Microsoft touts migration to Windows 11 as painless, though wallets may disagree Microsoft's desperation to persuade customers that migrating to Windows 11 is a painless process has taken a new turn, thanks to a relentlessly perky video: "Make Your Move to Windows 11 Easier." Uptake of Windows 11 is not going well, despite less than two years remaining before Windows 10 drops out of support – although an …
Exactly this. Outside the nerds/techies that inhabit el-Reg most people do not care about the operating system. As long as they can "go on the Internet" ("Eh, what do you mean 'browser' - what is that ?"), play music, games, edit a document, ... they are happy -- especially if things do not change at all.
Most would quite happily have stuck with Windows XP if microsoft had not killed it.
I'd have been very happy with a continuation of XP's user experience; though certain elements of hardware support would obviously need modification to keep up.
It's almost as though having modular components that can be developed and re-used on more than one platform are a good idea.
Oh, yes...
Heheh... I used to do on-site service. I'd scope it out a bit on the phone first before I'd come, and when I asked what version of Windows they had (98, ME, XP in those days), they'd tell me something like the name of their ISP. "What version of Windows is this?" "Sympatico!" (Bell's residential internet service)
I quit doing on-site service during the first covid panic, and never went back to it because I really hate the computing environment now. Microsoft ruined it. Also, it's impractical to work on Windows on-site now, because of update reboots to oblivion that got me stuck holding the bag. Windows is somebody else's problem now.
I haven't seen enough of it to really complain, but I detest the dumbed down UI in Windows 11. When working with it, I type commands and program names because I get flummoxed with the GUI. It's a disconnect to me. Good thing they haven't renamed regedit.exe yet eh? lol
Yes, quite. Windows XP was horribly fragile, and easily owned, but the UI was all down hill from there. Windows 7 was the best Windows OS in my not so humble opinion (Hell, I even stopped hating Windows!) but the UI was a bit more dumbed down than Windows XP, and even Vista. It was still OK though, it was very attractive (Aero glass), smooth and I could still do what I needed through back end means if the GUI was too limited and cumbersome. (e.g. cacls instead of drilling through that silly permissions interface. Regedit etc.). Windows 7 still had good "Classic" settings too if you didn't like the dynamic start menu.
When Windows 8 came along, it was demonstrated that a free, little library (implemented as an Explorer extension) could add back the default Windows shell behaviour. Classic Shell. That shows you that it was a simple matter of deliberate sabotage for Microsoft to remove that funcitonality even from "Desktop Mode".
That would be awesome, if Microsoft went back to the Windows XP UI at the front end, or provided such a choice for desktop use.
Not used windows 10 or 11, so googled adverts in windows 10/11 and selected the images to see what it was all about.
They can fuck right off with that shite, as well as telemetry.
As others have said, maybe people put up with it because the OS is just seen as per the internet, full of ads.
If microsoft charged for the OS on a monthly basis, then i do not see much resistance. People pay exorbitant sums per month for Sky and they have adverts all over the place.
Except, of course, more Telemetry and Adverts
Just what are MS doing with all that telemetry? It pretty obvious they aren't passing any of it back to any of the developers to work with otherwise we'd be seeing actual improvements with the OS instead of the usual 'Break something, fix it, repeat next month' cycle we're in now.
If, after over two years availability, your new OS is at less than 20% market penetration, you have to accept that it must be a fundamentally broken, complete and utter steaming pile of shit that no-one wants to use. So go away, fix the total abortion of a UI, rip out all the telemetry and adverts, stop insisting on onerous hardware requirements that don't add value, make any AI 'assistants' entirely optional, enable local accounts and give everyone the option to have the desktop they want with a Start menu they prefer, such as 2000, XP, 7, 8, 10, etc. Perhaps then, you'll have a little more success and a lot less hate.
