    Running a personal Windows 11 device is not a great experience, however

    FTFY.

  13. martinusher Silver badge

    Simple, seamless....

    In one of the regular Linux/Windows comment streams you hear about how fiddly Linux is to set up and how you need to be tech savvy to do this. Its not true, of course, although it might have been a couple of decades ago. Meanwhile, in an ironic twist, installing a working version of W11 seems to be the fiddly one. You can -- and most people will -- submit to Microsoft's data mining / user monetization because its easier and there will be a bit of computer left over for you to do whatever with. But its got ridiculous.

    Musk the resources to seriously challenge Microsoft. Its probably never occurred to him to do this before because older versions of Windows have worked "just well enough". But W11 appears to be a tipping point.

    1. Dostoevsky

      Re: Simple, seamless....

      Well, he *could* fund Linux even more than he probably does through SpaceX et. al...

      That'd be cool!

    2. cmdrklarg
      Meh

      Re: Simple, seamless....

      In my limited experience with Linux (I have a HTPC running Mint) the fiddly parts of setting it up is to get it configured to do something specific, such as making things bigger on a 65" 4K TV screen so they can be seen and manipulated from the couch.

      The fiddly part of Windows is getting it setup so that it *stops* doing several incredibly annoying things. That list keeps getting longer with every release.

  14. Bob Magoo
    Facepalm

    Tesla Account

    Don't you need a Tesla account to own/drive a Tesla?

    1. General Purpose

      Re: Tesla Account

      SpaceX won't let you launch a Falcon Heavy without an account either.

      1. aerogems Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Tesla Account

        But ma freedumb! How am I supposed to put my doomsday device into orbit on the downlow if I have to declare my cargo? It makes it kind of hard to hold world governments hostage if they get wind of my doomsday device before I even get it into orbit! Won't anyone think of the megalomaniacal villains intent on world domination!?

      2. A.A.Hamilton

        Re: Tesla Account

        I suspect you need a bank, not just an account, if you wish to launch a Falcon Heavy...

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Tesla Account

      "Don't you need a Tesla account to own/drive a Tesla?"

      Technically, you CAN opt out of the telematics, but you wind up with a highly crippled vehicle. At one point you couldn't use a Tesla Supercharger without the telematics, but I seem to recall that they had to change that since in the US, Tesla used a proprietary charging plug. If you say bad things about Tesla on YouTube, they won't sell you parts. Rich Benoit (Rich Rebuilds) has had this problem. He tried to order the black plastic cosmetic lug nut caps and was firmly denied. Didn't they also block his phone number at one point?

  15. MiguelC Silver badge

    Re: "There's a name for individuals who demand to speak to the manager"

    But he's not your usual, run-of-the-mill, Karen, he's a SPAAAAAAAAAAACE Karen

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "There's a name for individuals who demand to speak to the manager"

      Come on Elon, don't downvote, you're just proving their point

  16. VeNT

    Pot, this is kettle

    Odd how he's no issue with Twitter requiring an amount to view content?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pot, this is kettle

      Why would I want to view Shitter content? It's a bit like FB, and Tiktok, I know my time will be frittered, I will learn nothing, my opinions will be manipulated and my data sold.

      Heck, if I wanted that I could get it without an account over at the Daily Vile.

      1. theOtherJT Silver badge

        Re: Pot, this is kettle

        Because quite regularly some business who I'm invested in in one way or another - normally in as much as I use their product, or have to support people who use their product rather than a "I own shares in it" sense - announces something via bloody twitter, and then all the news outlets report it by linking to the bloody twitter, and I have no idea what the fuck they actually said because I don't have bloody twitter!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pot, this is kettle

        Tiktok is like a drug! Some good stuff but 95% mind candy. Now you've reminded me, I going for a fix of screen flicking. :(

        1. Evil Scot Bronze badge

          Re: Pot, this is kettle

          Tic-Toc has THAT content on it????

