back to article Windows 11 23H2 is a Teams effort but Microsoft already spoiled the best bits

The next major Windows 11 update has lurched into the light, containing a few new enhancements as well as other features that have trickled out of Redmond over the last month or so. 23H2 was supposed to be a big release for Microsoft's flagship operating system. However, thanks to the company deciding to emit many of the …

  1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Family friendly

    It was still Teams, but with a friends and family focus it was aimed at consumers and required a personal Microsoft account.

    To translate - it means it lacks any spying tools?

    I wonder why it is fine to spy on an employee, but if done to a spouse then it amounts to domestic abuse.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Family friendly

      Are you saying you now wish you'd employed your wife?

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: Family friendly

        My wife is free range.

  2. tfewster

    Less is more

    > On work or school machines, users could find themselves in the slightly confusing position of having a pair of Teams links on the taskbar.

    Ah, that explains it. I uninstalled the crap version so Windows didn't keep pushing it when I wanted to use the work version.

    1. Mishak Silver badge

      Re: Less is more

      Mine now has three:

      1) The "Family" one that it keeps pushing at me when I type "Teams" in the search.

      2) "Old Teams for Work", that only allows me to use one business account.

      3) "New Teams for Work", which is the one I use.

      The machine is so locked down that I need to get round to finding an admin to remove the ones I don't want/use.

  3. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

    My pet bug is still in there though...

    You still cannot view local shadowcopies in explorer or any other program. The previous versions tab is just empty or your get a weird error in other programs. I've been using shadowcopies since Windows XP SP2, and once you get used to be able to correct minor program misbehaviours, like games nuking their only one save file, you don't want to be without it. So I will stay with Win11 21H2 for nested-V on AMD until it is fixed.

    Luckily someone at Microsoft saw my constant complaining in various forums, reproduced it and made it a "Bug important enough o be fixed", so it might be fixed in early 2024. Probably just early enough before the Linux users make fun of it or until the bigger rollouts come along with more people missing their beloved previous versions.

    (I know, shadowcopy does not replace backup. But I have an hourly shadowcopy for C:, and every four hours for the other drives using my scripts, something you cannot do that easily with a backup...)

    1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

      Re: My pet bug is still in there though...

      Your scripts sound a lot like they're basically doing what Apple does with TimeMachine. You'd think Microsoft would have caught on by now that TimeMachine is actually quite a nice selling point for Macs.

      1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

        Re: My pet bug is still in there though...

        I don't know intimately how TimeMachine works and whether it can actually be compared. From what I grasped in IT-news it requires another drive to be used? Which would compare it more to the normal internal Windows Backup - which is somewhat half-a**ed like way too much Microsoft stuff.

        1. W.S.Gosset

          Re: TimeMachine algorithm

          I accidentally wrote it in 1997.

          3 root dirs: Live, Old, New.

          Run a "find" on Live.

          At each node in Live, create a node in New, via a simple if-test:

          * Compare Live & Old nodes:

          A/ different or new/missing: create New node as copy of Live node

          B/ same: create New node as hard-link of Old node

          The End

          Rsync will apparently do this automatically for you now. But it's only a few lines in shell.

          1. W.S.Gosset

            Re: TimeMachine algorithm

            > a few lines in shell

            shell allows easy flexibility, too. Useful for unusual, heterogeneous, or constrained situations.

            Eg, I gave a script to a video+graphics guy who was jamming backup disks due to wanting frequent snapshots of work in progress on fatfiles.

            Multiple backup schedules; just plonk each rootdir in appropriate array (use instead of vars to cope seamlessly with spaces in filenames).

            Hourly for main work files.

            And then just prune the Old trees to manage space constraints. Eg:

            * Keep hourly snapshots for a week.

            * Keep only weekly snapshots for 3mths.

            * Keep only monthly snapshots for a year.

            * Keep only quarterly snapshots for 5 years.

            * Keep only Final thereafter.


            shell is wonderful.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My pet bug is still in there though...

        Agreed, Personally I think time machine is one of the best pieces of software Apple have ever produced. I would love something similar for Linux!

        1. jilocasin

          Re: My pet bug is still in there though...

          Have you tried "backintime" for Linux?

          It's what I've been using for years.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: My pet bug is still in there though...

            oooh, that looks pretty good. I shall have a play.

