back to article X fails to remove hate speech over Israel-Gaza conflict

Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, continues to have problems policing hate speech, the Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) has reported, with 98 percent of inflammatory posts about the Israel-Gaza war remaining up a week after being flagged. In a report published Tuesday, the British non-profit said it identified a sample …

  1. IceC0ld

    no surprise really :o(

    the Musky one will do anything - bar the right thing - to increase visibility, and attempt to claw back some of the BILLIONS he has lost so far

    I am still there, but just a small part of the machine [ >5k ] and even I can tell that the game is no longer what it was, the BLUE checks are meaningless now, and generally point to a prick with an extreme view, mainly right wing, and you can also tell by - blue check, and tiny follower numbers, low to no posts, all shite :o(

  2. Groo The Wanderer

    Apparently X-Twitter's CEO LIKES hate speech, or something would actually be done about it...

    1. EricM Silver badge

      Agree. Musk behaves over the last years as if someone successfully planted the idea that "hate sells" would somehow work out commercially.

      This is a style that wasn't obvious (at least to me) in Musk 10 years ago.

      We know from his other ventures he is determined to follow what impulse tells him is the right way.

      I just wonder how deep will he run TwiX into the ground until he re-evaluates this belief or digs out of the bubble he obviously has fallen into - and how dangerous he will become to the success of Tesla and SpaceX if he stays in his bubble.

      May be him being pushed out of PayPal was a sign of things to come ...

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        May be him being pushed out of PayPal was a sign of things to come

        He owns a major of Twitter, and I'll bet 100% of the voting shares. He learned his lesson from being pushed out, and has made sure that's not possible at any of his companies now so there's nothing to stop him from tanking Twitter.

        When a worthy competitor is finally ready and the masses flee, he'll whine and scream and blame "woke" for the fact that all the normies went away and it is a MAGA hellscape like Gab, Trump's money losing thing, etc.

        1. EricM Silver badge

          I couldn't care less about Twitter, may he have fun taking it down.

          SpaceX and Tesla on the other hand seem to be more worthy targets to save from his erratic and IMHO degrading leadership.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            nothing of worth in any of them.

      2. Excused Boots Silver badge

        Twitter can basically crash and burn with no real consequence, Tesla, a bit more important but other electric vehicle manufactures are beginning to come to the fore, so Tesla going down the drain, annoying, but the world can deal with it.

        Now Space-X, really quite important for various interests around the world, interests that could quite conceivably have the ability and motivation to arrange for something unfortunate to happen to one E. Musk, we’re push come to shove!

        Just saying

    2. Ian2325

      He was kinda.. raised into it from South Africa's apartheid regime.

      1. RedGreen925

        "He was kinda.. raised into it from South Africa's apartheid regime."

        Indeed as they say here the apple does not fall far from the tree and you can see from what he supports he is still full on fascist/racist piece of shit ...

    3. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      "Apparently X-Twitter's CEO LIKES hate speech, or something would actually be done about it...

      ... unless it's critical of him!

      https://twitter.com/kelly2277/status/1688166482767699968

      By the way, did you notice an Elon fanboy has downvoted all the posts here that dare criticise his holyness?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >Apparently X-Twitter's CEO LIKES hate speech, or something would actually be done about it...

      According to screenshots I saw this morning, the word "cis" is now flagged as potential hate speech. He's fallen down too far down the rabbit hole.

  3. Dinanziame Silver badge
    Facepalm

    X has taken action on hundreds of thousands of posts in the first month

    In other words, one every eight seconds. I can only suppose that the automated systems are unable to start, the rater team has been laid off, and there is one single temp somewhere in the bowels of the company who has to take down each post manually. Which explains why 99% of the hate is still up.

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  5. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Simple solution

    X sued the CCDH in August

    Musk later threatened to sue the Anti Defamation League for similar reasons

    Now, what if the likes of the CCDH and the ADL publish their criticism of X/Twitter on the platform first? Surely Musk can't complain - free speech and all that?

  6. Howard Sway Silver badge

    claiming the group was responsible for destroying $4 billion worth of Xitter's valuation

    Stop trying to blame others for the consequences of what you turned the site into. Advertisers don't put posters up in sewers because they don't want their products associated with the smell of what flows through them, nor do the people they want to reach spend their free time in them.

