Tiny11 shrinks Windows 11 23H2 down to pocket size A new version of Tiny11 – a stripped-down version of Microsoft's flagship operating system – is here, now in full 23H2 guise. We took a look at Tiny11 earlier this year and, while an undoubted technical tour-de-force, found the considerably slimmed-down operating system more a curiosity than something one would want to use as …
Perhaps someone wants to run Windows-only software on a system that's Internet facing and wants to receive security updates* without the bloat.
*and is happier with a system that may be pre-compromised by a third party over one without updates. That said, there is safety in numbers; the more people using it, the more looking for surreptitious nasties.
I would also like to read your source on "fleeing".
Perhaps someone wants to run Windows-only software on a system that's Internet facing and wants to receive security updates* without the bloat.
If there's one thing I've learned it's anything which requires you to fight against the manufacturer is sooner or later doomed to failure. E.g. if you want a repairable or upgradable up piece of hardware without lock in, don't buy Apple. If you don't agree with Windows bloat and telemetry, don't buy Microsoft.
Why put yourself in a position where you have to depend on one guy who may have to give up supporting this one day for any number of reasons?
> Why put yourself in a position where you have to depend on one guy who may have to give up supporting this one day for any number of reasons?
>> The developer claims to have resolved many of the bugs and issues that plagued earlier versions of Tiny11 and, importantly, it appears that the Windows Update functionality is now working. This means the flow of fixes from Microsoft should – and we use the word "should" advisedly – keep the installation secure.
So right now, today, it isn't up quite up to snuff - which means it is "only" of interest to those who want to play around, shove it onto something small lying around unused. *NOT* anyone who is worrying about ongoing support and whether he will ever demonstrate that the update issues really are all wrinkle-free.
IF he gets the wrinkles out - well, you have a (teeny), but entirely Microsoft, Windows install which is getting the updates from Microsoft. Unless you think you will feel a real need to do a total re-install any time soon, and that that *has* to be from a Tiny11 cut of a later copy of Win11 than he has worked his magic on (instead of just using the latest installer and letting the update process run for a while) then his job is done, you don't need this "one guy" to do anything more for you.
IF he DOESN'T get those wrinkles out, then you won't have installed it anyway - and once again, you are not reliant on this "one guy" to keep supporting you.
98Lite was a fun and useful project along similar lines, as was some equivalent of that I forget the name of for XP.
I won't deny I've almost ditched windows entirely outside of work, but there *must* be a lesson in here for MS if they were awake. Offer a power user edition with the customisation and features *we* want as opposed to ditching bloat onto your system.
For the hobbyist inclined power user; Server 2019 makes for an interesting option. Install desktop features, disable telemetry, swap to browser of choice and dispose of programs you don't want. The resulting system largely resembles the Win7 successor that *we* want, and happens to have the server features as well if you really want them. The only weak link is sorting certain drivers; consumer installers for e.g. Radeon don't work out of the box... But you can extract the installer files and manuallly point Device Manager to the drivers. Works just fine.
it's called nLite there are versions for Win 7,8 and 10
https://www.nliteos.com/
"Have you ever wanted to remove Windows components like Media Player, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, MSN Explorer, Messenger...
How about not even to install them with Windows ?
nLite is a tool for pre-installation Windows configuration and component removal at your choice. Optional bootable image ready for burning on media or testing in virtual machines. able to have Windows installation which on install does not include, or even contain on media, the unwanted components."
The issue for most people isn't that the computers they would like to run it on aren't powerful enough - so they don't need a cut-down version of the OS.
The actual issue is the TPM 2 / Secure Boot / CPU version requirement for W11. Yes, you can still install if provided the device has at least TPM 1.2 and Secure Boot, but it absoloutely won't install feature updates, and could be broken by an update at any time. The latter also applies to modified installers created using Rufus or similar.
Apart from people who like playing with computers, I don't think there will be many people who want to install W11 on something really ancient and low-powered!