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a Grade A hypocrite ...

    So Musky doesn't like being forced to create a mickysoft account to use a Mickysoft product, that you use to be able to use ... account free!

    A while back you could use a musky product without an account ....

    Then Musky removed non-account access to the musky product.

    Then Musky removed guest accounts from the musky product.

    So Musky is happy to force people to create a musky account to use a musky product, that you use to be able to use ... account free!

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ....

    What a Grade A hypocrite ...

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: What a Grade A hypocrite ...

      "What a Grade A hypocrite ..."

      Nobody has ever accused Elon of being consistent.

  18. ben kendim

    But why is The Reg linking to Xshitter? JPL doesn't have a website?

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/26/nasa_ingenuity_rotor_damage/ You all can't be bothered to see if NASA or JPL have imagery? You need to go to Musk for that?

  19. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    Space Karen

    One line from the article sums it up quite nicely

    “ Some elements of the operating system simply do not work,”

    For the system to not work just because it doesn’t have a Microsoft account is really proof that Windows is just built around taking as much data as possible from the supposed PC owner.

    1. ChrisBedford

      Re: Space Karen

      I'd love to know what elements these are. I've been setting up Windows PCs without MS accounts for years - literally hundreds of them - and it'd be great to know what I am missing out on. Everything works to my satisfaction.

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: Space Karen

        However, the net is closing and this is the subject of this complaint. This seems to be the main difference between W10 and W11 -- 10, the account's optional "but recommended", 11 its mandatory but if you can work at it there's a workaround. You can bet that 12 will remove this loophole -- or make it just small enough to be able to avoid legal pushback.

        Don't let popular dislike of Musk blind you to the problems with Windows and other modern software. The days have long passed where an adequate profit can be made from making and selling a product. These days this is just the loss leader, the come on to get you on a subscription treadmill. Even that isn't enough so you have to be monitored closely for other revenue generation opportunities, be they direct through sales and subscriptions or indirect by reselling what's learned about you to a broker.

        I don't like this not just because its intrusive but because its a misuse of processing and network bandwidth. Profligacy will eventually come at a cost because eventually commodities like bandwidth are going to have to be monetized a lot more than they are at the moment -- currently it appears to be free, you use as much as you can your hands on (or rather, you don't use it, your advertisers and data collectors do). The party's got to stop sometime.

  20. aerogems Silver badge
    FAIL

    So we can add basic computer skills to the list of things Xitler has no clue about?

    Also kind of rich given

    1) You can't use Xitter without creating an account

    2) Xitler has created his own AI company and is using Xitter content to train it (though that did lead to an excellent set of Xitler insults from his own AI)

    3) Tesla cars transmit huge amounts of telemetry back to the mothership

    4) FSD is now apparently going to be AI based (as if it weren't bad enough already)

    So, just like a lot of other people, he's just bitching to express his fealty to a specific social group. A social group which (wisely) doesn't seem to want anything to do with him.

  21. Stuart Castle Silver badge

    He has a point, but it’s a bit rich when he owns a platform that earns it’s money by selling user data.

  22. vincent himpe

    there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

    Can i bring my existing set of application binaries and/or and installers ? I'm interested. This would probably interest many other people too.

    I keep hearing about these alternatives a lot, but i must be looking at the wrong ones since i can't run any of the applications i already own. Please help ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @vincent himpe - Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

      Sorry but no. You must leave everything behind (yes, friends and family included :) ) when you're moving from a platform to another.

      That's why they call it ecosystem. Otherwise, why would you be compelled to move ?

      1. vincent himpe

        Re: @vincent himpe - there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

        i only want to change the OS, so i don't need Microsoft anymore. I don't use any Microsoft applications (no office) , only their OS to run applications built by others. The file browser is about all i use from the OS to do basic file operations like moving , copying , renaming.

