back to article Nvidia boss tells Israeli staff Mellanox founder's daughter was killed in festival massacre

Mellanox founder Eyal Waldman's daughter Danielle and her boyfriend Noam Shai were among those killed by Hamas militants while attending the Supernova music festival on the Israel-Gaza border Saturday, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang said in a letter to staff. Huang also revealed in the memo to his Israeli employees that Avinatan Or, …

  1. John Doe 12

    I feel sad for all innocent victims on both sides of this conflict who are drawn into a situation they didn't have any control over.

    1. Ideasource Bronze badge

      I hope you feel better soon.

      Feeling sad doesn't help them.

      But it does hurt you to perseverate on that which you do not have direct control of in an emotionally disturbing manner.

      Although it may be socially popular to obsess and damage oneself to show support. it's not healthy. And it's not fair to treat yourself with such negative experience as you're not the perpetrator this unfortunate situation.

      The concept of intrinsic value of human life demands that your health and experience(life) is as important as theirs no more no less.

      1. John Doe 12

        Are you on drugs? You probably need to look up "empathy" in the dictionary but really I have no interest in your weird ramblings...

        1. Ideasource Bronze badge

          And perhaps you need to better study functions of empathy as well as dysfunctions of empathy when the feeling is not simply acknowledged and moved on from.

          Empathy is both the key to peace as well as the key to effective warfare.

          It is neither good nor bad on its own.

          It has potential in either direction.

          Perhaps you've never seen anybody grow depressed and completely lose themselves to unchecked empathy for situations of others they have heard about from afar.

          But I've seen it with my own eyes.

          The healthy thing to do with unpleasant feelings is to process them and move on from them.

          1. desht

            > The healthy thing to do with unpleasant feelings is to process them and move on from them.

            And perhaps that's what John Doe 12 was doing, processing his unpleasant feelings by expressing his sadness here. So he doesn't really need some supercilious callous comments like yours.

            1. Ideasource Bronze badge

              You find concern for the well being of another, motivating a friendly warning the someone walking a psychological precipice that has real potential to become chronic dysfunction as

              callus?

              Every human is susceptible to that mechanism and so never was anything personal.

              The reminder that a person has a choice and a highlight of the dangers involved with a current course of of thought are often enough to avoid those dangers.

              I'd hate to be in your family.

              What do you all just double down on misery until someone kills themselves?

              You have a lot to learn about compassion vs virtue signaled despair.

              More human suffering does not cancel out suffering. it's just more suffering.

              And yes sadness does overwhelmingly qualify as a form of suffering.

              Unmitigated becomes mental illness.

              And it all starts with sadness that was not moved on from.

              1. desht

                > I'd hate to be in your family

                Please believe me when I say the feeling is very much mutual.

              2. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                You come across like a supercilious adolescent trying to rationalise and reframe your lack of empathy from a personal failing into being a sign of how smugly rational and detached you are by wrapping it up in mock-intellectual, pseudo-philosphical shite like this.

                You're fooling no-one but yourself with your tedious, pretentious drivel.

          2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

            "Perseverate" .. "process" ... and we need is "trauma" to complete the psychobabble trifecta.

            1. Ideasource Bronze badge

              Oh please those are perfectly common words before psyche industry noticed them.

              What is this Idiocracy the home game, where we act like it's bad that people use good words that actually mean something specific?

              1. Roj Blake Silver badge

                Perseverate is a perfectly cromulent word.

      2. localzuk Silver badge

        Your lack of understanding that posting something like the OP said is part of the process of dealing with those emotions. Public outpourings of support are a critical part of dealing with these issues, both from an emotional and from a political point of view.

        The idea that people should, from what you're saying, basically ignore it because they can't directly affect the outcome is just evidence that you are emotionally stunted.

      3. garwhale Bronze badge

        I am not sure how you picked up "obsess and damage oneself", or "emotionally disturbing manner". Expressing emotion can be helpful in a situation where you have little control. Donating to charities can also help you fell better, and may even help the victims.

    2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      But they do hve control. Gaza has the highest baby to woman ratio is the world. By having so many babies they are creating a hell hole that is Gaza. Its utter madness to have 8+ kids when theres no future in the shithole tht is Gaza.

      1. Claverhouse Silver badge

        I'm pretty sure it is already a hell hole, and has been for many decades.

        .

        And would you advise that Palestinians instead voluntarily choose not to have babies, effectually removing their nation from the planet ?

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Can you count ?

          Theres a big difference. between having 8 kids and 1 or 2.

          I suppose with your thinking its smarter for them to have double the current number and have 16 kids.

      2. Ideasource Bronze badge

        Harder the environmental factors the more babies are needed to ensure survivability of the tribe.

        When living conditions are f***** the only thing left to live for as longevity of tribe and culture.

      3. SundogUK Silver badge

        It's not the number of babies that is the problem. It's what they teach them.

      4. localzuk Silver badge

        It is normal to have such large numbers of children when life expectancy is low. You have lots of children so at least some survive.

        If Gaza wasn't such a hell hole, people would have fewer children.

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Wheres your proof life expency is low...

