Windows 10 users report app gremlins after Microsoft update

Old Windows 10 hardware is struggling to open some recently updated Microsoft applications, giving anyone running Windows 11 on unsupported hardware a glimpse of their potential future. Microsoft regularly updates Windows' inbox apps via its Store. Rather than wait for a release of the operating system, it can push out fixes …

[Kev99]

"Although Microsoft is noted for maintaining backward compatibility,..." PINFEATHERS! Mictosoft is as bad if not worse than apple on backward compatibility. They purposely crippled millions of pc with their hardware requirements for win11 and did the same for software when win10 came out.

[Alan Bourke]

STRAW MAN ALERT

If the Windows 11 hardware requirements cripple anything it's Microsoft's bottom line, due to people not being able to upgrade. You can still quite happily run decades old MS-DOS or Windows 16-bit software on 32-bit Windows 10. Microsoft exemplary compared to Apple and Linux when it comes to back compat, because of its huge business user base.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Alan Bourke - Re: STRAW MAN ALERT

Speaking about hardware requirements, I'm currently running Linux Mint 21.3 64-bit on a 19 year old Dell Latitude D630.

Would Microsoft be able to brag about something similar ?

[lordminty]

Re: @Alan Bourke - STRAW MAN ALERT

I'm running 32-bit x86 Raspberry OS (basically Debian) on a Pentium M 1.7Ghz with 2GB RAM and an SSD via a SATA-IDE adapter where the CD drive once was, on a Acer Extensa laptop from 2005. It's far, far quicker than it ever was with Windows XP!

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: @Alan Bourke - STRAW MAN ALERT

This explains a lot of my recent experiences with one of my older machines.

I've run a couple of ancient HP Thin clients as PC's for a couple of years for dedicated & sacrificial purposes (Back from the pre-covid days when NUC's & SFF PC's were cheap) running grey market W10 Pro licences.

Just prior to Christmas one of them decided it was time to die & as it was the more critical one I dropped the HDD into the other chassis & was met with the inevitable & expected Windows licencing\activation issues but beyond that it ran quite nicely as usual, then one day it decided not to play nice (No remote desktop connectivity for one - Which defeats the object of its purpose (Dedicated print server for 3D printer)).

I put it aside for a month or so December\January & the other weekend decided to tackle this issue again.

After installing updates after hooking up to physical devices I was rather surprised to find Windows had reactivated itself (Presumably from the BIOS licence key) as Windows Home (Explaining the loss of RDP), but also now has problems signing into my (Non existent) MS account\profile, it won't won't do much more than navigate with file explorer, refuses to recognise or boot from a Windows 10 USB stick & aborts with errors if it tries to re-install from within Windows.

So this weekend its either totally clean install time or refit the original SSD.

[David 132]

Re: @Alan Bourke - STRAW MAN ALERT

Not to be That Guy, but would this be an appropriate time to transition the PC to Linux? Is your 3D printer etc. supported, or is it Windows-only?

[darklord]

Re: @Alan Bourke - STRAW MAN ALERT

Ahh the old i can run Linux on XXXX argument yep you can but can you get business end support for the install that answer is a big no, next is linux user friendly in terms of build and of loading drivers and out the box availability which for the average home user would have no idea what to do so definitely not user friendly.

In terms of apple, i have a macbook air 2012 and has taken every update without issue so far so i dont get the update issue with apple.iwould sy my iphone is slightly different.

We live in a WINTEL world whether we like it or not. any thing else is for the bespoke builds and bored IT professionals who need something to do during down time. (i know im one of them)

[Montreal Sean]

Re: @Alan Bourke - STRAW MAN ALERT

I'm not surprised you can run Mint 21.3 on a 19 year old laptop.

I am surprised that you have a Dell D630 that is still running though.

Good job!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: @Alan Bourke - STRAW MAN ALERT

I couldn't install that version of Linux on my Apple computer.

Who is to blame?

(you don't know how hard it is to find 5"1/4 floppies in this time and age, and the time it takes to split the installation media on 140 KB max parts)

[AndrueC]

Re: STRAW MAN ALERT

And the support for ancient applications and even old operating systems is probably a significant factor in Windows' security issues. It increases the attack surface, complicates the API and requires resources to be diverted away from current core functionality. It doesn't help that MS has shown itself to be bad at planning for the future and keeps having to change direction. How many UI frameworks are we up to now?

[ldo]

Re: decades old MS-DOS or Windows 16-bit software on 32-bit Windows 10.

