back to article Windows 10's latest update issue isn't a bug but a feature – to test your patience

Microsoft has offered a resolution for widespread reports of issues from Windows 10 users attempting to install the latest cumulative update. Users took to online discussion boards to vent their frustrations over the KB5031356 update failing to install. Many said they were presented with the 8007000D (ERROR_INVALID_DATA) error …

  1. spireite Silver badge

    Again?

    You have to laugh at the fact the updates are referred to as Quality Updates, yet the seem to lack that attribute.

    That said, my machines didn't have a problem with it.

    1. Geoff May (no relation)

      Re: Again?

      Mine did :-(

      Taskbar did not load and didn't show any running tasks. Still, a very quick search found a working fix.

      1. drankinatty

        Re: Again?

        Updated 6 - Win10 22H2 boxes Wednesday. 4 out of 6 suffered hangs at 40 and 76%. 1 suffered a reboot loop that required "DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth" to fix. All HDD boxes suffered hangs, 2 of 4 SSD boxes suffered hangs. Restarting to install the "pending installation" updates and resetting the current stuck update using the "Restart Now" button (when displayed) also worked around a hang on one box.

        Update install time ballooned to more than 2 hour with required troubleshooting on boxes with hangs. Boxes with no hangs installed all updates/patches in less than 30 minutes and completed updated windows defender and re-indexing scans. No slowdowns noted on any of the 6 boxes after updates installed, but boxes are a mix of business use desktops and laptops, though the laptops do use the proprietary Nvidia driver - no non-gaming slowdowns noted. They may do just fine gaming as well - but no games are installed to test.

        This issue didn't just start with October patch Tuesday, but similar partial updates were also observed during the September patch Tuesday updates as well. Seems all users receiving updates from MS are now members of the "windows insider's program" who get to do beta-testing of updates each patch Tuesday...

        1. navarac Bronze badge

          Re: Again?

          Once I fixed it and got the update, the FIRST thing I did was get rid of that gross search "pill" on the taskbar. More UI bloat. FFS

          1. Grogan Silver badge

            Re: Again?

            So that's how that poxy thing got there. My parents were upset about something that showed up on their computer (Windows 10), but couldn't tell me what it was. When I got to see it, it was firstly that the Windows Search widget/whatever was on the taskbar again (they don't use stuff like that ever, if they search, it's in their browser and they don't lose their files etc.), and it had brightly coloured icons, a book and a wheel chair or lounge chair or some stupid shit.

            That was "Search Gestures" (huh, aren't gestures some movement thing with your pointing device?) setting in the right click menu. So then I think, maybe I should reduce it to an icon instead of hiding/disabling it. So I click this icon, and what pops up with it? Side panes with spammy tiles like the ones that used to be on the start menu (that I cleared lol). Back to hidden again.

            By the way, Windows 10 and its disruptive (and at the time, very wrongheaded driver updates replacing vendors') and time consuming, forced updates made my self employment gig of on-site service impractical. I'd get there, start assessing things, and the next reboot could have been 2 hours of gyrations, the outcome of which I'm now stuck holding the bag for. So when COVID started, it was a great excuse to just stop doing that and not get back to it. So I don't see Windows very often anymore, only when I have to see family members' computers.

      2. Ilgaz

        Rolling release Linux

        On openSUSE Tumbleweed (or similar) you get like 2000-3000 updates a WEEK sometimes and such catastrophic or system downing reports are rare. Even if they happen, they offer "fraction of a second" rollback mechanisms such as "snapper".

        I remotely connected to 2 critical machines running Windows in panic after reading this story, they seem to be updated fine but this is absurd. These are also critical security updates and in that specific location they _have to_ be updated since they are exposed to Internet and local network.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Again?

      To be fair, if it finally convinces some people to switch to a non-Redmond option, they will indeed experience a Quality Update.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Again?

      Which attribute were you thinking of, Quality or Updates?

      Seems to me it could be both.

    4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Again?

      I must report that my work laptop breezed through this update as well.

      No issues here - this time (crossing my fingers for the next time).

  2. Tron Silver badge

    Windows is the best advert for Linux.

    This must have cost a lot of people a lot of downtime and cash. Why is Microsoft not forced to pay compensation for each and every case? Maybe the clowns running our declining nations can pass a law enforcing that.

    After the first few billion, they may start to be a bit more careful with their crapware.

