Britain proposes 'super-complaints' to help keep the internet safe

The UK government has unveiled a proposal aimed at creating a "super-complaint" to allow concerns over free speech and online safety to be raised directly with Ofcom. The proposal is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the government cites the example of a social media platform removing legal content that its terms don't …

[jmch]

Super?

So, the difference between a normal complaint and a super complaint is that normal complaints by normal people are (and will continue to be) ignored, while the new super complaints (made by some designated super complainants) will actually be heard?

Isn't that just formalising the current setup where anyone within the old boys' network can get their complaint heard while the hoi polloi are routinely ignored??

[Catkin]

Re: Super?

It seems like a borderline-reasonable idea if viewed without any consideration for reality. So, I suppose, it aligns perfectly with the wider Online """Safety""" Bill.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Super?

It's more like to enable big corporations to stifle competition.

Oh you have a nice feature over there, and you are growing so quick! Shame if our army of solicitors lodged a super complaint about it.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Super?

Double top-secret super complaint

[spold]

Re: Super?

The new super-complaints system to be known as KAREN

[CountCadaver]

So posting imported American Christian nationalist anti-lgbtqia+ "free speech" aka bigotry will be A-OK but heaven forbid you advocate for refugees, suggest a 5 eyes ally might be in the wrong, advocate for lgbtqia+

Yeah I can see exactly where this is going.....whether under the "tell me a story" Tories or Tory-lite under their current leader who didn't at all come from an extremely well heeled background....

[Jedit]

"their current leader who didn't at all come from an extremely well heeled background"

Please! Keir Starmer's father was a toolmaker.

Of course, if Starmer Senior had done us all a favour and worn a condom, none of this would be true.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: "their current leader who didn't at all come from an extremely well heeled background"

He was a toolmaker and made tool.

[Jellied Eel]

So posting imported American Christian nationalist anti-lgbtqia+ "free speech" aka bigotry will be A-OK but heaven forbid you advocate for refugees, suggest a 5 eyes ally might be in the wrong, advocate for lgbtqia+

Depends what you mean, but seems to be the point-

The proposal is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the government cites the example of a social media platform removing legal content that its terms don't prohibit, thus attracting the ire of free-speech advocates.

Or anti-free speech advocates. So some religions view the LGB stuff as wrong, immoral, not compatible with their religion. Religious freedoms are protected characteristics, as are most aspects of sexuality and gender. Activist members of the alphabet brigade can be just as bigoted as religious fundamentalists, and both groups sometimes need protecting from each other. There should be scope for rational debate on religious grounds, but 'burn the switch bitch!' should perhaps get taken down. Especially as Wiccans are also protected.

Same's true with any divisive subject. We should de-platform anyone who doesn't like Marmite! On stuff like refugees, there is again scope for rational debate. Like apparently our Border Farce picked up an unseaworthy boat load of illegal immigrants that a French vessel had escorted into our waters. The vessel was clearly unseaworthy, so per SOLAS, the French should have intercepted them and returned them to France. Meanwhile, Finland's complaining that Russia is allowing illegal immigrants to cross into Finland. If France does it, why shouldn't Russia? Why are we paying France a lot of money to stop illegal immigrants, not pay to provide them an escort service?

[Anonymous Coward]

muh both sides

one group wants to simply exist and spread their shared experiences and the other wants to kill or drive to suicide every queer person

this is not the same and free speech needs controls so that the oppressed feel free to speak instead of just the oppressors

[Snowy]

It needs to be balanced or the oppressed becomes the new oppressor. Which leads to the old oppressor fighting back and they claim to be defending free speech.

[Anonymous Coward]

when have lgbtqqip2saa+bipoc folx ever been oppressive

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be just as fair to say "one group wants to simply exist and spread their shared experiences and the other wants to kill or drive to suicide every religious person". There are extremist activists on both sides. One example is taking a baker to court for politely declining to make a wedding cake for a gay wedding - having served that particular gay couple on a number of occasions previously (and knowing they were a gay couple), and giving a recommendation for another bakery that would be willing to make the cake. But no, "he doesn't agree with my lifestyle" is enough reason to try to sue someone out of business and into bankruptcy.

[Anonymous Coward]

the baker should have just taken the l and bent the knee

offering alternative suppliers or a blank cake isn't enough to be equal. they must service all customers equally even if that means being forced to write support gay marriage on a cake

[Anonymous Coward]

Free speech does not imply free listening you are free to say and have any opinion you like I am also free to not pay attention.

I don't have any problem with what any one does but you cannot force people to your point of view

[heyrick]

"rational debate on religious grounds"

There's nothing rational about one doing the bidding of an imaginary sky fairy.

[Jellied Eel]

There's nothing rational about one doing the bidding of an imaginary sky fairy.