Yes, but who is running 32-bit Windows 10? Aren’t they all 64-bit now? And that cannot run old 16-bit DOS/Windows software.

[ComicalEngineer]

Re: decades old MS-DOS or Windows 16-bit software on 32-bit Windows 10.

I'm running 32 bit Win 10 on an aged Acer Revo NetTop (1.5GHz i3) simply because I have one piece of mission critical software which will run on Win10 32 bit but not on 64 bit. It works fine and does the job for me. I expect that it will see me through to retirement in a couple of years time

[aerogems]

Just... no. It was only with Windows 11 that the old 16-bit API was officially removed. The 32-bit versions of Windows 10 can still run apps presumably for as far back as Windows 1.0. Windows 11 still has support for all 32-bit apps, except maybe a few Ring 0 type apps, going back to at least Windows 95.

Apple has changed CPU architectures no less than four separate times in basically the same time period. There was the M68K era, then the PPC era, then the x86 era, and now the ARM era. I'm not counting the bespoke chips for things like the Apple ][. The M68K to PPC era was a swift kick to the teeth to users and developers alike requiring all new hardware and software. Then while they did come up with Rosetta for the PPC to x86 migration, there was the OS 9.x to OS X migration which was basically another swift kick to the teeth for users and developers alike.

As someone else pointed out, this is a bit of a double edged sword because it means there's a lot of attack surface area. Much of it involving APIs written before the Internet was a thing for most people, let alone the idea of network security. If Microsoft dumped all its legacy API support, Windows would become significantly more secure basically overnight, but there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth if they did so from all the people still running Office 97 or some other ancient bit of software that they refuse to give up under any circumstance.

At some point a line in the sand has to be drawn. So, let's say that MS wants to start using SSE 4.2, which looks like anything older than the OG Core i5/7 lines doesn't make the cut. Those chips came out in 2008, which is about 15-years ago. While I'm all for people using older hardware to prevent e-waste, I don't think it's unreasonable for software developers to say that it's been over a decade, so they're going to start using SSE 4.2 going forward. Even Linux dropped 386 support because it got to a point where trying to support it was holding back further development, and all in the name of an ever shrinking userbase. Windows 10 has been around for like 10-years now, and Microsoft made known the exact date that it would end support for the OS before it was even released. It's hardly their fault if people sit on their hands until the deadline has passed and then piss and moan about how they didn't have enough time to prepare for an upgrade when they literally had a decade. In an ideal world, Microsoft could open source old versions of Windows and let a community of developers continue to fix bugs and plug security holes, but we don't live in that world, so no point obsessing over it.

[Doctor Syntax]

"some other ancient bit of software that they refuse to give up under any circumstance."

That'll be the control software for some humongously expensive piece of hardware whose long defunct manufacturer confidently wrote to run on the then shiny new version of Windows. They could, of course, give it up but that would involve a large, unplanned write-off and and a large, unplanned project to replace it.

[Pantagoon]

I imagine these irreplaceable, old PCs wouldn't be connected to the internet, will only have one function and so wouldn't need to be kept up-to-date with all the latest bells and whistles. They can be left alone to chug along until the hardware dies. A customer of mine still uses a Windows 95 PC to run their packing line because, as you say, the line software won't run on anything else. It'll keep going until the availability of spare parts runs out, not because of a software update killing it.

[Greywolf40]

Good point. I know a few hobbyists who use their PCs in their hobby, isolated from everything else, doing their limited job perfectly.

[Doctor Syntax]

If they can be isolated easily, that's OK. But if new work instructions have to be loaded or results extricated then it could get a little more tricky.

[John Brown (no body)]

"I imagine these irreplaceable, old PCs wouldn't be connected to the internet, will only have one function and so wouldn't need to be kept up-to-date with all the latest bells and whistles."

You may well imagine that in relation to 10 years old kit that might use a locally plugged in dongle or something, but with the more more recent trends to online authentication, I'd not be surprised if £1m+ hardware controlled by s/w running on Window 8/10/11 now is still required to phone home to keep running in 5-10-15 years time because people are still writing s/w specific to a Windows version or is expensively certified to specific Windows and/or hardware.

[ChrisC]

"but there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth if they did so from all the people still running Office 97 or some other ancient bit of software that they refuse to give up under any circumstance"

Which is why I don't understand why MS stopped continuing to make use of virtualisation here - remember how they used to offer a VirtualPC copy of XP back in the early days of W7, would it really be too much for them to simply offer up similar pre-built VMs for other older versions of Windows, so that instead of trying to maintain backward compatibility at the API level within the current version, they could do whatever they liked in this version and let older software that didn't like the changes fallback onto whichever VM provided the appropriate API.