      5. graeme leggett Silver badge

        The reasons are complex but 8 was a peak, it has fallen to 4 since then.

      6. jmch Silver badge

        "Gaza has the highest baby to woman ratio is the world"

        It is well known that number of offspring (and also infant mortality) inversely correlate with development and wealth.

        "By having so many babies they are creating a hell hole that is Gaza"

        You've got it the wrong way round. They have lots of babies *because* it is a hellhole. Because when it's highly likely that a large proportion of children will die, humans have more children (an instinct as old as, and as widespread as, life itself). And because when there are extremely limited prospects of education and technology, 'number of family members' is the only thing of value available.

      7. Schultz
        WTF?

        Xenophobia is running strong in this one ...

        CowHorseFrog: "By having so many babies they are creating a hell hole that is Gaza. Its utter madness to have 8+ kids when theres no future in the shithole tht is Gaza."

        Here are the actual numbers from Wikipedia (go to the Wiki page for reputable references):

        "Out of 224 listed countries and territories, the West Bank ranked 48th with a total fertility rate (TFR) of 3.2, and the Gaza Strip ranked 31st with a TFR of 3.97 according to The World Factbook in 2018.[13] In 2018, the West Bank had an estimated population growth rate of 1.81% (country comparison to the world: 56th) and the Gaza Strip had a population growth rate of 2.25% (35th)."

        So we have a nice example of xenophobia coupled with an inability to look up the numbers. Full points.

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: Xenophobia is running strong in this one ...

          I never mentioned race, i was referring to locations... you sir are the racist.

  2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

    CEO and founder, i guess mentioning victims whose parents didnt have that title are not worthy.

  3. alain williams Silver badge

    I fear that by the time that this ends ...

    many more Palestinians will have been killed than Israelis.

    The vast majority of those killed will be innocent bystanders/civilians.

    1. Mooseman Silver badge

      Re: I fear that by the time that this ends ...

      "many more Palestinians will have been killed than Israelis.

      The vast majority of those killed will be innocent bystanders/civilians."

      Which is precisely the thinking (and I use that word loosely) behind this whole business. Nobody in their right mind thinks that mass murder on the scale we saw last week was a involuntary and understandable response to Israeli actions in Gaza - it's quite clearly designed to generate outrage and fury in Israel and thus the predictable military response, and thus provide an excuse for the hardline states around them to respond in turn.

      1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

        Re: I fear that by the time that this ends ...

        Yes. This is the only strategy that makes any sense for Hamas to pursue. Commit an atrocity to goad Israel into a disproportionate response, then publicise that atrocity to ensure neighbouring Arab states are dissuaded from normalising their relations with Israel. Before this, relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia were slowly, steadily becoming closer.

        1. Manolo
          Black Helicopters

          Re: I fear that by the time that this ends ...

          There are analysts who suspect Iran has been pushing Hamas to this offensive, to sabotage the Saudi - Israeli relations.

          The may just be tools.

          1. Ace2 Silver badge

            Re: I fear that by the time that this ends ...

            Last update I saw was that the Hamas operation had to have been in active planning for much longer that the Saudi talks have been going on.

          2. veti Silver badge

            Re: I fear that by the time that this ends ...

            Tools, yes. Hamas is chiefly funded by Iran, plus some of the Gulf states, none of whom give a shit how many Palestinians die.

            I'm sure they do want to provoke an equally brutal response from Israel, and I'm reasonably sure they'll get it. Bibi's government is childishly easy to manipulate that way. But what goals they have in mind, is a bit more speculative.

            They're diverting some attention (and aid) from Ukraine, to Mr Putin's glee. They're creating division in the west. They're bolstering Mr Trump's chances of winning another term, with everything that would imply. Perhaps most important for their long term strategy, they are politicising support for Palestine in a way it hasn't been for a generation now. If they can make the Palestinian cause sufficiently toxic in the west, they will bolster their own position and claim to be the only real representatives of that cause. Then, PLO RIP.

  4. F. Frederick Skitty Silver badge

    And the cycle continues. Netanyahu's government have been supporting settlers in the West Bank that kill Palestinians with impunity. This, and other blatant provocations, produced a reaction from Hamas that shows violence only breeds further violence. It also makes a mockery of Netanyahu's claim to be the only one who can protect Israelis, although I'm sure he'll scapegoat someone else.

    It's long been a goal of Israeli right wingers to eject the population of Gaza into the Sinai, over the border with Egypt. It looks like the Gazans, most descended from those expelled from the surrounding area in 1948, will be refugees all over again. So it's ultimately a win-win for the far right politicians in Israel, who can use one atrocity to justify their own.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      One of the more recently times terrorists attacked innocent civilians one of our last remaining politicians at the time with some actual gravitas and insight made a speech about it.

      https://x.com/TweetForTheMany/status/1712969301253062773?s=20

      If you're interested in the maths

      https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

      For those hand wringing about how terrible it is and that nothing can be done, do what you can and stop voting for people who prop up invading regimes.

