back to article Welcome to 2024: Volkswagen really is putting ChatGPT into cars as a gabby copilot

Volkswagen says it intends to inject ChatGPT into its vehicles in Europe this year, allowing drivers to ask questions about life, the universe, and everything, and have them answered by the software, maybe. Announced to coincide with the CES show in Las Vegas this week, the German automaker said the OpenAI chatbot will be …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's VW on my 'do not by' list

    along with Tesla (for different reasons).

    I don't use any Voice Assistant. I tried Alexa and gave up in total frustration after a few days. Dumb is being an overstatement and with VW's already crappy software, I shudder to think how bad it will all get with their 'gabby copilot' ruling the roost.

    These bits of software are not AI. When they exhibit some recognisable intelligence then maybe.

    1. Kobus Botes
      Devil

      Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

      Having owned twelve VW's since 1977 (plus 2 Citroën C2's), modern/new VW's (including almost every other new brand) disappeared off my buying list when manufacturers started with the nonsense of removing most (if not all) buttons and switches, replacing it with a touchscreen that have to be navigated whjist driving ("wave your arms and hope", as per DNA). It is beyond me how the EU (and US), who are so safety conscious, ever allowed such vehicles on the road.

      And don't get me started on those stupid/ very bright headlights that cannot be dimmed, but which use some device to just lower the lights in order not to blind oncoming traffic. Except that, if the vehicle is slightly higher than you, or crest a hill or goes over a speed-bump, you get the full blast in your eyes, temporaril;y blinding you. Driving such a vehicle is even worse, as I discovered having rented a Toyota RAV 4; since the beams are very sharply cut off, there is no bleed onto the verge, to illuminate dangers lurking there. Traffic signs have also become invisible when on low-beam, due to the same no-bleed properties.

      Luckily I have now reached the age where my current vehicles are probably the last ones I will own, as I will be too old to drive when they reach their end of life.

      Where is the greybeard icon? (Oh well, this one will have to do).

      1. munnoch Silver badge

        Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

        | And don't get me started on those stupid/ very bright headlights

        I don't know how those things became legal. The difference between a car with "ordinary" halogens or even HID's and LED search lights is overwhelming. You just have to squint and hope for the best until the behemoth going the other way has passed.

        I'll probably need one more car before I get my bus pass but I have zero interest in any of the tablets-on-wheels made in the last 10 years.

      2. Gene Cash Silver badge

        People have pushed back, and VW is installing real buttons

        VW Is Putting Buttons Back in Cars Because People Complained Enough

        https://www.thedrive.com/news/vw-is-putting-buttons-back-in-cars-because-people-complained-enough

        Refreshed Mk8 Golf With Real Buttons Will Be Revealed in January

        https://www.thedrive.com/news/refreshed-mk8-golf-with-real-buttons-will-be-revealed-in-january

        VW CEO Admits ‘Frustrating’ No-Button Interiors Have Damaged VW’s Reputation

        https://www.thedrive.com/news/vw-ceo-admits-frustrating-golf-id-4-interiors-did-a-lot-of-damage

        (I don't have a car, VW or otherwise, so I have no dog in this race - and no, I would not buy a touchscreen-only vehicle)

        1. Kobus Botes

          Re: People have pushed back, and VW is installing real buttons

          @Gene Cash

          Mmmm... Inte

          resting. I saw (a couple of months ago) that Hyundai had either returned buttons and switches, or had taken the decision not to get rid of it in the first place.

          Hopefully sanity will prevail.

          Thanks for that.

          1. A2Wx8
            Thumb Up

            Re: People have pushed back, and VW is installing real buttons

            My Kia has tacticle buttons for all the radio/HVAC functions as well as the heated/power accessories. A friend of mine has a brand new Corvette that's the same way. It seems that at least some automakers are slowly starting to listen to the people who sensibly say "a context sensitive interface is not a good idea in a device where you can't look at said interface while operating it." I can reach over and press my HVAC controls by memory, I don't want to have to rummage three levels deep in a touchscreen to change the settings. I can tweak things via the touchscreen, but I don't have to.

