Worried about the impending demise of Windows 10? Google wants you to give ChromeOS Flex a try Google has weighed in on the controversy surrounding Microsoft's plans to render millions of Windows 10 PCs obsolete in 2025 by urging users to pop on a copy of ChromeOS Flex instead. Trumpeting the "11 Ways You Win with ChromeOS Flex" (we see what you did there), Naveen Viswanatha, head of product for ChromeOS, laid out how …
And then there are the apps. This part is trickier to overcome, and ignoring the Microsoft 365-shaped elephant in the room is difficult. [...]Google's solution? Streaming, of course! Stream those apps to your ChromeOS Flex desktop.
OK, I know I'm old, but now I'm completely lost...
I thought the *-365 apps were web-based and only required a subscription and a browser (like Chrome) to run?
And what does "streaming an app to your desktop" mean?
I *think* it means running the desktop, video and audio on a remote machine and streaming it to you. In the old days these were called thin and thick clients. Citrix was a big player.
It was a massive waste of resources, endlessly annoying, and very expensive. In the eve it became cheaper to put a machine on every desk and be done with it.
I *think* it means running the desktop, video and audio on a remote machine and streaming it to you. In the old days these were called thin and thick clients. Citrix was a big player.
Is that how the *-365 apps work!? I always assumed they were written in JavaScript than ran in the browser like the various Google apps (mail, docs, sheets, etc.).
Yep, Citrix was a technical solution looking desperately for a problem to solve. Sure there were some use-cases where temporary (and/or) remote access to an on-prem desktop was required, but by and large citrix just doubled the costs of deploying desktops. Frustratingly, the Unix world had already solved this years before with hardware x-terminals that ran an application on a server, but all the window graphics /keyboard/mouse ran locally on the (fairly) smart x-terminal - x-terminals were (largely) dumped by the industry for thin clients (for no good reason) which were by-and-large less performant and more troublesome to manage.
And that still can be done for now, as long as XOrg is still bundled with most Linux distros.
I just forwarded gedit running on my FreeBSD server to XWayland running on my Linux desktop a few days ago. The area my FreeBSD server is in only has standing space and I really wanted to be comfortable.
Once XOrg goes away I'll miss being able to do this. They say Wayland can do this via Waypipe but I've yet to work out the specifics.
"I thought the *-365 apps were web-based and only required a subscription and a browser (like Chrome) to run?"
365 requires subscription. Companies can opt for the cheapest O365 tier, currently named "Microsoft 365 Business Basic", which only includes access to the web based applications.
In all other Company/Home tiers the users receive the full Office suite package for Windows/Mac/Android/iOS.
I presume streaming your apps means for all the other productivity software that won't run on Chrome OS. Basically, most of it. Of course this is marketing, so we never mention rivals' products - except to ruubish them, if we're particularly bad at our jobs. So we don't talk about Office 365 being useable via a browser. It's not that bad actually, for basic use, you can right click on things and it's much better than most other web interfaces I've used. But I only use it if forced - I still prefer native programs.
Even the web version of Office 365 is better than Google's office suite though. But obviously Google's marketing dudes are going to pretend that everyone uses Google's office suite - so that's not something they'll want to talk about.
But none of your other software will run on Chrome OS either.
They support 600 configurations. Not sure how they'll work on the other 28,354,400 other configurations of old PC our there...
Sadly ChromeOS Flex does not support Android apps or Google Play.
I also recommend checking the EOL list for the Chromeos Flex. Some of those computer models have lost support last year already, many will lose support before Windows 10 is actually put to pasture, and some models actually came with Win11 which will outlast the support date in the Chromeos Flex list!
So if you only fancy a quick web browser and nothing else, then Flex could be worth a shot. Otherwise it's Linux every time.
What really irks me is that Google can't be bothered to support optical media many of those computers will have. No way to listen to CD's or watch DVD's.