      More history just for fun

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)

      Cause

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_raid

      Effect

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Enemy_Territory_Administration

      The ultimate fallout is your average Joe gets killed, maimed or displaced. These wars and the divvying up of spoils is just rich people throwing poor peoples flesh at one another. Eat the rich.

      1. Dagg Silver badge

        Interesting links.

        Those who have forgotten the past are doomed to repeat it. A terrorist is a terrorist regardless of the religion or race.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The thing people forget is...

    ...the reason this mess happened is that Palestine, Lebanon, Iran and other countries in that area started a war explicitly aimed to wipe Israel off the map. The plan went very wrong, because Israel fought back, which is why the borders are now so "weird".

    Nothing has changed, they still want to wipe Israel off the map, but they can't. Also, the same people (all of whom live in luxury in places like Qatar, along with the Taliban when they were briefly on holiday from running Afghanistan) planned all of this "on behalf of" people who actually live in Gaza. Note Gaza, because the West Bank Palestinians (PLO) had started to work things out with Israel, to you-know have a decent life and maybe start to fix things.

    Basically, there are some really bad people, and they aren't every going to get caught. They are quite willing to slaughter both Israelis and people in Gaza...

    1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
      IT Angle

      Re: The thing people forget is...

      Quote

      "Basically, there are some really bad people, and they aren't every going to get caught. They are quite willing to slaughter both Israelis and people in Gaza..."

      indeed, thats what prevents a peace deal ever being achieved. because the really bad people on both sides are only too happy to kill their fellows who sign peace treaties.

      1. Shuki26

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        What prevents a peace deal is that the Palestinians don't want peace. Their explicit goal is to rid Israel of Jews. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, the PLO and more only want to get rid of Jews.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          HAMAS doesn't just want to get rid of Israel, or the Jews of Israel. HAMAS wants to kill every Jew in the world.

        2. jmch Silver badge

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          " the Palestinians don't want peace"

          Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, don't want peace, and want to destroy Israel. For most Palestinians though, that is (a) a position brainwashed into them since birth and (b) more of a theoretical aspiration that only moves into the practical realm because of desperation and idleness. Opinion polls in both Gaza strip and the West Bank show that what most Palestinians really want is an independent state , and while they might theoretically aspire to a 'greater Palestine' occupying all the current Palestinian + Israeli territory, they would certainly settle for an internationally recognised state within current territory that's not being blockaded by Israel and that can freely trade with it's Arab neighbours.

          (Of course doing that in the Gaza strip would be relatively easy compared to the West Bank which has become a patchwork of ever-growing Israeli settlements as the Palestinian parts keep getting squeezed out.)

          1. Casca Silver badge

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            You have missed that the Gaza strip has a border with Egypt?

            1. jmch Silver badge

              Re: The thing people forget is...

              "You have missed that the Gaza strip has a border with Egypt?"

              No, haven't missed that, but Gaza is still effectively blockaded since Egypt also keeps a closed border with Gaza. And yes, that is part of the cynical pan-Arab-World policy that prefers to have Palestinians living in misery in Gaza to use both as a proxy to attack Israel with physically as well as a victim they can point at to attack Israel morally. Ditto with Jordan and the West Bank, and ditto with the Gulf states and Iran who prefer to send money for arms instead of finding ways to build up diplomacy, security guarantees, infrastructure and humanitarian aid.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The thing people forget is...

      So much misinformation in your post. Firstly, it ignores the way Israel came into existence. It was through the ethnic cleansing, often accompanied by massacres, of the Palestinian population in 1948. This was carried out mostly by recently arrived Jewish immigrants who had arrived during European colonial control of Palestine with a later influx of survivors from the Holocaust.

      Then there's the lie in your post. The West Bank Palestinians are not living in anything like harmony with Israel. Their land is constantly being appropriated by heavily armed Jewish settlers, backed up by raids into Palestinian villages and towns by the Israeli armed forces.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        ^ This.

        One thing is abundantly clear, the young men and boys of those innocent Palestinian families who are getting bombed into oblivion will (if they survive) grow up to hate Israel and Jews and become the next generation of extremist terrorists who want to harm Israel. They will be fertile grounds for Hamas or similar to recruit from. This war won't end well for anyone on either side and the innocent on all sides will be the ones that will continue to suffer and pay the price most. I just hope the whole region (and beyond) doesn't go up in flames too or that someone starts pushing nuke buttons.

        1. Ace2 Silver badge

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          This this.

          We’ve all encountered this in video games - the bad guys that split in two when you hit them. That’s what shooting terrorists does. Great, you killed one. But you made a lifelong blood enemy of eight of his cousins.

          The “War on Terror” (fuck you, Dubya!) was an abject failure. If only people would learn.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            The aim of the "war on terror" was always to increase the number of terrorists to enable the US to spend countless trillions continuing to fight endless wars (instead of using that money to address root causes).

            It has been a resounding success.

            And there's more than a smidgen of truth in a recent piece on Netanyahu in the Onion.

            1. Ideasource Bronze badge

              Re: The thing people forget is...

              There is only one way to defeat terrorism.

              Despite physical circumstance refuse the invitation to react.

