A visa to fill Australia's empty tech jobs is getting more expensive, but maybe better value

For decades, Australia has failed to train enough IT pros to satisfy local employers' needs. The nation's solution to the shortfall has involved issuing visas to skilled workers from offshore, under a process that's about to change in March. Scoring a visa to work in Australia is not simple – by design. Applicants must …

[Anonymous Coward]

Twas ever thus

Tried applying about 15years ago.

Apparently a Cambridge PhD wasn't a recognised industry qualification and a couple of international post-docs weren't work experience.

Luckily I started a company in UK that paid for a house here in Vancouver where I've started 2 other companies.

I still don't have any recognised industry qualifications and do have to be careful not to call myself an "Engineer". But the weather here is nice and I don't have to check my boots for Polar bears

[Denarius]

Re: Twas ever thus

IMHO, ACS are a good example of Bernard Shaws aphorism that all professions are conspiracies against the laity. Fundamentally seems to box tick university courses done, not qualifications. But perhaps I am overly cynical as no-one I worked with regarded ACS as relevant. OTOH, the pollies seemed to think the reverse. Who am I to question Dear Leaders competence

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Twas ever thus

It used to be that a decent criminal record would get you an expenses paid cruise to the "land of opportunity".

So that has changed, but it seems the exploitation by the overseers has not (at least in IT). It's just they now wear a suit rather than a uniform.

From someone who has worked at the forefront of technology for 30+ years, has not even so much as a parking ticket, and would score about zero on the ACS suitability chart!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Twas ever thus

RE: A criminal record in the past.

Some wag has suggested that Transportation of convicts to Australia was stuffed up due to an 18th century clerical error.

Instead of sending the convicts, they sent all the decent people by mistake.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Twas ever thus

Imagine if instead we had sent all the most devoutly religious and morally upstanding people to a foreign country - what a place that would become !

[david 12]

Re: Twas ever thus

Imagine if instead we had sent all the most devoutly religious and morally upstanding people to a foreign country - what a place that would become !

Partly through not being able to get sponsored jobs at home, some of them did come to Aus -- Sydney is still a famously / notoriously evangelical ("enthusiast") branch of the Christmas and Easter established church -- much to the irritation of some of the Rum and Real-Estate army officers that came out at the same time.

[martinusher]

Re: Twas ever thus

Its the Americans' fault, again.

They used to be a nice set of far off colonies where you could dump miscreants but then they went and declared Independence leaving Britain with a bit of a problem. So they tried sending their transports to some awful mosquito infested hole down under.

One of the ironies of history is that yesterday's infested hell-hole is today's highly desirable real estate in both Sydney and on the East Coast of the US.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Twas ever thus

a Cambridge PhD wasn't a recognised industry qualification

In my experience having a Cambridge PhD proves that you can get a Cambridge PhD, and not necessarily anything else.

[hoofie2002]

Employment Fiddle

Believe me I have direct experience of one large IT organisation who over the last year has absolutely culled staff and replaced them with offshore workers on temp visas.

Note I don't have an issue with new immigrants to Oz - I am one and I hire them and work alongside them.

However this is blatant to cut the employment cost as the new people are not being paid the Australian equivalent.

Customers have voted with their feet because of this.

Don't get me started on ACS - a nice income stream for them.

[Ribfeast]

Re: Employment Fiddle

Well said, employers here don't want to pay properly for IT skills, so they dilute the talent pool to reduce wages. I could make a stack more in mining or other industries vs being a computing architect.

And all these migrants are also increasing competition for the limited housing supply.

[Cloudy Day]

Re: Employment Fiddle

A good, or even mediocre, IT salesperson in Australia will have no problem earning more than the prime minister, so not all roles are poorly paid. Whether the RIGHT roles are poorly paid is a different question though…

[Blackjack]

Even if you are visiting as a tourist Australia can deport you before you even leave the airport and no I ain't joking.

[Denarius]

given the some of the scruff I see arriving when I travel, Oz needs to deport more at the border faster, especially the Italian suit wearing mob with Pm and Merkin passports

[Anonymous Coward]

Australia can deport you before you even leave the airport and no I ain't joking.

I doubt if there are many countries where that isn't true. Except perhaps Britain, which seems to have problems deporting anybody these days, even criminals. Can't even find them half the time.