I have an Android TV box that is a great HTPC. Cheap, easy to setup, easy to use even for the technophobes. I also have a lot of CD's, and films in DVD format - and a USB DVD drive - but I can't use it because Google has removed all optical support from the Linux kernel so Kodi/VLC and others cannot read the discs.
It's not considered a Linux distribution because while it is based on the Linux kernel, it's a closed system, not intended for the user to be able to modify the OS themselves, install arbitrary apps running directly on the kernel, etc. and it all depends on OS updates provided by Google. It may be possible to hack some of that in, but then you're no longer running ChromeOS itself.
"Viswanatha was quick to point out that hundreds of millions of Windows 10 devices are destined for landfills if Microsoft has its way"
A little overstated methinks. Who these days would bin a good working Windows 10 PC when you can always get a few bob on eBay even if it is sans disk? An opportunity for many (and we are talking millions) of Linux users to refresh their stock. A glut will depress prices which is good if you are on the receiving end. So ChromeOS if you want to keep your fingers clean or a full distro if you fancy yourself as a power user,
Almost mouthwatering - unless you or your IT department are addicted to Windows.
Corporations rarely bother to resell their old equipment. Really big ones might pass them to a refurbisher but likely aren't paying their people to eBay anything directly, but there are vastly larger numbers of small and medium businesses that have 1 to 25 PCs that don't have the resources to bother with trying to offload stuff like that AND won't bother with eBay just to get a few dollars, who run the machines until they physically die or are not worth being used by anyone, and it just goes in the bin or to a recycler which isn't allowed to resell them and usually strips the parts or sends stuff through an industrial shredder to get precious metals out of it. And if they do get resold, they usually want to include a refurbisher's Windows license, which means Windows 11 after next year, which means it probably can't be resold because it won't run Windows 11. Even if there are millions that get resold for Linux use, there are still millions more getting trashed.
The arbitrary cut-off to only allow Windows 11 on machines less than 7 years old without dodgy workarounds that may suddenly stop working, and less than 15 years old even with workarounds after 24H2 is released, combined with the cutoff of all Windows 10 support, means there will be millions of systems that are suddenly nothing but junk in the eyes of the majority of the developed world. Just look on sites like Amazon at how many refurbished systems are available with Windows 10 pre-installed using pre-8th Gen Intel processors, which will suddenly be virtually worthless because the OS is completely unsupported and the resellers aren't going to spend time trying to get them set up with Linux. Even if they just tried to sell them off as blank Linux boxes, there just aren't that many Linux USERS to buy them.
Even if many corporate PCs get recycled, there are still a lot of refurbished corporate hardware sellers - and there could be even more in the future. The shredded hard drives or SSDs may need to be replaced with new ones, but that's it.
The refurbishers might actually be a route for ChromeOS Flex to become more popular... in a year or three most of the resold hardware might even come with it preinstalled (to be replaced by the customer if needed). At least if Google takes this seriously and makes installing it onto those corporate Dells and HPs absolutely painless and automatable, and supports the refurbishers with small kickbacks(cough, comarketing deals).
For everyday mail/web work you really can't beat a Chromebook for price and performance. Running the same software on a PC should be a no-brainer and should be an identical experience.
The problem is that there are not only corporate mandates out there ("Windows...TINA") but also a sizable group of applications that were only written for Windows and (maybe) Apple. The good news, though, is that you don't really need to continually update your OS. I know that rapid builds are the modern thing but realistically, once you've got a stable code base and its well defended from intrusion then it will continue to work indefinitely. The continual upgrades that Microsoft does to Windows not only bloats the system, dragging down performance as a sort of built-in obsolescence but also tends to break as much as it claims to fix. There's rarely a compelling reason to upgrade. (....and before I get snarky jokes about old systems I've still got a live Windows 2000 system and you'd be surprised just how well the thing works)
Some simple Windows-only applications can be run on WINE: I have this working on my wife's Chromebook for an encyclopedia CD-ROM she likes, which was her "killer app" for staying on Windows, so the fact that this one app works on WINE let her migrate.