Ouch. Your comment hit home. After years of developing in WinForms and WPF, I've recently joined the 21st century and dipped my toe into WinUI3, which for those who aren't familiar with it is Microsoft's "latest and greatest" framework for developing Windows 11 applications. Sorry, "apps".
Well, apart from the whole thing being unfinished and very much a work-in-progress (no visual UI editor at all? really? just hand-editing of raw XML files?) what's beyond my comprehension is that a simple "hello world" level program compiles to.... about 130MB. Yes, Megabytes.
There's things you can do to trim it down, but even with trying all the tricks, I haven't been able to get my simple prototype app - opens a window with some buttons, no code-behind functionality yet - below 90MB.
When I think of the miracles I've seen performed in mere kilobytes of space, 90+MB for a simple Hello World is utterly obscene and Microsoft should be red-faced.
> Microsoft should be red-faced
Oh, they are.
Unfortunately, mostly from laughing too hard[1] as they struggle up the stairs to the penthouse with the bags of money from the Dupes - oops, loyal Users.
[1] If not for glee and low lung capacity, Microsoft would long ago had nothing but a ghastly pale look; all thought of "shame" was captured and slaughtered many years ago.
> a simple "hello world" level program compiles to.... about 130MB.
Hmm, sounds like you've left something out; according to Microsoft coding guidelines, it should waaaay larger than that.
You don't seem to be using upper case, that would shave a few megabytes off, but not quite so much as you have managed. Are you absolutely certain you have *both* words showing up when you run the app? Both "hello" *and* "world"?
So my x230 and x240's can run win10 happily, and win11, but if there is a cut down version that removes all the bloat that is not needed, could give those little things a nice boost.
Faffing with Mint on one at the moment and trying to work out if it is practical with the other half. Most things are OK, but still not sure and do I want the headache of not using Windows ?
>mine has endured significantly more abuse than a modern X series could stand up to.
I think you might be misunderstanding the nature of capitalism. I have a storeroom full of Dell XPS that are out of official support and so corporate abandoned them.
There was also a bunch of Alienware that somebody managed to specify for 'graphics intensive CAD workloads' don't know what happened to them !
"you can still install if provided the device has at least TPM 1.2 and Secure Boot, but it absoloutely won't install feature updates"
Tell that to my old HP z620 Ivy Bridge EP workstation with TPM 1.2, which gets all the same Windows 11 updates as the supported systems - including all feature updates like Copilot.
"and could be broken by an update at any time."
True, but that's no bigger risk than another of Microsoft's rushed out updates breaking a supported computer.
I'm not sure you are talking about the same thing the rest of us are when you say "feature updates", but if you are, please tell me how to get an officially non-supported Win11 21H2 system to upgrade to 22H2, and/or from 22H2 to 23H2, without a nuke-and-pave. I've got several beers with your name on them if you can point me in the right direction. I'm swimming in non-supported kit here!
"I'm not sure you are talking about the same thing the rest of us are when you say "feature updates","
I'm talking about receiving regular Feature updates like 22H2 and 23H2, as well as the many spreads of wanted or unwanted features hidden in updates between them (like the premature update bringing the joy of Copilot).
I have several newer systems fully supported under Windows 11, as well as a number of older devices, one being the mentioned HP workstation. Aside from the normal variation in time when a feature update is seen by a specific system, the old z620 gets exactly the same updates as our supported machines (and the z620 got 23H2 earlier than two of the supported systems).
I also have an old Dell 2-in-1 tablet/convertible, originally sold with Windows 8.1 and unsupported, and it, too, gets all the feature updates. But this one does have a TPM 2.0, unlike the z620 workstation.
"please tell me how to get an officially non-supported Win11 21H2 system to upgrade to 22H2, and/or from 22H2 to 23H2, without a nuke-and-pave."
I've never done a nuke and pave, just regular updates.
So it magically works for you (feature updates) when it hasn't for me or anyone else I've asked? On multiple unsupported machines? You did nothing extra to enable this that you could point me to? I'm very confused (both about this subject and in a more general sense).
