Russia takes $13.5M bite out of Apple over in-app purchases Apple has paid a fine of ₽1.2 billion ($13.5 million) to the Russian government after Moscow decided the company violated its antitrust laws by preventing iOS users from going outside the App Store for in-app purchases (IAP). News of the payment was shared by the Russian Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) on Monday, which said …
I’m a bit perplexed that they’d pay it. After all, with the sanctions in place and the fact that few companies are doing much business in Russia these days, why would they have to? I’m not even certain that I can sell my software in Russia right now - even if I wanted to. Mind you, the means of checking seems to be offline right now - so maybe Vlad is attacking Apple in a fit of pique.
Apparently Apple is still operating its app store in Russia, though they have removed apps for sanctioned banks and the like from it.
Since they quit selling hardware there after the war began a couple years ago I can't imagine they are getting much revenue from Russia, and that will probably drop to near zero if they have to let companies make payments outside the app store.
Russia has used employees of western companies as effective "hostages" to force them to stay in business or to pay fines, maybe they are worried about retaliation against former Apple Store employees or others they might have in Russia? Otherwise I can't see why they wouldn't just shut down the app store there. At this point it wouldn't cost them anything monetarily, though Putin is exactly the sort of sociopath who would imprison some innocent Apple Store employees to get revenge.
You'd think Russia would ban its people from using iPhones over fears of western spying, like China is in the process of doing.
you didn't think that one through: IF Apple did that, THEN people would know everywhere in the world that iPhones can be bricked remotely. Even if you have absolutely nothing to do with the official reason. Would YOU buy a phone from such a manufacturer ?
zolko: you didn't think that one through: IF Apple did that, THEN people would know everywhere in the world that iPhones can be bricked remotely
cow: You arent thinking this thru.
The more entities in the world that help kill the Russian war machine the better it is for everyone in the world.
THat makes the world safer for everyone and last i looked we all live on this planet.
zolko: Would YOU buy a phone from such a manufacturer ?
cow: Why wouldnt i ?
I think you need to look back at yourself and stop being so self centered, and actually think its better you or me lose an iphone knowing we ata least tried and save a lot of misery in UKRAINE.
If microsoft also bricked everything they could in Russia, the entire place would be in serious shit. Half the banks would close because... well they dont have any computers and thats just the start the wwar would be over significantly quicker than it is now ?
... how can they be sure they are not funding the Russian war effort?
They shouldn't have paid them. They shouldn't have been allowed to pay them. And they should get a hell of a lot more negative publicity for doing so than they are. This shouldn't just be a tech story, it should be on the mainstream news.
Would they pay fines to North Korea, the Myanmar junta or Iran?
The West should normalise relations with Russia or freeze them out. It should not be selective. It makes them look weak and corrupt.
I'm not sure that bricking iPhones would have much effect on the war. Paying the fine will, but most iPhones are in the hands of consumers, not government leaders who have their own phone system, at least purportedly, and could easily switch them out at little cost. There's a good reason for them to refuse to pay the fine. There's not a great one for breaking phones that have already been sold.
It wont end the war but it will help drive the message to the people.
double: Paying the fine will, but most iPhones are in the hands of consumers, not government leaders who have their own phone system, at least purportedly, and could easily switch them out at little cost.
cow: Im pretty sure that iphones are being used by Russian commands and troops in Ukraine and probably other military and political leaders in other parts of Russia. If this helps add confusion or whatever and then thats a good enough reason.
Knowing Russia and their lack of equipment because of their corruption and theft problem, i wouldnt be surprised that there are many soldiers who dont have a radio or other military communication device, which leaves basically iphones and google powered phones.
Google and Apple should be bricking all the phones in Russia that they can.
Both android and iOS phones call home and provide location data and much more…
You don’t need to actually listen to individual communications to get useful intelligence…
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/chinese-tracker-hidden-in-sealed-part-in-uk-government-car/
(I think this also got covered by ElReg, but link didn’t come up on my search.)
Im not talking about individual communicaations, im emphasizing the simple fact thaat many Russian soldiers today dont have state provided radios etc but are recieving orders over their iphones and android mobiles. These orders and commands are helping them kill Ukrainians, thats a fact, at the very least without those orders there would be more chaos and less ability for them to try and do harm.
Do you have a source for the Russian military not having any communications equipment? It doesn't seem that plausible since they have a lot of equipment they've been burning through. Radios are not that expensive to make and don't get used up as quickly as weapons. Meanwhile, they keep blowing up infrastructure including electricity and communications systems, so if they were using their own phones, they'd frequently drop out. They can also buy radios from any number of Chinese manufacturers who make radio equipment all the time.
And, even if it were true, Russia could also get a lot of cheap Android phones for their military if they needed them. I'm not seeing facts here, but supposition and wishful thinking. It would be great if Apple could push a button and throw the Russian invasion into chaos, but they can't.
