Euro shoppers popping more and more premium phones in the basket

Apple topped the European smartphone marketplace in Q4 as local shoppers opted to buy premium priced handsets. Total shipments in the region actually declined three percent year-on-year to 37.8 million units in calendar Q4 of 2023 but after seven quarters out of the top spot, Apple rebounded on the back of one percent growth …

[TVU]

I'm fine with people buying new shiny pieces of kit but I'd also like to see much improved reuse and recycling.

That last aspect is particularly important as recovering the rare elements from phones means fewer new mines and less dependence on autocratic countries to supply such elements.

[Charlie Clark]

This is really a question of getting the regulation right to make the market work properly. As long as it's cheaper to send kids to mine for whichever minerals we need, then that's what we'll get. The proposed EU rules might help because they should encourage manufacturers to consider repair and recycling in design.

[Steve Davies 3]

Many of us by used iPhones

The last new iPhone I had was a 4S. Ever since then, I buy used.

My current device is an SE-3. The old SE-2 is my in car media player as it runs Car Play very well. No SIM in that.

I paid about 30% less than the retail price for a 6 month old device.

[Lord Elpuss]

Re: Many of us by used iPhones

Begs the question - why have a SIMless SE2 in the car and not just connect your SE3 when you need to? A SIMless phone is only getting 10% of the value of CarPlay unless you tether it to a hotspot, in which case why not just use the hotspotting phone as your main phone?

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Many of us by used iPhones

Sounds like he's just using the phone as a media player and using it as a component of the car.

[Lord Elpuss]

Re: Many of us by used iPhones

Yeah I got that, but begs the question why when a phone with an internet connection can offer so much more. Unless you enjoy going Luddite-mode.

[ICL1900-G3]

Ah, well...

We can always get another planet when we've broken this one.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Ah, well...

There is about 2 trillion planets in observable universe alone. Everyone could have their own planet and then some. So don't worry!

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Ah, well...

What a great idea! When I think how quickly once-friendly neighbours turn into weapon wielding maniacs…

Where's the pitchfork icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Ah, well...

There'll still be fights over who gets which planet though, like fights in supermarkets over who gets the TV on the top of the pile when there are 150 more in the warehouse.

[Charlie Clark]

Unscientific anecdotal sample

Most of the people I know have got off the upgrade / replacement cycle and have phones ≥ 4 years old and for many a new battery seems the only thing they want. While the Fanbois do seem to be the ones to replace more frequently, I wonder how often this will occur as the caché of owning the latest and greatest phone starts to decline.

Still, given total volumes, it's not as if any of the large manufacturers need worry.

[Dave 126]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

The iPhones enjoy a lengthy period of software support. Android vendors are finally getting better, but aren't on a par yet.

Regardless of whether you spend £150 or £800, you'll still pay £30 - £60 (DIY or official) every couple of years for a new battery.

The pricier handsets tend to be more robust and waterproof than the cheap ones. I'm ignoring Samsung's novelty folding phones here.

Just as with manufacturing, there are economies of scale with end of life disassembly and recycling... a model sold in the quantities of an iPhone or Samsung A or S series will have a better chance of being recycled economically than some obscure Chinese thing.

Refurbished iPhones appear to fill the same market segment as brand new budget Androids do.

My galaxy S10 E needs a new battery... now, just where have those tiny screwdrivers and plectrums I bought last time wandered off to? :)

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

I can do the maths. 3 years + -2-3 years with a new battery is very appealing for anyone with a premium model.

Regarding IOS support, I know about this. However, a mate of mine who's been drinking at the koolaid fountain for a while says that older phones generally struggle on newer releases of the OS after a few years and many apps insist on the latest version of the OS and use changes to ask for new licences. Never come across this on any Android device. Still, as long as the users are happy with it, it's okay.

My S10e got a new battery last year and is all the better for it.

My main point is I suspect that Apple's halo may fade if phones in general become less interesting, as my own unscientific reporting suggests.

[doublelayer]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

From my experience, using iPhones to stretch the time between having to buy new ones, I haven't noticed this too much. The newer operating system versions usually don't task the hardware too much, but one reason they might is Apple's CPU throttling when the battery gets old (yes, they're still doing it, it's just that they admit it now). That can show a noticeable decrease in performance, though for my use cases, it hasn't been a problem, but my uses are relatively light on CPU usage.