    2. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

      It is not like Windows 11 where, where a program written for Windows NT 3.51 and above, it just works. However if the program it was written for Windows 95 or 98 you need some luck whether the installer is true 32 bit, or whether the program is 32 bit. Starcraft and Delta Force 1, for example, install fine from the CD (if you still have an optical drive) - just don't install them in C:\Program Files, install them in C:\games. Or old Office in C:\Office97 or another drive.

      With Linux you don't have that luxury, but it is not that bad. But you can have bad luck that the program you need does not work, and won't compile on your system due to many changes in the linux libraries and compiler picky-nes over the last three decades.

      In short: All three major OS-es are shit. It is just a different shade. And all major OS-es can surf, email and Office. Print is about to go out of fashion, so that may not be so important. Scan is going out of fashion too since those smartphone cams reached 40+ MPixel (but you have to use OpenCamera for advanced features).

      1. vincent himpe

        Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

        All the programs i use are 64 bit. (none will run on 32 bit versions like XP or 7 in 32 bit) .

    3. JulieM Silver badge

      Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

      You can't bring your existing precompiled binaries from any other OS to Linux; but you can rebuild them from the original Source Code (the human-readable* form of a program, that programmers actually work on), and they will Just Work™ with your existing saved project files. Recompiling the source will take some time (up to a matter of hours, but can be left unattended to happen), but only needs to be done once per app.

      * For some value of readable. And some value of human.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

        You can't bring your existing precompiled binaries from any other OS to Linux

        Not entirely true - there are emulators like WINE (which is, obviously Not an Emulator) that can run a fairly diverse set of Windows applications on linux or MacOS. But it's not guarenteed that your stuff will run or, if it does run, will do so effectively..

        (I've got an old game called "Steel Panthers: World at War" running under WINE but just occasionally, it starts in a very odd screen resolution and the sound is really glitchy..)

        1. vincent himpe

          Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

          I tried Wine. Doesn’t play nice with CAD aplications like Solidworks or altium. Same for things that need parallel port access (yeah i have several device programmers that still run off a EPP port so i need to keep some machines around with an ich9 or old style pci slot.). Wine is not emulation, it’s also not complete.

        2. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

          Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

          > (I've got an old game called "Steel Panthers: World at War" running under WINE but just occasionally, it starts in a very odd screen resolution and the sound is really glitchy..)

          Curiosity got me, as always when someone mentions an old game he likes. So download the game (there is no GOG version) and try with Win11. Installer works. Says I need to reboot (I ignore that, usually not true). Game works fine too, glitch free.

          But I suck at that game and with the first clicks I killed my own units with friendly fire. Luckily a manual is included, no chance without it if you are used to C&C style control.

      2. vincent himpe

        Re: there are plenty of alternatives to Windows 11 out there

        Ok. So recompiling the source is required. Any idea where i can get this “source” for Solidworks, adobe illustrator, altium designer, rhinoceros, dataman and hilo programmers and all the other software i use ?

        I think you can see where this is headed : nowhere. There is no “alternative” to windows cause you simply can’t run applications. Switching applications is not an option. I’ll stick to windows 10 for now. All my software runs fine on windows 7 or later.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Running Windows device without a Microsoft account is not a great experience

    Running a personal Windows 11 device without a Microsoft account is not a great experience, however. Some elements of the operating system simply do not work

    I believe many would concur with that assessment.

    I believe that's quite apparent.

    I imagine most would agree with that observation.

    I think it's safe to say most people would recognize that.

    I think most people would have noticed that.

    It seems to be common knowledge.

    That's quite evident, isn't it?

    Well, that's rather obvious, isn't it?

    1. Casca Silver badge

      Re: Running Windows device without a Microsoft account is not a great experience

      What elements doesnt work?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Running Windows device without a Microsoft account is not a great experience

        really only the bits you don't want anyway.