Your mileage may vary of course, but if you've got just that one Windows-only app you can't do without, it might be worth checking its WINE compatibility: if it's just pushing documents around then the chances are it will work.
Actually what kills an OS is the lack of drivers for the new hardware. Of course, for a while you can run it in a virtual machine but there comes a time when the Internet browser and antivirus solution are no longer updated for your OS. It's the end.
For my own curiosity, what browser are you using on your W2k ?
It's not just about updates that add needless features and bloat, but security. The majority of users are not running locked-down networks and locked-down PCs, or costly anti-malware and firewalls (or free anti-malware that bogs a system down more than Microsoft does) and don't have IT staff, and the majority of businesses are small businesses that don't have those huge resources, so having an OS that doesn't even get security updates (unless Microsoft deems a particular vulnerability so bad that they patch an old OS) is a bad thing.
Um, I think there are still plenty of XP machines out there, chugging away (not connected to Internet, hopefully). I'm sure there are also a large amount of Win 7 machines happily doing their jobs.
It's not because Borkzilla says an OS is over that it is over.
Better to stop connecting to the Internet after a while, for sure, but current Windows 10 machines will no doubt be able to function quite well for years to come.
You might want to add a good 3rd-party antivirus, though. Good luck finding one.
"Um, I think there are still plenty of XP machines out there, chugging away (not connected to Internet, hopefully). I'm sure there are also a large amount of Win 7 machines happily doing their jobs."
There are. I fixed an Athlon XP running windows XP just a few weeks ago. There's another that's just used to pay dvds and word processing, and an XP netbook that never sees the internet but is used to play backing tracks by a singer. I'm sure there are many others that don't spring immediately to mind.
I'm not averse to giving ChromeOS flex a go on some test kit, but I'm not sure what it could do for me that Ubuntu or mint couldn't do better. Maybe simplicity, at the price of not running all applications?
XP? Yeah, my car mechanic still uses it. But at least that one is now emulated. I pointed out to him the old PC he was using was older than his son... who can now buy beer legally.
Or DOS? Yep - still have someone who runs DOS for their accounting. Nothing wrong with a custom app written in 1988. Only ever needed two patches. One for Y2K dates, the second to add an extra digit to the invoice numbers. (Now also emulated in DOSBOX)
Hospitals (for instance) are full of ancient PCs connected to and controlling diagnostic / clinical kit. Not connected to any networks, no reason to upgrade (and plenty of reasons to not upgrade), that just simply chug away doing their job.
You might want to add a good 3rd-party antivirus, though. Good luck finding one.
I believe Avast works with Windows back to XP.
is it any good? Who knows? I doubt Which? or Consumer Reports are doing much testing of AVs for retro operating systems.
There are enterprise AVs which support everything back to Windows 2000 but you're going to be spending all your time troubleshooting certificate problems
A cunning move by Google. If they fix the bugs and get ChromeOS to work on more desktop PCs that could be a funny way to steal Microsoft's customers.
Most of the older generation who run PCs now only need a browser to work, and a way to write that letter to the council to complain about the missed bin collection.
This is the kind of move that may actually make Microsoft wake up and keep Win10 support running.
Linux has done it for the techies. Mac for the riche.
But the great unwashed don't realise or even look for the options. They may not even notice the PC doesn't get updates. If Google wanted to, I suspect Google could get quite loud and persuasive, and if there are sufficient numbers moving to the Google ecosystem, Microsoft have something to consider. God knows they shove Chrome down ones throat at every opportunity. Forced upgrades are only good if you are trapped in an ecosystem with no escape, forcing you to move with the so-called "latest and greatest". Google could position itself as the knight in shining armour, giving the PC a new lease on life and avoiding the purchase of a new PC.
Google have the resources to do something like this process (1) sign in with Google (2) slurp data to the mothership (3) lay down bootstrap program (4) install and (5) grab data down from mothership (if required) --> user now with functioning ChomeOS device and fully embedded in Google ecosystem. A good chunk of users would have the PC with a browser (probably Chrome), printer driver and Office, with not much else (expired AV trial, expired WinRAR and/or WInzip trial, Acrobat reader never updated since the date of install, VLC ... ?) - that's easy enough covered by a ChromeOS wipe and replace.