As for apps requiring the latest version, I have seen it but quite rarely. It is not like Mac OS, where basically everything does that, especially everything from Apple, but it can happen. This is slightly mitigated by the fact that, if there is a new version out, the iPhone I already have is almost certainly capable of running it because they get the update at the same time as every other supported model. If someone is intentionally trying not to install a new version, though, I could conceive of this being an annoyance though not a widespread one.

[Mot524]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

Old phones struggling with new versions of iOS hasn't really been a thing since the iPhone 4, which had a relatively weak GPU and couldn't handle some of the new graphical effects in iOS 7. There were ways around this (you could turn off many of the effects). Anything made in the last ~7 years has had no problem running the latest version of iOS.

As for insisting on the latest version of iOS, that's fine. When people talk about the longer duration of software support for iPhones, they mean that older iPhones can run the latest version of iOS. So if you want an app that insists on a more recent version of iOS, just upgrade to that recent version of iOS. No problem.

As for apps asking for "new licenses" due to hardware or software updates, that's not a thing. In fact that's not even theoretically possible with Apple's monetization models for apps. I suppose an app developer could release a new version of an app as a completely separate app (not sure if Apple allows this), but then everybody would be required to pay for the completely different app to get the "update," not just people who updated iOS.

[Lord Elpuss]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

"However, a mate of mine who's been drinking at the koolaid fountain for a while says that older phones generally struggle on newer releases of the OS after a few years"

Never noticed this, and we've always had older iPhones in the family. My 11 Pro is as fast as it was new, in fact if the camera was a bit more up to date I wouldn't be thinking of replacing it. The only one that's truly slow these days by today's standards is the 5S, but that's been out of support for years now and it has a dying battery which no longer supports peak performance.

"many apps insist on the latest version of the OS"

Some secure apps such as banking do indeed ask for the newest (or newest -1) version of the OS, but most will let you go back several generations. And given that it's typically 7 years or thereabouts before the newest OS stops being supported, this is not generally a problem.

"...and use changes to ask for new licences"

Not a thing, and never has been as far as I know. Sounds like a bit of FUDraking to me.

[Yankee Doodle Doofus]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

I am also still using an S10, but my battery is in great shape, even after 4.5 years. I could deplete it in 8 hours probably if I really tried, but most days it still has over 70% when I set it on the wireless charger at bedtime.

*Edited to add: I'm in the U.S. I know Samsung often has different specs for each side of the pond, but I've no idea if battery life or power efficiency is comparable for U.S. vs European S10s.

[Lord Elpuss]

Re: Unscientific anecdotal sample

The battery specs aren't different, but the radio frequencies are. And that could definitely account for different power consumption figures.

[43300]

I only replace phones (personal one and all the work ones I'm responsible for) either when they break, or when the version of Android goes out of support. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

It is a matter of annoyance that I still end up having to withdraw working and usable phones because Android on them is out of support, but not a lot I can do about that (iPhones are far too expensive to be an option, even taking into account the longer support periods).

A high proportion of people don't use phones for anything demanding and a basic 3 year old one is perfectly adequate for their requirements.

[Anonymous Coward]

Check LineageOS and /e/ OS to see if there are official or community builds.

[43300]

Might be an option for personal devices, but for work ones we need Intune and Microsoft apps, so unfortunately not really viable there.

I believe it's also pretty difficult to do with Samsung handsets, from what little I've read on it.

[doublelayer]

It's worth checking, but don't get your hopes up. Unless it's a Fairphone or Pixel, it's likely not supported. They still have builds for many old phones (the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 is still on the supported list even though it's over a decade old), but most things you would have bought in the last four years are not on the list. Even modern Pixels aren't on the list, but there's a reasonable chance they might be added.

[John Robson]

Do options like cyanogen not still exist once google (and more importantly the manufacturers) drop support?

Been on iPhones for long enough that I'm out of touch - but we don't get through nearly as many iPhones as we did android devices (having just finished this upgrade cycle the oldest device is 6 years old, so it will probably lose support in iOS18.

The two previous phones are getting a second (or should that be third or fourth) life elsewhere (where access will be limited, and wiring them in to power isn't an issue).