        "people" (is it still in there?), "phone", and some other "give me all your data and contacts, files, etc and put it in the cloud shit"

  24. 43300 Silver badge

    "Running a personal Windows 11 device without a Microsoft account is not a great experience, however. Some elements of the operating system simply do not work"

    Such as?

    I've set up a few machines with local accounts and apart from the occasional nag to sign into a Microsoft account there have been no issues.

    The Pro version actually doesn't need the command-line workaround to avoid a Microsoft account either - there's a (non-obvious) option to join to a domain at the account details stage, which actually creates a local account rather than joining to a domain.

  25. Tishers

    Musk can create his own OS, he will probably call it Unix-X.

    The auto-installer will lock you out of the controls, accelerate and a high speed and crash in to a wall.

    Then a message will pop up in the flaming ruin of your computer, pointing out that it is part of the user experience.

  26. Necrohamster Silver badge
    Windows

    How to bypass the Microsoft account requirement during Windows 11 setup

    Username: test@test.com

    Pass: password

    After this login fails, you can set up a local account.

    1. Omnipresent Bronze badge

      Re: How to bypass the Microsoft account requirement during Windows 11 setup

      YO! I resorted to tequila before getting the curage to give M$ my email, then promptly deleting anything one drive or 360, and then turning off my wifi altogether. This sounds much more workable!

      1. Necrohamster Silver badge

        Re: How to bypass the Microsoft account requirement during Windows 11 setup

        Glad to help

  27. RobDog

    Doesn’t matter who you are, this is ridiculous

    “ it is still possible to get Windows 11 up and running without using a Microsoft account.”

    One of the first questions should be, if you have a MS account and want to use it click Next, or click No to proceed without.

    And that process for bypassing is equally ridiculous.

    He’s got a point, doesn’t matter who he is.

  28. ChrisBedford

    The tedious but non-convoluted way to do it...

    ...is to use (or create) a dummy MS account at the OOBE stage then as soon as thee first sign-on appears, go to Settings and create a new user account - this time you have the option of setting up for a user without a Microsoft account (don't create a password! You have to answer those stupid security questions if you do). Sign out, sign on as the new user, delete your MS account-enabled user.

    Now if you want the user to have a password press [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[Del] and create one.

    The caveat (apart from the obvious waste of time) is that MS remembers the dummy account and offers to clone previous PCs created using it. After the first time using it you have to take an option at the bottom to "set up as a new PC" (duh).

    1. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

      Re: The tedious but non-convoluted way to do it...

      Interesting to hear about the not creating a password bit. This is the process I went through when setting up my wife's new laptop for her. I didn't even know it let you set up the new admin account without a password. TBH, that's a bit of a gaping security hole, but the mandatory collection of identity-theft-worthy information as "security questions" is as well. It's appalling to think that in 2024, Microsoft still can't get security right.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Linux

    Great Microsoft are pushing people to Linux.

    What we need is a good corporate desktop for Linux, that's available for home users too that are happy to live with the BS. Would need WIne working well but more and more corporate apps are delivered to the browser. Those who want to get away from corporate spying can pick one of the other distros.

    I suspect it would start a snowball effect. Unfortunately, today, Office keeps Linux out.

    1. Necrohamster Silver badge

      Re: Linux

      "Would need WIne working well ...."

      Nobody in corporate land is going to use Wine on Linux for their Windows applications, because they might as well just stick with Windows and not have to deal with resistance from users or support headaches.

    2. aerogems Silver badge

      Re: Linux

      If I had a nickel for every person who's predicted that "if only Linux had <something>" it would be a massive success, I could probably retire early. Linux is a great OS, if you're prepared going in or have someone who's willing and patient enough to help you whenever you need it. Otherwise, it'll send people screaming back to Windows or macOS. People who are still in the honeymoon period with Linux usually are blind to this simple reality.

  30. Splod

    Linux

    Come on Mr Musk, if you're the techie you present yourself as, Linux would be no problem for you.