            Being some customer satisfaction polls have had terrible touchscreen interfaces as buyers' leading complaints in new cars for several years running, I'm hoping manufacturers listen to common sense and return buttons to where buttons ought to be.

      3. LybsterRoy Silver badge

        Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

        Totally agree about the headlights. I have a Skoda Octavia and it has "automatic" headlights. Trying to get them on full beam when wanted and dipped when wanted was a major struggle until I found the option to turn light assist off. Now they do what I want when I want.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

          "Now they do what I want when I want."

          Not only that, you can predict what will happen a lot better than any automated system. Car behind a corner? Car behind a hill? Dipped beams it is. And it's actually a dipped beam, not pseudo-dipped which "modifies light pattern" but still glares like full beam to on-coming car for a while. Long enough to make driver blind: Adjusting beam after that is meaningless, the deed has been done.

          Here in North we have twisty roads with a lot of hills and no street lights and 6 hours of daylight in winter. Very, very difficult environment for any automated headlight system.

          Even worse, most of those roads are salted and lights don't have any washing mechanism: No matter what kind of ligh pattern it had 10 miles ago (with some traffic), now it produces only glare ... if anything.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

          " Skoda Octavia and it has "automatic" headlights. "

          I have too in mine. But with old Octavias it just meant that you have daylight running lights on when you turn the ignition on. That's actually useful. Having to fight with stupid automation is totally something else.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

      Everyone commenting on El Reg seems to be focussing on the negatives and ignoring the possibilities for an AI Volkswagen to be voiced William Daniels along with some 80s theme music and a red LED chaser on the bonnet.

      And a series of ads starring the car and David Hasselhoff....

      You were hoping for more than nostalgia?

      1. Blue Pumpkin

        Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

        Yes but how long before it starts singing "Share and enjoy" ?

      2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: That's VW on my 'do not by' list

        But did KITT serve up ads, and/or data mine you?

    3. DS999 Silver badge

      Easy way to avoid it

      Don't pay the monthly/yearly service fees for the useless doodads like voice assistant, navigation, etc.

      I don't pay for it in my Audi ($399/year) and don't miss it at all - I had it the first year for free but never used it. Since Audi doesn't support remote start (supposedly because of German law, though why that should impact cars sold in the US who knows) about all you can do with it other than the above is lock/unlock doors and open/close windows anyway.

      All I need from my car's entertainment system is a radio, interface for the stuff that doesn't have buttons (which should be nothing you'd ever need while driving!) and support for Carplay and the Android equivalent. I'm sure all cars will support some sort of "AI" interface in a couple years, but that doesn't mean you have to use it. Fortunately due to the need to pay for a data plan for cellular connectivity, automakers can't offer this stuff for free. So don't pay for it, and then you won't get the automaker equivalent of Clippy dancing in front of you helping to be helpful!

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Easy way to avoid it

        support for Carplay and the Android equivalent

        Personally, I wouldn't trust either of those for a moment. But YMMV.

        1. DS999 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Easy way to avoid it

          Why? If you have an iPhone or an Android, claiming you "wouldn't trust" the car interface for either is laughable. Once you're carrying around one of their devices everywhere you go, what possible additional privacy or security issues are going to come from using it for hands free talking/texting, driving directions and playing music?

          Now if you're one of the Luddites carrying around a flipphone that can only talk and SMS I guess you're excused, but I got news for you if you think that makes you less trackable.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Easy way to avoid it

            "security issues "

            Really? In addtion of everything Android already has, you have all the problems (lack of security) car manufacturer has managed to create. And car systems are at IoT -level in both security and privacy: They don't exist. Even in EU and US isn't any better.

            While Google sells everything they know about you, now you've added car manufacturer to the equation. Example: Phone knows where you are, but satnav, i.e. car manufacturer, knows where you want to go. Totally different level of knowledge and you apparently believe it's the same thing. It isn't.