  7. mickaroo

    I Am So Glad...

    That I never tripped up and fell into the Xitter.

    It's a cesspool. Oh, wait...

  8. that one in the corner Silver badge

    Engage with X first

    > X also told us it urges the CCDH to "engage with X first," so it could "provide context or ensure that the proper actions have been taken."

    However, as

    > British non-profit said it ... reported them using X's moderation tools

    this is therefore an admission by X that using the moderation tools is *not* considered engaging with X first.

    In other words, the "moderation tools" are just a sham.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The X censorship team operations room

    Lit entirely by tiki torches…and roused with loud renditions of Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen.

    1. Bebu
      Windows

      Re: The X censorship team operations room

      《Lit entirely by tiki torches…and roused with loud renditions of Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen.》

      They must have reached Götterdämmerung by now. Despite Musk's pretensions to divinity its only "Trottelsdämmerung" lit by his burning bridges and boats of lost opportunity.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

    a.Why should it be in the purview of Xitter to police political discourse ?

    b. Who gets to define what is or is not “hate speech”.

    c. Who gets to decide what is or is not “hate speech” ?

    d. Who is the most oppressed by “hate speech” on Xitter. The State of Israel or US/EU designated terrorist organization Hamas ?

    --

    The “Center for Countering Digital Hate”. More likely, Center for Countering Opposing Views.

    promoting antisemitism, Islamophobia, anti-Palestinian hate and other hateful rhetoric

    If I post one antisemitic and one Islamophobic tweet, do they cancel out ?

    1. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

      >If I post one antisemitic and one Islamophobic tweet, do they cancel out ?

      Interesting concept. Unfortunately in today's world where words tend to have rather flexible meanings you never know what you'll get labeled with. For example, 'anti-semetic' according to many means "any criticism of Israel or Zionism". In some European countries this even has the force of law behind it -- you can literally get convicted of a crime for expressive an opinion. The 'arabs' (a bid tent, literally) have taken a leaf out of the Zionist's book and are countering in kind so now you've got to be careful what you say to avoid treating on two sets of toes.

      Some would say "Let 'er rip and let the chips fall where they may". Its a very American concept which is why Musk subscribes to it. I actually agree with him -- not necessarily his opinions, of course -- but I do believe people have the right to say what they think with just the one caveat that they have to own what they say.

      1. Furious Reg reader John

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        No, "any criticism of Israel or Zionism" isn't antisemitic, but criticism that is based on antisemitism is - it is very simple really.

        And fundamentally, Zionism gives the same rights that Muslims have to Jews, other non-Muslims, or the wrong type of Muslims. If you are an anti-Zionist, you want to remove those equal rights and return to the discrimination that exists everywhere else in the Ummah. Being an anti-Zionism is the exact opposite of supporting human rights.

        1. GNU SedGawk

          Zionism is the idelogical basis of a Zionist State Terrorist Group

          Yet in the early days, the Zionist movement was astonishingly honest about its existence as a form of colonialism. For example, Herzl, one of the founders of political Zionism wrote in 1902 to infamous colonizer Cecil Rhodes, arguing that Britain recognized the importance of “colonial expansion”:

          “You are being invited to help make history,” he wrote, “It doesn’t involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor ; not Englishmen, but Jews . How, then, do I happen to turn to you since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial.”

          Nordau, Herzl’s right hand man, even rightfully called Zionist settlements in Palestine “colonies”:

          “Zionism rejects on principle all colonization on a small scale, and the idea of “sneaking” into Palestine. The Zionists have therefore devoted themselves preeminently to a zealous and tireless advocacy of the uniting of the already existing Jewish colonies in Palestine with those who until now have given them their aid and who of late have inclined towards the withdrawal of their support from them.”