The last three computers I've bought were available with Windows 11, but I specifically ordered the Windows 10 Pro version anyway. (Lenovo is good about that.) Windows 11 needs up front work to undo the UI borkage -- if I wanted a Mac all-pictures no-words dock, I might have bought one. And I've seen reports of driver borkage in 11 too. Sure it supports the most common configurations, but I work with multiple audio devices, some older, and it's bad enough in 10 without 11's new failure modes. Then I'd have to fight the telemetry, ads, etc., which I've been able to tame easily enough in 10.
So I use Edge only for administering MS365. Being fed up with all the adverts and Daily Mail /Independent articles it thinks would interest me (use that AI and think again M$), I tried turning that experience off my selecting New Tab. But oh no, that’s full of effing adverts too. I had to further “customise my experience” to get to a crap-free new tab.
Needless to say I don’t use Edge for anything else.
@CountCadaver
Many websites do the idle thing of user agent string checking (instead of what they should do if they actually use a certain (not widely supported) functionality in a browser is to actually test if the browser supports it)
I use a user agent switcher addon in Firefox, and if I disguise as Chrome then most sites that disallowed me then let me in (& over 95% of the time no issues with the website functionality, however have found a few that do use some Chromium only functionality )
Like most versions of android the improvements in Windows are micrometric as far as the end user is concerned.
Most people will simply see that the task bar defaults to the center instead of being held in the left .. Other than that they will see some new wallpapers.
There is no point in explained to most people why they need TPM etc in order to install W11. they are truly not interested and it is understandable.
I did a clean install over Pro on an old nearly compatible machine - TPM present, CPU missing ONE tiny instruction - no checks get done, just the usual pain to install with a local account!!
Agreed cosmetic changes over windows 10 are of minimal interest to most people, Mostly just jumping through same hoops to get rid of some the annoyances - e.g. disabling widgets, beefing up the UAC prompt for installing apps etc.
You won't get it to install the annual feature updates if the computer doesn't meet all the requirements (clean install will be necessary). Other than that, I'm not aware of any current issues provided the compuer has Secure Boot and at least a TPM 1.2 (if either of these aren't present, it won't install without intervention to the registry).
"You won't get it to install the annual feature updates if the computer doesn't meet all the requirements (clean install will be necessary)."
That's nonsense, all the various unsupported PCs I have here got the 22H2 and 23H2 updates via Windows update like our supported PCs did (some of the unsupported machines even got them earlier than some of the supported ones), and the one that didn't (a tablet with 4GB RAM and a almost full 128GB SSD) only needed the installation of the 23H2 enablement kit update to move to 23H2.
There is no need for a clean install, and never has been.
Granted, all the PCs here do have a TPM (some 1.2, others 2.0), and none older than Ivy Bridge, but I doubt that makes any difference.
"That's nonsense, all the various unsupported PCs I have here got the 22H2 and 23H2 updates via Windows update like our supported PCs did "
Well, I have tested this on quite a few physical and virtual machines, and I've never got it to install, From looking at forums, that appeared to be everyone else's experience too.
So sounds like Microsoft is providing a special service just for you!
"Most people will simply see that the task bar defaults to the center instead of being held in the left .. Other than that they will see some new wallpapers."
I had a user ask whether their laptop would be getting Windows 11. I had to point out that it was already running Windows 11 and had been for a number of months...
My PC didn't qualify for the Windows 11 vendor fest, only on the basis that the processor was 1 generation too old (Intel 7th Gen). Using the approved modifications to the Registry and downloading the ISO I upgraded to Windows 11 painlessly and other than the stupid menu system nothing has seemingly really changed except the need to download a fresh ISO for every major refresh (Windows Update handles all but the semi annual upgrades)! Certainly it looks as if this stupid situation was brought on by the hardware industry trying to force Microsoft to become their sales agent, which I am sure will be repeated with whatever comes next with the need for more computing power for AI.
Having spent considerable effort in beating win10 into submission and severing all ties from my system to MS (exccept for OS updates) why on earth would I want to switch to a new OS which has absolutely nothing new I want, let alone need.
