back to article US reportedly pushed ASML to cancel chipmaking kit for China early

Washington reportedly pressed chipmaking equipment giant ASML to cancel some deliveries to China ahead of updated restrictions coming into force, but the company itself is declining to confirm if this is the case. The Dutch manufacturer is caught up in the "chip wars" between the US and China, as it makes some of the most …

  1. Zibob Bronze badge

    Team america

    World police!

    That's all I hear when this sort of thing comes up. No jurisdiction, should have no sway, but no good old team america keeping the world safe whether we like it or not, *You will follow our rules*.

    So who is in control in Denmark? The Danish or the Americans.

    1. MiguelC Silver badge

      Re: Team america

      ASML comes from the Netherlands.

      Anyhow, the answer seems to be "America, Fuck yeah!"

      1. Zibob Bronze badge

        Re: Team america

        Very correct, I confused dutch and danish, sorry.

        But other than that, the point stands.

        I do not like this idea where as long as you make something deemed important by the U.S. they just defacto get to tell your country what to do with its companies.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Team america

          Denmark isn't real

          1. CheesyTheClown

            Re: Team america

            And America needs to buy Greenland from them

      2. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: Team america

        ASML uses parts sourced from companies all over the world to make their equipment, and the US could theoretically sanction those companies and prevent them from making deliveries to TSMC - which would stop TSMC from making ALL deliveries and not just those to China.

        So whether or not you believe trying to delay China's progress in the semi industry is a good or bad thing, it isn't a situation where the US is pushing around a completely independent EU company that has no reliance on US technology to make its products.

        1. Zolko Silver badge

          Re: Team america

          ASML uses parts sourced from companies all over the world [...] stop TSMC from making ALL deliveries and not just those to China

          let's assume that you have mixed ASML with TSMC, what does that mean: that the only way to stop ASML to ship products containing US parts to – continental – China is to stop them shipping products anywhere in the world, including the island "China" that is Taiwan. Which would ruin the entire US economy based on Nvidia, Qualcomme, Apple, Facebook, AWS, Google, M$oft ... so no luck.

          Which means that the only option remaining for the US is to bully their "partners ". Who suddenly realise that they're actually only "vassals ". Which some might resent as "negative emotions " towards the US nomenclatura and "might " not like that

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: Team america

            No I have not mixed up TSMC and ASML. ASML's products which they sell to TSMC and which TSMC uses to make chips for pretty much every western company contain a lot of pieces made in the USA, as well as stuff made all over Europe, and in Japan. Probably pieces made in Taiwan too (and no, Taiwan is not "China" - just ask anyone from Taiwan)

            1. fg_swe Bronze badge

              TSMC, Taiwan

              This company and this nation have been so successful because they were allowed to operate inside the NATO+JP+SK+ANZAC domain. Because they adopted business and government methods from this domain. Because major corporations (from Apple to Bosch) from said domain trust them. So NATO was extremely generous to Taiwan and TSMC.

              TSMC would be nothing without NATO-sourced machinery, materials, knowledge and high end services. For example, the mirrors from ZEISS build on more than 100 years of German optical engineering and science. It is generous to share this technology and we certainly do not do this with military foes.

              https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Zeiss_(Unternehmen)#Carl_Zeiss_1846%E2%80%931945

      3. fg_swe Bronze badge

        Team NATO

        A war in Taiwan would affect all of NATO+JP+SK+ANZAC. German Jäger planes have already been deployed to Japan(!) in order to reduce the japanese fear of the coming war. Likewise, German frigates have been sailing to Japan.

        https://www.flugrevue.de/militaer/rapid-pacific-flug-aus-singapur-deutsche-eurofighter-erstmals-in-japan/

        It is in the best interest of the Netherlands and the rest of said alliance to dial down the flow of technology to China. More technology -> more/better weapons -> more appetite for war.

        Free trade has not reduced the likelihood of war, quite the opposite. America is merely coordinating what is in the best interest of the entire alliance and I think also in the best interest of the Chinese, who are led by warmongers at the moment.

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Presumably the blocked exports from China are going to have to be filled by production elsewhere so ASML's sales just shift to wherever that is.

    1. Zibob Bronze badge

      As I understand it, there is no production elsewhere. ASML have the ownership over the tech that make 7nm and lower.

      Though cannon have made their 5nm process and its completely different, so maybe there, but that is nothing to do with ASML and in direct competition if it works at scale.