          Menachem Usishkin, chairman of the Jewish National Fund, was known for his calls to rid Palestine of its natives:

          “What we can demand today is that all Transjordan be included in the Land of Israel. . . on condition that Transjordan would be either be made available for Jewish colonization or for the resettlement of those [Palestinian] Arabs, whose lands [in Palestine] we would purchase. Against this, the most conscientious person could not argue . . . For the [Palestinian] Arabs of the Galilee, Transjordan is a province . . . this will be for the resettlement of Palestine’s Arabs. This the land problem. . . . Now the [Palestinian] Arabs do not want us because we want to be the rulers. I will fight for this. I will make sure that we will be the landlords of this land . . . . because this country belongs to us not to them . . . “

          Revisionist Zionist Vladimir Jabotinsky, in an essay titled The Iron Law (1925) wrote that:

          “A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!… Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important… to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonizing.”

          These quotations are merely the tip of the iceberg, but lest you think I am cherry-picking and choosing out of context passages, I invite you to read their original writings. There are only so many mental gymnastics you can perform to try and find a different meaning to “Zionism is a colonization adventure.” One of them is the claim that the Zionists adopted this kind of language only to convince the great imperial powers. It must have been a pretty convincing act, then, as its practice is still ongoing after over 100 years.

          https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/zionism-is-not-colonialism-just-jewish-self-determination/

          The Apartheid regime imposed by the ZSTG is supported by Zionists, who are Anti-Palestinian Racists largely from The Ukraine and the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Jews have opposed Zionism since its inception since its a staggeringly racist idea which tramples on many basic tenants of Judaism.

          Zionist State Terrorist Group which attacked Jews for speaking Yiddish [1],

          Bombed Jews [2], Assassinated Jews [3] and makes Jews around the world less safe by attempting to conflate the atrocities committed by the violent extremists supporting ZSTG with an ancient religious community [4].

          There are Ten Million members of CUFI [5] but only 7.6 Million Jews in the US[6], make it make sense. Oh right, Most Zionists aren't Jewish, and even if they were so what? Ukrainians and Poles are Dispossessing Palestinians, not debating theology.

          [1] https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2023-09-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/when-speaking-yiddish-could-get-you-beaten-up-by-jews-in-tel-aviv/0000018a-6fb5-d9af-a7db-6fbfbd6c0000

          [2] https://www.haaretz.com/2006-04-06/ty-article/now-it-can-be-told/0000017f-e185-d804-ad7f-f1ff68e50000

          [3] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-06-13/ty-article/.premium/the-hidden-terror-attacks-of-the-haganah-israels-pre-state-militia/0000017f-e69b-dea7-adff-f7fbb12e0000

          [4] https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/israels-savage-actions-in-the-name-of-jews-make-jews-unsafe/

          [5] https://cufi.org/press-releases/cufi-reaches-10-million-members/

          [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews

      2. Azamino

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        "... they have to own what they say." Hmm, wind the clock back 35 years for how that worked out in the former Eastern Bloc, or nip into modern day China, Saudi Arabia etc to to see the impact it has on their citizens.

        Props to you for walking the walk and posting under your own name rather than a handle.

    2. deadlockvictim

      Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

      I would not be surprised if tweets expressing anti-arab sentiments linger longer on the site while tweets expressing anti-Israeli sentiment are removed quickly.

      1. Intractable Potsherd

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        My experience is that you are wrong about that.

    3. Zolko Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

      If I post one antisemitic and one Islamophobic tweet, do they cancel out ?

      it depends on the specifics. Semits are the descendants of the original Jewish tribes, and today they're mostly Arabs. Most Arabs are Muslims. Jews are mostly from white caucasian European origin, not Semits. So "anti-semitism" is something against Arabs, how it became to mean something against Jews is not clear. Also, a "phobia" is an inexplicable fear – like agoraphobia or arachnophobia – therefore Islamophobia is not really something against Muslims, it's a factual term that describes a fear of Islamism, which in turn is a political form of the religion Muslim.

      So antisemitism and islamophobia are 2 orthogonal concepts.

      1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        I just had o upvote that. Maybe after another four or five reads I'll also understand it.

      2. Furious Reg reader John

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        "Jews are mostly from white caucasian European origin" - you have no idea how wrong you are.

        Antisemitism has been defined as Jew hate for a long, long time and trying to pretend that antisemitism has nothing to do with Jew hate is pretty stupid. But, if you are stupid enough to think Jews are only white Europeans, then I guess you wouldn't understand why Jew hate is called antisemitism.