              Terrorism is a particularly vicious form of attention whoring.

              It can only succeed through attention and through that attention perceptions of terror.

              the more reaction of any type to an act of terrorism the greater the victory for terrorism.

              The physicality are merely tokens in play for a psychological victory.

              Even if they achieve their physical ends if no one is terrified then terrorism fails to manifest.

              1. Schultz
                Go

                The way to defeat terrorism

                All we have to do is look at Ireland / Northern Ireland or Austria / Northern Italy (South Tyrolia). The way to defuse terrorism is by granting meaningful autonomy. One side's terrorists are the other side's freedom fighters and once a reasonable degree of freedom is achieved, the terrorists melt away.

                1. Mooseman Silver badge

                  Re: The way to defeat terrorism

                  "once a reasonable degree of freedom is achieved, the terrorists melt away"

                  Except in the case of the IRA, of course, who now deny anything they do, blaming extreme "fringe" organisations. Oh, and running protection rackets and generally acting like crime lords.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          re: "someone starts pushing nuke buttons"

          You do realise they see Samson as a hero?

        3. Shuki26

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          They already hate Jews. Not all the militants who crossed the border into Israel and carried out atrocities were actually terrorists. The clips show many who were just 'regular Joes' who went to get some Jewish blood, rape Jewish women, decapitate Jewish babies, and then bring back hostages and bodies for ransom.

      2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        The Palestinians are their own worst enemies.

        Gaza is suffering from overpopulation, the Gaza woman has the highest number of kids on the planet at over 8.

        Its basically a terrible parent that brings that many kids into a land with no future....its just cruel to do so. This overpopulation is what rules Hamas. They are creating. distopian shithole because of too many people.

        1. Ace2 Silver badge

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          Someone like you should come in with guns and surgical equipment and sterilize the unwashed masses. That’ll work great!

          1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            Never said that, its been a Palestinian policy for their women to have as many kids as possible and been this has been stated by their leaders multiple times.

            It is possible to cross your legs...again its cruel to bring in 8+ kids into the shithole that is Gaza, especially when you see its already got too many people.

            1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

              Re: The thing people forget is...

              Good man for swallowing half a statistic without questioning it, and bonus points for using it to arrive at an idiotic conclusion.

              Lets look at some real numbers:

              Births per woman,2021: (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?name_desc=false)

              United Kingdom.... 1.6

              Israel.... 3.0

              Palestinian territories... 3.5

              Well, it looks like the Palestinian women are having 16% more children than Israelis. Your western mindset assumes they all grow up to be adults... nope. For a fuller picture, you need to see what happens after:

              Infant mortality rate, per 1000 live births, 2021: (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.DYN.MORT)

              Israel.... 3

              United Kingdom.... 4

              Palestinian territories... 15

              Hmm... I think I can see one reason why there might be a higher birth-rate. Can you?

              Crude birth rate, per 1000 people (either sex, any age) is 28 in Palestinian lands : 20 in Israel. That's a greater disparity (+40%) than the births per woman figures. That indicates there are more women than men, but also that there’s some factor that has removed males from the population at an age after they had children... whatever could that be? There are two normal explanations for this in poor countries: emigration (the man moves abroad to earn money to support his family, who remain at home) and war. You can decide which is the greater influence.

              1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                Re: The thing people forget is...

                > Hmm... I think I can see one reason why there might be a higher birth-rate. Can you?

                Theres only problem. In a land with no food, no water, its stupid to have so many kids when resources are limited...

                > Well, it looks like the Palestinian women are having 16% more children than Israelis. Your western mindset assumes they all grow up to be adults... nope. For a fuller picture, you need to see what happens after:

                I never said Israelis didnt have a lot of kids, because they do and thats part of the problem. Everyone is having too many kids in a small state that is a desert

              2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                Re: The thing people forget is...

                You better goto Washington and tell them their average age numbers are all wrong...

                https://www.prb.org/resources/the-west-bank-and-gaza-a-population-profile/

                West Bank Gaza

                Population (2000 estimates) 2.0 million 1.1 million

                Births per 1,000 population* 37 43

                Deaths per 1,000 population* 4 4

                Infant deaths per 1,000 live births* 22 26

                Rate of natural increase* 3.2% 3.9%

                Total fertility rate* 5.0 6.6

                Life expectancy at birth* 72 years 71 years

                1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

                  Re: The thing people forget is...

                  "April 2002". Do better.

                  1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                    Re: The thing people forget is...

                    Kristian: Any chance you can write a complete sentence ?

                  2. Mooseman Silver badge

                    Re: The thing people forget is...

                    Population

                    3,000,021 (West Bank – 2022 est.)

                    1,997,328 (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)

                    Growth rate

                    1.69% (West Bank – 2022 est.)

                    2.02% (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)

                    Birth rate

                    24.42 births/1,000 population (West Bank – 2022 est.)

                    27.67 births/1,000 population (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)

                    Death rate

                    3.4 deaths/1,000 population (West Bank – 2022 est.)

                    2.91 deaths/1,000 population (Gaza Strip – 2022 est.)