With gaming on linux improving all the time I anticipate being an MS-free household next year.
Completely agree with this! So far i've managed to stick to Win7 but now when installing various applications i get errors saying i need windows 10/11...
I really like SerenityOS, but i think its still a few years away so 2024 might finally be the year that i switch to Linux. Microsoft have abandoned people who just want an OS to facilitate actual work with a UI that helps them. WIndows UI is a mess.
Its sad to see what Microsoft have done to Windows.
Because it might be a stepping stone? We already know that Win11 will go heavier into integrated AI support along with support for all the latest advances in modern hardware; we can certainly expect the latest version of DirectX to make its way to Win11 once (some future) hardware comes around with the horsepower to support it. 3D, etc, plus of course their push for enhanced security through full TPM support.
Extending kernel support for ongoing API development can't last forever. We might gripe and moan at Win11's developments but hardware development doesn't hold still, and expecting them to keep patching Win10 to keep up with that hardware is foolish. Now, whether or not MS's choices in integrating new technology, regardless of if the individual user cares or not, is CERTAINLY up for discussion! But...future users will expect future tech to be available in their PC's, for example AI (ugh!), and to stick your head in the sand and say "No way!" to a constantly changing and evolving end user expectation of experiences is damn foolish. I've already come across a YT video where their idea of "research" was to ask ChatGPT the question - yeah, that's 'research' all right o_O But that's what future users will expect of their computer experiences - we might have different thoughts, but 1/2 of our responses will just label us as "freaking Crotchety Old Men" to anyone under 30.
tl;dr In other words, computer technology will evolve with or without Microsoft participating in helping push that new tech along. nVidia, for one, is pushing processing power hard and is it smart for MS to *not* go in and develop OS support for it? So, we have Win11, with Win12 coming soon. We're beginning to sound like old men firmly holding on to our Amigas.
Partly. Install OpenShell and you'll have a proper menu similar to Win 7 rather then Microsoft's more recent cartoonish approaches to the control interface. You'll then find the usual UI chaos still appearing from time to time, as some things will still default to "Microsoft apps", but that's fairly tolerable.
I'm running W11 and OpenShell, it looks and feels like Win10 with OpenShell, and there's no obvious reason to upgrade - no improvements at all that I see.
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> So why are the hardware requirements un-necessarily ramping up if you want people to adopt it?
You could argue they’ve been unnecessarily ramping up for 30 years. The systems in late 80s running what became MacOS and what was Solaris running on next to no memory and pedestrian processors worked just fine. I’m not convinced we have had the good end of the deal with 2000 times more memory and 50000 times increase in clock speed.
Work laptop upgraded and frankly spent less time doing so than a larger Windows 10 update. Unimpressed by the interface changes, time spent to stop the news feed, and the task bar keeps turning icons blank. Multiple desktops are slow and quirky too. So it works, but I can't say I'm overjoyed.
At home, not a chance. If they allowed local accounts and older hardware support without any hassle or workarounds I might have considered upgrading. Until they do, the migration to FreeBSD continues..
Unless things have changed… last time I installed Windows 11, merely having no available network was no excuse. Setup blocked and refused to go any further until I’d connected the machine one way or another, so that it could force me into creating a Microsoft account.
I had to resort to - from memory - pressing shift+F10 to get a command prompt, killing the setup process, then restarting it with a switch to the effect of “/noMicrosoftAccount” (not actual wording, obviously), before I could continue with a local account.
Yes, it was doable and cost me only a few minutes’ effort, but the direction of travel is clear.
On the plus side, I bet Coprolith - sorry, autocorrect strikes again, I meant Copilot - will require a Microsoft account, so that’s one less thing that will be bothering me.
I installed 11 on a "new to me" PC over Christmas, for immediate lack of a USB I downloaded the ISO & used Rufus to make a bootable USB (Once I found one).
On booting I was faced with a menu that gave options including, no MS Account setup (Adding a local user account name of choice), TPM, Memory etc restrictions & post install booted straight into Windows 11.