[Denarius]

Mandatory BS Bingo

IMNSHO, as Oz firms often want 5 years experience in 2 year old technologies, I assume that misrepresentation skills are required. Required skills sets include concurrent ZoS, Unix, M$ servers, Office, half a dozen odd Java based middlewares and that for the junior positions. Actual needs for the positions are usually off the shelf skills and basic BS to get past the HR gatekeepers. Above based on feedback from IT Pimps.

As for firms, one may be fortunate. A few Oz managed companies do consider staff welfare. For everyone of them there are a dozen local companies run by psychopaths in training from Merkinland or Oz wannabes. Both committed to lower pay, worsening conditions and overcharging clients. Enjoy! Hoofie is right, slash, burn and exploit are running rampant in Oz. Then the PHB class wonder why there is no loyalty and no-one training to do IT. And I wont get started on the appalling low quality of the IT university graduate, despite some of them being smart and hardworking. I encourage my grandchildren to avoid IT and do a trade instead. Better money, shorter hours and highly portable skills.

[hoofie2002]

Re: Mandatory BS Bingo

It's rampant amongst Tier 1 companies - reduce local staff and replace with temp visas - the usual US Model.

Ironically though the Tier 2 companies are snapping up all the talent let go that they normally wouldn't get and then chasing down and winning business the Tier 1's used to get because they have the right talent so it's a bonanza for them.

[Denarius]

Re: Mandatory BS Bingo

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwCD6DZCg7U

[abend0c4]

Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations

I always understood you were supposed to call them "settlers" and not "occupiers".

[xyz]

I always thought the first question was..

1) Are you white? Yes/no.

If yes go to last question.

n) What sort of house would you like to live in?

:-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Working in Aus

I did a couple of six-month stints in Aus. a few years ago on a UK project when we integrated and handed over to a local partner-company. My experience was that it's a good work environment. The locals take their work serioulsy, but not as the most important thing in the world and they take their personal time and weekends more seriously - "it'll still be there on Monday" is a phrase I heard a couple of times and my UK PM expressed some frustration because his schedule had assumed late nights and the odd weekend. He complained to the locals but was told to politely go away.

If you like sport - watching it, talking about it, doing it - then you'll find mates pretty quickly. As a Brit. I found the cultutre familiar - beer, pubs (sort of) and the tropes like barbies on the beach. The locals were friendly and often invited me along to things evenings and weekends. It's just about the only other country I've been to where you can get a decent cup of tea - although coffee was king when I was there. Can't speak for cost of living cos I was mostly on expenses, but it seemed to me like a decent place to live and work and rates highly among my many short stints abroad.

[Peter Galbavy]

> So signature experiences like a trip to the beach aren't carefree. Your dream of moving here and strolling into the surf every morning is not realistic – but also not out of reach in regional cities where professionals are sometimes loath to settle.

Coincidentally, I arrived back yesterday after my annual jaunt and 6 weeks in Sydney and did almost exactly this. But that's only because I am lucky and privileged enough to have been born there before coming here (being dragged here as a small child) in the 70s and having access to the old family home. Sydney property prices, in any area you may want to actually live in, are insane and make London look reasonable sometimes. On the other hand, a friend who was lucky enough to move out there 10 years ago walked into a better job, paying 2-3x more and the outdoor lifestyle has made her healthier and happier.

[An_Old_Dog]

ACS Qualifications

1. From TFA: One is that identity documents will no longer be stored by ACS. Instead they'll be sent to a third party that verifies identity. ACS will access assessments using an API instead of having to store and secure very sensitive personal information.

So, the Australian Computer Society does not have the knowledge and skills to secure sensistive documents, and they think it's more-secure to have some random company store them, instead?!

2. Anyone who's filled out a long, complicated web form, was on the last page, got up to hunt down the info-piece the form-makers just had to have ("What is your wife's father's dog's middle name?"), and had the Internet connection interrupted by (a) a power-flicker, (b) the dog chasing the cat who knocked the laptop off the table, (c) the two-year-old who loves unplugging-and-re-plugging mains cords, etc., or been held hostage to a web-form maker's bizarre "error-checking" demands ("Field #29 MUST be a positive alpha-numeric integer!!"), knows why an "interactive" on-line form is far, far worse than something (PDF, or even a paper form) which does not require an Internet connection to complete.