                    Life expectancy at birth

                    total population: 75.4 years

                    male: 73.4 years

                    female: 77.6 years (2018 est.)

                    And for those throwing around words like "genocide" the population of palestinians in 1950 was around 945000. It's now 5133000.....

        2. Shuki26

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          Palestinian leader of the last generation Hana Ashwari: The Palestinians never miss the opportunity to miss an opportunity. This attack sets back any real desire for a real country for many many years.

      3. 9Rune5

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        ...And the palestines of whom you speak, are they the descendants of the philistines that lived there originally? Or the assyrians perhaps? Or the judean people?

        As I recall, when the jews returned in 1948 to what was a very sparsely populated piece of land, it was mostly the arab neighbors that reacted poorly.

        For me, at the end of the day, I can't help but notice which fraction shows the best approach at government. Hamas even treat their own poorly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism_in_the_Gaza_Strip) and it is a very bad idea to offer them any support.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          very sparsely populated piece of land

          Wrong, you are like the Australian government with the concept of Terra Nullius. If Palestine was empty then why did the jews needs to ethnically cleanse it and force all the refuges into the Gaza Strip and the West bank? If the land was sparsely populated there would not have been any refuges.

          1. DJO Silver badge

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            Of the territory that was once "Palestine" only a small proportion is now under Israeli control, the majority of those lands became Jordan or got tacked onto Egypt.

            I see nothing from anyone to reclaim those lands for Palestinians, it's just the part which is now Israel they want back - I wonder why?

            1. blackcat Silver badge

              Re: The thing people forget is...

              I believe some of the issues are related to Jerusalem as this is an important place to both. Coupled with some 'we were here first'.

              1. DJO Silver badge

                Re: The thing people forget is...

                Never try the "we were here first" argument in the middle east. Muhammad was born around 570AD and he didn't started building up Islam until around 600AD.

                Judaism dates back for around 3,500 years of occupation of almost everywhere at one time or another in the middle east.

                Lots of places are important to multiple groups - Find a way to share or fuck off to somewhere else. - No single group has the right to claim exclusive access.

                1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                  Re: The thing people forget is...

                  Who said Judaism dates back 3500 ?

                  If you read the bible the jewish people spend more time worshipping pagan gods and that why god takes away his protection and they get smashed and conquered.

                  You should check WHO wrote the bible instead of actually believing the stories...

                  1. DJO Silver badge

                    Re: The thing people forget is...

                    So what?

                    There's continuity even if there were schisms that changed the nature of the religion.

                    For example: Christianity as it is today bears zero resemblance to Christianity before Constantine - It is said Constantine converted the Roman empire to Christianity, nothing could be further from the truth - he converted Christianity to Romanism - the roles of all the minor gods were shifted to patron saints, the modest, caring and sharing stuff Jesus said was quietly ignored - Sermon on the Mount? - Woke rubbish, ignore it. and so on. Everything that Jesus (if he existed) would have considered important has been thrown away by the vast majority of "Christians".

                    Islam used to be the most tolerant of religions encouraging scholars from everywhere in the known world to work in their cities but they schismed and look what we have now. (Actually that worked out quite well for everybody else, after the Islamic schism loads of scholars ran away, many to Europe where they triggered the Renaissance.)

                    And so on for every single religion existing or extinct.

                    Myself - born again atheist - All hail the random perturbations in the quantum flux. I couldn't care less what other people want to believe (or not believe) as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to force it on other people - That is crossing a Rubicon that should never be crossed.

                    1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                      Re: The thing people forget is...

                      My point is the bible makes many claims that the jewish people followed Judaism, but the truth is the bible says the opposite.

                      1. DJO Silver badge

                        Re: The thing people forget is...

                        No, they did "follow" Judaism it's just that Judaism then is not the same as Judaism now. Like everything else, religions change as they age.

          2. Manolo

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            "force all the refuges into the Gaza Strip and the West bank"

            All the refugees?

            About 1,3 million Palestinians live inside Israel.

            So tell me, why can they live in Israel, but not a single Jew can live safely in Gaza or the West Bank?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The thing people forget is...

              The jews do live in the west bank. They do is steal Palestinian land for illegal settlements.

              1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                Re: The thing people forget is...

                Do you know what llegal means ?

                If people do actions that are allowed in that land its legal. The settlements you mentioned are legal under Israeli law...

                What your claiming is its illegal for women to drive in France because of laws in Saudi Arabia.

          3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            Palestinians have killed more Palestinians since the foundation of the jewish state.

            Just like muslims have killed more muslims than anybody else, jut ask uncle Saddam etc.

        2. imanidiot Silver badge

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          The jewish and arab/muslim population in the area where already at each others (and the British for that matter) throats long before 1948. For the most part it was Arabs killing and subjugating Jews, the Jewish on their part committed some rather gruesome unpleasantness of their own.But in the end, yes, pretty much when the Jews decided they'd have an Isreali nation in that area the surrounding countries and the Palestinians immediately, unequivocally and unquestioningly chose violence. And have basically never chosen to try anything other than violence. The Israelis on their part have pretty much given up on anything other than violence from their side too and have certainly not been civilized about the whole thing either.