        Look up antisemitism in the dictionary - you'll find a clear definition, and maybe even a picture of yourself.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

          By framing Jewish people as mostly 'white Europeans' it allows the free use of the racism card against them AND exempts anything you say about them from being called racist.

      3. Spazturtle Silver badge

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        "Semits are the descendants of the original Jewish tribes, and today they're mostly Arabs."

        "Jews are mostly from white caucasian European origin, not Semits."

        What a load of racist nonsense, Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews are genetically the same people.

        1. Zolko Silver badge

          Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

          Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews are genetically the same people

          if you're really interested in the subject look up Sepharad and Ashkenaz Jews. As you can see, Israel is populated by "Special Jewish Group " (whatever that means) and not "Traditionally Sefaradic " (Semits) like the rest of the middle-east.

          1. Spazturtle Silver badge

            Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

            Even the Ashkenazi Jews are very genetically similar to Palestinian Arabs.

            1. GNU SedGawk

              In the way that all humans "are very genetically similar" sure

              . Otherwise the "Ashkenazi" or "German Jews" are a distinctly European population which is fairly obviously since they originate in Europe as European Converts to Judaism.

              Ashkenazi, member of the Jews who lived in the Rhineland valley and in neighbouring France before their migration eastward to Slavic lands (e.g., Poland, Lithuania, Russia) after the Crusades (11th–13th century) and their descendants. After the 17th-century persecutions in eastern Europe, large numbers of these Jews resettled in western Europe, where they assimilated, as they had done in eastern Europe, with other Jewish communities. In time, all Jews who had adopted the “German rite” synagogue ritual were referred to as Ashkenazim to distinguish them from Sephardic (Spanish rite) Jews. Ashkenazim differ from Sephardim in their pronunciation of Hebrew, in cultural traditions, in synagogue cantillation (chanting), in their widespread use of Yiddish (until the 20th century), and especially in synagogue liturgy.

              Today Ashkenazim constitute more than 80 percent of all the Jews in the world, vastly outnumbering Sephardic Jews

              https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ashkenazi

          2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

            if you're really interested in the subject look up Sepharad and Ashkenaz Jews. As you can see, Israel is populated by "Special Jewish Group " (whatever that means) and not "Traditionally Sefaradic " (Semits) like the rest of the middle-east.

            Yep. It's complicated, and also one of the reasons why there can be problems. Assuming everyone is just 'Jewish' is like calling people 'Christian'. Based on beliefs, that may broadly be true but there are many flavors of Christianity that have lead to a lot of sectarian violence, schisms and hate. We've just had the Nov 5th celebrations here, and as well as celebrating insurrection, the full version of 'Remember, Remember the 5th of November' would probably be considered hate speech today given it's anti-Catholic sentiments. Then there's the troubles in the Orthodox faith with religious extremism and oppression within branches of that faith.

            Judaism has much the same, and has it's own sectarian issues that sometimes lead to conflict. There are differences in belief between branches of Judaism that Rabbinical councils can debate and rule on. There are people that exploit religion for political ambitions, which also leads to conflict. Jews can be critical of Israel's policies and actions, but might be regarded as 'anti-semetic' and self-haters, even though those criticisms may be valid. Russia bombs civilians and it's a war crime, Israel bombs civilians and it's ok because they're really terrorists. Criticism of Israel's policies isn't necessarily anti-semetic.

            That's especially true when Bibi comes out with statements declaring it's ok to slaughter the Amalek, men, women, children and livestock. Sure, that was an appeal to religious fundamentalists and a tad extreme for anyone who understands what it means. But then Bibi also channeled Isaiah-

            https://www.christianpost.com/news/netanyahu-defeating-hamas-will-make-prophecy-of-isaiah-a-reality.html

            “We shall realize the prophecy of Isaiah. There will no longer be stealing at your borders and your gates will be of glory. Together we will fight, together we will win.”

            Which if you have an interest in religion can be open to variations in interpretation. Isaiah's a prophet venerated in all the Abrahamic religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism. One interpretation is that $od called on Isaiah because the people of Israel were unruly, and needed to be brought inline or face a good smiting, so an internal threat that needed dealing with, not an external one. Is Bibi the Messiah, or just a very naughty boy who's desperate to cling on to power, avoid his court cases that are currently on hold, and views himself as being on a mission from $od? Those rarely end well..