I know it wouldn't necessarily be the answer for every use-case (especially anything that involves hardware interfaces), but for most people who just want to be able to continue using their preferred older version of an application, or where there isn't even an upgrade available, then it'd be sufficient, just as XP Mode was back then.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Anyone else recall that M$ said that Windows 10 would be the last OS ever, and that they would just update it periodically? I do. And, I was pretty ticked off when I bought a new laptop about a month before they announced 11.

[John Brown (no body)]

"Windows 10 has been around for like 10-years now, and Microsoft made known the exact date that it would end support for the OS before it was even released."

Did they? I thought a major part of Windows 10 release marketing was that it was the last version of Windows you'd ever need.

[toejam++]

The minimum hardware requirements for Windows 10 32-bit are fairly close to the recommended hardware requirements for Windows Vista 32-bit. Besides a bit of extra memory and disk space, the only big change was the requirement for the NX/XD bit, which was missing from older Pentium M and Pentium 4 processors that were already a generation old by the time Vista came around. For Windows 10 64-bit, the big change was the requirement for the CMPXCHG16B, PrefetchW, and LAHF/SAHF instructions, which were missing from the earliest Opeteron64 processors (those CPUs can still run the 32-bit edition).

I have an old Dell Latitude laptop with a Pentium M Dothan processor and it runs (well, walks) Windows 10 32-bit. If there was a WDDM driver for the i855GE chipset, it would probably be tolerable. But there isn't, so it runs FreeBSD instead.

As for software support, everything that worked for me on Windows XP 64-bit still worked with Windows 10 64-bit. Likewise, everything that worked for me on Windows Vista 32-bit still worked with Windows 10 32-bit.

[Bitbeisser]

Apple has avoided any backwards compatibility for many, many years. It was just easier for them to get away with it as they lock you in on their own hardware. One more way to cash in on those rose colored shades wearing fanbois.

Microsoft has noticed that Apple is raking in all that dough and think they now have to be just like Apple.An because they can't lock you in with hardware, they are taking a page out of the playbook of Adobe & Co and make you pay through the nose for subscriptions.

[bombastic bob]

And... THIS is why

THIS is why the MS choice to:

* Update shared runtime without notice or proper testing

* Force you to update/upgrade without choice

* Use the customer base as their "Testing" department

IS THE WORST POSSIBLE CUSTOMER SUPPORT POLICY EVAR!

Win-10-nic and Windows II : "COMPLIANCE IS MANDATORY. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!"

(customers are cattle to them)

[Tom Chiverton 1]

> cock-up rather than conspiracy seems more likely

Which part of their track record makes you think this ?

[mobailey]

> > cock-up rather than conspiracy seems more likely

> Which part of their track record makes you think this ?

To give Microsoft the credit it deserves: the number of their cock-ups does exceed their number of their conspiracies.

[43300]

Yeah, indeed,

It's honestly difficult to judge in cases like this - it could be either. However, their cock-up count has got off to a flying start already this year, with the main patch Tuesday update for W10 and Server 2022 in January failing (and still failing) to install on most machines, another patch which broke Edge / New Teams / New Outlook on Server 2022, various assorted problems with New Teams, and possibly others which I've not encounted.

We've also recently had an issue with the audio drivers on Dell laptops. It's currently unclear who is responsible for that particular problem.

[Doctor Syntax]

A conspiracy would very likely get cocked-up anyway.

[MrDamage]

Microsoft has a track record of being the absolute embodiment of Hanlon's Razor.

[aerogems]

There's an old adage: Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

If you take a dispassionate look at Microsoft over the decades, most of the things people ascribe to being part of some conspiracy could much more easily be explained by someone making an honest mistake. Like the example from TFA of a person setting the wrong compiler flag. While there certainly were instances during the Gates and Ballmer years where deliberate efforts were made to monopolize the market and snuff out the competition, even a lot of the examples people bring up could probably be explained less by some shadowy cabal of individuals standing around in a circle with hooded robes discussing new evil plans vs someone just making a seemingly inconsequential decision that ended up having huge implications.

I'm not really sure why it is people seem to have latched onto MS for all their tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, but whatever the reason, most of them make about as much sense as the potato people from the Salad Nebula traveling thousands of light years so they can cause Type 2 Diabetes in people by getting them to eat too many starches.

[David 132]

> most of them make about as much sense as the potato people from the Salad Nebula traveling thousands of light years so they can cause Type 2 Diabetes in people by getting them to eat too many starches.