            "but I got news for you if you think that makes you less trackable."

            It does, a lot. To have any precision you need at least 3 receivers. Yard -level precision drops to tens of yards and eventually to miles or more if the phone operator has only one receiver in the area, typical to rural areas. Also, here in North (EU) phone operators aren't allowed to sell that data to anyone, which means no tracking in practice. Not for slinging ads, at least.

  2. Graham Dawson

    Just another reason why I'm not buying any car built after 2010.

    1. Atomic Duetto

      There’s a naughties joke in there somewhere…

      As for VW marketings spin that “ChatGPT does not gain access to any vehicle data; questions and answers are deleted immediately to ensure the highest possible level of data protection”. There are squillions of TDI that would like to have a word with the regulator about CO2 emissions, depending on where they are of course…

      GDPR my arse

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        "As for VW marketings spin that “ChatGPT does not gain access to any vehicle data; questions and answers are deleted immediately"

        They forgot to add: "for now" and "in the car" (as the remote side will log everything, of course).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        " “ChatGPT does not gain access to any vehicle data; questions and answers are deleted immediately to ensure the highest possible level of data protection”."

        ..... and if anyone believes that, I've a bridge I could sell to them, really cheap!

  3. David 132 Silver badge
    WTF?

    Thank God. Finally!!!

    I have been waiting my whole life for a car that has a markov-chaining large language model built into it! This will transform my daily commute beyond recognition! Truly, the future is here and it is now!

    ...

    Oh, here's Nursey with my dried frog pills. Gotta go now.

  4. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
    Pint

    Good Moaning

    I am your little tank, would you care to invade France & stop off at Café René in Nouvion or trundle into Poland?

    Icon - Its late I've had a few beers.

    1. seven of five Silver badge

      Re: Good Moaning

      Ha. Given the state current Volkswagens are delivered, any Invasion could probably been cut short on the next onramp.

  5. jokerscrowbar

    Nein danke

    Hey Ida wheres your off button? Thanks bye.

  6. sarusa Silver badge

    So sad, too bad

    Sadly, this really is the best thing VW has had to offer lately. Being a Tesla clone piece of shite doesn't make me any more or less likely to buy one.

    And I say that as someone who owned 3 VW Bugs a loooong time ago.

  7. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    "Generative AI should be available and accessible to everyone"

    Available and accessible, okay. Forced upon, not okay.

    I do not want that thing listening to me all the time. Car makers already have a pretty dismal history when it comes to electronic security, I'd rather not find out years down the line that PussyIFarted has gained the ability of simulating entire car conversations because of data scraping.

    If, and that is a big if, I buy a car (from any automaker, VW is just the first - the rest will follow) that has this thing in it, I want a button (or a setting) to turn it off.

    The day we have truly autonomous cars that I can hop into, tell it to take me somewhere, and then read a book or watch a film, then fine. Give me Internet access and do whatever you want, the world is my oyster and I'm happy. But today, when driving, I concentrate on the road. I have a small slab of toxic metals that connects to the Intartubes, it is enough when I need it.

  8. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Message to marketing depts if they are reading (doubt it)

    This is not a feature which attracts, it is a feature which repels. There are only two kinds of customers, those which couldn't care less about this feature and those which will be more willing to look at other makes of car because of this feature. That's it. Just make it use Android Auto or Car Play and let the phone do the assistant part (or not, if the customer doesn't want it).

    Just like TVs with nice hardware and terrible software and the customer ends up plugging something better into the HDMI port.

    1. ArrZarr Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Message to marketing depts if they are reading (doubt it)

      Sadly, Dan, I've met my parents.

      Both of whom would be wowed by this and show it off to me as some cool feature.