[Michael Hoffmann]

A bit torn

20 years ago, ACS was already the mob in charge of assessments.

Personally, I cannot complain: despite lacking a university degree and "nothing" to show but (at the time) about 15 years of experience and the usual batch of certification to plaster my wall with, they didn't just give me a positive assessment, but even advised and wrote a letter of recommendation for sponsorship with the Victorian state govt. They were looking for IT security folks in that day, and what would/could have been a nearly 2 year process/wait, was done and dusted in 12 weeks!

However, for years afterwards they would stalk me about joining and obtaining their attempts at creating the "definite" industry certification (the IT version of a CPA or medical professional boards). Which never really went anywhere, cost an arm and a leg, and nobody but nobody of any job I ever applied for or worked in ever asked about it, never mind required it.

So, yeah, without them I wouldn't be here, I s'pose, but their monopoly on being the gatekeeper always rubbed me wrong. Seemed too much based on luck and your file ending up with the right assessor on the right day.

[upsidedown]

Re: A bit torn

Yeah, they are an irrelevant organization who's been taken over by those who think Australian's can't do IT and that everything needs to be offshore-ed - some call this conflict of interest I believe....

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: A bit torn

The ACS got the OK from the government to be the one authority to approve foreign qualifications.

The ACS were being paid by their members to keep local wage rates up by preventing any immigration

It's like putting the Print Unions in charge of Internet adoption

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems perfectly elementary to me :|

ACS migration skills assessment Application

ANZSCO code*

135111 [Chief Information Officer]

135112 [ICT Project Manager]

135199 [ICT Managers]

223211 [ICT Trainer]

224999 [Information and Organisation Professionals]

261111 [ITC Business Analyst]

261112 [Systems Analyst]

261211 [Multimedia Specialist]

261212 [Web Developer]

261311 [Analyst Programmer]

261312 [Developer Programmer]

261313 [Software Engineer]

261314 [Software Tester]

261399 [Software and Applications Programmers]

262111 [Database Administrator]

262112 [ICT Security Specialist]

262113 [Systems Administrator]

263111 [Computer Network and Systems Engineer]

263112 [Network Administrator] 263113 [Network Analyst]

263211 [ICT Quality Assurance Engineer]

263212 [ICT Support Engineer]

263213 [ICT Systems Test Engineer]

263299 [ICT Support and Test Engineers]

313113 [Web Administrator]

[Bebu]

Re: Seems perfectly elementary to me :|

Seems to be missing the essential occupation -

000666 [BOFH Defenestral Specialist]

Employ a decent #000666 and all the other classifications go out the window.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Seems perfectly elementary to me :|

The window with the skip under it.

[martinusher]

Re: Seems perfectly elementary to me :|

When I see codes like that I tend to think "punched card".

Anyway, we all know the main skill needed for this sort of thing is "999999 [System Manipulator]".

[Rod.h]

Re: Seems perfectly elementary to me :|

...I can do some of those roles but as I don't have the right bits of paper nor have the correct funny handshake connections I'm over looked

[Bebu]

They're a weird mob...

Its the title of an AU book and film but a fair comment.

The good part is AU is such a large country (7.7m sq. km between lat. 11°S and 43°S) that you can choose any climate you desire and outside the large coastal cities you can find as much seclusion as anyone might desire. The bonus is there aren't a whole lot of gun crazies trying to kill you although the wildlife isn't so considerate.

I am pretty much lifelong resident and still its a very odd place which I suspect many immigrants don't really ever understand but are extremely grateful to live in a stable nation where the expectation of surviving to the next day and not starving is taken for granted and for their part migrants are typically extremely motivated and grasp every opportunity with both hands to the great benefit of the nation.

Even our rather mediocre politicians understand long term immigration is crucial for nation building and its only their neglect of other long term policy areas such as housing and taxation that has caused a short term collision with immigration policy.

Sometimes I think Terry Pratchett's continent of Fourex is only very slightly satirical caricature of Australia.

[Anonymous Coward]

Left the country.