If the initial sweep found incompatible software, sure it would need to halt the process and really, really ask "are you sure?".
Not necessarily. Most of the many PC users I have had contact with are barely even aware of whatever OS they are running.
All they need is a way to run their applications. If ChromeOS Flex works for them, fair enough, but they will not change unless they are effectively forced to do so.
A recent example, a colleagues laptop failed to boot. Attempts by a 'windows expert' to fix it only made things worse. I was able to recover all of the relatively few files they had on the machine and re-install Windows10. I also installed Linux Mint alongside W10, and showed him how to boot into that instead of W10.
Two days later I had a call to set it to default boot into Mint, and apparently he has never booted W10 since.
However, all this would not have happened if a failed W10 update had not borked it's boot.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Unless Google can have their code independently verified as being free of slurping/tacking and all the other Google usual crap, I'd advise people to keep well clear of anything they want to give us.
Would you advise your children to take sweets from a stranger? No? That's the question answered.
Proudly MS and Google free since 2016.
Herpes and Syphilis are in no way equal.
Syphilis, whilst devastating if left to run, can be completely cured/remediated and removed.
Herpes (1, 2 etal) is with you for life, no cure. It hides in your nervous system, can reactivate at any time and can/will kill. It can be controlled with drugs, sorta.
Outmofnthe MS frying pan into the Google fire!
Windows 11 is awful, far too much bloat, too interest in trying be "connected" & sharing rather than just being an OS with all the feel of a child's toy than a serious OS. Unfortunately I haven't found a Linux distro that runs my audio correctly, which is a shame.
May have to look at Windows 11 Enterprise Lite install, but only if I can get a surplus licence deal if I can't find a Linux distro I'm happy with or I don't just ride it out.
>> if I can't find a Linux distro I'm happy with
I strongly recommend Linux Mint. I would never contemplate going back to any version of Windows.
Just write the ISO to a USB stick and boot from that.
It will NOT bork your windows installation (though clicking on the 'Install Mint' icon and selecting a 'replace windows' option will offer to erase your boot disk).
It WILL give you a clean (and highly customisable) user interface that is an easy transition from Windows.
I haven't found a Linux distro that runs my audio correctly
What's so odd about your audio then? I use Debian, and it just seems to work. Webcam audio, external (Focusrite) USB ADC, and onboard Intel audio all happily coexist. Things really have improved on that front over the past few years.
Now if you're into music production, then there are specific distros for you, but a quick Duck Duck will give you plenty of options. And opinions.
I concurr that Lunux Mint is a good place to start, if only to see what issues might occur with your setup, but I'd go one step further than just run it from a (frustratingly slow) USB and buy a small cheap SSD. Download a few distros and have a play. With your current hard disk disconnected you won't be able to break anything* should you want to return to what you have now.
Good hunting
*OK you can, but it takes a bit of effort.
How is Google going to "inform" people that their PC is about to be unsupported, educate them sufficiently to upgrade to another OS (new hard disk ?, over write the existing OS ? etc.)
To get people interested in their OS, they will need to target people who don't really know anything about operating systems, and tell them of the impending doom of Windows 10 becoming out of support, and coax them into doing something for their experience, rather technical.
If people have not already migrated to another OS which is not Windows, then most people will just purchase a new PC.
A friend who is technically capable, stated that they will just buy another PC.
Unless there is some form of governmental intervention, to ensure that the vast waste does not occur, then it will just happen, because Microsoft says so.
And I would like to propose everyone switch over to Linux Mint after Microsoft stops supporting Windows 10 with security updates.
I've already migrated family members and acquaintances and I rarely need to update their software (maybe once a year at most). It's at least as maintenance free to use as Windooze, and a whole lot cheaper!
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