That's kind of the point. I could probably argue that that's hate speech, especially given the alternative meanings of 'fairy'. Should I now demand you be deplatformed for mocking the beliefs of a few billion people? Plenty of people do stuff that others may consider irrational. I've jumped out of perfectly good airplanes because it's fun. Maybe I start believing in a flying spaghetti monster, and why shouldn't I, if my beliefs harm nobody?

I think a lot of it's back to people not understanding Karl Popper's comments on tolerance, and becoming more intolerant as a result.

[Doctor Syntax]

It's just the atheist fundamentalists being as predicable and boring as any other belief system's fundamentalists.

[Patrician]

Atheism is not a belief system.

[Jellied Eel]

Atheism is not a belief system.

Sure it is. It's a belief that deities don't exist. Pascal wrote about this, as did other scholars like Sir Terry.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

> Activist members of the alphabet brigade can be just as bigoted as religious fundamentalists

Although there are relatively fewer gay bombings of churches / murders of bishops by drag queens

[Missing Semicolon]

However

.. there are threats and incitements to "punch *** in the face" where *** is some group that is not agreed with. So, fairly violent.

[Jellied Eel]

Although there are relatively fewer gay bombings of churches / murders of bishops by drag queens

Well, there was Audrey Hale and The Covenant School. Still a strange case given the lack of information, but then that got very political very quickly. Sadly, nutjobs are going to be nutjobs regardless of gender. Meanwhile, in another story, there is-

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/benjamin-netanyahu-amalek-israel-palestine-gaza-saul-samuel-old-testament/

On Saturday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Israelis were united in their fight against Hamas, whom he described as an enemy of incomparable cruelty. “They are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world,” Netanyahu said in Hebrew. He then added: “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.”

Which in a fairly strict interpretation is a call for genocide given Amalek and the Amalekites played in Jewish history, or scripture. Especially as the Amalekites could apparently transform into animals, thus the need to kill everything. Sometimes, religion can drift into religious extremism, and pointing that out can lead to censorship. But should it, and who decides?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

The explanation

[Jellied Eel]

The explanation

I like it. Also explains why a lot of pubs ban the discussion of religion & politics. Mixing the two rarely ends well.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

>Also explains why a lot of pubs ban the discussion of religion & politics.

That's why Rangers, Celtic and Amalekites have separate pubs

[amanfromMars 1]

Re: Explanations v Excuses. The Sublime and Surreal v the Diabolical and Despicable

Raw core truths are never-changing and ever-lasting no matter how much smoke and dust one throws up and how many mirrors and opaque windows one uses to deflect and refract an honest view reflecting a subversive corrupted image identifying a perverse action trying to conceal a wholly unpleasant and unholy operation for future exclusive profitable benefit/advantage.

It has been said before that truth is the first casualty/fatality of war and the excuses and reasons for continuing with wars are more likely to be exclusive elite top secrets rather readily available inclusive general knowledge universally acceptable and those are ingredients for cooking spectacular disasters.

"Nothing can excuse what Hamas did. The dilemma is why was Hamas allowed to do it and what were Israel's motives in allowing Hamas to do it? We know that in the past Hamas has been supported by Israel for tactical reasons to allow it to characterize the whole Palestinian movement as more hostile in character, emphasize the "victimhood" of Israel, and garner the support of world opinion." ...... says germanica commenting on news of the latest current Israeli war aired on https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-member-turkey-rachets-anti-israel-rhetoric-terror-state

The tale here from the United States Institute of Peace [Making Peace Possible]...... https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/08/how-gaza-marine-deal-could-benefit-palestinians-israelis-and-region ...... gives a very good and compelling reason why the Hamas attack was allowed to happen for who can believe state and secret intelligence services had no prior knowledge at all of such a major terrorist operation. It is just too unbelievable to be accepted as possible....

What a diabolical sacrifice that would be, and worthy of no peace loving nation.

And don't folk in Israel and the Middle East recognise and accept, in fear of eternal damnation and certain just retribution, those holy commandments that say ...

#5 Thou shalt not kill

#7 Thou shalt not steal

#8 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

#9 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house/land

#10 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife or his slaves, or his animals, or anything of thy neighbour

And those ages old lessons to be learned and heeded and abided by, are worthy of teaching to all, whether native of the North, South, East or West, and even further afield way out there in other otherworldly and alien outer spaces too .... for can you imagine the madness and mayhem, havoc and devastation unbelievers arriving on and colonising the planet would catastrophically easily cause just doing their normal default IBM [Ignorant Barbaric Moronic] thing.