            Thanks for the link

  4. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge

    Hopefully they've fixed Bluetooth

    I'm not sure if it was a patch or driver update or what, but my Bluetooth headsets stopped working reliably, and recently, the microphones stopped working at all. I found a workaround that sort of works, but come on . . . it's 2023, and Bluetooth should be a solved problem! Based on this thread, it looks like the problem started in September for quite a few people.

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: Hopefully they've fixed Bluetooth

      I recently had to do a "driver rollback to previous version" for the Built-In Intel Audio oy my work Laptop, else it would only work after booting twice. May be the same for you, bad driver.

    2. TangoDelta72

      Re: Hopefully they've fixed Bluetooth - You using a Dell XPS ####?

      The thread you posted brought back some painful memories.

      I had a similar situation with my BT speakers (only BT device connected to my Dell XPS 8930). High-level observation was that BT was no longer a capability acknowledged by the machine after a Patch Tuesday event. The BT option in Settings had the On/Off toggle greyed out, too. I did the typical things: uninstall/reinstall drivers & devices, reboot, Restore from a restore point, etc. and no luck. I spent three hours with a Dell tech and no luck, either, so they sent me a box to send the PC back for a MB replacement.

      While waiting for the box to arrive, more research online finally found a dead-simple fix: you'll need to uninstall the device in Device Manager then power down the machine and - here's the important bit - UNPLUG the machine from the wall. Let it sit for 10 minutes. Apparently the capacitors on the sound/BT card retain bad settings even after a reboot, so a reboot never really clears the underlying problem since the power remains to the MB.

      Hope this helps.

      1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

        Re: Hopefully they've fixed Bluetooth - You using a Dell XPS ####?

        > power remains to the MB.

        Nice hint! Sounds logical that quite some chips retain their current state, thanks to ATX. I never liked that anyway since ever the ATX standard surfaced. But "Wake up on LAN magic packet" and a few other less important things only work that way.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge

          Re: Hopefully they've fixed Bluetooth - You using a Dell XPS ####?

          There was a issue that hit quite a few of our laptop users in September..

          Among the steps in fixing it

          Reinstate the old F8 Safe Mode menu (Just for my sanity).

          Disabling Bluetooth in the BIOS.

          Disabling Driver reinforcement.

          Installing a chunk of CRITICAL driver updates from Dell released in August.

          Reversing all the prior changes.

          Fortunately I only had the one to deal with.

      2. Stevie

        Re: Hopefully they've fixed Bluetooth - You using a Dell XPS ####?

        Had this same “fix” for a BT mouse that occasionally would disconnect because BT was AWOL.

        After about a year and a half of periodic faffing about as my temper rose, I discovered the BT service was set to “manual” start. Changing that to always-on seems to have solved the problem. It certainly brought back BT in one swell foop instead of the two, three or twenty seven tries the other techniques required.

  5. munnoch Bronze badge

    Teams is all the rage nowadays

    That's pretty much the reaction it induces in me....

    1. sarusa Silver badge

      Re: Teams is all the rage nowadays

      Teams is worst in class garbage, but companies love it because it's 'free' (if you ignore all the support and usage issues).

      1. Tim 11

        Re: Teams is all the rage nowadays

        What I've got from this article (and my experience with it) is that Microsoft have been at the old product renaming game again. much like Skype, "Teams" is the current name for a bunch of unrelated code-bases all to do with instant messaging. They are probably all world-class garbage but I'm damn sure they aren't the same product.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: Teams is all the rage nowadays

          Ah well that's where the mess of Microsoft comes in.

          Skype as an amazingly useful product, peer-to-peer and provided great connectivity for millions around the world. Especially when people lived in different countries.

          Microsoft bought Skype and decided to centralise it, so everything went through Microsoft's servers instead. This provided more opportunity for revenue and advertising but much worse performance for many users. At this point in time "skype" was pretty much a verb, as in you would "skype someone".

          Microsoft also had the shit-show that was Lync, Microsoft's take on telephony. It was an indescribably awful product, prone to random failures, utterly annoying to try and manage and best avoided at all costs. It also the Lync client which was yet another of Microsoft's instant messaging applications (does anybody even remember MSN/M Messager now?). To ensure confusion, Microsoft renamed the Lync client Skype for Business which was lovely except for some utterly odd reason, users were confused as to why Skype and Skype for Business were not interoperable (can't think why). Through various botched updates to both, Microsoft implemented a little compatibility between the two Skypes but it was also half-arsed and almost never worked.