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

as much sense as the potato people from the Salad Nebula traveling thousands of light years so they can cause Type 2 Diabetes in people by getting them to eat too many starches

[Crosses off "potato people from the Salad Nebula" from the list of "things that caused my diabetes"]

Now I only have 1200 other things on the list! Oh noes!

[Munehaus]

" as much sense as the potato people from the Salad Nebula traveling thousands of light years so they can cause Type 2 Diabetes"

If there's one thing I can't stand it's crazy people. The king of the potato people won't let me. I begged him. I went down on my knees and wept.

[Ken Moorhouse]

Re: the potato people

Huh, they've invaded my sock drawer.

Perhaps I should stop shopping at Primark.

[Strahd Ivarius]

Well, with the latest update my computer didn't get the 5G connectivity we were supposed to receive with the COVID vaccine.

[Terry 6]

No of course not. You need to connect it to your.........

[Pirate Peter]

time to start investigating linux installs :)

i will not touch win 11 with anyone else's 10 foot barge pole

when my surfacebook 2 failed i looked at win 11, and said NAH and replaced it with a mac book

same will happen with my couple of old machines running win 10, once i can no longer use them they will get wiped and Linux installed, had enough of M$ forcing changes on me

[aerogems]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

I swear, we go through this same routine every single time there's a new Windows release or an old one is about to go EOL. When the new one comes out, it's the worst version Microsoft has ever made, everyone and their dog claims they won't ever use it, but will switch to Linux instead. Fast forward about a decade and now that new version of Windows is the old one and is the greatest version of Windows to ever grace computer screens anywhere. Meanwhile, Linux market share remains basically flat as far as desktop users go, while the share of the new version of Windows slowly ticks up. Linux can be a great OS, but you have to know what you're getting into beforehand. You can't just expect it to be a drop-in Windows replacement. It's a lot more "user friendly" now compared to 20+ years ago, but there's still a bit of a steep learning curve, in large part because Linux has a perpetual "road work ahead" type sign up in front of it. As soon as one subsystem starts to stabilize, someone gets it in their head that they need to rip the entire thing out and replace it with something else. How many different audio subsystems has Linux had over the years? OSS, ALSA, and then KDE and GNOME had their own sound servers, now I think there's been at least two more subsystem revisions. There's init.d vs Systemd, X11 (XFree86 vs X.org) vs Wayland and there was also the short-lived effort from Ubuntu's devs. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head from only kind of vaguely paying attention to Linux over the years since I stopped using it.

Let's just drop the act. If you [royal] read El Reg you're not the sort who has luddite tendencies. You like to play around with new software, you like the relentless and quick march of technological change. Stop pretending otherwise just because all the cool kids are saying "Windoze sux!" We're not in primary school any longer, you don't need to say the right things just to be part of a particular social group anymore. It's OK to say you like something even if most other people don't.

[43300]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

There is a lot of truth in that, but equally Microsoft do tend to make some poor decisions with new versions sometimes.

As regards Windows 11 - it's really not that bad. Some annoyances for sure, and it doesn't really offer any notable advances on W10, but it's no a compete disaster (which W8 definitely was). Biggest issue is the hardware requirements which will lead to a load of computers getting unnecessarily scrapped. Now that does deserve heavy criticism - they could easily have created it so that it looks for the hardware security capabilities at install, and uses them if they are there, but installs without if not.

Not sure that all of us on here like change for the sake of it. The problem now is constant change and lack of testing, leading to an increase in instability. The 'new version every three years or so with security patches in between' generally worked fine. In-place upgrading from one version to another used to be risky, but to be fair to Microsoft that has actually improved to the extent that since Server 2016 it's even fairly safe to do it with servers (most - still wouldn't try it with some such roles as DCs).

[Denobin]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

“ …they could easily have created it so that it looks for the hardware security capabilities at install, and uses them if they are there, but installs without if not.”

No, that’s completely against the point of security updates. The point is to remediate as many endpoints as possible to establish the best security posture possible (security is only as good as the weakest link.)

Sadly, sometimes people need to be forced to do what’s in their own self-interest. As well, MS doesn’t want to be inevitably blamed when an old vulnerability is exploited.

[43300]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

"No, that’s completely against the point of security updates. The point is to remediate as many endpoints as possible to establish the best security posture possible (security is only as good as the weakest link.)"

I think you are missing the point - what will actually happen in a lot of cases (especially home users) is that they will continue to use the old computers anyway, despite lack of patches for W10, so this could actually make the situation worse!