    (Except secret stuff in Office formats ... damn!)

    1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: Linux

      You might want to read the article... he doesnt even have a password on his wifi.

      > Musk's problem was that his laptop was automatically connecting to the local Wi-Fi, which doesn't have a password.

  31. Bebu Silver badge
    Windows

    A Cunning Plan...

    One of his mates in the middle kingdom should ship Space Karen a really high spec Chromebook with the login fiddled so he isn't hassled by that peasant concern. I imagine it would be so instrumented that he could scratch any part of his anatomy without its being meticulously recorded in Peking.

    A box with Plan9 preinstalled would probably send Space Karen sufficiently ballistic that could reach the red planet unaided.

  32. JohnnyReb

    drive a Tesla?

    how does it work when you try and setup a Tesla without a Tesla ID Elon? I have to use one, and then I get Tesla AI crawling all over my car, this is messed up....

  33. jaffy2

    Those who live in glass houses....

    I can't even buy a Tesla without signing up for an account, or manage it.... When I drive it, recordings automatically are uploaded to the Elon-cloud for AI analysis and training without any opt out!

  34. BPontius

    Poor baby!

    Poor little rich boy, the big bad world won't let you lie about the autopilot of your cars and Microsoft is collecting your information just like Tesla is collecting customers information.

    "Cry, cry for me crybaby! Cry!" -Scut Farkus, A Christmas Story

  35. osxtra
    FAIL

    Tier X Support

    A) He must not have sprung for the Pro version. Much more difficult to bypass M$ account creation with the WinDoze Home.

    B) From the classic "All About the Pentiums" by Weird Al:

    "I'm down with Bill Gates I call him Money for short.

    I phone him up at home and I make him do my tech support."

  36. trevorde Silver badge

    What happened next

    [Elon] Hey, Satya, why does Windows 11 need a Microsoft account?

    [Satya] No idea, I use Linux.

    1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: What happened next

      arsehole1 to arsehole2 woudl have been more appropriate nicks.

  37. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge
    FAIL

    Meanwhile...

    A quick google turns up this...

    "New drivers will need to download the Tesla app and create a Tesla Account before you can add their profile to your vehicle."

    Yup, that's right - to drive a Tesla (let alone own one), you need to create an account with Tesla.

    Now, I hold no particular love for, nor loyalty to, Microsoft, but that Elon Musk sure is a hypocritical dickhead.

  38. rskurat
    Trollface

    melon melon melon

    "To be fair to Musk, it is quite convoluted" - not really. Mr SuperGenius just doesn't know anything about computers

  39. John 61
    Flame

    Microsoft Account is driving me potty and has effectively bricked me sister's laptop

    Log in to a computer 4633.42 miles away for no reason... oops its down. Computer I want to log in to is right under my nose, but I can't log into it, as the computer 4633.42 miles away isn't working. A shufty round the innernets suggests reinstalling Windows. Good job, that's progress.

  40. Just an old bloke

    Musk is making a perfectly reasonable point here, Microsoft should not make it appear that an account with them is a requirement to run Windows, because this is how it looks.

    Pretty much everyone who reads the Register will know how to circumvent this but the average user won't and will sheepishly follow Microsoft's setup instructions. The gathering of personal data is one of Micro$ofts prime business drivers. Knowledge is power.

  41. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

    > Musk's problem was that his laptop was automatically connecting to the local Wi-Fi, which doesn't have a password.

    Wow a true mental giant.. no password on his wifi...

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      .. though no password WIFI gives plausible deniability if dubious content were accessed via that WIFI....

  42. uncoveror

    Just let us use our computers

    People want to turn on the computer and just have it work like any household appliance or our smart phones. We don't want to jump through hoops. It our TV interrogated us for 20 minutes when we just wanted to turn it on and watch, we would return it.

    1. Casca Silver badge

      Re: Just let us use our computers

      Been a while since you bought a new tv has it?

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