      Not that they're likely to buy a VW these days as they are reaping the economic benefits of being upper middle class pensioners.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Message to marketing depts if they are reading (doubt it)

      It only repels people like us, to the average person it makes a product look more technologically up to date, even if it isn't something they would use. They wouldn't buy a TV without any smarts either - they would figure it is some bargain basement five year old product. They would be more likely to buy a car with "AI" than one that advertised "our car has no smarts at all, it just provides an interface for Carplay etc." because they'd assume that was a cut down product they should get a discount on.

      So no matter how much I want to buy a TV sized "monitor" that just has a few HDMI inputs for my Tivo and Apple TV I'm gonna be buying an LG OLED with the stupid interface later this year, and avoid connecting it to wifi to keep its ability to annoy me to a minimum.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Message to marketing depts if they are reading (doubt it)

        "to the average person it makes a product look more technologically up to date,"

        You mean like the brief rise to fame of (e.g.) "fuzzy logic" was supposed to do?

        1. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: Message to marketing depts if they are reading (doubt it)

          I'm pretty sure "fuzzy logic" never left the technosphere to be something average people heard about like AI has.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Message to marketing depts if they are reading (doubt it)

            And fuzzy logic has useful real-world applications in various sorts of control systems.

  9. David M

    Oh dear

    I recently acquired a newish VW, and I'm already fed up with the amount of unnecessary technology in it, complete with very poorly-designed user interfaces, and so-called 'assistance' features that don't work properly and just end up being distracting, which is the last thing you want when you're driving. I don't want to think about how much worse the driving experience would be with an AI assistant trying to 'help'. It's tempting to say that I'll never buy another VW, but I fear that by the time I need another car, all manufacturers will have gone the same way.

  10. Mike 137 Silver badge

    "It may stop some people fiddling with their phones while behind the wheel"

    It's been known for a long time that engaging in conversation while driving reduces situational awareness (it's not just using a phone that contributes to this). So yet again, another step towards poor driving performance -- ultimately justifying "autonomous" vehicles. If we can get human driving standards low enough, the AI will look as it if it wins. Constant distraction of any kind from the act of driving is one simple way of achieving this.

    1. xyz Silver badge

      Re: "It may stop some people fiddling with their phones while behind the wheel"

      Perfect example is my missus... On the M25 heading to the M1 from the M4, in full hands free gabbing on how her day went. Next thing she knows is that she's at the M10 junction.

      If I phone her now and she's driving I hang up.

      1. Big_Boomer
        Facepalm

        Re: "It may stop some people fiddling with their phones while behind the wheel"

        "Perfect example is my missus... On the M25 heading to the M1 from the M4, in full hands free gabbing on how her day went. Next thing she knows is that she's at the M10 junction."

        WOW!! Time Travel. The M10 hasn't even been built yet. <LOL> ;-)

        1. Falmari Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: "It may stop some people fiddling with their phones while behind the wheel"

          @Big_Boomer "WOW!! Time Travel. The M10 hasn't even been built yet. <LOL> ;-)"

          Time travel must have been a standard feature on 20th century motorcycles as I regularly rode on the M10 last century. :)

          The M10 opened in 1959 down graded to non motorway 50 years later. It even has its own Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M10_motorway_(Great_Britain) ;)

          1. Big_Boomer

            Re: "It may stop some people fiddling with their phones while behind the wheel"

            "The M10 opened in 1959 down graded to non motorway 50 years later"

            Quite right, my apologies. I should have known as I used to drive past it on the M1 many years ago.

            I can only blame senility and an overloaded brain <LOL>

        2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: "It may stop some people fiddling with their phones while behind the wheel"

          You might have missed the gist of the story...

  11. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    The most chilling phrase in that report was "as standard". If they were to take a leaf out of the BMW script and make it pay to unlock it wouldn't be a problem. The same applies to all the rest of this S/W junk in cars.

    I wonder if any of them will grok that there's real money to be made by a subscription to lock it instead.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      " If they were to take a leaf out of the BMW script and make it pay to unlock it wouldn't be a problem. "

      Sure. If not unlocked, it will only listen in, but not say anything...