[ChoHag]

I agree. We can talk about the refugees but I don't think there can be rational debate with people who dislike Marmite.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

We of the Peoples Vegemite Front object

[Anonymous Coward]

"but heaven forbid you advocate for refugees,"

I think you will soon find that the boot is firmly on the other foot, because the test of competence will largely be a way of encompassing NGOs, who (in my view) already have a wildly disproportionate influence on government policy making.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

>NGOs, who (in my view) already have a wildly disproportionate influence on government policy making.

Like ACPO ?

[Anonymous Coward]

supercomplaint

when millions of individual complaints would be ignored, because of the volume thus cost, and those placed 'on behalf of', by a few, no doubt, carefully selected partners, might be actually read. Ironically, even those 'few' might be too many:

"Whether or not Ofcom has the bandwidth to react to the amount of super-complaints that are submitted is another question."

Perhaps we should start considering supervoting, eh? After all, cost-optimisation is humanity's driving force.

[heyrick]

Re: supercomplaint

Supervoting? Wouldn't that imply that only members of the currently elected party get to vote in the next election?

[jmch]

Re: supercomplaint

Re supervoting: I believe there is an Asimov short story about improvements in statistical analysis and computing advancing so much that the electoral results could be predicted by a smaller and smaller sample size, until in the end the computer chose one voter, from whose preferences it could infer the whole election result.

The other thing that comes to mind is Terry's description of Ankh-Morporks "one man one vote" democracy... The Patricia was the man and he had the vote!

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: supercomplaint

> The Patricia was the man and he had the vote!

That's why you have to be careful with the pronouns of the person throwing you in the scorpion pit

[jmch]

Re: supercomplaint

D'oh!

[elsergiovolador]

Hyper

Next year we will have hyper complaint tier.

In two years ultra complaint.

In three years ultimate complaint.

...

[Great Bu]

Re: Hyper

How much is it for the super platinum plus complaint with 3 colour foam ?

[cookieMonster]

Re: Hyper

And then they’ll add a subscription option to “fast track” the top tier clients

[ffRewind]

Re: Hyper

Ultimate Complaint Pro

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Hyper

But then everyone will get access to super ultimate platinum complaints free with their credit card.

Then we go back to just needing to complain privately

[Doctor Syntax]

I suppose when you pass legislation that's inherently broken it's entirely consistent to propose equally broken stuff to surround it. I wonder how long it'll take for ministers - of any political persuasion - to grasp this.

[John Madden]

Common Sense

I guess this was proposed before the new Minister for Common Sense was introduced...

[Anonymous Coward]

Suyer-complaints process and preventing exposing users to “harmful content”

a. How about the people making the "super-complaints" just not read the stuff.

b. Define “harmful content” ?

c. What self appointed entity gets to define “harmful content” ?

d. Why is it in the remit of “social media” platforms to shield us from such ?

This whole thing is just a pretext to shut-down free speech online. I've recently noticed a concerted effort to shut-down unorthodox opinions across social media. Something to do with the upcoming US 2024 presidential election. If you feed people the lie with no access to alternative views then they have no choice but to believe the lie.

--

A bit of a Typo on the website: “Suyer-complaints process is designed to help Ofcom stay on top of systemic harmful trends and emerging threats.”

ps: If your msgs pass through a server then it ain't end-to-end-encryption ;)

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Suyer-complaints process and preventing exposing users to “harmful content”

"If your msgs pass through a server then it ain't end-to-end-encryption"

What about asymmetric key encryption, e.g.PGP?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Suyer-complaints process and preventing exposing users to “harmful content”

>> If your msgs pass through a server then it ain't end-to-end-encryption

> What about asymmetric key encryption, e.g.PGP?

With enough msgs and weaken the encryption algorithm and using big enough hardware then the msg can be cracked.

[Ryan D]

Karen protocol initiated

Because nobody complains better than a Karen.

[v13]

Right...

So this is meant to be used by Nazis but not privacy advocates.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Complaint

AKA, the Julie Andrews clause.

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, all you have to do is ban the Daily Heil.

Remove that filth of a newspaper and one of the chief threats to kids futures is gone.

Disagree? Consider who the paper is aimed at - mostly right wing pensioners that don't give a shit about anything other than their triple lock.

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't anyone in the UK

know how to construct a guillotine?

After the last couple of weeks in English (sic) politics and this codswallop along with last few years which have to be comparable to the suffering of the people during Louis XVI's reign I have to wonder. Lowering the average height of their well heeled on the whole appears to have been beneficial in the long run.

If the British system of technical education is so broken that no one is capable of producing an aristocratic height reducer I suggest the Tower probably still houses suitable substitutes. Ironically I suspect KC III might enjoy taking a swing or two on his own account.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Doesn't anyone in the UK

Bizarrely, I think KC III might be considerably more on the side of the little guy than Parliament is.