back to article Japan cruises ahead with drive-thru EV charging trial

Researchers in Japan are preparing to test out technology that enables electric vehicles to charge wirelessly while still moving, which could lead to drivers not needing to plug in and charge up as frequently, as well as lighter vehicles with fewer batteries. The demonstration involves power transmission coils embedded into …

  1. Roger Greenwood

    Wow

    I make that about 72kW (very rough numbers), quite a rate of charge to achieve with no wires. Must be some strong magnetic fields involved.

    1. Chris Gray 1

      Re: Wow

      These things are worth trying, but I think there have been lots of questions about practicality, efficiency and safety.

      Is wear and tear on connectors that big an issue? I know the scale is completely different, but my cellphone has survived 10 or so years of every-second-day charging, using just a micro-USB. Its on its 3rd battery.

      Also, I don't know in general, but the electric buses we have here use an overhead charging system where a pantograph-like thing raises up from the roof of the bus to contact charging bars in the ceiling of the bus garage ("bus barn"). When down, they are disguised from paranoid folks by some higher side "wings" on the bus.

      1. probgoblin

        Re: Wow

        > I know the scale is completely different, but my cellphone has survived 10 or so years of every-second-day charging, using just a micro-USB. Its on its 3rd battery.

        Your on your third battery but how many cables have you gone through?

        1. Chris Gray 1

          Re: Wow

          Just the one. Although its got some tape around it near the mini-USB.

          1. probgoblin

            Re: Wow

            Wild. It feels like I go through a cable or two a year, and I had to replace my phone a few months back because the port stopped working for data. It still charged but wouldn't talk to anything. In the port's defense, I swapped it out for a new one and still nothing so the issue was probably somewhere on the board.

      2. munnoch Bronze badge

        Re: Wow

        Saw the same thing in Lido Venice earlier this year.

        Was confused by the buses driving past the restaurant with these pantograph type things on the roof but no overhead wires. A short walk later I found one parked up between runs with its pantograph extended and 'plugged into" a sort of umbrella contraption above it.

        Not really gonna work for cars though...

    2. Natalie Gritpants Jr

      Re: Wow

      Well, it's probably safer than having 440V prongs coming out of the tarmac and trying to find a suitable receptacle on the wet metal underside of your car. Will keep your bicycle handlebars warm too.

    3. zuckzuckgo
      Joke

      Re: Wow

      > I make that about 72kW (very rough numbers) ...

      Maybe that's why BMW decided to stop charging a monthly fee for seat warmers, soon we may not need them. Just make sure there is no metal in your pants pocket or it could get toastie.

  2. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Vehicle ID based charging

    Mostly unrelated, but EVgo in the US are trialing a no app, no card, no RFID, no faffing about, vehicle-ID based charging.

    So normally you pull up to a charger and spend 5-10 minutes messing about with an app or card or RFID token to convince it to charge your vehicle. It's a pain.

    Turns out newer vehicles can do data over the charger port and can send their VIN to the charger, which can then correlate that with an account and fund info.

    Which means you drive up to the charger, plug in, and a couple seconds later, it just starts charging.

    It's a HUGE improvement.

    Check out https://www.evgo.com/autocharge/ for the details. In the FAQ, they actually do address security/hacking/fraud issues.

    1. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Vehicle ID based charging

      Odd how ICE vehicles managed to recharge their energy storage for decades without apps, cards, RFIDs or transmitting any information to anyone... but in this brave new world being inconvenienced for the sake of data slurpage seems to be the new normal.

      ... and before anyone asks, yes, I am a sad luddite

      1. Grogan Silver badge

        Re: Vehicle ID based charging

        I'm an angry, resentful luddite and I say no to this silly shit, period. I'll be driving a gasoline vehicle for the rest of my lifetime.

        Electric vehicles are impractical. They don't have the power, speed or acceleration that I want. They are expensive to purchase and to service, and batteries have a finite life. Also, now that charging stations are neither plentiful nor free, it's laughable how people have to structure their whole lives around charging these vehicles.

        This automated, induction charging sounds good in theory, but good luck with that. it might be an adjunct to charge cycles, but it's not something that will be reliable (the first traffic jam will expose that)

        I wouldn't be adverse to a hybrid though, but the jury is still out on how that's going to play out with maintenance costs. My octogenarian parents have one (a Ford) and it's been great, but it cost about as much as a small house around here and it's still pretty new and nothing has gone wrong with it.

        1. Chris Gray 1

          Re: Vehicle ID based charging

          I'll consume a bit of flamebait....

          "acceleration"

          You do recall the early stories about how the Tesla Model S beat the gas supercars in 0-60 acceleration?

        2. Andrew Hodgkinson

          Re: Vehicle ID based charging

          I'm an angry, resentful luddite and I say no to this silly shit, period. I'll be driving a gasoline vehicle for the rest of my lifetime.

          I mean, yes to the first bit - just let me plug in and wave a contactless credit or debit card at the reader, just like at a petrol pump. Job done. Totally agree that all the data collection bullshit is exactly that - bullshit.