The requirement of TPM 2.0 chippery, which is may be missing on even relatively new computers, is criminal.
This means lots of perfectly usable PC:s and laptops will be junked, since they cannot be upgraded to Windows 11.
(Or one could be optimistic and see it as a pool of hardware that can be assimilated to the Linux world).
As I have said many times, W11 is alright but I can't really see any reason to upgrade unless you're forced to. I only use it 'cos I get it through my work MSDN and we're about to roll out in the next 6 months so we need to get some practice in finding where MS have hidden everything useful!
I tell a lie, you get tabbed version of Notepad! Whoop-de-effing-do! ha ha!!
For reasons I can't recall, I upgraded to Windows 11 a few months ago. It's buggy junk. Several times a day copy/paste stops working, and the only solution is to restart Windows Explorer.
I've been using Windows for 30 years, since 3.1. I've used GUIs on Linux, Mac, and even VMS. The clipboard always just works, and you come to rely on it. How on earth can Windows reach version 11 with instability a fundamental service like this?
The useless Microsoft forums suggest that I look for an application is the cause of the clipboard problems, but give no idea how to identify such an application. It seems unlikely, as the applications I run are far from exotic. In any case, what kind of Mickey Mouse architecture would allow such interference?
> Several times a day copy/paste stops working…
It’s probably losing connection to the Microsoft copy-paste-datamine server :)
(NB: ten years ago, everyone would have known that my comment above was ridiculous hyperbole for the purpose - whether I achieved it or not! - of humour. Now, in this era of telemetry and everything-under-the-sun being fed into rapacious LLM training sets… am I really joking?)
The one that really annoyed me was finding out that docs on our work issued PCs are being scanned to catalogue acronyms. The grammar check etc will then reference that catalogue for later use. It sounds a useful feature... BUT, at what cost?
This isn't at a user level, or even the local machine, no. Organisation wide!
What if you work on documents that have security implications? Or even stock market implications? The sort of thing that the wrong person getting hold of could use for insider trading? Ot blackmail?
Who is to say someone clever at MS or elsewhere isnt already mining it? I would not be surprised if it's not happening already.
My last hold-out with Windows 10 is gaming.
I haven't used it for anything else for over a decade.
Yep, I'm aware that Linux gaming has come a long way - I have a dual boot on my gaming rig.
About 80% of games I own work flawlessley in Linux, for the others and in particular, for VR gaming, sadly windows is the only option.
I can "trick" my "incompatible" gaming rig to install windows 11, but why?
It brings absolutely nothing to the table for me personally - nothing at all. There is Zero compelling reason to upgrade. Nada. Zilch. The Big Fat Zero.
If I could get 10 percent game performance improvement ? Yeah, maybe.
If the OS was super silent and let me control how I used it, perhaps.
Perhaps the reality for Microsoft is that people really don't like Windows at all.
The shift away from Personal Computers at home, to mobile devices has revealed just how annoying windows is.
Usage of PC's in the home is way down - something to get the homework done on, or to type up a quick word document. Everything is going to be done on a fondle slab.
My guess - Microsoft will be forced to extend Windows 10 support for at least another 2 years beyond the current support end date.
An iPad or similar is adequate to an awful lot of home use. And a damn sight better at it than a chuggy ad laden brick.
How many peope need or want the beige brick or awful budget laptop that takes 10 mins to bolt and 4 hours to update?
That experience is killing PC sales and it's not hard to see why.
I have a w10 PC at home that is not compatible with w11.
I also have a w11 laptop that I use for work.
Frankly, if I thought it was worth the effort and cost, I'd change the laptop to w10.
Imo, w11 is a pain in the arse - it does nothing for my "productivity" and offers little to nil in "must have's"
As for edge .... Jeeze, don't get me started.....
