back to article Biden's facing the clock to veto Apple Watch import ban after ITC patent ruling

The Apple Watch is once again facing a possible US import ban again after the country's International Trade Commission determined the wearable violated patents held by Masimo for measuring blood oxygen levels. The limited exclusion order issued on Thursday would prevent the iGiant from bringing Apple Watches with the …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. martinusher Silver badge

    Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

    I don't think Masimo wants to stop Apple from selling watches. They just want a slice of the pie.

    I wonder where they're importing them from? It used to be China, it probably still is even though they're moving manufacturing to Vietnam it takes some time to ramp up production (and I'd guess that regardless of where the watch is assembled the internals are still mostly Chinese....you've got to get the parts and assemblies from somewhere....)

    1. Groo The Wanderer Bronze badge

      Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

      Wanting to be paid a fair amount for your patent is the way patents are supposed to work. There is nothing wrong here except with Apple's behaviour.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

        Not even just a patent. They had a working product which Apple to all intents and purposes stole.

        1. JimboSmith Silver badge

          Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

          Not even just a patent. They had a working product which Apple to all intents and purposes stole.

          Ah but did it have rounded corners?

          1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

            Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

            Wasn't funny 10 years ago, still isn't.

            1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

              Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

              Raging fanboi is still entertaining, though.

              1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

                Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

                Let me know when you find one.

            2. MrZoolook

              Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

              It is, actually.

      2. Twilight

        Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

        I agree that is how patents are supposed to work. I don't agree that that necessarily leads to Apple doing something wrong.

        At least in the US, a TON of (most?) patents should never have been issued (existing prior art, obvious to anyone working in the industry, etc). I don't know enough about Masimo's patents to say if that is the case here or not.

        1. MrDamage Silver badge

          Re: Its just someone wanting a slice of the action

          Masimo is a known, and respected manufacturer or medical devices, so their patents would likely stand up to scrutiny.

          But ironic how you agree a lot of US patents shouldn't exist, when half of Apple's patents seem to be "existing tech, BUT ON A PHONE!!!!!11111oneone!!1"

  3. Yorick Hunt Silver badge
    Devil

    Live by the sword...

    ... die by the sword.

    Knowing Apple though, no doubt they'll now launch into a multi-year (or even multi-decade) legal joust, spending far more money on legal fees than they would have to simply stump up for licencing/royalties.

    1. Falmari Silver badge

      Re: Live by the sword...

      "Knowing Apple though, no doubt they'll now launch into a multi-year (or even multi-decade) legal joust, spending far more money on legal fees than they would have to simply stump up for licencing/royalties."

      Exactly what they do. https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-patents-5b52cda0 It's how all these big tech companies operate Apple Microsoft Google.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Live by the sword...

        Shame full article behind paywall, but this quote looks interesting…

        “ Apple said that it doesn't steal technology and that it respects the intellectual property of other companies. It said Masimo and other companies cited in this article are copying Apple”

        We await Apple taking on Masimo, to have Masimo’s prior patents declared invalid, and thus leaving the door open for Apple to sue Masimo for (Apple) patent infringement…

        H2G2 fiction becoming reality…

        1. Falmari Silver badge

          Re: Live by the sword...

          I got to see full article seems you get to read 1 free article first visit, have to pay a after that.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Live by the sword...

            Here's the archive.ph link.

            Thanks for posting it. What Apple did was despicable, unsurprisingly.

            1. Falmari Silver badge

              Re: Live by the sword...

              @Dan 55 thanks for posting the archive link so those who can't view my link can see how Apple operate.

              I found the article when I was searching for background on the ITC ruling as this article was the first I had heard of this dispute. The first legal action started in 2020 and there have been at least 2 trials one found in Masimo favor (being appealed by Apple) and one was a mistrial (hung jury).

              I agree the way Apple operate is despicable, but what none of the articles I have read point out is that Apple released their watch knowing that it infringed Masimo's patents. It would be impossible for Apple not to know, having employed 30 of Masimo employees one of which was Masimo's chief medical officer who's name is on some of those patents. Apple may claim that the patents are overly broad etc. and seek to invalidate them. But if Apple believed the patents are invalid why did they not file petitions to the patent appeal board seeking to invalidate them in the preceding 5 years before they went to market.

