back to article When is a PC an AI PC? Nobody seems to know or wants to tell

Execs at the biggest PC makers seem to be salivating at the prospect of AI computers inflating their margins – even if they are unable or unwilling to define the emerging category. Lenovo pledged at the Canalys EMEA Forum 2023 to bring the AI form factor to market sometime between the second half of next year and early 2025, …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Flame

    What a load of bullshit

    "An AI PC," he added, "is a PC that learns about you continuously, it's a PC that is your personal foundation model within the data within the PC and it is a PC that will be able to interact with you more naturally."

    What you're actually saying is that Google can go cry in a corner, you're making a PC that will report our every click, hesitation and decision to some remote data store to be combed over incessantly by multiple scripts that will inevitably sell all that profiling to all and sundry.

    Well I'm not having any of that. I've been using computers since the IBM PC. I don't need you to "help".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What a load of bullshit

      ah, but it won't report our every click, hesitation and decision to some remote data store to be combed over incessantly, it will process all those clicks, hesitations and decisions and it will send a regular, neat report to its masters. And you'll pay for electricity while it compiles those reports on your machine.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't need you to "help".

      'they' don't care whether you 'need' anything, you're just a means (aggragated) to their end of higher profits.

    3. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Re: What a load of bullshit

      -- I've been using computers since the IBM PC. I don't need you to "help". --

      I've been using computers since well before the IBM PC and I don't need any help from super-clippy either!

    4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: What a load of bullshit

      Bullshit? Yes, breath deeply, there's still a lingering fishy aroma to those that recall...

      https://www.theregister.com/2015/02/19/superfish_lenovo_spyware/

      I expect some of that extra processing will come in handy to obfuscate what they get up to

    5. ITMA Silver badge

      Re: What a load of bullshit

      And remember - this is the same Lenovo who preinstalled Superfish spyware on their PCs.

      https://www.theregister.com/2015/02/19/superfish_lenovo_spyware/

      https://www.theregister.com/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/

  2. Fazal Majid

    A simple definition

    My definition would be a computer that can run a GPT3-equivalent LLM locally, since GPT3 is the one that kick-started the current AI revolution. This would need at least 64 to 128GB of RAM accessible by a GPU or NPU. Thus the Mac Studio qualifies, as would a PC with a couple of nVidia 4070s. Today's price for such a config is about $5000, but expect that to fall quickly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A simple definition

      > the current AI revolution

      That would be Alan T. spinning in his grave.

      1. Frogmelon

        Re: A simple definition

        How do you think they intend to power this new AI PC revolution? And when the AI isn't AI'ing they can use the spare processing power to generate a few Bitcoins. :)

    2. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: A simple definition

      > Today's price for such a config is about $5000, but expect that to fall quickly

      So, approximately ten times more expensive than a perfectly serviceable PC. And all that oomph will be eaten up running the LLM, need to add on some more to allow it to do something useful as well.

      Given the current tech climate, just how long is it going to take to drop to a price-point that it could actually be considered worth buying by the general office or home user? Have you noticed nVidia (or similar GPU providers) dropping its prices recently?

      Not to mention the power used by a rig like you describe!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A simple definition

        It won't though, the only constraining factor for *running* an LLM on your local machine right now is RAM...and RAM is cheap, especially in older machines.

        I work in a lab where quite a few people run their own LLMs on their machines to assist with software development, and their machines can be anywhere up to 10 years old (because they have specific hardware that needs to be compatible).

        If you're training an LLM, then it's a different story.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A simple definition

        Why all the fuss about the price? The people who are pushing Machine Learning (it's not their fault their spell checker changed it to Artificial Intelligence - they would never over hype anything) are EXPERTS!

        I have been following them and a number of evangelists, gurus and influencers on TiK-Dork and idiotstagram for ages, and thanks to their advice I can EASILY afford to but a PC to do this. I will simply sell some of my NFTs, get paid in craptocurrency and as the blockchain is secure I will be able to withdraw my funds which have grown incredibly thanks to Sam Bankcard-Fraud and the team at FTX.

        You luddites need to get with the program (or is that programme, when I have an AI PC it will put the right word..or Pogrom, or Pomegranate, not sure)

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: A simple definition

      Even simpler definition:

      A PC capable of running Windows 12,.

      Wino 1 l will most probably which require an AI chip to support the AI functionality MS are building into Windows.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A simple definition

      Is that for training or replay?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A simple definition

        Exactly! It's amazing how many commentards seem to think that AI is a passing fad and even more astonishing is how many of these commentards have no idea how LLMs work. Are we sure this is still a tech forum?

        I've got quantised AI models working on Raspberry Pi's...granted, they're not as broadly powerful as say GPT4...but for the specific use cases the models were trained for, they exceed GPT4 in at least one area.

        I took an existing, "good enough", LLM and performed some additional training with it to make it competent at wifi surveys, network analysis and device fingerprinting...it's a 1.5GB quantised model that runs pretty well on a Raspberry Pi Zero 2W that I built into a handheld device that I carry around for doing network surveys and audits with...it isn't lightning fast, but that doesn't really matter because no matter how fast your LLM runs, the quality of the results will be the same...also, you don't need instant results...you just need the speed of the results to be faster than a human...which they are, no matter what speed they run at...because for a human to complete a basic report on a network based on the collected data, it would take at least a day...my Pi based LLM will have a basic report for me within 5-10 minutes...using that report, I can bang out my own report (after carefully reading the AI one, just in case, the AI hasn't provided any barking mad results yet, but you always have to be vigilant, as with any person / machine you farm out a task to) in about an hour.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A simple definition

      What the hell are you on about?

