Asahi's Fedora remix dazzles and baffles on Apple Silicon The Asahi Linux team has released the first version of its Fedora 39 remix for Apple Silicon Macs – at least the first couple of generations. The team announced the release on Mastodon. Asahi's Hector Martin gave a talk at the recent Ubuntu Summit, underlining that Asahi is not only an edition of Fedora – there are Asahi …
Given that MacOS provides a full BSD userland, why bother with all the hassle to run Linux on a machine? The only thing I can think of would be better Docker performance, but you'll soon hit hardware performance problems long before the virtualisation overhead causes problems.
I can understand the project which is doing it because it can, but anyone who wants Linux on ARM should not buy a Mac to get it.
All I need for unix on MacOS is a Terminal. I can even run in non-GUI single-user mode if I'm so inclined.
None of the Linux GUIs I've seen are any better than MacOS and most are a lot worse. There's stuff I don't like about MacOS, especially the dumbing down towards IOS but most things have been pretty consistent over the last 40 years, which is more than can be said for the competition.
"None of the Linux GUIs I've seen are any better than MacOS and most are a lot worse."
In my best Boris Johnson voice - bollocks.
I've just been on a Mac with Ventura on it, and the user wants the default mail client to be Outlook. If I want to do this on Linux, regardless of the GUI, it's basically go to Settings, Default Apps, do what you need.
MacOS Ventura? Nah mate. Open up the Mail client, then tell it the default application should be Outlook. At least, I think that's what I need to do. I'm unable to confirm it because the Mail client wants you to add a mail account to it, which is no help when the mail account in question is a business Office365 account which the Mail client doesn't seem to support.
So you can keep your Fisher Price computer if you think that the Mac is the last word in ease of use, because it bloody isn't.
Is Lookout an upgrade over the Apple client?
I use Thunderbird and have not suffered from the problems that you are describing. I have never used the Apple Email client in the almost 15 years of using OSX/MacOS as my personal device.
If I want to move to Linux or (shudder) Windows, then I can take my T'Bird data with me. That is a big plus in my eyes.
Well in a business environment, unfortunately, it is.
The issue the user had/has really isn't whether or not one client is better than the other. Their issue is when they're preparing documents in Word they want to share it via email. Word allows this, but opens the default client - which is Mail - and as I said the Mail client doesn't really seem to support Office 365. They want to use Outlook, which is there, but it doesn't get open because it's not the default. And the default can only be changed via the Mail client which requires you to add an account before you do anything else - and it doesn't seem to support Office365. Which is a fucking mammoth oversight on Apple's part.
But really how is it an upgrade over the standard "Go to settings, set the default" that you must go to the Mail client and set the default application there?
but most things have been pretty consistent over the last 40 years
They've boiled your frog:
They do look nice...
A 13" i5-1340P (up to 4.6GHz, 4+8 cores), comes with with: 8GB (1x8GB) Memory, 256GB Storage, Battery - 55Wh, WiFi 6E and Windows 11 Home
Then I added: 1 x DisplayPort (2nd Gen), 1 x USB-A, 2 x USB-C
Total: £1,059
Or I could buy a 13" Macbook Air with an M2, 8gig of memory and 256GB storage and a similar number of ports for £1149.
They seem about similar build quality, specs and price to me?
edit: I didn't read far enough, the framework ports are TB4 too if the chipset supports it.
You could do that, but it's really not comparable hardware to either the Framework or Mac, is it? Not that it's a bad laptop. But for one thing, it's 15in with 1080 vs the Framework's 13in, 2256x1504 screen and the Air's 13.6in 2556x1664 screen, both of which will be far nicer screens to use.
After 50 (years old) the smaller screens (eg. 13in) are too small for accomodation (in my experience). Smartphone screens are really way too tiny. I have to increase font size on most websites (zoom 110%, 120%, sometimes more) and so, a larger screen, even with lower resolution (eg. 16in, 1080p), beats smaller ones with higher res. in usability. That particular Ideapad though, the RAM is not upgradable, which really sucks IMHO.
From my real world use, the battery life alone makes one of the M-series laptops miles better than anything I've come across in Intel-land. When I'm using my M2 Air, I charge it once every two days, or a day and a half if I'm pushing it a bit harder. I've had to train myself out of automatically wanting to plug it in once it hits 25% battery.