          Trouble is, you then just go right off the rails with major, huge inaccuracies...

          Electric vehicles are impractical. They don't have the power, speed or acceleration that I want.

          Given that even a Telsa mom-and-pop-mobile has been shown to have more power, more speed and more acceleration than a supercar, I have to conclude that you're full of it here. So let's put numbers to it. Tell us your current car, so we can get power, top speed and acceleration. I presume you're driving on racing tracks for fun a lot, though, because otherwise "top speed" is a bit pointless given 70mph limits on the fastest roads in the UK.

          They are expensive to purchase

          That is true. While the prices are dropping, it's going to be a very long time (if ever, since the industry sees an opportunity to price gouge for increased margin) that they'll drop to ICE prices spec-for-spec.

          and to service

          That is absolutely untrue, and is one of the principle reasons so many commercial outfits are changing their van fleet over to electric. Electric cars are dramatically simpler than ICE and have a correspondingly lower service cost.

          and batteries have a finite life

          They do, but EVs don't have a clutch, gearbox or combusion engine, and your clutch, gearbox and engine all have very much a finite life and cost a great deal to service year-on-year and even more to replace. I think you'll also find that the "finite life" of a battery for a modern (say, post-2020's design date) EV even in heavy duty commercial use is order-of-a-few-decades, which would be a good lifespan for any personal vehicle with any powertrain.

          The Leaf, while being a useful pioneer and still a good car, caused a lot of the misconceptions here as it basically has no battery management at all to speak of - no active cooling or heating, very little lifespan management as far as I can tell. Very few other EVs, even "budget" models, have such limitations.

          Teslas have been around easily long enough for numerous owners to report 100,000 mile (one hundred thousand mile) updates for batteries and the TL;DR is it looks like the overwhelming majority, without doing anything special, of late-2010s Tesla owners expect their battery to retain useful range for around 500,000 miles - half a million miles! - you want to try and tell me that ICEs are good for half a million miles, now?! (Typical report is of a ~10% range loss at the 100,000 mile point with rate of loss reducing thereafter).

          Also, now that charging stations are neither plentiful nor free, it's laughable how people have to structure their whole lives around charging these vehicles.

          Surely you're not that blinded by your combustion engine life? Most people visit a charging station rarely; some people, never. The idea that EV drivers "structure their whole lives" around charging their cars is absolutely absurd, to the point of laughing out loud that you'd state such a thing. In your ICE car, you must drive to a petrol station whenever it's running low on fuel - you've absolutely no choice in that - yet I'd never state that ICE vehicle owners structure their whole lives around going to petrol stations.

          Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of trips are far, far shorter than the EV's maximum range, with no charging required at all. At home, the EV is topped up overnight. With an EV, you have the option of never visiting the equivalent of a petrol station, ever should you choose. You can even generate your own fuel via wind generators or solar on your own home. None of that is possible with ICE vehicles.

          This automated, induction charging sounds good in theory, but good luck with that.

          Oh for sure, it's total nonsense. People have looked at this before numerous times but it's just wildly inefficient and causes all sorts of unacceptable risks due to the magnetic fields involved. In particular, got a pacemaker? Ah, shit...

          1. Blank Reg

            Re: Vehicle ID based charging

            While an EV can certainly beat a ICE supercar in speed and acceleration, it can't do it for very long. High speed and acceleration isn't sustainable due to the high drain and resulting heating of the battery. That's why formula e races are so short, and until very recently they had to swap cars half way through the race as they could only last around 25 minutes.

            Routine repair costs should be lower for well made evs, which leaves out Teslas. But repair costs from accidents can be huge even for relatively small accidents. If the battery is damaged then the car is often written off.

            1. The Bobster

              Re: Vehicle ID based charging

              Indeed. Try doing 50 launch control starts in an EV and see if you even get close to double figures. Here's Road & Track doing that in a 2014 911 Turbo S. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o

          2. chriskno

            Re: Vehicle ID based charging

            My Leaf is 5 years old, nearly 30,000 miles (not used much during the pandemic), and the battery is still showing 100% availability. There is still a lot to learn about how well the batteries will last as EVs are still a relatively new technology, but for sure they are a lot better than originally expected. And at end of its life in the car there is still likely to be 75 to 80% available which can be reused as a powerwall. There is a burgeoning industry in recycling batteries with 95% recoverability of the components. Have you ever seen petrol or diesel being recycled? Face the reality, burning fossil fuels is bad on every matrix you look at.

        3. HereAndGone

          Re: Vehicle ID based charging

          "Electric vehicles are impractical. They don't have the power, speed or acceleration that I want."

          Just press lightly on the accelerator and you can have the same performance as an ICE vehicle.

        4. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

          Re: Vehicle ID based charging

          EVs don’t have the acceleration? You have no idea what you’re talking about.

          I’m sure Wikipedia can educate you on how electric motors work, or just find someone with a Porsche Taycan and ask them to demonstrate the “launch control” feature.