          Then a quick hack project came up called "Teams" and Microsoft decided that rather than continue the existing strong brand of Skype that they'd call this "Teams" and use it for business use. Oh, and then decide later to foist it on non-business users which really is plumbing the depths of crap branding. One does not "teams" one's mother. Not in the civilised world, anyway. This limited hack project then had more crap added to it, hence the appalling inconsistent and very unintuitive user interface and that it took so long for it to, sort of, support more than one account.

          Now we have Teams Classic, Teams Basic, Teams Professional, Teams New, Teams, Teams (embedded into Windows 11) and doubtless a few other naming horrors in the shit show that is Microsoft marketing and development. It's becoming more and more annoying to interact with external parties through Teams as when it fails, and it does, we just don't know what version they might happen to be using. Hell, ensuring a consistent version internally within an organisation is near impossible.

          So with previous form, Microsoft have bought an established product/name and murdered it. Another notable one was Hotmail which at one point was quite popular, but is now "Outlook" - except when it's "office" of course!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Teams is all the rage nowadays

      Yup, at work they switched from shared networkdrives and your own piece of network drive to teams and sort of onedrive.

      It sucks monkeyballs. The 356 version of Outlook and the office suite is also crappier than before.

      1. Red~1

        Re: Teams is all the rage nowadays

        Does that version come with 9.25 days of downtime on average, a year?

  6. chivo243 Silver badge

    Bad penny…

    It’s back, ack! It just won’t go away! The missus has just purchased a gaming laptop it comes with win11 Hobbled Edition, I’ve already said “you’re on your own “.

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: Bad penny…

      You won't escape. Neither Win11 nor your wife. Though the latter is a matter you can do something about.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge

        Re: Bad penny…

        She’s a Mac user daily, but games, the games… most titles she likes aren’t available for macOS. So, like I said, she’s on her own.

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: The Wife

      I told her that she was on her own.

      The next day, she moved out.

      Now, I'm on my own.

      At least my house is now Windows free.

      But like Patch Tuesday, the old things keep coming back.

      Hello darling.... :)

      Only joking darling... honest.

  7. Sparkus

    Easy enough to roll your own distro

    With Ntlite.........

  8. BenMyers

    Skype etc

    We've seen with Skype what Microsoft has done before with another product, a slick one that would move programs from one computer to another, including treatment of all the associated registry entries. Well, that would cut down on sales of Microsoft's own products, wouldn't it? So Microsoft bought the product and promptly killed it, emulating the National Enquirer's "catch and kill" of Trump' pecadilloes. Same with Skype. Buy it. Let people use it with not attention or enhancement from Microsoft, then offer Teams and kill Skype. Microsoft arbitrarily kills perfectly good products, creating a lot of discomfort for people who use it and depend on it. Outlook Express is another fine example of a product killed.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Skype etc

      I was with you until you got to Outlook Express. That thing deserved to be shot into the sun and removed from history (shudders) or, at best, used as an example of hundreds of ways NOT to do something.

    2. yoganmahew

      Re: Skype etc

      MS Communicator was perfect. Copy/paste formatting? Check. Local storage? Check. Crystal clear audio? Check.

      Everything since has been worse, sometimes worser (that awful Cisco yoke for example).

      Teams is Corporate Policy gone mad :(

  9. Stevie


    I used Skype at Xmas to talk with my kid and her hubby, and then had to change the physical port the camera was plugged into to get proper functionality back for Discord for my monthly Space 1889 game. Not keen on repeating that.

    Teams, however is a cowpat in the field of interpersonal communications. Intrusive, because managers now feel they can schedule meetings at a moment’s notice during (unpaid) lunch hours, and managers snug in their offices do not hear the chaos of multiple competing Teams meetings in a cube farm. And try as I might, I have not found a way of deleting a “contact” from Teams once one has foolishly added it, which is why during lockdown I used an old, damaged iPad (which has no contact lists to “helpfully” scrape for me) for teams and would not allow it on my new shiny iPad or my personal phone.

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