    Instead of targeting social media companies for things that their users are responsible for, target Microsoft for things Microsoft is responsible for.

    1. Mike007

      Re: Windows is the best advert for Linux.

      Have you never read a software license agreement? No warranty that it will work, no liability if it kills your cat etc... In this industry when we break things we generally bill the customer for undoing it!

      1. 42656e4d203239 Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Windows is the best advert for Linux.

        >>no liability if it kills your cat etc.

        Surely "has sex with your cat"? Microsoft are, after all, an embryonic Sirrius Cybernetics Corporation. Share and Enjoy!

        1. Chloe Cresswell Silver badge

          Re: Windows is the best advert for Linux.

          Go stick your head in a pig?

      2. Nonymous Crowd Nerd

        Re: Windows is the best advert for Linux.

        That's why the comment suggested passing a law.

        There used to be a some sort of UK legislation which outlawed unfair terms in a consumer agreement. You'd have to suspect that it has been removed as a result of industry lobbying?

    2. cookieMonster Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Windows is the best advert for Linux.

      One pint for the idea, and i'll offer a few more

  3. jake Silver badge

    One wonders ...

    ... how many billions of dollars, world-wide, this is going to cost the Corporate world in lost productivity alone.

    Again.

    1. fajensen
      Pint

      Re: One wonders ...

      Money is really not that important to the people with money. They like to pretend it that it is, but, that is just their way of moving the discussion to a prepared battlefield where they have the upper hand.

      IOW, this means nothing, they will continue to license Windows because Bill has such a nice barbeque for top-tier clients - or whatever it is they actually value.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: One wonders ...

        "Bill has such a nice barbeque for top-tier clients"

        WHich Bill are you thinking of? It can't be Bill Gates because he left the building long ago.

  4. Roopee Bronze badge
    FAIL

    Twas ever thus...

    I supported Windows as part of my job from Windows 98 through to the early days of Windows 10. From XP onwards, updates that hung were a (very annoying) fact of life. Apparently they still are...

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: Twas ever thus...

      I wrote a script for the issue when "200+" updates were to be installed, which usually failed to ever finish.

      It installs one update after the other until one requests a reboot, which it then does instead of installing more. Together with a scheduled task for automation and over 50 reboots even problematic boxes manage to install everything.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Twas ever thus...

        Not a thing anymore though. Instead of releasing individual updates for each issue, they are all munged together into a single monthly Frankenupdate.

        If you don't want to update because of one issue, you have to put up with being vulnerable to everything else until the fixed update comes out.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Therein lies the rub

          That Frankenupdate is a real threat all by itself. Microsoft pushed the monolithic patches to reduce the load on it's own operations, not for our benefit, and it shows in the months where there are truly critical updates paired with low threat garbage and feature enhancements.

          While it is unlikely for M$ to go back to individual patches, maybe they need to be forced to split out critical security and stability updates into their own bundles, so that the scope of a bad patch for a less critical patch or a feature update doesn't block us from fixing a "brown pants" class fix separately. That is still a manageable test matrix, and the OS can chain the updates.

          We have had to put up with the near constant SSU updates as a separate install and often reboot, so the idea of splitting up the monthly bundle into critical stability, critical security, and the rest of the kitchen sink shouldn't be unreasonable.

          1. David 132 Silver badge
            Flame

            Re: Therein lies the rub

            "Feature Enhancements" seems to be, these days, Microsoft code for "We found another place to cram in adverts for Edge and ways to steer you towards a Microsoft account".

            I'm still bitter about the %&@$!-annoying "Microsoft Points / Microsoft Account / Reset your browser to Edge" crap-banner that infests Windows 10's Settings app.

            There used to be a way to remove it with Vivetool, but of course Microsoft closed that loophole ASAP. Far more important than fixing security issues, yes?

            OK, rant over. Thank you for listening.

      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: Twas ever thus...

        So you had to write a script because the manufacturer is too incompetent to do it right in the first place, and somehow this makes you feel good about software written and released by incompetents?

        Life's too short, man.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Twas ever thus...

          That's the Stockholm Syndrome working at top efficiency.

    2. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      Re: Twas ever thus...

      I once had a Win7 install that was effectively destroyed by a failed update. It permanently broke the Windows Update system.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Twas ever thus...

        "It permanently broke the Windows Update system."

        That's unusual. Normally it's already broken straight out of the box.

        1. Icepop33

          Re: Twas ever thus...