              That would be both easier and less costly for Apple. If the are upheld then Apple have to design around them or license, if they are invalidated then Masimo can't sue Apple. But it would also be less costly for Masimo and Apple don't want that. They want to drag it out make it cost Masimo so much to defend their patents they will not be able to afford it and have to give up even if the patents are valid.

              1. MachDiamond Silver badge

                Re: Live by the sword...

                "I have read point out is that Apple released their watch knowing that it infringed Masimo's patents"

                I released a product knowing it violated another company's patent. I also knew that the basis of their patent appeared in a text book a few decades prior. Apple may have thought they could get the patent cancelled and wound up betting wrong. Going to court is always a gamble and a big company often has a huge target painted on them because a judge/jury wants to find against them.

                Doesn't affect me as I'm not planning on buying anybody's watch. Everything electronic has a clock on it now and I don't need to see who's calling as anybody 'I' want to talk to has a non-default ringtone. The rest can leave a message that I can easily delete when I can get around to it.

        2. Groo The Wanderer Bronze badge

          Re: Live by the sword...

          Apple steals technology all the time; look at their long history of being sued for patent theft and violation. Like most megacorps, the only thing they "respect" is increased profits.

    2. Youngone Silver badge

      Re: Live by the sword...

      "...even the world's largest company is not above the law."

      Except it is to all intents and purposes.

  4. FlamingDeath Silver badge

    Biden

    Does Biden get any work done between him soiling himself and getting lost?

    1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Biden

      LOW ENERGY! SAD!

    2. Fred Goldstein

      Re: Biden

      Actual, non-alternative fact: Trump wears adult diapers. Also fact: Trump and his supporters are often projecting.

    3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: Biden

      Amazing how plain some people are thinking leadership really does ALL work.

      Its physically impossible for one person to do what you are thinking...

      1. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Biden

        Bold of you to assume there was a single thought process involved in the post.

  5. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

    Dont you love American journalism sorry democracy where only CEOs have a voice.

    1. garwhale Bronze badge

      Think

      CEOs don't have the time to steer all articles written by journalists; that's not what they are paid for anyway. Left leaning independant journalism would not take direction from say Apple executives.

      1. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Think

        No "investigative journalist" would take direction from anyone on how to write their article. "Reporters" on the other hand......

      2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: Think

        Pathetic. Its unbalanced, extreme focus on a few that enables dictatorship and other cults to form. Im simply stating the truth not seeking to pinpoint who is responsible for this undemocratic shameful practice.

        The problem with America is there cult like practices, whether its inventing more religions or fake family claims about corporations or the media concentration like this.

  6. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    Dark Skinned? SPO2?

    I presume the watch operates on the same technology/principle as the fingertip pulse oximeters - if that is indeed the case, then, have Apple also solved the issue with reduced accuracy of the readings for dark skinned individuals? One also presumes that there are appropriate disclaimers provided with the watches...

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18048893/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15791098/

    1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: Dark Skinned? SPO2?

      Not sure how this is relevant, apart from an attempt to shoehorn race into literally every conceivable discussion.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

        Re: Dark Skinned? SPO2?

        This particular aspect was highlighted during Covid, with even medics not considering the limitations.

        Just saying... If you are otherwise healthy, then it shouldn't matter. Else, just use it as another item to consider.

        1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

          Re: Dark Skinned? SPO2?

          It has zero relevance here on a patent article. Go racebait somewhere else.

  7. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

    Amazingly, Masimo aren't a patent troll. I was 99% ready to pile in on this and say they deserve nothing, scum of the world restricting innovation etc etc, but reading up on them as a company they appear to actually have a set of products around in vivo monitoring, and the patent appears to be valid.

    Curious where this will end up.

  8. teknopaul

    Rich

    Rich so often means prepared to pay lawyers rather than pay humans.

    Apple refusing to pay for patents, despite the deepest pockets in the world massive margins and even tho it lives by abusing the same system.

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