Some of that is down to tight software/hardware integration, and the battery life tests I've seen with Asahi show some reduction compared to the same hardware under macOS, but I would expect that to improve. And even with that reduction, it's still great.
As someone who uses both MacOS and KDE on Linux every day, I generally find that I'm going to gripe about how I wish that Apple either did or allowed X feature from KDE or why KDE couldn't do Y as well as MacOS does. At least, neither is Windows or Gnome, I guess, but the Mac GUI is pretty locked down, and KDE a rabbit-hole of options that gets frustrating when trying to remember where some obscure setting is. And some of the things that Apple locks down are just plain silly.[1] I have probably spent more time at a terminal window looking up obscure[2] command to do a thing that really just should be an easy option on a Mac than I ever have on Linux. In some regards, it might be a smart move on Apple's part to restrict certain things to people who are comfortable at a CLI, but it's often just frustrating to deal with.
[1] For example, is it really that hard for Apple to make it so you can set how often Time Machine backups run, and when? One of the first things I have to do with any new Mac is turn that thing off, and then write a cronjob calling it to run once a day at 4am.
[2] ie, the sort of commands I only run when setting up a system or if something breaks somewhere down the line
From one standpoint, it makes sense to lock your average joe out of certain things but allow those who are good at bash/zsh to run fairly wild, but there are certainly some that make no sense to not give easy configuration options to. I use both Mac and Linux daily, and it seems that Linux has minor annoyances more often, and usually as a result of there *not* being some cohesive overarching UI standard, but with the Mac it's no headaches until something *big* happens (or I can't easily do something I want) that requires setting time aside to find out how to do it.
Running any platform comes with compromises. There are enough things that don't run natively on Linux, and where WINE is nowhere near reliable enough, and reaching a point in my life where I want less regular fuss, I broke down and bought the Mac. But it comes with compromises of its own, and any OS choice really is dependent on what one absolutely needs from it and what BS they're willing to tolerate.
Yeah, I mean, as long as your digestive regularity is not affected, hair loss, or cross-eyedness (and other aging-related processes), then go right ahead. A lot of "new" tech seems to be designed for much younger folks (than me) with eagle-sharp eyes, simian dexterity, and a need for constant distraction (eg. animated GUIs, with sound effects, and notifications) and so, mainly, I like to be able to easily turn all of that off for an age-appropriate computational experience. This machine here is a no eye-candy operation!
macos' Finder jumped a fence into outright irritating when they turned the icons for media files into animations, complete with associated random burst of soundtrack, when you hover over one. That is something you're almost guaranteed to do by accident more often than you do deliberately in grid view.
I've yet to find a smart interface smart enough to be helpful. Its job is to sit there and wait for me to explicitly tell it to do something, efficiently.
If your pet peeve is that (macos/Windows/KDE/Gnome) doesn't do it the way (reverse order of above) does, you can either change the desktop, or change desktop. Because the corporates make the first option hard to nigh-impossible, my choice is FOSS, edge cases excepted.
You've hit the nail on the head. I don't mind Apple making it simple. I don't mind Apple making it harder for ordinary users to mess things up by locking them down a bit. Lord knows, as resident Mac expert it's probably saved me a lot of distraught phone calls from friends and relatives.
But I do mind when it when Apple makes it significantly harder to fix something if it goes wrong, even for knowledgeable and highly-technical users.
Case in point: cloud storage. A few versions ago Apple implemented an API for providing cloud storage seamlessly in the Finder. This means that the likes of Dropbox, OneDrive, etc can write apps implementing their system without having to do weirdo kernel extensions. It makes the experience more consistent, so, for example, if you want to make a file or folder always local, no matter what provider you're using, it's in the same place in the user interface. And your storage is shown in the Finder's sidebar in a single place too. So it's an all-round good thing.
Except when it's not. Because, bizarrely, Apple chose to implement it so that the folder containing your files is hidden in /User/YourUsername/Library/CloudStorage, a place which is hidden from users unless you either hold down an option key and select a menu or use the Terminal.
Why is that bad? Because a user can remove the storage folder from the sidebar in the Finder... and after that, they have no way of getting to their files *unless* their app supports doing it through their own, unique menu. To many users, that looks like you've just accidentally deleted your cloud storage (you haven't, and it's still actively syncing).