            1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

              Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

              “We shall realize the prophecy of Isaiah. There will no longer be stealing at your borders and your gates will be of glory. Together we will fight, together we will win.”

              And one of GWB & Tony Blairs invasion of Iraq was to produce the "peace and safety" that will fortell the return of Christ. They ignored all the other stuff about not forcing prophecies and not trying to force God into action.

              How's that abundant "peace and safety" working for you eh?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

                The pursuit of peace and safety through force has been a feature of the US for a LOOOOONG time.

                Many a pile of bodies made for peace and safety.

                1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

                  Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

                  they make a desert, and call it peace...

      4. Groo The Wanderer

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        I got the point about Semits and semitism you were trying to make, and for the most part, I agree, except for your diversionary tactic on trying to explain it as "phobia." Anti-semitism and anti-islamic behavior are not "phobias" - they're hateful acts deeply rooted in psychological problems that leads one to blame others for one's own misfortunes and mistakes in life. And because we don't like just vaguely blaming "someone else", they blame particular groups of people for their woes.

        Realistically, I think that tendency of so many humans to blame vague groups of others for one's own mistakes and failings borders on being a characteristic of the species, even though most people don't follow racial or cultural lines in their labels and thinking. Instead they vaguely blame "management" or "politicians" for their problems, and very often, whomever happens to be "ruling" a nation at the time.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

          Soooo.. by this logic the people of Gaza should not be blaming the Israelis for the misfortune of living in Gaza and the mistake of voting for Hamas to be their leaders?

    4. Big_Boomer

      Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

      >If I post one antisemitic and one Islamophobic tweet, do they cancel out ?

      No, all they do is mark you out as a hate monger or a troll. 99% of those posting hate comments on anti-social media would not have the balls to make those same statements in front of people representing the group they are promoting hate towards. They feel all safe and brave hiding behind their keyboards. We all have things that we hate, but the civilised amongst us try keep such opinions to ourselves. Yes, I have failed in this instance but then I never claimed to be perfect.

    5. Furious Reg reader John

      Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

      "If I post one antisemitic and one Islamophobic tweet, do they cancel out ?" No, but it does show that you are a racist bell-end.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

        @Furious Reg reader John:

        "If I post one antisemitic and one Islamophobic tweet, do they cancel out ?"

        > No, but it does show that you are a racist bell-end

        No, it shows you have no sense of humor :]

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

          Surely a better test would involve your posting something humorous?

        2. Furious Reg reader John

          Re: Xitter has problems policing hate speech ?

          t245t -Yes, guilty on that front, but I'm not sure why you would expect me to find racism a laughing matter.

  11. Bebu
    Windows

    Ownership

    《I do believe people have the right to say what they think with just the one caveat that they have to own what they say》

    There is a lot to commend this point of view.

    Also require that where another dissents from a published opinion then reasonable access to the same platform for the dissenting arguments to be published alongside the original.

    Where clearly conterfactual claims are made the publisher should be obliged to clearly mark them so (with external references.) Such as much covid nonsense - link to NIH & CDCs.

    In the case of Xitter I don't think it matters much. Reasonably sane normal people would have abandoned the platform ages ago leaving the extremists and other nutters to shout at each other, albeit mostly in agreement. I don't really understand why these organisations waste their time patrolling these marches of insanity just to be offended. May well be here that the difference between the dog and the wolf is not that great.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ownership

      the problem is the insanity grooms the thick into joining that shit, how the fuck do you think the nazi's came to power.

      for ref see orange twats recent speeches mirroring hitler

  12. trevorde Silver badge

    Defies belief

    That people are still using Xitter

  13. Mitoo Bobsworth

    It's an X parrot

    - still, beautiful plumage, the Elongated Muskrat Blue.

  14. xyz Silver badge

    Forget about it...

    This is the juicy stuff...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-67416146

    Not a happy Braverman.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Forget about it...

      And rightly so.

      The Met bent the knee during the BLM protests yet when women wanted to hold a vigil after Sarah Everard was murdered by a serving Met officer they were met with a show of force and the wonderful optics of women protesting about women's safety face down in the mud with Met officers kneeling on them to restrain them.