The security changes in W11 which rely on specific hardware are nowhere near significant enough to justify the inflexiblility of the hardware requirements, either.

[Terry 6]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

I agree, except for this bit..

"(especially home users)"

Because home users may well, if they can afford it, upgrade for the new shiny Win 11, eventually. When anyone they know has caught it.

But the squillions of small businesses round the world, with a creaking Win 10 (or older) machine won't "upgrade" till they've had every last byte squeezed out of their investment.

[43300]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

"Because home users may well, if they can afford it, upgrade for the new shiny Win 11, eventually. When anyone they know has caught it."

Maybe, but that's not what I've been seeing - most people seem to use phones / tablets for general stuff such as looking at email and social media, and get the computer out much less frequently than in the past - and they don't want to spend money on another one until they have to.

As regards W11, I'm seeing total indifference there! Those who are influenced by peer pressure are likey to be far more interested in getting the latest iPhone.

[Terry 6]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

And that is a fair point. Comments in this context are restricted to those who still want a computer. Possibly a diminishing number since a smartphone does indeed fulfil all they ever needed a home PC for.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: time to start investigating linux installs :)

As regards Windows 11

Surely it doesn't exist? I distinctly remember Microsoft proclaiming that "Windows 10 was the last version of Windows that they would ever make!" Surely, being the honourable and ethical company that they are, they wouldn't have lied?

Wouldn't they?

[[e-mail]]

Alternatives

For my private use I turned to ChromeOS and I am happy I did so.

[Someone Else]

Re: Alternatives

Hmmm, from frying pan to fire...

There may be an advantage there, but might be hard to see without a magnifying glass.

[MrDamage]

Re: Alternatives

More stable OS with longer support.

[Terry 6]

Re: Alternatives

Think the word "private" would have to be given some careful definition there.

[43300]

Re: Alternatives

His data is privately shared between him and Google...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Alternatives

And publicly between Google and advertisers (for a small fee).

[Anonymous Coward]

A calculator...

An OS that can't run a calculator... oh dear.

I had someone report this on a Core 2 Duo, so I checked on a Core 2 Quad I have. Yep - no calculator. PC still fine as a media centre and for complex gaming maths... but can't display a calculator.

Anyone know what dlls I need to drag the Win7 calculator across?

[AndrueC]

Re: A calculator...

It doesn't sound like an OS problem to me. It appears that someone has built some of the apps (or a library that they jointly rely on) using an unfortunate compiler/linker option. Of course it depends where you draw the boundary. Is the calculator app part of the OS just a free application that ships with it.

That line blurs a bit if the problem lies in one of the common runtime libraries but I still don't think we can blame the OS unless core functionality is impacted.

[FirstTangoInParis]

Re: A calculator...

SO WHERE ARE THE FLIPPIN QA PEOPLE CHECKING THE WORK THESE MORONS ARE DOING????

Oh I forgot, MS sacked them all. Does nobody at the top care about this stuff, or are they all just rolling in their bonuses because they’ve talked a load of twaddle about AI?

[Strahd Ivarius]

Re: A calculator...

I agree, the people using the "insiders" build and patches have AGAIN failed at finding the most important issues.

[druck]

Re: A calculator...

The majority of them will be MS fanbois with the latest shiny, they wont spot problems relating to old hardware.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: A calculator...

"That line blurs a bit if the problem lies in one of the common runtime libraries but I still don't think we can blame the OS unless core functionality is impacted."

Common runtime libraries shipped as part of the OS - irrespective of what the OS is - are core functionality if applications depend on them. The entire purpose of an OS is to run applications. Where else would you put the blame?

[AndrueC]

Re: A calculator...

Maybe :)

I would say it's part of the OS if applications have to rely on them and/or are expected to rely on them. For example MSCORLIB.DLL. A lot of applications rely on it because they run on .NET but you don't have to develop for .NET to run under Windows so is it part of the OS?

Or the Visual C redistributables. They ship with the OS but I wouldn't consider them part of the OS either. You can develop applications without them as Borland ably demonstrated.

Without knowing exactly where the problem lies it's hard (for me) to decide if it's an OS problem or just a Microsoft problem but at present I'm leaning toward the latter as it appears to only impact a few apps.

[ChrisC]

Re: A calculator...

Hmm, I get what you're saying, but that then requires you to decide which apps are so integral to the operation of the OS that they *have* to be considered part of it (at least if you want to be able to make any real use of the OS - e.g. we don't really need Control Panel given that it's merely a graphical front end to the underlying registry etc. settings, but take it away and I suspect even the most hardcore of Windows power users might be slightly irked), and which are simply nice little extras included as part of the default install but which in no way influence the OS itself, such as Calculator, Notepad etc.