  12. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Terminator

    Stop calling me Dave

    "Computer, we're going to run into problems"

    "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that"

  13. Big_Boomer

    "Computer"

    Whenever I see someone talking at their mobile phone it always reminds me of Scotty picking up the mouse in Star Trek 4, and talking to it. <LOL> Personally I have never felt the need to use voice control of anything. I can see it being extremely useful to the disabled and the blind but for the rest of use there simply are not that many uses for it. Everyone I know who has a voice control system seems to use it extensively for a few weeks, and then the novelty fades.

  14. pip25
    FAIL

    "The highest possible level of data protection"

    Cute phrase, looks great on marketing materials. But VW has absolutely zero information on whether and how OpenAI will use those queries and/or answers it supposedly deletes right after processing them.

  15. ChrisElvidge Silver badge

    PairD / ChatPwC

    Don't these consultancies realise that if AI can do their job, we don't need them? (Actually we don't need them anyway.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: PairD / ChatPwC

      Like all LLMs, however, PairD isn't perfect and can generate false information. Employees were warned that the system could make up facts,

      Not if - sounds like it already is doing their jobs.

  16. Arthur the cat Silver badge

    The ghost of Douglas Adams

    … is laughing his head off between saying "told you so".

    1. monty75

      Re: The ghost of Douglas Adams

      He’s not a ghost. He’s just spending a couple of decades dead for tax purposes.

  17. DJ
    Coat

    File this under

    Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

    Been driving VAG vehicles since 1985. After learning this, there won't be another.

    Sadly, what one car builder does, another seems keen to do as well.

    Does anyone honestly see any of this as improving things?

    (other than profit margins)

    Sent from my touchpad whilst driving and eating a sticky-bun.

    Mine's the one without a VW key in the pocket. --->

  18. Nick Sticks
    Meh

    Can it reach out, though?

    I laughed at this bit, we've now got apps (is Ida an app?) "reaching out".

    "We're told that when you wake up Ida and talk to it, it will figure out whether you're asking it to perform an action specific to your vehicle – such as adjusting the aircon, or looking up a destination. If it can handle the job itself, it'll do so. If not, **it will reach out to Cerence servers**, which may in future ask ChatGPT to solve the problem and generate an answer."

    1. NeilPost

      Re: Can it reach out, though?

      A CarPlay or Android Auto App would at least be far be better than fucking about losing your infotainment back to the car’s built in stuff and trying to get your CarPlay/Android auto back on screen whilst driving.

  19. TheRealRoland
    Terminator

    "Ha! See? Told you. Should have turned left back there. But nooo..." - nag system powered by AI

  20. zaphy42

    Following my experience with my wife's ID.5, any car from VW with AI software will be a hard-pass for me, because they can't even get non-AI software working well.

    The current software on the ID.5 (which is pretty up to date as far as I can tell) is an awful bug-ridden mess and the infotainment system is awful and unintuitive. Switching from my Kia e-Niro to this was a major downgrade.

    Just an example of the bugs include:

    Voice control thinking you've spoken to it randomly, even when nobody has actually spoken anything. This is actually a distraction.

    Child locks randomly turning themselves on and off.

    Doors lock randomly when sat in the driving seat, often after you've just unlocked them from inside the car.

    Rear door locks randomly not working - there has been a software recall for that that appears to have not done anything.

    Constant "updates" for the selected user profile settings requiring you to press ok - I know there is a bugfix for this that the dealers can apply for this, but the dealers are mostly unaware of this.

    Automated headlights randomly work or don't work. I just use manual.

    Android Auto seems to be an afterthought

    Satnav chooses some very odd routes sometimes.

    My major bugbear is the infotainment system and settings. It's truly awful. It's a nightmare to find even simple settings and some stuff like the Air Con settings really shouldn't be part of the infotainment. I prefer actual buttons and dials and find pressing the infotainment screen actually distracts from driving when I want the aircon on.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like