      1. MiguelC Silver badge

        Re: The Met bent the knee during the BLM protests

        But they never meant it, it was just a question of optics

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The Met bent the knee during the BLM protests

          Which one? Bending the knee or using the knee?

    2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

      Re: Forget about it...

      She might not be happy, but I am.

      /me saunters off stage left, hands in pockets, whistling "ding dong the witch is dead"

      On a related note, was anyone else surprised to find when David Cameron came back that they were almost... pleased? I'm almost nostalgic to have someone in power that I merely disagree with - he didn't actively try to turn the country into an isolated racist island, or siphon millions of government funding into his own pockets. O how far we have fallen.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Forget about it...

        Err he was the one who called the brexit vote. Without Davey C we would not be in this position.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Forget about it...

        His lobbying for Greensill seems pretty close to siphoning government funds

        1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

          Re: Forget about it...

          Oh I know - he'd never get my vote. But compare lobbying for Greensill vs putting £120m directly in your own pocket, a la Michelle Mone... it seems almost genteel in comparison.

          Re. the Brexit vote above, he didn't think it would pass, which makes him an idiot - yes, one that did vast damage to the county. But compare to successive home office ministers Theresa May (throw out the black people!), Priti Patel (throw out the europeans!) or Suella Braverman (kill them all and let god decide!), he's certainly a step up [EDIT - I recall he's now FCO not Home Office, but whatever]

  15. LybsterRoy Silver badge

    Whilst I don't disagree with the fact that a lot of posts on the various forms of social media should not be there my cynical side interpreted the start of the article as "operation who's income depends on finding hate speech finds hate speech"

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      ...my cynical side interpreted the start of the article as "operation who's income depends on finding hate speech finds hate speech"

      There's an awful lot of money to be made from hate, not to mention political influence. Both the UK and EU are currently busily pushing out censorship legislation under the guise of 'anti-hate and anti-disinformation'. Most of this legislation is unncessary given there's existing legislation in most countries that covers hate speech and crimes. So if I keep shouting 'Kill X!' I could aready get my collar felt. Unless of course X is X and not a person, group with legally protected characteristics, a corporation or other entity covered by stuff like threatening behaviour, incitement, racial, religious discrimination etc etc. Which of course occasionally leads to interesting situations, like the ADL being sued for defamation for it's attacks on a lawful(ish) business and it's attempts to de-platform a platform.

      But many liberals never bothered really reading what Karl Popper famously said about tolerance and intolerance. And then there is..

      The CCDH told us it doesn't typically share its findings with the tech platforms it monitors prior to publication.

      Of course it doesn't. Why give the tech platforms an opportunity to react or fix perceived 'problems' when the objective is publicity and fund raising? They also don't seem to do irony with CCDL being part of "Stop Hate For Profit" when their revenues very much depend on hate. They're also a very diverse bunch finding hate and misinformation, so presumably have experts in the fields of religion, politics, medicine and of course, climate science. But that's the danger with censorship and defining 'misinformation', especially when what was previously considered 'misinformation' turns out to be correct.

      1. OAB

        Why give the tech platforms an opportunity to react or fix perceived 'problems' when the objective is publicity and fund raising?

        They reported the comments to X, two weeks later they were still there, what more opportunity to react or fix perceived 'problems' should they need?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "perceived 'problems'"

          This whole issue is summed up perfectly in those two words.

          What they are reporting are not actual illegal acts, just something that they personally see as something they don't like.

        2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          They reported the comments to X, two weeks later they were still there, what more opportunity to react or fix perceived 'problems' should they need?

          What were the comments? Where is the context? I'm sure it's easy enough to find 'hate speech' on the Internet, ie Clinton comparing Putin or Trump to Hitler, but that's the nature of the beast. DNFTT or simply ignore them. Or, if there's reasonable suspicion that comments are crossing the line into legally defined hate speech, why aren't these being reported to LEAs to potentially prosecute? One concern I have with simply banning, deleting or deplatforming stuff like this is it has a bad habit of driving it underground. Then it's harder to monitor, and instead of nutjobs ranting into the void, they find like minded individuals that might groom and encourage them.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            You don't know what hate speech is, do you?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Irony

    Is it ironic that a multitude feel righteous in calling on X to censor other's speech but feel unassailable on this platform?