      I have a local LLM running on my network that I use daily, it runs on a quad core Xeon-E3 from 9 years ago with 32GB RAM...the performance of the LLM is roughly equivalent to GPT3.5...the results are probably better, because I am using a models tailored to my use cases.

      AI models are computationally intensive to train, but trivial to use...especially quantised models.

      Ironically, the Mac silicon based Macs are absolutely dismal at AI currently compared to stuff much older than itself...especially generative AI for making images.

  3. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    is a PC that learns about you continuously

    "An El Reg commentard went to make a cup of tea, when s/he came back the pc had uninstalled Windows 11 and reinstalled Windows 7, opened up notepad showing a message which said 'There: happy now?'."

    1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Re: is a PC that learns about you continuously

      I'd have to uninstall W7 and install W11 first for that to work <G>

  4. ecofeco Silver badge

    The difference?

    Hyperbole.

    Was this a trick question?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    a PC that learns about you continuously

    and it won't hurt a bit!

  6. Michael Strorm Silver badge

    Here's what an "AI PC" is...

    It's a PC whose manufacturers have decided they can make lots more money by associating it with the latest technological bandwagon, and who will then work backwards from that to figure out how to justify the tag, most likely by slapping some privacy-invading AI crapware on.

  7. sketharaman

    What happens in a PC anyway?

    With the growing use of virtualization, VDI, cloud storage and cloud computing over the last 10-15 years, virtually all programs and data of the PC user are increasingly resident on the cloud. As a result, a PC has virtually become a Dumb Terminal these days. I wonder what user-specific data is even there on the local hard disk of the PC anymore for AI PC to get trained on and work as a Personal Assistant.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What happens in a PC anyway?

      Not a Linux user.

  8. IceC0ld

    SO, the BIG question here then, is this

    Will AI help me to slot my enemies in Counter Strike better than I can do now ?

    I mean, seriously, if it can't do that, why would I even bother wanting one, let alone NEED one :o)

    1. cyberdemon Silver badge
      Terminator

      I'm sure you could offload your counterstrike playing to an AI that has learned to "slot enemies" far better than you ever could, thanks to a few billion rounds of training courtesy of users of 'cloud gaming platforms' like the one Microsoft just bribedvigorously lobbied regulators around the world to allow them to purchase and slurp.

      And I'm sure a further iteration same AI definitely won't be used by a robot to 'slot' you and/or your children / grandchildren one day.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      In short...yes...

      I've experimented with using an HDMI capture card passing the video through various computer vision algorithms. It is entirely possible to have a second monitor setup on a second machine, running computer vision to identify targets in Counter Strike...there is a small delay, but it doesn't really impact anything if your intention is to spot enemies that you otherwise might not have seen.

      I haven't yet tried anything out on CS2...but it's only a matter of updating the dataset to reflect the new graphics.

      I haven't experimented with sending inputs to the "host" machine yet, but there is no reason it couldn't be done and therefore there is no reason you couldn't build an AI to play Counter Strike for you.

      The real battle is bringing the latency down.

  9. Matthew 25

    Call me a Luddite

    I don't want an AI PC. I want a nice dumb one that just does what I tell it to do.

    1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

      Re: Call me a Luddite

      "I want a nice dumb one that just does what I tell it to do."

      May your every wish be granted.

      -- Ancient Chinese curse.

  10. Zack Mollusc

    Uptick in fruitful work.

    This does actually sound like it could be a benefit. Instead of spending two hours composing an email or presentation filled with lies, half-truths and errors, a manager could have the LLM compose an email or presentation filled with lies, half-truths and errors in only a couple of minutes.

    This will enable a sixtyfold increase in the quantity of pointless timewasting, which will obviously lead to a sixtyfold increase in profits.

    1. cyberdemon Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Uptick in fruitful work.

      You must work in the Lenovo Marketing department

    2. bofh1961

      Re: Uptick in fruitful work.

      The AI generated text would be too easily detected because the syntax, grammar and spelling would be perfect... semantically they'd be identical - completely meaningless no matter how many times you reread them.

  11. Rich 2 Silver badge

    This is a joke, yes?

    There is an awful lot of marketing bollocks about but this is impressive by anyone’s standards.

    As for having a PC that monitors what you do all the time, why would anyone want that? And as AI doesn’t actually exist but is being used as a synonym for a LLM, why would i want a PC that runs a LLM? To do what?

    Utter bollocks

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is a joke, yes?

      why would i want a PC that runs a LLM?

      A software co might want to run an in-house server for private CoPilot-like service.

      Or an electronics manufacturer wants an in-house service for visual product inspection - they don't want to leak their proprietary design or quality data.

      Or a retailer wants to use it for visually identifying goods at a self check out, etc, which might require continual updating for new products.

      In house also means it won't fail due to internet interruption - one less snafu.

  12. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

    Hype

    No one's rooting for a PC that "learns everything about me" and most likely sends the results back to Lenovo HQ.

    This is merely a ploy to inflate their margins by jumping on the AI Hype Bandwagon. I predict it will have a simple Neural Processor on-board or NN GPU software that don't cost much more to add but can be sold for premium prices. Or so they think.

  13. 43300 Silver badge

    "When is a PC an AI PC?"

    When the marketing bollocks says that it is?

  14. Pete 2 Silver badge

    The new "gaming"

    > the prospect of AI computers inflating their margins – even if they are unable or unwilling to define the emerging category.

    Yup. Primarily a marketing term to convince those with too much money that they are getting something that will inflate their egos abilities.

    So make something that is a little bit better, even if only in entirely irrelevant specifications, and then flog it as revolutionary. At three times the price.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like