But if that's bad, worse is to come. What happens if, say, you delete the Dropbox app from your machine? Well, all your files are still there, hogging up storage space. You just can't easily get to them now. And if you want to delete them, you can't actually remove the folder they're in via the Finder. You have to do it using rm -r in the terminal. So in other words, if you stop using Dropbox and want to clean everything Dropbox-related off your Mac, you *have* to use the terminal to do it. Installing Dropbox and then reinstalling it is worse: when I did this, my files were all there, but when I went to them in the Finder I got a cryptic error message.
I understand why Apple might want to ensure cloud storage files can only go in one place. But a hidden directory, that can't be deleted? That's just bonkers.
“ Because Apple make superb hardware, but terrible user interfaces...”
Errrr…. Compared to Gnome? And KDE?
Really??? I’m no fan of the Mac UI but….
Sorry, I'm confused. Gnome is a user interface? I thought it was some kind of compulsory init system that insisted on being graphical. I couldn't understand why so much GPU memory was needed for a ruddy init system.
I'm mostly with you on the "Why?" - they got me a long time ago Winston. ;-) And for the Linux I do need, Fedora 39 running in VMWare is very nice indeed already.
But a couple of counterpoints nonetheless.
Typically in the past Linux is faster on the same hardware than macOS. If that matters to you, and once hardware support is complete, there's that.
More importantly maybe: Linux is what you traditionally put on a Mac when Apple don't want to support it with software updates any more. And in my own experience as far back as PPC, they can find themselves being Linux systems far longer than they were ever Macs... because yes, they're just made that well, they go on forever. Especially the Mini. We don't yet know how long Apple are planning to support Apple Silicon macs for: They're still selling the M1 MacBook Air *new* on the site for a start, so it's not going to be for a few years yet. But when it happens, it's good to know Linux will be there, keeping these machines useful and out of landfill for a few more years yet.
It was when I ran the same version of Linux Mint on both my G4 Mac Mini and my then-already-not-current (32-bit) Raspberry Pi, and the latter completely stomped on the former, that I finally, *finally* felt it was time to let the G4 Mini go. Found a copy of Leopard to put on it and *sold* it even then, someone paid actual money for it! Those things are just immortal.
Right, but what you say applies to machines that Apple have stopped supporting. Though this is less of an issue now that Open Core is working so well – it's on my reserve MBP 2016 so that I won't feel naked when I eventually update this machine. I guess I could consider doing something with my old MBP 2010 but it's hardly faster than an RPi, uses more power and makes more noise.
As for speed, depends very much what you're doing. Apple's own software for creatives is pretty well optimised. As for anything I install using MacPorts, it doesn't seem to run slower than on comparable Linux systems.
my feeling on the relative speed of linux on the same hardware is not necessarily up to date. it was true when I ran a hackintosh. :-) and it was true on that G4 Mini.
opencore for keeping at least Intel machines running on the latest (until the latest doesn't even support Intel) is something I look forward to trying when my last Intel mac falls out of official support - otoh i might well be sticking linux on it then for preference. i might even do it sooner though: I run PVR software that needs linux on x64 to run (v4l driver support needed), and it failed to work reliably with that linux in a virtual machine, but the old PC tower is just too noisy to leave running these days.
macports is a name i haven't heard in a long time. the cool kids use Homebrew these days. first thing i do on a new mac. (I lie: second thing, after updates) ;-)
When one says that one OS is faster than another, that's generally a reference to the fact that some OSes come laden with needless bloat (e.g. all the different background services that are running in macOS or Windows), and others do not (e.g. Linux). Though it seems that systemD and various other unpopular projects are hell bent on moving Linux distros from their former low overhead state of grace to bloated desktop crushers.
MacOS has online DRM (you can't get through the installer without activating). Since Big Sur I believe.
MacOS has code signing issues since the M1. A binary compiled on your machine won't run on your second machine. There is (for now) a workaround but this will get stricter over time: https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/9082
The userland is not entirely BSD; you have some GNU stuff in there (particularly Vim and gmake). It also has lost the ability to do Jails (or even a decent chroot) along the way.
To save the hardware from the inevitable landfill, I feel being able to install Linux does help. Installing a proper BSD (i.e FreeBSD) will be nice too.
> I guess all those apps I have installed, not from the App Store, must have been compiled on my machine then...
> They're all signed (an ad hoc signature is fine). This is not necessarily a bad thing, but some people are concerned that over the long run Apple will seek to "iOS-ize" macOS and have only known signatories, certified by Apple.