    1. Furious Reg reader John

      Re: Irony

      Yes - the Register shouldn't be throwing those stones in its own glass house.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    block it

    the world is gonna get better, immediately (and all 354777848553636 sites peddling vpn will immediately get very rich)

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rock and a hard place. If they start censoring one they have to censor the other. That is not going to happen. This is the world we live in.

  19. naive

    Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

    Admitting to like Donald Trump or the Babylon Bee videos on youtube can easily be marked as hate speech these days.

    Mr. Musk should be awarded the congressional medal of honor for holding his ground in the massive stream of grey goo generated by leftists and their supporting elites in Brussels and Washington.

    Without men like Mr. Musk, the West would commit suicide due to the multiple internal wars it started: climate religion, allowing mass immigration by culturally non-aligned people, extermination of European identity, extermination of the middle class by reckless money printing and support of the lost cause Ukraine.

    Hate speech differs from calls to commit crimes against people, the latter should always be removed from any online platform.

    But I guess, this entry will be considered hate speech as well by most, "it should be removed".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

      We've now witnessed just how important Ukraine actually is/was to the west in the form of an epic pivot to Israel. It was nothing more than a (profitable) tool to the political elite (it got Germany off Russian gas and onto US LNG hurting the European economy and boosting the dollar) and a distraction for the masses. And we have a huge number of bodies piled up as a result.

      1. EvilDrSmith

        Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

        Currently the EU are working on a deal to provide Euro20 billion of additional aid and support to Ukraine over the next 4 years.

        This is in addition to measures already in progress, and to the support from individual nations both within and outside the EU that is in progress / has been promised - Germany declared only 2 days ago that German support for Ukraine is to be "massively expanded" in 2024, for instance, while training on F16 for operational debut next year continues apace.

        EU membership for Ukraine is progressing.

        From the right-side of the pond, it does appear that some with the US are seeking to use the current situation in Gaza to cut back on support to Ukraine in their war of survival against the Putin's genocide.

        This appears to be more to do with internal US politics than anything else.

        Fortunately, it appears that most Europeans (whether EU or not) understand the necessity of resisting tyranny, both because it's morally right, and because it is ultimately in our own self-interest. There is no 'epic pivot' away from Ukraine in Europe.

        The only person to blame for the huge number of bodies that are piling up is Putin.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

          You forget that the likes of Germany were very reluctant to support Ukraine early on.

          https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60155002

          1. EvilDrSmith

            Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

            I didn't forget.

            Yes, it is true that a fair number of countries in Europe and outside were slow to offer assistance. for various reasons, while others, such as the UK and some of the Scandinavian/Baltic/East European nations where providing aid from the start (or even in the days before the war started in February 2022).

            That does not alter the fact that in Europe now, there is no significant pivot from providing aid to Ukraine to Gaza/Israel, instead, there is a steady ramping up of assistance in terms of value, volume and capacity. Thanks to such assistance, Ukraine will get steadily stronger, and, it is to be hoped, will drive out the Russian aggressor.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

              Give it time, it will dry up. The major European economies can't afford it much longer.

              All that the aid has and will achieve is a HUGE body count. Just as the US aid to Israel is going to end up in Gaza being wiped from the planet.

              1. EvilDrSmith

                Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

                Well, the current discussions are taking us forward 4 years.

                We are now 630 days into Putin's 3-day special military operation, so that will take us to day 2090 of the 3-day operation.

                Russia is, in terms of GDP, shown to be the 11th largest economy.

                Ukraine is being supported by:

                USA (1) ; Germany (3), Japan (4), UK (6), France (7); Italy (8), Canada (10) plus many more (within and outside the EU) outside the top 10, plus the EU as separate entity.

                Having the US support gives access to global money markets through New York (which would not necessarily end even if US political opinion changes) and from the UK the City of London - the two global money markets that really matter, and which can raise huge sums of money. That money will be available to Ukraine and the nations supporting Ukraine. (A glance at history will show how vital but also reliable and effective the UK's ability to raise money through the City to finance war has been). Russia does not have any access to that level of funding.

                There is not the slightest possibility that "the major European economies can't afford it".

                However much Russia's supporters try to undermine democratic support for Ukraine against Russian aggression, financially at least, Russia cannot defeat Ukraine and the democracies.