So for me, I'd just adopt KISS, and say that, if it's included in a standard factory install of that particular version of the OS, then it ought to be considered part of the OS at least in terms of managing user expectations - i.e. Calculator et al ARE provided by detault with every Windows install, therefore it's not unreasonable for a user to expect them to still be useable following any update which hasn't rendered Windows itself unuseable on their system.

[ldo]

Re: An OS that can't run a calculator... oh dear.

I use a “scratch” Jupyter notebook as a calculator. In one cell, I can type something as simple as “2 + 2”, up to a complex Python expression, and even multiple statements. I can have as many named memories (variables) as I want, so I can break down a complex calculation into multiple steps across multiple cells. I have access to all the real transcendental functions in the math module, and even complex versions of same in the cmath module. If I want high precision, there is the decimal module. I can even do advanced graphing with matplotlib.

(And yes, the overhead of Jupyter is sufficiently small that I can leave it running all the time.)

[Sceptic Tank]

Re: A calculator...

Also not sure what kind of calculator needs SSE 4.2

[ChrisC]

Re: A calculator...

The kind that, even immediately after startup, has already grabbed more memory (25MB) than an instance of Word (20MB) which has an open (albeit short) document currently being edited...

[Munehaus]

Re: A calculator...

"Anyone know what dlls I need to drag the Win7 calculator across?"

Ironically I've used the calculator from ReactOS on Windows for the last few years, as it's substantially better than the one that ships with Windows.

[Ken Moorhouse]

Windows 10 users report app problems after Microsoft update

It must be a slow news day today.

[Doctor Syntax]

I suppose my SiL still on W7 will be OK, otherwise it'll finally be the upgrade to Linux.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

I suppose my SiL still on W7 will be OK

Not if she uses it to connect to the Internet..

[Dan 55]

Microsoft unable to target the right CPU

So now must be the perfect time to move away from managed code to compiled code.

[abend0c4]

Dodging the updates in the long term is problematic

Not if you stick to Windows 7...

[43300]

Re: Dodging the updates in the long term is problematic

Yeah, but then you need to dodge the malware which exploits the security holes whic have come to light since it was last patched!

[LenG]

The time for change approaches

For some time the only thing which has kept me on windoze was games. However most of the games I am interested in can now be played on linux and the only thing keeping me on windoze is inertia. I've freed up an M2 SSD and will shortly be installing linux on that to make the system multiboot. This will allow me to discover anything essential which I can't run under windows and can't do without.

[Henry Wertz 1]

Re: The time for change approaches

"However most of the games I am interested in can now be played on linux and the only thing keeping me on windoze is inertia. I've freed up an M2 SSD and will shortly be installing linux on that to make the system multiboot."

I think you'll be duly impressed! I'll note, benchmarks recently show games in Linux getting 95-130% the frame rate in Linux compared to the same hardware in Windows, in general. The 95-100% range is pretty uncommon, most games are around 115%.

If you have an older video card, it's particularly impressive, AMD and Intel themsleves may have minimal improvements for older cards, or stopped driver support entirely. But Mesa Gallium drivers are fully modern and support up to VERY old AMD and Intel GPUs, get speed, compatibility, and capability improvements with every release. It's lovely!

If you have Nvidia hardware, nouveau (OpenGL) and nvk (Vulkan) driver are apparently getting better but I would use the Nvidia driver. Linux users love to HATE on the Nvidia driver and talk about how it's garbage. But really, I've found the performance of them to be quite good. Could a Mesa driver be even faster? I don't know, at present the answer is "no it's not", but the nouveau and nvk development were pretty moribund until recently so the drivers aren't all worked out yet like they are for AMD and Intel GPUs. (noveau/nvk could not reclock the GPU until recently, even a 4090 is not going to run games well stuck at 200mhz, there wasn't much excitement about making the drivers feature complete and comformant when the 200mhz GPU clock was going to make it run like ass anyway. Now they have reclocking support so they just started heavier work on these drivers within the last 6 months or so. So there's some catching up to do there.)