      4. jmch Silver badge

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        As with every territory that has been highly contested and changed hands multiple times over the centuries, it becomes ever-more impossible to find a just resolution. At some point you got to stop with the historical view and realise that you can't just go back to the 1948 status quo ante as simply as doing a database restore. And giving all of Israeli territory back to Palestine, whatever the moral rights and wrongs of it might be, is to all effects and purposes impossible considering that Israel is a nuclear power that could be facing an existential threat.

        Similairly, while many in 'the West' think Israel should simply annex the West Bank and Gaza strip while giving Palestinians full citizenship are living a pipe dream. Neither side wants that and both sides hate each other, it could never work. And Israel can't take over the Gaza strip without ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians there (in fact Israel clearly doesn't want to be entangled in the Gaza strip at all, which is why 10-15 years ago it actually bulldozed it's own settlements there and completely retreated from the area). What they seem to be doing and what seems to be their aim is contaiing the Gaza strip by a semi-permanent blockade together with a nibble-by-nibble takeover of the West Bank (where they have, to the general indifference and even tacit support of much of 'the West', been actually ethnically cleansing Palestinians out of any territory that's even close to any of their ever-expanding settlements).

    3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: The thing people forget is...

      No

      The reason this happens is because the leaders of the countries you mention like to divert attention to Israel to give a channel for the countries they ruin w/ their corrupt pathetic rule.

      Notice these same countries did nothing when Uncle Saddam was killing Muslims by the millions, or when the Ayatollahs kill thousands more in Iran.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        "Notice these same countries did nothing when Uncle Saddam was killing Muslims by the millions, or when the Ayatollahs kill thousands more in Iran."

        You clearly have no understanding of either of those situations or the opposing/different factions in Islam and how some people/groups use that as both reasons and excuses for power grabs and/or consolidation.

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          > You clearly have no understanding of either of those situations or the opposing/different factions in Islam and how some people/groups use that as both reasons and excuses for power grabs and/or consolidation.

          So no actual reasoning in your reply just you shouting loud and saying im right your wrong.

          And you answer proves you have no understanding either because you fail to counter my statement in any form.

          Its amazing how blind you are too seeing the untruths of politicians words.

          Hitler did the same in the 30s, there was no Jewish problem, he did what leadership does, they speak lies to divert attention. Muslim leadership are always quite about other muslims killing muslims, the biggest kill of muslims for the past 100 years has been - surprise suprise MUSLIMS.

          Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, need more names ?

    4. Dacarlo

      Re: The thing people forget is...

      "...the reason this mess happened is that Palestine"

      You need to go back a lot further. Start with World War 1 and work you way forward from there.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        Better yet, start about 3.500 years ago and then work forward :-)

      2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        Yeh because the middle east has never been a place of war.

        Hey even the bible is full of wars on every other page...

    5. Blank Reg

      Re: The thing people forget is...

      I think the root cause goes back further to the end of Ww2 when the borders of the middle east countries were created without regard for who actually lived within those borders

      1. Manolo

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        I think you mean WW1. Look up Sykes-Picot Agreement.

        1. Blank Reg

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          Yes that is the one I was referring to, sorry.

        2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: The thing people forget is...

          You might want to read the history of Mohammad and his companions...

          Did you know that of the dozen of so close followers who became leaders of their early muslim community, that only one died of old age, and the rest were poisoned ?

          Heres another book its called the bible... go read how everybody there loves each other.

          Start with the story of Joseph and his wonderful coat, then go read about King David and what his kids did to each other... or maybe we can discuss Abraham who raped his wives maiden and then abandones her with his half son in the desert...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The thing people forget is...

            And when those role models that you believe in are guaranteed places in heaven, then morality essentially goes out the window.

            Leading to "justified" ethnic cleansing and war crimes, because "God is on your side".

            Nethanayu believes he is just another Israeli hero destined for paradise.

      2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: The thing people forget is...

        So its all about borders eh ?

        So if your local government includes a street in your neighbourhood in your postcode or zipcode and you dont like that, you have the right or duty to go and kill, maim or rape half the people in that street ?

        We all live in countries with invisible lines in the wrong place, and yet i dont see thousand sof killings and rapings and beheadings in Australia or Japan or France or...

        Maybe the problem is morons like yourself putting blame on others, rather than on the actual criminals who evil.

  6. Ideasource Bronze badge

    Ironic

    I find it darkly amusing and simultaneously Highly disturbing, that Israel is perpetrating a second Holocaust onto the native Palestinians.

    It's the classic vicious cycle of the abused becoming the abuser.

    1. John Doe 12

      Re: Ironic

      This is the truest thing I read anywhere today!!

    2. Shuki26

      Re: Ironic

      So you accuse Israel of kill 1300 of its own people?

    3. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      Re: Ironic

      There were 1.4m Palestinians in 1948 and there are about 5.2m in Palestine today. If Israel was really trying to operate a Holocaust (and I'll point out in passing that making the accusation forms part of the IHRA definition of antisemitism) they are remarkably inefficient at it.