        5. Doctor Tarr

          Re: Vehicle ID based charging

          “ I'm an angry, resentful luddite and I say no to this silly shit, period. I'll be driving a gasoline vehicle for the rest of my lifetime”

          You do Luddite’s a disservice. They get a bad rap but supported workers rights and the skilled guilds in petitioning the government for better conditions.

          You are not a Luddite but you are ignorant.

        6. Alan_P

          Re: Vehicle ID based charging

          OK, I’ll bite. My KIA EV6 GT-Line does 0-60 in under 5 seconds, the GT model does it under 4 (500+ HP motor). I have a home charger so no problem for me. I am retired and don’t travel any more distance than max range of the vehicle (about 275-300 miles) Not for everyone maybe, but for me I wouldn’t drive anything else. So much disinformation out there regarding EVs.

    2. HereAndGone

      Re: Vehicle ID based charging

      Wow, that's amazing!

      That will show Tesla who's at the forefront of innovation.

  3. Tron Silver badge

    Very clever, but there is a problem.

    It makes anyone buying an EV before this is rolled out, an early adopter/crash test dummy/beta tester, buying very expensive kit that will become obsolete rather sooner than cars usually do.

    So what happens to the green transition if everyone now waits for them to do it better with v.2.0?

    1. cornetman Silver badge

      Re: Very clever, but there is a problem.

      Yeah, I fully expect us to do a few rounds like this until we figure out a system that will work for society. It's going to be expensive for some people and we will end up with a lot of dead-end innovation for sure.

      I'm reminded of the lightbulb CFL fiasco, where we went down an awful route of using devices with fairly complex construction, mercury, failure to dim (in most cases), a need to warm up, and a life that I found substantially less than advertised.

      Until we managed to make LED bulbs workable for the masses at a scale that makes them affordable.

      1. BenDwire Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Very clever, but there is a problem.

        My sentiments entirely.

        Does anyone want to buy a load of unused CFL lamps? Anyone ?

        1. jonathan keith

          Re: Very clever, but there is a problem.

          By sheer coincidence I ran across this in my YouTube feed yesterday:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AdBcTMHG0Q

  4. wub

    Mild climate

    The test area is in Chiba prefecture, and according to Wikipedia the weather is pretty mild there. Doesn't freeze much, and not terribly hot. So the interesting problems of heavy vehicles driving over the dissimilar materials (charging coils embedded in the road surface material) are minimized. I bet they don't have a lot of potholes there, and they don't spread salt around to melt ice on the road. These are some of the potential difficulties that came to mind while I was reading about testing and durability.

    I am curious about the issues that might fall into the "safety" category.

  5. DS999 Silver badge

    Wouldn't you need to be pretty accurately lined up?

    Apple resorted to using magnets to insure the best wireless charging efficiency (that's now part of a Qi standard update) and maximum efficiency is even more important at the power levels wireless car charging will require. I guess they could paint something on the road so you knew where to stop rather than getting up close to the car ahead, and have a light on your dashboard tell you when to stop at optimal alignment?

    I would also think that climates where it gets cold enough for frequent freeze/thaw cycles would be an issue. I can't imagine they could have too much material over the coils, a small crack would be enough to allow water to get down, expand the crack, and then the water can reach the coil. I'm assuming that's not desirable.

    1. Doctor Tarr

      Re: Wouldn't you need to be pretty accurately lined up?

      I would hope that for a production system there is some kind of beacon / gps / alignment paint which directs the car to the right position.

  6. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

    The problem you don't see

    A lot of Japanese homes have 6kW power hookups. Modern homes may have 12kW. Even overnight charging at home is tricky.

    US homes are wired for at least 24kW so there's no problem installing a 12kW outlet.

    1. HereAndGone

      Re: The problem you don't see

      You are assuming maximum home charging, but that's mostly unnecessary.

      Based upon the typical daily drive in the U.S., 3kW is generous, 1.5kW would meet the majority of needs.

      I suspect the typical daily drive in Japan is probably even less, plus you schedule your charge off peak so you're not competing with cooking. We're talking toaster oven power levels.

    2. dave 76

      Re: The problem you don't see

      A significant proportion of Japanese homes in Tokyo do not even have parking at home, you park your car in a parking lot. I'm starting to see charging stations appear there, but is still few and far between.

      Seems there is a lot of difficulty to get a working Wireless charging solution, will be interesting to see if this implementation is able to address any of the issues.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: The problem you don't see

        A significant proportion of Japanese homes in Tokyo do not even have parking at home

        That's the case in a lot of dense urban areas, you may park in a multistory garage, an outdoor lot, or on the street. If wireless power could be delivered to a car reasonably efficiently then it might make sense to put the coils where people park and avoid the need to plug in/unplug every day. Just need a little protocol between the car and charging system to handle details like billing and if the owner wants to set any limitations like waiting until rates are the cheapest or whatever.

        It is hard to see how charging coils embedded in roadways which are subject to far more stress and potential damage than parking places would ever make sense. I'm not even sure about having them where people park but if we are doing to do wireless EV charging that's where you do it. Putting it in the roadway is insane.

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