back to article China's GPU contender Moore Threads reveals card that can cope with Nvidia’s CUDA

Moore Threads, a Chinese purveyor of GPUs, has unveiled its mightiest model to date – and it may even give market leader Nvidia a little to worry about. The MTT S4000 packs 48GB of video memory and 768GB/sec of video memory bandwidth on each card. But Moore Threads hasn't detailed core count or frequency, saying only that its …

  1. HuBo

    Commodity tat

    Meh. At 25 TF/s in FP32, this MTT S4000 performs a bit like a household GPU, where RTX4070 does 29 TF/s, and RX7800XT hits 37 TF/s. Chinese gamers living in their mom's basements may rejoice some though (if the cards are available and inexpensive). MUSIFY likely dog-slows the chip down too I expect.

    For AI, it'll be more interesting to see creatively competitive innovation from China (IMHO) -- stuff that'd make us go: "darn, they're real smart ou there!". Their own approach to the dataflow arch for example, or innovations to tackle the longstanding memory bottleneck of Von Neumann machinery, or even new ways to etch transistors at 2nm and beyond.

    The MTT S4000 looks more like a ketchup band-aid than research worthy of the Zhiyuan to me.

    1. cyberdemon Silver badge

      Re: Commodity tat

      I have no doubt that the performance will improve, fast.

      Even if the documentation is only available to Chinese customers - As soon as China have viable "mainland" alternatives to everything that is produced in Taiwan, then there is nothing stopping them from taking the island by force, and severely borking all Western economies in the process.

      1. CountCadaver Silver badge

        Re: Commodity tat

        Assuming the USA doesn't intervene in a bout of "show those filthy godless commies who is in charge"patriotic fervour

      2. Groo The Wanderer Silver badge

        Re: Commodity tat

        Not to mention the fact that "Buy Chinese" sells as well to the public in China as "Buy American" does in the US. There are a lot of Chinese nationals who are going to prefer this card to NVidia's just because it isn't American. The same may prove true of some of China's more "interesting" political partners that take an anti-US stance.

      3. PhilipN Silver badge

        Re: Commodity tat

        "As soon as China have viable "mainland" alternatives ..." and when TSMC has its plant up and running in Arizona Taiwan will no longer be worth the bother. It is being sidelined by both the USA and China,

      4. Youngone Silver badge

        Re: Commodity tat

        China are not going to invade Taiwan, because they can't.

        The last time any significant amphibious invasion was attempted, the invaders had been fighting for 4 years (most of them anyway), they had 2 dress rehearsals and the target did not possess satellites or a significant ally who could intervene.

        China would need to get 1,000,000 men across the straights of Taiwan and supply them. Taiwan and the US would be able to watch the build up in real time and would know exactly where the landings were going to be. Imagine China's casualty rate.

        China could destroy Taiwan of course, they possess nukes. That's going to cripple their own economy, so they won't do that either.

        1. cyberdemon Silver badge

          > China are not going to invade Taiwan, because they can't.

          You reckon?

          It's getting to the point where 100,000 fully autonomous (no radio link to disrupt) drones could be more effective than a million troops, especially with hypersonic missiles to keep the american battleships away

          1. HuBo

            Re: > China are not going to invade Taiwan, because they can't.

            必须学会读中文 !

          2. Youngone Silver badge

            Re: > China are not going to invade Taiwan, because they can't.

            How is sending drones going to achieve anything useful?

  2. Binraider Silver badge

    Has the software evolved to any level even remotely near usable? Most demos I have seen of this hardware suggest it is virtually useless.

    Nvidia and AMD's profit margins need not be worried - yet.

    1. munnoch Bronze badge


      Here is the unintended consequence. China will develop their own stuff, they have plenty of stolen IP with which to do so plus engineers that we conveniently trained for them in our universities. It night not be quite as shit-hot as the West's, but it'll be good enough and cheap as chips. They won't hesitate to sell it to all the non-G7's. Before long it'll come back around to us and we'll have another Huawei on our hands, except instead of eavesdropping on our comms they'll be operating our self-driving cars.

      1. pimppetgaeghsr

        University education won't matter for making chips. They are being trained in our semiconductor companies from Apple to ARM to the chinese companies being supplied with arch licenses by ARM/Imgtec etc. to develop CPU/GPU. The political situation may prevent those employees from going back to China and working at gunpoint I suppose but I'm guessing there are only going to be increasingly ridiculous job offers for those folks once all the IP has been scooped up and China can decouple itself.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        >”… and we'll have another Huawei on our hands, except…”

        With a home grown industry the balance of power will also shift, so all the tech documentation will be in Chinese (if you are able to get your hands on it) and thus we will need to purchase Chinese engineers at elevated salaries ( that’s if China allows them to leave the country) to get our hands on it and thus keep up with the innovation…

      3. Alan Brown Silver badge

        I'm picking that within 20 years China will be selling Thorium MSR nuclear power to all takers and the USA's oil hegemony will be done

        That's likely to be more important than any other technology

        The supreme irony of this being that it's technology developed originally in the USA (one of the few truely indigenous US technology inventions), tested sucessfully and then OUTLAWED because it posed a threat to the nuclear weapons industry (it's still illegal to run up a molten fuelled nuclear reactor in the USA, which puts a severe crimp in the work of the dedicated few at ORNL)

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      > Has the software evolved to any level even remotely near usable?

      Well if it supports Nvidia’s CUDA without recompilation, I suggests that’s good first step to getting usable software without having to develop it yourself…

  3. LogicGate Silver badge

    Somebody needs to say it, so I will:

    -But can it run Crysis?

    I hope that my sacrifice will be valued..

    1. Snake Silver badge

      RE: sacrifice

      I'll sacrifice for downvotes but I'm concerned about the software / firmware for this thing: back doors?

      1. Groo The Wanderer Silver badge

        Re: RE: sacrifice

        Yes, well clearly your hit ratios are of great interest to the Chinese Government, and they definitely want a copy of that photo of the Christmas Party last week. *LOL*

        1. LogicGate Silver badge

          Re: RE: sacrifice

          Oh No!

          Not THAT picture!!!

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: RE: sacrifice

        Like the ones in Cisco kit?

  4. Alan Brown Silver badge

    We have to thank the USA

    Without their sanctions, the world would be closing in on a lot of single-supplier monopolies in critical infrastructure

    Thanks to their paranoia, we're seeing independent supply chains developing in ways that USA corporates _can't_ buy out or exert political control over

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: We have to thank the USA

      With a bit of luck they will even force innovative new solutions - like how Britain blockading Germany in 1914-18 led to artificial fertilizer or French sanctions on America led to the invention of cheese in a can.

  5. b1k3rdude

    "card that can cope with Nvidia’s CUDA"

    Sorry, "can cope with", did you mean to say can match...? Drunk a bit to much as the xmas party..?

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