      Meanwhile, the avowed aim of HAMAS is to destroy the State of Israel and kill every Jew in the world. There's your desire for a new Holocaust, right there.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ironic

      Dreadfully inefficient Holocaust if they’ve still got such a large population of Palestinian people.

      This is not excusing any barbarism on either side, but your hyperbole isn’t accurate

  7. Ace2 Silver badge

    It’s like when my children are hitting each other, and then want me to come and stop the other one. “But he’s hitting me!” “She’s hitting me! Make her stop!” No, you twits, YOU BOTH HAVE TO STOP.

    What Hamas did is horrible. What Likud and the execrable “settlers” are doing in response is also horrible.

    If I were in charge, Israel would never get another dime of aid from the US until they GTFO of all occupied territories.

    ETA: I think it’s disgusting that these rich, privileged Israelis were having a freaking music festival just over the border from where two million Palestinians are living in near-stone-age conditions in the world’s largest open-air prison camp.

    1. Justthefacts Silver badge

      Shame

      Hundreds of people going to a music festival were slaughtered purely for being the wrong ethnic group, and your response is “yes, it must be their own fault”. You wouldn’t say that if were any other ethnic group. So let’s call that out for what it is: anti-semitism. The people who were killed were not responsible for the actions of Likud.

      Or do you believe in collective punishment? That’s ironic, as Likud do, and it’s exactly the atrocity they are about to enact.

      1. Ace2 Silver badge

        Re: Shame

        I didn’t say it was their fault. It was horrible that they were killed. I said it was disgusting that there was a festival there, and that they were attending it. It’s like rich college kids holding an ecstasy rave in a homeless encampment.

        And fuck your “anti-semitic” donkey shit.

        1. Justthefacts Silver badge

          Re: Shame

          No, it wasn’t disgusting that they held a festival there. They were just dancing and listening to music, like people do. They weren’t “doing it in a homeless encampment”.

          Anti-semites routinely say things about Jews that they simply wouldn’t find acceptable towards other ethnic groups, and then claim (maybe even believe) they aren’t anti-Semitic. It’s *not considered a normal or acceptable response* to a massacre of civilians, to dance on their graves for the political actions of their governments. Did you say the same thing about the victims of the Bataclan shootings? Compared to the places in ISIL where the attackers originated, they were privileged too. The French government has continued for decades colonial military engagement in Chad, which is why Paris is targeted. The difference is that one set of people were Jewish, and the others not.

          You should read David Baddiel’s book “Jews Don’t Count”. Yes, what you said is anti-Semitic.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Shame

            "Anti-semites routinely say things about Jews that they simply wouldn’t find acceptable towards other ethnic groups, and then claim (maybe even believe) they aren’t anti-Semitic."

            There is an element of truth in that. On the other hand, almost any criticism of Israel, is almost always countered by "that's an anti-Semitic attack!!!!"

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Shame

              On the other hand, almost any criticism of Israel, is almost always countered by "that's an anti-Semitic attack!!!!"

              Like all other states, Israel is not above criticism and Netanyahu is a loathsome crook. Nevertheless, many people profess to hold Israel to much higher standards than its neighbours, and that's down to anti-Semitism.

              1. Ace2 Silver badge

                Re: Shame

                “Many people”

                Ok. Whatever works for you buddy.

              2. jmch Silver badge

                Re: Shame

                "many people profess to hold Israel to much higher standards than its neighbours, and that's down to anti-Semitism."

                No, it's Israel itself that professes to hold itself to higher standards than all it's Arab neighbours. Just pointing out the hypocrisy isn't anti-Semitism. Pointing out that the Israeli blocakade of the Gaza Strip makes it in effect a giant internment camp isn't anti-Semitism. And pointing at the actual ethnic cleansing of Palestinians that Israeli settlers are doing in the West Bank isn't anti-Semitism.

                Equally one can point to Hamas, and their actions and the actions of all their followers as totally repugnant; to be disgusted by the awful Muslim treatment of women and gay people, of all of the Arab world using the Palestinians as a living focus of anti-Israeli hate instead of actually helping them out.

                Any side that is killing innocent victims is in the wrong here, and one can condemn each side without (a) meaning that as support for the other side or (b) it being a general slur on all Israelis/Jews or Arabs/Muslims

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Shame

                  "Just pointing out the hypocrisy isn't anti-Semitism"

                  Depends who you ask.

                  Israel has for a very long time played the minority and victim card and various organisations, particularly in the USA, have continued this narrative. However we are talking about a nation that is funded massively by the US govt, has some of the best military technology outside of the US, have an intelligence network that spans the globe and, as the cherry on top, are a nuclear power.

            2. Justthefacts Silver badge

              Re: Shame

              When, as now seems likely, the Likud-led IDF commits genocide in Gaza, I shall call that too by its correct name.

          2. Ace2 Silver badge

            Re: Shame

            “You should read David Baddiel’s book “Jews Don’t Count”. Yes, what you said is anti-Semitic.”

            Because… why? Because you’ve constructed a delightful strawman and are now threatening to set it alight?