    2. tooltalk

      ASML still has billions worth of backlog and, as the article points out correctly, China wasn't their biggest customer until very recently as they rushed to beat America's sanction.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

    Is there a lawyer in the house with expertise in international jurisprudence.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

      That's why we Brexited, so Washington couldn't tell us what to do.

      Now advanced British semiconductor machinery can now be exported to anywhere in the empire that needs a new Babbage engine

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

        "Brexit" is the new Godwin.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

          Just remember what happened to Godwinson.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

            He failed to negotiate a deal with Norway and was responsible for bringing Britain into Europe?

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

              Or rather, bringing a bit of Europe into Britain

    2. fg_swe Bronze badge

      NATO

      The Dutch live under a common security umbrella and have enjoyed 70 years of peace. They can buy the latest weapons from all over NATO(e.g. F16 fighters or Leopard tanks). That is why they cooperate in defence export measures.

      A war in Taiwan would affect them too, much worse than ASML export limits.

    3. Persona

      Re: I hadn't realized Washington had jurisdiction over a Dutch manufacturer

      There is no such thing as international law as there is no corresponding international enforcement. At best it's a code of conduct used to bolster a countries reputation and hence its trading relationships.

  4. deevee

    ASML should tell the USA they aren't bound to follow US laws, and to stop telling them what to do, and how to operate their business.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      And the USA will say they can't use Cymer EUV light sources, or sell or borrow in dollars, or sell to any customer that wants to use dollars

      Or ASML could simply add 10% to the price Intel are paying for their next round of machines

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "ASML should tell the USA they aren't bound to follow US laws, and to stop telling them what to do, and how to operate their business."

      Yeah, that'll work.

      ASML's supply chain and systems integration is critically dependent on US companies. And suppliers who also fundamentally rely on US components/technology. If Uncle Sam stopped any of those companies exporting to ASML, ASML would be fucked. The Dutch government and ASML know this. Which explains why they won't pay any attention to your advice.

      Besides that, ASML is doing just fine without needing to sell their EUV technology to China. As this article points out.

      1. fg_swe Bronze badge

        It is much more complicated. The Durch are part of NATO and support reasonable defence measures. ASML depends on suppliers from all over NATO(e.g. light sources and mirrors from TRUMPF and ZEISS) and friendly nations. Most importantly, ASML depends on common security, as provided by NATO and friends. Business only works as long as there is a secure environment.

        The Chicoms have demonstrated very clearly that they are willing to wage an all-out war against Taiwan. That would cost many lives and disturb business 1000x more than these sanctions.

        Doing global business at all cost(such as arming a dangerous tyranny) is a crazy idea which comes from the banker m4fia out of Canary Wharf and Wall Street.

  5. RedHulk

    That's not gonna end well for EU

    So the US is telling a EU company how to do their business. How will it end? Well, the Chinese, I assume are pretty p*, so they will do their best to develop the technology themself and then they don't need the technology from the EU.

    1. fg_swe Bronze badge

      Not America Telling

      America is merely coordinating a measure which is in the best interest of NATO+JP+SK+ANZAC.

      Only communists want to further arm an aggressive communist power.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Not America Telling

        >Only communists want to further arm an aggressive communist power.

        But I still want cheap trainers so Vietnam is OK ?

        After all, America likes winners

  6. RedGreen925 Bronze badge

    So when you have them lined up around the block to buy your stuff with sometimes years long waits to get it. Just how is it supposed to reduce the cash coming in, is the parasite corporation somehow going to become some kind loving organization giving breaks on the price they charge for the waiting?? I do not see it happening in my lifetime.

    1. fg_swe Bronze badge

      Well

      If you do not like the "parasite Dutch", you can always roll your own, communist 1500nm projector.

  7. markrand
    Flame

    This has got nothing at all to do with national security or defence. It is entirely due to the trade war that the USA is conducting against China.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Waking up from coma

      Not sure you've paid attention to the news last year but Winnie the Pooh keeps telling everyone (including Biden in SF) that he will not leave it to the next CCP leader to retake Taiwan (by force if necessary). I mean "liberate". Coincidentally he's also firing any general in the people's "liberation" army, any of his ministers, any of his CCP colleagues who caution that China will not prevail against the free world. So buckle up. Taiwan elections are just a few weeks away.

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