          Indeed. It wasn't finally fixed until Windows6.1-KB3138612_Mar 2016 Windows Update Client fix iirc. Remember the obtuse strategy of installing an update and then having to install the servicing stack update last to be ready for the next set of monthly windows updates? By the time they came around, parameters would have changed. It was a broken system for so long. It tended to hang indefinitely or refuse to install certain updats. Never could figure out why they did that instead of installing SSU first and then the updates that could have been paired with it.

  5. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

    So I got lucky!

    Mine needed only a half hour, including a second reboot after reaching 100% + a "cleanup running". Usual time is well below 5 minutes.

    1. Peter in Seattle

      Re: So I got lucky!

      Ditto, I suppose, although I think my update took a bit longer and was a little nerve-wracking:

      My initial post-download, pre-restart install hung at 9% for *at least* 20 minutes (probably closer to 30); followed by a computer reboot rather than a windows restart — which I know because the Windows boot menu I'd enabled appeared — followed by *something* getting installed from 1% to 100%, with a non-standard progress display at the bottom of the screen; followed by another computer reboot; followed by a standard Windows update progress display going from 1% to 100%; followed by *another* computer reboot; followed by *another* standard Windows update progress display going from 1% to 100%; followed by a normal Windows restart (sans boot menu); followed by the Welcome screen. After logging in, I ran Windows update again, and a type of update for Windows Defender I don't recall seeing before got installed without requiring a restart. I then manually restarted Windows for good measure (as I usually do); Belarc Advisor gave me a clean bill of health; and I disabled updates using Sordum's Windows Update Blocker (as I always do between Patch Tuesdays to prevent drive-by updates). ShutUp10 didn't flag any reactivated privacy vulnerabilities and, most importantly, my computer isn't behaving any worse than it was before — in contrast to a few/several months back, where the Patch Tuesday install *seemed* to go smoothly but a number of things in Windows got borked and I had to restore a pre-update Macrium Reflect drive image for the first time and wait for a "fixed" update to become available.

      VERY long story short, I guess I got lucky too. Still, though, it usually only takes me around five minutes to install Patch Tuesday updates, too. The LONG hang at 9% and the very unusual sequence of reboots had me on the verge of feeling anxious. If this story had popped up before Sunday, I probably would have held off, notwithstanding the three critical zero-day vulnerabilities that got patched. Speaking of which, back in the day when Windows Update was still serving up discrete updates for Windows, it was easy to vet Windows updates before installing them. If any of them were problematic, *someone* would post about it on the Net within thee days, tops. Nowadays, Windows-update bug reports seem to have all but disappeared from the Internet, or are showing up much later, like this one. Curious.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: So I got lucky!

      Bit of a Pyrrhic victory, no?

      1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

        Re: So I got lucky!

        According to Wikipedia no. It would have been if Windows Updates fried my PC, and I yell "Hey I've won! The CPU fan still works!".

        But here: Just a few minutes lost time, not a lost device. Maybe it was planned to give overworked people a bit room to breathe.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: So I got lucky!

          "Just a few minutes lost time, not a lost device."

          Devices are replaceable. Time is not.

          1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

            Re: So I got lucky!

            > "Just a few minutes lost time, not a lost device."

            > Devices are replaceable. Time is not.

            Devices are not instant replaceable as you suggest. Replacing my work machine costs a lot more time than just a half hour. And don't forget other peoples time in that process. Getting it back to workable state once it is in my hands is fast though, I do take care of my backups - even though not mandatory since the device is meant to be replaceable. But just restore, boot up and go on is still faster.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: So I got lucky!

              "Devices are not instant replaceable as you suggest."

              I did not suggest any such thing.

              "Replacing my work machine costs a lot more time than just a half hour."

              That's your Boss's problem. If you can't work, go home and mow the lawn or paint the kitchen or cook your .sig other supper.

              "And don't forget other peoples time in that process."

              I'm not. See elsewhere in this thread.

              "Getting it back to workable state once it is in my hands is fast though, I do take care of my backups"

              Good for you. But wouldn't it be better if a company the size of Microsoft made certain that it was unnecessary on your part BEFORE shipping the broken update?

              "even though not mandatory since the device is meant to be replaceable"

              Again, that's your Boss's problem.

              "But just restore, boot up and go on is still faster."

              It is nowhere near as fast as update and just get on with it, no reboot required.