I've got a Core i7 (nehalem) from like 2011. I have two similar rigs. They've got decent video cards, lots of RAM, NVME drives installed in PCI-E slots with adapters (M.2 IS PCI-E) and you can pry that hardware from my stiff, dead, fingers. OS and software vendors don't dictate to me.
I make the most of it. I use Linux, compile most everything (the "guts", system libraries and anything where performance matters) with CPU specific optimizations and without "hardening flags" and stack canaries, and CPU crippling mitigations disabled in my kernel config. I play graphically rich games at 1920x1080... good enough for me.
The only problem I'm running into now, is AVX instructions creeping in, without CPU tests and alternate code paths. The only place this is a problem is games that I can't compile and most devs still don't do that. If I buy a new game and it's got AVX instructions baked in, I just send it back for refund. Shrug. At least some system requirements are starting to list it. "AVX instructions required". I appreciate that, it saves me from wasting time and bandwidth.
I have to get on this soon (or it's going to cost twice as much) but I still feel like I'm in "why?" mode.
>> "It's a shame because there's nothing particularly wrong with Windows 11"
Apart from lack of control over your own PC, the unwanted snooping and telemetry baked into the OS, adverts on Start menu and lock screen, home users being the "QA" department for Micros~1, false hardware requirements, and forced "AI", there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Windows 11 itself is finally starting to look quite polished. At least it does once I've switched off all those 'experimental' features that trade a great user experience in favour of pushing Bing search, news results and 365 at every opportunity.
It's a shame that I have to run a reg file with 20+ tweaks to switch all that junk off, just so I can use Windows 11 as an operating system for my apps, instead of a platform for Bing ads.
I ran Windows 11 on a VM for about a month or so, then went back to 10 because 11 ran like a dog.
Biggest annoyance for me is the right-click context menus in File Explorer, they've hidden many of the options so it now takes 2 clicks to get to them rather than one and the reg hack to restore it to classic settings didn't work for me. Didn't investigate any further due to the performance issues (My server is pretty old so although I could allocate more cores etc to the VM it was still below the recommended spec)
Install StartAllBack - it's well worth the small cost of it. Gives you a proper start menu with options, and restores the right-click context menu to how it should be. Like it's been mentioned, it's a shame you need to run reg hacks and install 3rd party software to get windows to do what it should be doing natively (or at least giving the option of doing natively).
The worst part of it all with those Windows 11 requirements? They are not even requirements at all.
I do understand (somewhat) that some older CPU's aren't supported when the security of the system is depending on them. Like the VBS and HVCI. But Windows 11 doesn't enforce any of it.
Because I have a motherboard that I sometimes upgrade the firmware to the latest version. It sometimes forgets all settings and reset them to default. Some of those settings are the "required" things for Windows 11 like TPM that are disabled. Windows 11 just boots as normal. I even doesn't notice it. Only a small triangle is shown in Windows Security that some things are off.
Even better, I have a ARM based Windows 11 machine that doesn't even support the required things. I always get a message that for instance "Kernel Isolation" is off that every Windows 11 system should have enabled when delivered with it.
It is even documented here:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-security/
So much for those requirements...
It's getting to the point that upgrading Windows really isn't buying anything new. It really hasn't since Windows 7. I've been running KDE Plasma on Debian stable for the last several years, and I'm not finding any real downsides, except.
It seems INTEL cannot create any new hardware platform without requiring brand new drivers for every bit of chippery in the box, from the GPU, to the NIC, to the Wifi, to the sound system, to the CPU, to the USB chips to the ... Sadly for a modicum of stability on a platform this seems to require the latest version of Windows, and a slew of bleeding edge drivers, or experimental kernel's on various linux platforms. If AMD can ever get any market share their compatibility seems to be much better.
Further this obscene need to have "firmware" built into a device driver is pathetic. ANY chip that leaves the factory should have a rom with a basic firmware that is modestly functional and can act as a default. This doesn't mean you cant have dynamically loadable more up-to-date "firmware", but the chip should at least operate without some customized upload code feeding it bits at boot. It is pathetic and stupid.
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