[Henry Wertz 1]

Intel SDE

First, I'll note a few of the Linux distros mulled a MacOS/Win11 style increase in requirements. They found...

a) "hwcaps" were put into the distros in the late 1990s; when CPUs began getting MMX instructions, hwcap allowed for non-MMX and MMX versions of libraries and binaries to be installed side-by-side, with the system automatically loading the right one based on the hardware capabilities. So this was instead extended to handle SSE3, SSE4.2, AVX, AVX2, AVX512 so you have your distro get slightly bigger, but maintain compatibility on older hardware while still getting the speed benefits on newer hardware.

b) Based on that, they decided to take a look at doing this again in about 10 years. They plan to maintain compatibility with the likes of Core 2 Quads until like 2032 at a minimum!

Second...

Intel SDE! "Software Development Emulator". This is FREE from Intel for any purpose, personal or commercial. It's intended for testing the newest CPU instructions on an older CPU that doesn't provide them, to make sure your software using those shiny new instructions is using them properly (i.e. you can even test your app before the new CPU using some new instructions even ships.) But it provides everything back to at least SSE4.2, and I think all the way back to MMX... AVX, AVX2, AVX512, TSX instructions, etc. are all there. You can run "sde your_application" (in Linux) and "sde yourapp.exe" (In Windows), with no discernible slowdown (it only traps and emulates the unsupported instructions, so it has very little overhead.) I used this with SecondLife on an old potato when they switched from a non-SSE4.2 to SSE4.2 build (without even mentioning it in the release notes!) with no discernible performance difference (maybe 1FPS difference?) I didn't get the speedup of SSE4.2, but emulating it didn't slow me down noticeably either compared to the previous non-SSE4.2 build. I don't know how this could hook into running Microsoft Store apps since those are presumably launched by some Windows service or something -- but presumably one could figure out SOME way to run the store or the service under SDE?

At any rate, there is a solution if you start having more and more apps require new instructions, as long as the kernel and early-boot stuff don't start requiring it!

[ldo]

This Is Why They Say ...

... Windows is a great OS—if your time is worth nothing.

[AlanSh]

Try this if you are stuck

I can't stand the Win 10/11 calculator. I always download the old one from Winaero. https://win7games.com/#calc

It works just fine.

Alan

[Blackjack]

Well; while Linux may not be for everyone, it may be an option to keep old hardware working

[Tron]

We really need another option.

Not sure if the Pi is up to it. I think we need a stable mainstream computing option for desktop and mobile computing. By stable, I mean we don't have to update hardware until it dies, and everything remains backwards compatible. By mainstream I mean you can turn it on and it just works. We have had systems for a while that will do everything we need them to, aside from exotica and localised AI, which is not essential and perhaps unwanted.

So we need a stable platform that is compatible with standard PC hardware that will just keep on trucking for decades, using applications or SAAS and standard file formats and protocols. No nudging or manipulation or walled garden, but a benign system designed to offer the tech plateau we are now on, without the endless issues such as Windows updates breaking stuff or being forced to use your computer as a dumb terminal for services.

Maybe Pi and a stable Linux fixed for retail consumers (something Linux has been failing at for decades). Maybe something else. But it should be cheap rather than cutting edge. You want to push the envelope, buy something else or cluster several units. For the majority, a consumer friendly 'Model T Ford' of a computer. No BIOS 'security' restrictions, no requirement to store stuff on Google's servers, and any software can be run without an app store or restrictive oversight.

Let's do the computer revolution again, with the hardware, firmware and OS designed for a stable environment and openly documented. Geeks can pimp it, customise it and develop it, civilians can just use it. Computing not owned or controlled by MS, Apple or Google, with built-in distributed and clustering capabilities. There must be some bored tech billionaires out there that want to have another roll of the dice.

[Denobin]

Re: We really need another option.

You describe a utopia that cannot exist. Security issues and bugs will necessarily cause charges to the platform. The closest OS today to what you describe is Linux, but even that ecosystem would be anarchy without the change management that’s been built around it. As far as hardware, I’d like to know if there’s a platform that has had no engineering changes for 10 years that necessitated the refactoring of code.

[biddibiddibiddibiddi]

Re: We really need another option.

We could start executing anyone suspected of exploiting the flaws. I bet it would stop very quickly.

[RedGreen925]

"Windows 10 users report app problems after Microsoft update "

So what else is new perhaps we could have a news story when they release one that does not do anything uselessly incompetent as they always do. Though I have to thank them for the incompetence a Windows 98se "upgrade" lead to me switching to Linux some twenty-five years ago in few months time, May or June of 99 I think it was. It took a perfectly working Sound Blaster AWE64 sound card, top of the line at its time, from being able to play sound for anything to only a midi file. Downgrades to 98, 95 a, b or c were useless as they had the same issues at producing sound except the midi after that "upgrade". Redhat 5.2 that I bought and still have actually after a simple sndconfig putting in the DMA and IRQ settings had zero problems with producing sounds, never have used Windows for daily use since that day. Have made shit load of money from their incompetence as well, fixing their garbage OS for the morons who persist in using it. So thanks for all the fish Microsoft, where would us people interested in technology have been without your trash to provide us with a living.