[Charlie Clark]

I would say that comparing the situation now with how things were a decade ago is a little unfair. Since then there have been few changes in the OSes that needed vendor support. In addition, Google's Project Treble really did a good job in keeping devices reasonably up to date without vendor support. And we have an increasing range of things like Revanced to reduce the snooping.

Devices that support LineageOS tend to get support for quite a while until things like hardware support in the OS become a problem to support. The drivers in the vendors blob are usually all that's a required. A bigger issue for some is that some software complains about rooted devices. My S10e will get LineageOS soon so after when I'll be able to say more.

[John Robson]

"I would say that comparing the situation now with how things were a decade ago is a little unfair."

It's the only time I *can* compare with...

Good to hear that manufacturer support isn't the gatekeeping mess it once was.

[doublelayer]

I would say you're being charitable to the point of incorrectness there. Project Treble didn't do a whole lot. They have modular security updates now, but that doesn't help you if the manufacturer doesn't push them. You can't go and install them on the main image yourself. You are still at the whim of the manufacturer on whether and when you'll get those patches, let alone actual feature updates, and the only change there is that some, and only some, manufacturers have started to realize that people want them. So if you buy a Samsung device, you can get 4-5 years of security updates but that doesn't apply to most others.

As for Lineage OS, it will certainly make the software life of a supported phone nearly infinite, at least so long that the phone is likely to have some serious hardware problem by the time that Lineage no longer supports it. The problem is that your S10 is one of the few devices that will get it. You can't install it on the S20 or any later flagship, and if you bought an A-series budget or midrange device, you're almost guaranteed not to have support. You can try to build it yourself or use an unsupported version built by someone on XDA, but that's not guaranteed either and it doesn't necessarily give you what you wanted. I'd actually say that the custom ROM scene for Android today is weaker than it was ten years ago. The one you get with the device is a bit better, which softens that blow a little, but someone used to the active community will probably be a bit disappointed with the options they have today; a bunch of great projects that would provide what they're looking for which don't run on any device they have.

[ecofeco]

Volume sold is down?

That's the real news.

[Dan 55]

Re: Volume sold is down?

A few years from now Apple will sell one single solid gold iPhone valued at 100 billion dollars to Elon Musk and declare victory.

[katrinab]

“it's very difficult to measure the replacement cycle at any given point.”

Really?

Surely they know from my Apple account that the 15 Pro Max I purchased replaced my 8+, so therefore my replacement cycle was 6 years. That 8+ replaced a 6+ (3 years).

[43300]

Re: “it's very difficult to measure the replacement cycle at any given point.”

Do all fruity phones have to be signed into an iCloud account these days? If so that ought to make it possible for them to get the stats on replacement cycles.

[katrinab]

Re: “it's very difficult to measure the replacement cycle at any given point.”

I'm not sure if the have to be, but I'm pretty sure most are.

[doublelayer]

Re: “it's very difficult to measure the replacement cycle at any given point.”

They don't have to be, but if you want to install apps, then you'll have to sign in at least to the app store. That may change now that the EU's DMA restrictions are coming, but until now, a phone without an Apple account was limited to the builtin apps. Those probably do enough for many users since it would include phone, SMS, email, navigation, calendar, camera, and a notes app, but I expect that most users had some app they wanted and signed in to get it.

[Lord Elpuss]

Re: “it's very difficult to measure the replacement cycle at any given point.”

"Do all fruity phones have to be signed into an iCloud account these days?"

No they don't. But the vast majority will be.

[Chet Mannly]

Re: “it's very difficult to measure the replacement cycle at any given point.”

Certainly enough for them to make a reliable estimate of replacement cycle times.

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhone 7

Still working whole family is on this model

Not replaced any batteries

Will not pay more than £200 for a phone

Currently on a plan of £10 for 30gb

There is no reason for upgrades

[DS999]

"Shortages of secondhand phones"

That should mean better trade in deals for those of us buying new!

[Handlebars]

Are we now going from a few years of no compelling technological reason to upgrade, to a period where on device AI will get better in leaps and bounds and drive upgrades?

Or perhaps that doesn't matter as long as you have fast data?

[43300]

But do the users actually want anything which the AI can do?