I never said Russia doesnt have ANY communication equipment. I simply said there often dont have any, particularly at the ground level of supplying the nobodies who are doing the actual fighting.
Way to distort what someone said...
Russia authoritities dont care about people, that includes their own, im sure you will agree with that. THey dont have any problem sending RUssians to their deaths because of lack of or poor equipment, there are plenty of examples of this happening. Military authorities often dont care about their own people, history has many factual stories of this, even the US abandons veterans.
They could buy radios from the chinese, but hey what makes you think they actually care ? THey are sending untrained Russian men to their deaths just because...thats the Russian way, they make progress by using their men as meat bags.
"They could buy radios from the chinese, but hey what makes you think they actually care ?"
The fact that using personal phones would a) not work, b) introduce several security problems, c) cause chaos for the commanding people and therefore d) slow their ability to invade the place they're trying to invade. They don't have to buy radios because they care about the soldiers. They need to buy radios because, if they don't have them, they can't run their war as well as they want to.
Our differences come down to one central point. You think they are using personal iPhones for battlefield communication as the only option, but I have not seen any evidence indicating this. Just because the Russian military have done some things badly doesn't mean they will do everything badly, and even if they did do everything badly, it doesn't mean they'd necessarily do it badly this way. Your suggestions also don't fit very well with the way they've used military equipment. So far, they have had a lot of equipment, but it hasn't been great because a lot of it is old. At one point, Russia built and stockpiled a lot of stuff, and I don't see many reasons why communications equipment wouldn't have been included. Radios don't get used up like drones do, so if they once had them, they probably still have most of them.
double: At one point, Russia built and stockpiled a lot of stuff, and I don't see many reasons why communications equipment wouldn't have been included.
cow: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/10/19/new-russian-soldiers-issued-with-fake-body-armor/?sh=533107d814f0
If you are a Russian soldier, you cannot rely on body armor to protect you. Because there is a good chance that it is either inadequate, missing or even, due to chronic corruption, a replica made for Airsoft play — paintball wargaming — with no actual bullet resistance.
We have a fundamental difference. Your article demonstrates that Russia could do this badly in the way you describe. It does not demonstrate that they have done it badly, or that they responded to that mismanagement using personal phones as a method. It does not respond to the technical objections that I raised to the method. Clearly, you find one of their failures convincing enough to assume that they have similar mismanagement elsewhere and to come to the conclusion you have. This is not sufficient evidence to convince me that they use the systems you say they do, any more than I would be convinced that this mismanagement means they are now attacking Ukrainians with golf clubs because they ran out of guns. I don't think we will reach an agreement on this one.
double: Your article demonstrates that Russia could do this badly in the way you describe.
cow: Could implies this hasnt happened, the article tells a story that it is happening and thats just one example.
double: It does not demonstrate that they have done it badly, or that they responded to that mismanagement using personal phones as a method.
cow: The story is presented as fact, not sure why you keep believing its make believe.
double: This is not sufficient evidence to convince me that they use the systems you say they do, any more than I would be convinced that this mismanagement means they are now attacking Ukrainians with golf clubs because they ran out of guns.
cow: Here we go with the extremism.
I never said ALL, i said SOME, there is a difference. I said some soldiers dont have radios NOT all, and i said SOME of these soldiers are using phones to communicate.
WHy do you have to twist my words ?
You obviously didnt reead the rest of the article which tells the very story i was sharing in my own words.
```
According to the UK’s Defence Intelligence, some new conscripts are now being forced to buy their own body armor. Except that, thanks to the inevitable law of supply and demand, prices have now gone up and the same protective vest will now cost you $640 online. Which increases the incentive for anyone in the supply chain to steal them
```
I suppose you know more than the UKDI ?
The idea of bricking phones, while appealing, is a slippery slope.
Could cutting off access to the app store, updates, iCloud etc for a geographical area be do-able? A "Great Firewall of China" in reverse... But then, people will just use VPNs...although VPNs have a sketchy history in Russia..
Somebody's already mentioned IBM in the context of its sales to Germany during WWII. If a company wants to make a quick buck during a war, it will...
I never claimed bricking would be completely successful. Way to demand perfection, and because an idea isnt perfect it shouldnt be tried. THere are many things in life that are not perfect, even computers arent perfect i guess we shouldnt use them at all.
I simply said it would help ruin their machine in some way, not perfect just it would make a difference and thats worth trying.
Microsot should also push bad updates to fuck up all their machines, that would also hurt the Russian economy.
Pretty sure the monopoly being referenced is the combination of high market share of phones and the requirement that developers pay Apple for any in-app purchases - even if made without using Apple's infrastructure.
I'm with the top-level poster here - absolutely for Apple being fined for requiring developers to pay Apple for, well, nothing from Apple, but on the other hand, the fine is going to Russia. Urgh.
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