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

                  We are now 630 days into Putin's 3-day special military operation, so that will take us to day 2090 of the 3-day operation.

                  I'm pretty sure you'll find the '3-day' thing was from Gen. Milley, soon to retire on a fat pension and corporate gigs. Raytheon etc thank him for his service.

                  Having the US support gives access to global money markets through New York (which would not necessarily end even if US political opinion changes) and from the UK the City of London - the two global money markets that really matter, and which can raise huge sums of money.

                  Uhuh. And.. how's Ukraine's credit rating looking right now? How was it looking before the conflict started? How well audited are Ukraine's accounts right now, to give prospective lenders some sense of security? Sure, the West's looking at alternative financing arrangements given we can't really keep pouring money into Ukraine's black hole. But mostly that's been UK HMG money, and will probably stay that way. So various governments borrowing from the banks to donate to Zelensky's pension fund.

                  Russia does not have any access to that level of funding.

                  Russia doesn't need it given it's a huge country with a huge amount of resources that still finds buyers outside of the self-sanctioning circle of the West

                  Russia cannot defeat Ukraine and the democracies.

                  Yet it seems to be doing a pretty good job so far. And now we have other conflicts to escalate. Also not sure what you mean by 'democracies'. Still can't find an election date for Ukraine. Plenty of people opposing Zelensky being arrested though. But it's a funny old world. The finger's being pointed at Ukraine for the Nord Stream pipeline explosion, which if true would be a clear attack on Germany, a NATO member. Germany's response? Have a few billion more! I'm not convinced the German people are going to put up with their leadership for much longer.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

                    Even the WaPo now says the Ukrainian's blew up the nord stream.

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-military-officer-coordinated-nord-stream-pipeline-attack/ar-AA1jLI1c

                    I still think there is a US connection as Biden did declare he would shut it down by any means necessary.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

                      And now the WSJ say we ain't gonna beat Putin

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/it-s-time-to-end-magical-thinking-about-russia-s-defeat/ar-AA1k28ij

    2. willyslick

      Re: Mr. Elon Musk doesn't budge

      Serious username and message alignment vibes on this one

  20. karlkarl Silver badge

    Twitter (temporarily known as X) is basically a chatroom...

    Who gives a shite what people write in chatrooms?

    Censoring a chatroom is like removing pieces of corn from a random dog turd on the street. It has no impact.

  21. sketharaman

    Private property

    Twitter / X is private property. It's none of the business of Wannabe Activists like CCDH to question what Musk has or does not have on it. Per law in many American states, property owners can shoot tresspassers, so shooting the messenger is not wrong in USA!

    1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

      Re: Private property

      Not private property, not any sort of property.

      1. sketharaman

        Re: Private property

        Elon Musk didn't become the richest guy on the planet by paying $44B for public property.

  22. Tron Silver badge

    Stop being scared of free speech.

    Censorship is a slippery slope.

    If people want to yell at each other on the internet, let them. They aren't banning you from saying stuff, so why are you trying to ban them? Do you want to live in a dictatorship where speech is controlled?

    1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

      Re: Stop being scared of free speech. @Tron

      The issue with what you say is that there are many people who used Twitter as a news feed, not a chat room, to the exclusion of more reputable news sources. These are the people who will be seriously affected by whatever is posted there.

      X/Twitter, by it's structure, can become an echo-box, so people can get to the point where they only take note of what 'interests' them, so action groups can become introverted and only seeing what they want to.

      Musk's idea and hope was that X/Twitter could become more representative of the entire spectrum of views, but that will ultimately be defeated by it's own set-up that encourages self-selection of the information seen by it's users. He had a noble idea, but unfortunately even owning X, he has not the slightest idea of how this very broad desire can be achieved. It is his rather arrogant stance that it's a problem that can be fixed by his aggressive business style that is his biggest delusion.

  23. Felonmarmer

    Scaping the barrel

    Looking at what people are posting as evidence that they are posting hate speech is against X's terms and conditions.

    I can't see that working in court, or looking at bank accounts to find evidence of criminal activities would go out the window. It would take a lot of traffic of Cypriot banks though if all banks could carry out dodgy transactions without fear of exposure.

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