As an Australian working in IT who left the country due to a lack of opportunity/job prospects let me say this. The obsession with cost cutting and offshoring as much work as possible, starting with entry level positions destroyed the talent pipline. Who is going to spend 3-4 years at University studying a degree for which there are no entry level jobs? Last I heard, my old University has 1/5 the IT students that they had in my day - there isn't the interests as it's no longer seen as a good career option, you'll make more money driving a dump truck in a mine an only need to work 6 months a year for it. Speaking of which, driving a dump truck in a mine would have been a 30% pay rise on my last job in Australia - as a starting wage!!! Even driving a semi/articulated lorry would have paid more. It's not like I was a junior either, just the lead AIX/Power Systems engineering guy for the largest bank in the country............maybe I should have been a plumber? The pay would have been better, the stress less......and no threat of my job being sent offshore.

[Fred Daggy]

Re: Left the country.

As has ever been the case, if it can't be dug up, or shorn off a sheep's back, no one is interested.

No actual value creation, thought for the future - just make the QUICKEST possible buck possible out of a socialised asset and bugger the rest of ya.

[Denarius]

Re: Left the country.

Fred, nailed it. The dichotomy in Oz is astonishing in its longevity and falsity. The manglement classes continue generations old cultural cringe and dislike of local innovation, choosing inferior foreign solutions. Whereas the doers are confident and largely competent to be innovative and creative.

[Tim99]

Re: Left the country.

When I migrated 30+ ago, a banker told me that Australia shipped iron ore out at ~AU$30/ton. It was imported back at ~AU30,000/ton as a Honda Accord.

[Apprentice Human]

Re: Left the country.

I left Oz for the USA in 2000, having finished three Y2K projects over the previous 2 years.

From my experience Australian managers are martinets; the worst sort of micro-managers who refuse to take responsibility and refuse to give any sort of guidance. And the pay is abysmal, as noted. While I have worked for several "evil empires", here in Silicon Valley, the jobs have been challenging, the pay great, and the teams have people who are highly competent. I would encourage anyone who has good IT skills to look at moving to the USA.

While I'll be heading back home for retirement, and I do miss a good meat pie, I'm under no illusion that management practices have improved in the last 2 decades. If anything, under conservative governments it's become worse with the employee having less rights, and less ways to redress unfair work issues.

[Denarius]

Re: Left the country.

my work experience suggests the same. There were a few good IT managers, but I suspect many of them are failed wannbe techies who are out for revenge on those who made it.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Left the country.

> driving a dump truck in a mine would have been a 30% pay rise on my last job in Australia -

10 years too late, them damn software blokes are tekking ar jerbs....

Driverless trucks move all iron ore at Rio Tinto's Pilbara mines, in world first (2015)

[Doctor Syntax]

"80 percent of applications arriving in an unfit state to be assessed"

Maybe that's part of the assessment.

[Scott 26]

another plus - your neighbours to the East are the best in the world

[Denarius]

yes, thats why many of them move here. Felt sorry for them on recent trip to NZ. Oz prices, NZ wages.

[Shred]

I'm amazed that there is actually some sort of filter on entry to Australia on a skilled worker visa. Anecdotal evidence suggests that they let pretty much anyone in.

Last time we were hiring, a recruiter put forward a couple of candidates who were here on skilled worker visas. Their English skills were appalling - we couldn't understand what they were saying and they were clearly struggling to understand us. One job interview was conducted over MS Teams and it was obvious that after we asked each question, the candidate was stalling while he furiously Googled for an answer. This was not for an entry level job paying peanuts and some of the questions we asked at the start were dead easy "confidence builder" questions partly aimed at helping the candidate get comfortable.

[Diogenes]

ACS - was once part of the solution

In the early 80s they were part of the solution, I got my start in the ACS run "Computer Industry Training Program". My then employer paid my ACS dues, but, being neither a golfer or "yachtie" I got little for value.

[RAMChYLD]

ACS Membership? Try their stupidly impossible IELTS requirements

As per the title. I got into the ACS no problem. My big issue is with their seemingly impossible IELTS requirements: Eight across the board. I flunked because I got a 7.5 for listening (not my fault. You try doing listening when the sound system used is a cheap Chinese CD player that made sounds akin to fingernails scratching a blackboard whenever the dialog speaker raised their voice. Even worse was that I was actually down with the flu on the day). I actually scored an 8.25 average but as my misfortune would have it the Australian Immigrations Board had just changed their IELTS requirements from a more reasonable 8 average to the aforementioned 8 across the board.