Its worse than that. Those apps, not from the App Store have been signed by a certificate that the authors have had to beg Apple for (and pay for the privilege). This is the same as Microsoft's Windows RT developer license.
As I mentioned, try compiling a binary on your machine and try running it on your second machine. I bet you can't run it without also begging Apple (and paying) for the privilege. Basically the developers who write software you enjoy using are being forced through stupid hoops by Apple.
"Given that MacOS provides a full BSD userland, why bother with all the hassle to run Linux on a machine?"
Quoting Doc Brown, (Marty) "You are not thinking 4th dimensionally": when Apple stops supporting that machine, Linux will come to the rescue, the same that happens right now with Windows.
and has been since the decision to move to the V3.0 design. V2.x might have been a nightmare where the codebase is concerned but it worked and was configurable.
Since then the design decisions have been the work of demented beings.
What Idiot decided that windows didn't need those nice and helpful buttons at the top right of the window frame? Luckily they can be restored if missing (for the time being)
I have yet to find a reliable way of turning off all aspects of window snapping. If I wanted the same behaviour as shitty Windows 10 or 11, I would be using Windows.
Yours
'Frustrated of Tonbridge'
KDE is horribly overcomplicated, with a dozen superfluous options everywhere you look and little support for Windows keystrokes.
Really? Have you ever tried it sober?
ALT+F4 closes window
Win+E opens file manager
Win+V opens clipboard history
Yeah, "little support for Windows keystrokes"...
BTW, how is support for Windows keystrokes on Mac?
"The Reg FOSS Desk has an M1 MacBook Air, and in some ways, it's more akin to an iPad with a keyboard and trackpad."
Well, I have that one, and it's nothing like an iPad with keyboard and trackpad. It like a normal macbook, but much faster.
It runs old x86 stuff too, unlike any ipad. Ipads don't run osX apps.
It uses osX. IPad doesn't.
Etc,etc.
I was never quite sure why people say KDE is complicated, I assume it's about the settings app which has a lot of stuff? Maybe it's subjective, I rarely need to change settings so perhaps that's why I don't mind. I hear they've tidied Settings a bit for KDE 6 but hopefully not removed too much.
In any case, the Asahi people have not made any commitments or predictions about the availability of M3, OGL 4.x, Vulkan or what will be in Fedora 40. That's entirely on the author.
ChromeOS on a new Black Friday special Chromebook plus (HP x360) is a great option for your non technical SO or elderly patient. It just works, keeps everything up to date and has many years of support. And for just $364 US ($320 off), it's a steel. Sure the 5050 mAH battery could be a bit bigger but for the casual, on the couch, use case it's fine. I'm also a huge fan of everything charging via USB type C with these compact GAN chargers.
Linux is my poison (for work purposes) but for everything else the Chromebook plus has a lot to offer (including some light gaming via Steam).
I have to say that a MacBook is my second suggestion for the casual end user but the client baulked at the cost.
"KDE is horribly overcomplicated, with a dozen superfluous options everywhere you look and little support for Windows keystrokes"
C'mon Liam, in every article that you name KDE, you repeat the same things (complicated, lots of options, problem with a vertical task bar, etc, etc). As other user posted here, KDE has a lot of options, yes, but you seldom need to change them. Luckily the options are there in order to adapt the desktop to your needs (the opposite of MacOS, Windows, Gnome, etc)
BTW, Windows keystrokes have being supported for ages, I started with KDE 3, and the option was there. I know because I still use it. In Plasma just go to System settings -> shortcuts -> import shortcut scheme). You also have a Mac scheme. Does it sounds complicated? Try to re-map keystrokes on Windows without installing a 3rd party application.
I installed the Gnome version of Asahi and found Gnome to not be all that usable (this was on a Macbook Pro M2). Gnome felt just a tad glitched. On the MacOS side of things I have MacPorts installed, which pretty much has what I need. I will eventually install the KDE version of Asahi (just, well, because). I've used Linux since forever, My first installation was on a powerPC based Bondi iMac. So I have a long history putting Linux on Macs. In the end it's pretty much about your personal use case though. For me, I like having an OS that isn't tracked by the Apple gods. In my mad schemes I picture my Macbook running hyperland on a full out FreeBSD (Ahhh...) That said, I'm fine using both Linux and MacOS as my needs dictate. The Asahi team did a great job on this and deserve all the praise.
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