Tell that to my old HP z620 Ivy Bridge EP workstation with TPM 1.2, which gets all the same Windows 11 updates as the supported systems - including all feature updates like Copilot.
But how many users really want 'Copilot'? That's pending installation in the next update due on my box, but I'm really not convinced I want the latest iteration of Clippy. Especially as it'll probably mean even more 'telemetry' going to MS to help train their AIs. What I want is an update that makes Windows leaner, faster and less prone to crashing, not more bloat and unwanted processes with every update.
"But how many users really want 'Copilot'?"
Good question, but considering the current AI craze and Microsoft's desire for a 360 degree monetization of its users I'd say there is demand on both ends.
"That's pending installation in the next update due on my box, but I'm really not convinced I want the latest iteration of Clippy."
Fair enough (and I don't want Copilot either), but then there aren't many options other than finding a way to get rid of it, install a fresh copy of W11 with region to set to a country inside the EU (which supposedly gets some more privacy friendly options and no Copilot), or not using Windows 11 altogether.
"Especially as it'll probably mean even more 'telemetry' going to MS to help train their AIs."
You can bet it does. It's part of being customer, product and unpaid beta tester.
"What I want is an update that makes Windows leaner, faster and less prone to crashing, not more bloat and unwanted processes with every update."
Well, tough luck. That's like asking Peterbilt to sell you a sports car, it won't gonna happen. Slurping off user data and monetizing every aspects of it is what Microsoft has in the cards for Windows, with an increasingly heavy push to move Windows to the cloud so they can charge a recurring ransom on top. All of Microsoft's products, including it's cloud offering Entra formerly known as Azure, is built on a wobbly software stack held together by toilet roll cores and bubblegum, and regular bugs, crashes, failures and other hickups have been par for the course for a very long time. And because people and especially many businesses still rather pay the ransom instead of abandoning the platform this is highly unlikely to change anytime soon.
If you don't want that (which I have sympathy for) then you either have to spend your time fighting Windows and the various updates that will make user monetization increasingly worse, or move to one of the few real alternatives, which are Mac, Linux and ChromeOS (Flex).
Personally, my primary computers are all Macs, and at work it's mostly ChromeOS and Macs (plus a number of Linux systems). The only reasons I still have some Windows computers are gaming (AAA titles), for the odd case I have to talk to someone on Teams (a steaming pile of excrement), and to feed my curiosity of what turds Microsoft is throwing its users next.
> I don't think there will be many people who want to install W11 on something really ancient and low-powered!
What's meant by 'ancient' and 'low powered'?
The complaint that you constantly hear is that the operating environment is consuming most of the system resources so you have to constantly add resources to keep the system stable as 'upgrades' add to the system even though the actual work you're doing hasn't changed much. The FUD for this is that its all about 'security enhancements' but as we (programmers) all know the problem of continually adding complexity is that it makes it increasingly harder to test and so guarantee that they system is bug free. So the entire system just exists to feed itself. In effect, its a parasite.
Which is why there's a tendency for people to go "Oh sod it -- I'm just going to use Linux". Which explains why the pressure is on the C-Suite to mandate Windows and Nothing But Windows. But for those of us who need to get work done......
I would love to be able to install Win11 on ancient and low-powered machines - my 700+ desktop fleet includes some very old machines, but my school doesn't have the budget to upgrade them all before 2025. Security updates are important to us, as is a setup that is as consistent as possible for teachers, students and sysadmins.
That would be my second choice, behind having a Win10 with updates.
3rd party software like this? Interesting and clever as it may be, it's not for us.
Shows Nadella just how much bloat is not needed to make an Operating System.
Unfortunately, however much I wish to salute this NTwhatever guy, his efforts are doomed to interest the same category of computer nerds that run Linux.
And they're not going to be interested in spending time on a Windows version when they've already got much better.
But hey, points for trying.
Not necessarily, most consumers aren't optimising for reduced install footprint.