            Screw off, and come back when you can have a discussion without inventing the contents of posts so you can disagree with them.

            Or maybe you just have a headache. Maybe taken some ibuprofen and take a nap.

          3. Jedit Silver badge
            Thumb Down

            "You should read David Baddiel’s book “Jews Don’t Count”."

            Thanks, but when I want an explanation of what does and does not constitute prejudice, I'm not going to go to a man who found it acceptable to put on blackface and wear a fucking pineapple on his head.

            Relevant edit: that's not to say I agree with or condone the actions of Hamas. Provoked or not, desperate or not, what they're doing is absolutely wrong and it's going to end with a lot of Palestinians being hurt or killed. But I'm sure as hell not going to side with Netenyahu as he literally declares Krystallnacht 2: Gaza Boogaloo, and neither should anyone else.

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Shame

            You mean the David Baddiel who used to perform in blackface?

            That David Baddiel?

      2. Evil Scot

        Re: Shame

        A more apt comparison would be to would be a marching band with Orange sashes.

        There is knowledge that this behaviour is provocative.

      3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: Shame

        Well lots of people here are saying Hamas is justified because of imaginary border lines...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If I were in charge, Israel would never get another dime of aid from the US until they GTFO of all occupied territories.

      And if - when - the people in those newly de-occupied territories continue to fire rockets in an indiscriminate attempt to kill Jews, Israel should ... what? Just take it?

    3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      They are living in those conditions because they have too many kids.

      They were moved into a locked up in Gaza because the Jews realised that if they didnt do this they would be out voted by P in 20 years time.

      The P pushed the button to outvote the J by overpopulation and this is what happens - dangerous stupid cruel game.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Palestinians are living in near-stone-age conditions in the world’s largest open-air prison camp.

      Interesting fact... Why don't people learn from the past!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It is good to see the down votes, it means I hit the mark.

        If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it doesn't matter what name use use it is still a duck!

    5. Manolo

      "If I were in charge, Israel would never get another dime of aid from the US until they GTFO of all occupied territories."

      I quote Yuval Noah Harari here:

      "In the mid-2000s, Israel unilaterally retreated from the entire Gaza Strip, dismantled all settlements there and returned to the internationally recognised pre-1967 border.

      ......

      Instead, Hamas took over the Gaza Strip and turned it into a terrorist base from which repeated attacks were launched on Israeli civilians. "

      Read his essay here:

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/israelis-palestinians-greatest-danger-since-1948

      1. jmch Silver badge

        "In the mid-2000s, Israel unilaterally retreated from the entire Gaza Strip, dismantled all settlements there and returned to the internationally recognised pre-1967 border."

        Yes they did. They also blockaded the Gaza strip and prevented / blocked significant material development there on the pretext that building materials and most industrial equipment were dual-use that could be used as weapons. If the Gaza strip had it's own independent infrastructure (power, telecoms, reverse osmosis and water supply, international trade with it's neighbours etc) yes, there would be a higher risk of Hamas having more weapons. But what would more likely happen given everything we know about trade, prosperity and human nature is that a stable and truly independent Palestinian state in Gaza would generate more jobs, Palestinians would be wealthier and busier (ie less likely to get involved in acts of terror), and people would get to mingle and be exposed to different ideas to that of the Hamas party line etc. WTF did Israel expect would happen, that the Palestinians would just sit in their cage like tame hamsters??

        And similair arguments vis-a-vis West Bank also break down, Israeli settlers aren't occupying the western parts of the west bank that are high ground and are closest to Israel (ie could be considered security risk for Israel). They are occupying mostly the best agricultural land closer to the river Jordan

        1. Casca Silver badge

          So, you missed the border to Egypt then...

          1. jmch Silver badge

            "So, you missed the border to Egypt then..."

            Since you're recycling your comments I might as well recycle my answer...

            https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2023/10/14/nvidia_mellanox_israel_letter/#c_4743269

    6. imanidiot Silver badge

      "all occupied territories"

      depends entirely on your definition of occupied territories. Because Israel will say there's no such thing. The truth is somewhere in the middle. And both sides have been wrestling pigs.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why would you go to a music festival on the border right when things are clearly escalating?

    Surely the organisers should have called it off for safety concerns.

    1. Munehaus

      Re: Why would you go to a music festival on the border right when things are clearly escalating?

      There was no escalation until the hamas terrorist attack on the festival (and other places at the same time).

      1. andy gibson

        Re: Why would you go to a music festival on the border right when things are clearly escalating?

        "Israeli state media said Thursday its military did receive intel about a Hamas attack - three days before a rocket barrage and roving squads of gunmen killed over a thousand people - but opted not to take action."

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-egypt-warned-foreign-affairs-gaza

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Why would you go to a music festival on the border right when things are clearly escalating?

          Be that as it may, it seems like whoever in Israel got the warning didn't take it seriously, and neither festival-goers nor festival organisers were aware that there was anything escalating.

          Although I do have to say, even if there was no warning of escalation it's still right next to a border with a dangerous enemy. Surely there's plenty of other locations in Israel that are remote enough of for a festival but also close enough for logistics?

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