[biddibiddibiddibiddi]

Breaking News: After February Patch Tuesday, no users report a loss of printing capability, and there are no reports of default browsers being reset to Edge. We are still making inquiries to be absolutely sure as it's so unbelievable, but we have also seen no complaints about blue screens and boot loops.

[biddibiddibiddibiddi]

I still can't even get updates to install properly weeks after the patch issue causing the 0x80070643 error on Windows Update, which ALSO prevents anything from the Store from installing or updating. The stupid thing is that the error occurred for me because my recovery partition really was broken, I fixed the partition, updates worked, then a few days later the error started again.

[brooker_007]

I tried Windows 11 and frankly, I did not like it, so I reverted back to Windows 10, set up as I like it.

However there are two software programs you can buy and use to lock your "Registry" so that upgrades and anything else your computer might download from the internet, is wiped from your "C" Drive when you reboot.

In fact, the programs are so good that I pull the power cord and reboot without crashing my computer at all - my computer reboots the way I set it up - because I don't like Microsoft installing unspecified updates on my computer and what those updates are for, in the longer term.

The two programs are Deep Freeze, which I use and Crypt Drive - I am not aware of any others which do the job.

Since "C" Drive is locked, it is necessary to partition your drive to "C" and "D" drives and download everything to "D" Drive, then when you reboot and "C" is wiped, you still have everything you downloaded on "D" which is also firewalled from "C" as well - thinking of viruses and so on.

Go to Firewall. "Allow an app through firewall" and delete all apps which you don't recognize so they can't connect whenever you go online - Deep Freeze and Crypt Drive too seems like a good idea.

[Pascal Monett]

Deep Freeze

Interesting tip, thanks for that. I'll be looking into it.

[biddibiddibiddibiddi]

That's ridiculously extreme.

[MJI]

Core 2 Quad here

But on 7 still ooops after making a change from XP

Would use Mint full time, but need to use Windows specific software too often with no linux alternatives (I asked them)

OK I rely on good AV firewalling, and only using specific websites.

[andy gibson]

Windows 10 photo error from 2018

There's been a Windows photo error - file system error (-2147219196) - around for some years

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/wouldnt-open-photos-file-system-error-2147219196/ab8d1194-fc3e-46d4-a28a-fd5d04d91e57

[Omnipresent]

Luckily

for Windows 11 forced adaptors, our machines haven't been able to connect to the internet for weeks now. Thanks Windows 11. You have done the world a great service.

[Fignuts]

Error in article

In the article, the author states:

"The Register doubts the company [Microsoft] does much in the way of regression testing on unsupported hardware."

To be more factual, the line should read:

"The Register doubts the company [Microsoft] does much in the way of regression testing. Period. Full Stop."

I think the word "regression" may be superfluous as well.

[biddibiddibiddibiddi]

Re: Error in article

Well, in this case, "regression" just means "works on anything that is already installed".

[Affable]

What many seem to miss and it's been going on for a long time is system file corruption.

At least every other month if not more often, I run SFC and it finds system file corruption and repairs it. I always run the DISM command after as well.

i think Microsoft has to know about this but they don't want to acknowledge it. My company works on over 500 computers a month and it happens on all of them.

[navarac]

Borking an old system...

...is MSFTs way of "encouraging" W10 users to buy a new machine! They'll probably do the same to W11 when the next iteration comes out this autumn.

[anonymous boring coward]

"A cynic might go as far as saying it has enough difficulty with quality when it comes to the kit that it does support."

MS supports something? Officially?

[Terry 6]

"Support" in terms of any of the big tech companies is an elastic term anyway.

Anything you buy from any of them could become scrap tomorrow. And the more your tech relies on the mother ship the less likely you'll be to get full use out of it.

Smart speakers anyone?

[Terry 6]

An addendum...A few days after the above.

Ring. Just increased subscription for storing door camera recordings by just shy of 50%

[John Ocampos]

I've encountered similar issues after the recent Microsoft update. One workaround that worked for me is rolling back the update through Windows Update settings. Additionally, ensuring that all installed applications are updated to their latest versions can help mitigate compatibility issues. If the problem persists, reaching out to Microsoft support or community forums for further assistance might be necessary.