We used to install the Windows 'N' builds - the anti-trust version with no bundled codes - to save a few Gb on VMs
But for a customer buying a preinstalled machine with a Tb of disk - it's optimal for them to have drivers for every bit of weird hardware and fonts for every language, without having to go online to download it.
Fourth article I've read which doesn't actually mention the full-installed size, which seems a pretty huge omission.
The download is about 3.5-4.0Gb but what's the installed size? Not much less than Windows, I'm guessing.
And all it is really is a bunch of scripts that uninstall unnecessary Windows Store apps and some registry entries to turn things off:
https://github.com/ntdevlabs/tiny11builder
The LTSC edition of Windows also omits this sort of thing, so it is not surprising that Tiny11 is possible. As for why MS don't do it, or offer it, well clearly they do and they recognise its worth by only making available to people with very deep pockets.
I'm told by folks with an MBA that this is a standard technique. Design your product range so that it has a cheapest offering so that you can brag about the price, but make it shitty enough that anyone with the money buys a more expensive one.
I've been using MSMG Toolkit for many years to strip out all the unnecessary bloat and create custom windows install, seriously don't know what the fuss is about, it's perfectly stable and secure and does nothing that a user wouldn't be able to do with some PowerShell scripts and registry modifications, except that it also deletes the bits you don't need so they are not installed in the first place, of course some basic knowledge and understanding of Windows is required so you don't remove anything you'll need later, but there is a ton of how-to guides and forum discussions on the internet to educate yourself.
...of course some basic knowledge and understanding of Windows is required so you don't remove anything you'll need later, but there is a ton of how-to guides and forum discussions on the internet to educate yourself.
I think this is the missing link. What's neeed is a simple bloat remover that the ordinary user can just run & de-cruft a typical Windows install. Most users (including me) don't know what half the processes running on a typical install do or if they're really needed. MS doesn't make this at all obvious. It's stuff that should be basic, ie a pet peeve is having to kill it's Xbox junk when I don't have an Xbox.
"It retains, however, a footprint so small that one cannot help but wonder why Microsoft does not do something similar itself."
First, Microsoft is billions, with a B, invested in bloat you don't want or need (AI), that sucks up your PC resources.
Second, Microsoft has created billions, with a B, in bloat you don't want or need (Auto everything, and spyware).
Third, Microsoft caters to third party malware.
Fourth, The OS is actually TWO OS's. A 64 bit and a 32 bit.
Fifth, Microsoft has contracts with venders that you don't want or need (bloatware).
Sixth, Microsoft has no clue what it is doing, it just buys it's way into everything (like pc's and AI).
As MS continue to bloat Windows there are increasing opportunities to shrink it without any loss of functionility for most users. Every time I get an upgrade I have to spend days removing unwanted stuff. There are loads of unwanted things that are locked and I cant remove. Remember when you could run Windows 3 on a 300MB disk? People said "Why do you so much HD? You dont need that much". Yes, 300MB not 300GB. I can get down to 30GB for W10 but it soon creeps up.
Group Policy Editor, User Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Copilot, Turn off Windows Copilot -> Enabled
Adios and good riddance. Of course I can see the appeal of stripping out way more bloat, but that's the only one that really bothers me that's not easy to turn off.
"20 percent smaller than its predecessor." Sure, I could go read an earlier article and do some maths but it would be nice if you just told me how small it is now.
"a footprint so small that..." Yeah, but how small?
"running Tiny11 2311 with minimal RAM is possible" WTF is "minimal"?
Since Win3.1 I've wanted to know why the mictosoft installer doesn't ask a few basic questions and then install only those pieces needed. Why I need umpteen hundred language DLLs and EXEs when I only use one? Why do I need drivers for this peripheral or another when I never have or will use it? How many of the several hundred "services" are needed? And what about all the bloatware apps mictosoft imposes on users that aren't needed, or anywhere near as good as FOSS versions? Remember when windows was on five floppy discs? Now it's a two hour download over a gigabit connection.
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