              1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

                Re: So I got lucky!

                > That's your Boss's problem. If you can't work, go home

                Classical "I don't care about the company I work for" answer, quite often combined with "easy replaceable workforce". Nice!

                > It is nowhere near as fast as update and just get on with it

                So you suddenly agree with my initial point? Interesting contradiction with yourself!

                > no reboot required.

                You know the topic is Windows Updates, hm? Dream on. Even Linux updates often require a reboot, else the kernel stays old and may be vulnerable.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: So I got lucky!

                  The topic is indeed Windows Updates, which you then attempt to deflect by mentioning Linux. And that deflection is only partially correct since most enterprise Linux distributions allow live patching of the kernel without requiring a reboot.

          2. Grogan Silver badge

            Re: So I got lucky!

            Heheh... that's the thing about hard disk warranties for me. I don't care if it has a "5 year warranty", if I have to use that warranty I'm going to be bloody pissed off. Especially if it was one I ordered for a job. Absolutely unbillable, wasted time.

          3. Icepop33

            Re: So I got lucky!

            You have to spend time to make money to replace those things. They're interchangeable. You could always hope for some charity, but it takes time and effort to create goodwill as well ;)

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obviously a ploy to push people to Windows 11.

    1. spireite Silver badge

      Possibly cynical.

      I'd move to Linux if I wasn't forced to use Windows as part of my career.

      1. may_i

        Do what I do: The base installation on my laptop is Debian, Windows runs in virtual machines.

        This delivers several benefits: Windows is easy to back up and restore by simply copying the VM's virtual disk files. I can also have several installation of Windows - one for each system environment that I work with. Each Windows installation is much more stable because I'm not installing anything else than Visual Studio and any other tools that I need for the specific environment and there's no problem with conflicting updates or accumulating registry cruft due to multiple install/uninstalls. If a Windows update is taking ages (as they tend to), I can fire up another Windows VM and work on something else while the first one is grinding through its update.

        I've worked this way for over 15 years now and it has given me an incredibly stable and resilient working environment.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          VM snapshots allow for rollback to a last previous working state while MS tries to get its act together yet again. With GPU passthrough you can even play most Windows-only games that don't run in Wine/Proton.

  7. navarac Bronze badge

    Proof that...

    Windows 10 has been left in the hands of the B Team or Interns, while the supposed A Team works on 11/12. A bunch of morons.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Proof that...

      The A Team works on Windows 11?

      I guess that explains the UI. It was designed by Howling mad Murdock.

    2. 43300 Silver badge

      Re: Proof that...

      The A Team are the more "creative" ones - they come up with new "features" which either confuse or piss off the users (or both) on a much more frequent schedule.

  8. EricB123 Bronze badge

    Some attempted installations of KB5031356 were reportedly stuck on 30% after 24 hours

    Everybody is in such a hurry these days.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Some attempted installations of KB5031356 were reportedly stuck on 30% after 24 hours

      Point is that Microsoft has no inalienable right to waste the time of billions of people. And yet, here we are.

      Two billion people each losing "only" 15 minutes equals a half billion hours. That's a hair over 57,000 man-years. Wasted. Now extend this to the number of fucked up "updates" that Microsoft has foisted on the great unwashed over the last 20 years or so.

      It's not a matter of being in a hurry. It's a matter of wasted time.

  9. bregister

    TBH I download the updates manually and apply them manually. It works slightly more often than the "automated" version.

  10. Primus Secundus Tertius

    How old?

    "Not a bug, but a feature"

    I first met that nonsense with DEC software in the 1970s, but I wonder if it is even older than that.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: How old?

      "I first met that nonsense with DEC software in the 1970s, but I wonder if it is even older than that."

      I first heard it at SAIL in the late 1960s. Later, I heard it originated in the TMRC at MIT in the 1950s ... but as I was setting up my Uncle's first computer in 1987ish, I used the phrase regarding Procomm. He told me it was fairly common when he was serving in the Pacific in WWII, so perhaps it's US military slang?

      I'm willing to bet the concept goes back millennia ... for example, the inventor explaining mankind's first recurve bow.

      It's not nonsense, it's just how things work.

  11. Balcom

    Initial 30% lasted 4- 5 minutes. Then the re-start failed. Turned off manually. On reboot, it started the installation from where it left off and concluded successfully.

  12. mihalo1

    Just the most recent addition to the list of reasons to hate microsoft

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