back to article Right to repair advocates have a new opponent: Scientologists

Right to repair advocates have made significant gains across the US of late, but the latest challenge to the movement faces a challenge from a surprising place: the Church of Scientology. In a letter filed earlier this month with the US Copyright Office regarding its triennial review of Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) …

  1. WolfFan

    Hmm.

    Amazing. No mention of Boeing products, volcanoes, or weird aliens. Someone was showing most un-Rrg-like restraint.

    1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Hmm.

      Excuse me, the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Alien

        the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

        > Excuse me, the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

        You are in violation of scripture. The DC-8 is a copy of the spaceships that Xenu used to transport billions of aliens to Teegeeack (Earth) 75 million years ago and stacked them round volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs. The disembodied remnants of these re-occurring as space cooties .. er .. body thetans.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

          "> Excuse me, the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

          You are in violation of scripture. The DC-8 is a copy of the spaceships that Xenu used to transport billions of aliens to Teegeeack (Earth) 75 million years ago and stacked them round volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs. The disembodied remnants of these re-occurring as space cooties .. er .. body thetans."

          What really floors me is that you aren't making this nonsense up but quoting chapter and verse.

          1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

            South Park summarised it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2EUfinwHo

            1. aerogems Silver badge

              Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

              Dum(b), dum(b), dum(b), dum(b), dum(b)!

              (Different episode, I know, but it still applies)

              Bootnote: I remember seeing that episode and the text at the bottom "This is what Scientologists actually believe" and still figured they were just making a joke. Then a friend of mine told me it's true. At a previous job they were so bored one day they started reading the Scientology bible or whatever you call it, and that the South Park depiction was actually accurate.

              Second Bootnote: Is it too soon to make comments about a certain A-lister Hollywood star being a fudge packer?

              1. Woodnag

                Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                On Second Bootnote: Yes, too soon. None of yer fu'ing business.

                1. aerogems Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                  It was a reference to a scene in a South Park episode. Like the time a number of Hollywood A-listers literally won't come out of the closet in one of the kid's room. If you've ever seen an episode of South Park at all, let alone any of the ones where they make fun of Scientology, you would have gotten the reference.

                  1. aerogems Silver badge
                    Joke

                    Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                    https://youtu.be/EPzvExtJgxw?feature=shared

                    "Dad! Tom Cruise won't come out of the closet!"

                    https://youtu.be/28JN3N-C0lc?feature=shared

              2. jmch Silver badge

                Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                "Is it too soon to make comments about a certain A-lister Hollywood star being a fudge packer?"

                The sexual preferences of other people, however famous they are, are their own business. OTOH, as far as I am concerned, feel free to make fun of anyone and everyone's religious beliefs.

                I know that both are considered 'protected' characteristics by law, but there is a big difference.... a person's race, gender and sexual orientation is what they are born with, and cannot change. A person's religion is a belief, and however deeply it may have been indocrinated, it is still, ultimately, a choice.

                1. aerogems Silver badge
                  Facepalm

                  Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                  Tell me you've never watched South Park without saying it.

                  In one episode the kids are visiting a chocolate factory and see a certain Hollywood A-lister literally packing fudge.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                    Give up on it, aerogem.

                    They found a way to be righteous and lecturing in public, they'll never care about the actual reference.

                    1. aerogems Silver badge

                      Re: the DC-8 was a product of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

                      Found the actual scene, and the bit where he storms off saying he's going to sue the "entire intolerant town" just makes it all the funnier given the comments from people who didn't get the reference.

                      https://youtu.be/p-HA1Rs96Po?feature=shared

  2. David 132 Silver badge
    Coat

    Scientologists and auto manufacturers

    ...both worried that R2R will enable people to tamper with their Cruise control mechanisms.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Scientologists and auto manufacturers

      ba-dum-tish.wav

  3. Tron Silver badge

    This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

    On behalf of my clients, Venkman, Stantz and Spengler, I have sent a similar letter regarding Proton Packs. These should not be reverse engineered by amateurs, civilians or casuals. There are real and present dangers of a dimensional gate being opened.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

      I am Walter Peck, and I demand the right to dismantle your clients' storage facility.

      1. Michael Hoffmann Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

        You are opening yourself to someone posting a sentence starting with "this man has no".

        Not that *I* would ever do that!

        1. 45RPM Silver badge

          Re: This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

          Is this true?

          1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

            Re: This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

            "Yes, it's true. This man has no [TWINKIE]."

      2. aerogems Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

        You'll have to ask the keymaster.

        1. KittenHuffer Silver badge

          Re: This is srs bsnss and no time for levity or larking about.

          I'd much rather have an intimate conversation with the Gatekeeper!

  4. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

    Expose

    the organisation as snake oil salesmen?

    At this point I thought we all knew it was a way of extracting large sums of money from people under the guise of 'religion'

    Hint: The bible is free

    The Koran is free

    The Torah is free

    The hindu sacred texts are free

    Scientology charges 100's for their texts....

    1. MrReynolds2U
      Joke

      Re: Expose

      Of course they need to make money.

      Golden tablets don't grow on trees... Sorry, under trees

      1. Graham Dawson Silver badge

        Re: Expose

        Isn't that the Mormons?

        1. 45RPM Silver badge

          Re: Expose

          I think you accidentally spelled that with an extra M

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            Only one M in that, so I gotta ask, what were (or are) "ormons"?

            1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
              Joke

              Re: Expose

              Did you mean The Osmonds? Marie and Donny Osmond

        2. veti Silver badge

          Re: Expose

          The Book of Mormon is so free, you sometimes have to hide quietly behind the sofa to avoid being given one.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            The Books of Gideon are so free, sometimes you'll find several copies behind the sofa you're hiding from the Mormons behind.

            1. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

              Re: Expose

              Every Gideon Bible in hotel rooms I've stayed in has a handwritten note inside the front cover offering up the telephone numbers and websites of various organisations including Samaritans because plenty of people book hotel rooms and read bibles to make their peace with God before they end their lives. I figure if it helps one person then I've not wasted my time or ink.

        3. MrReynolds2U

          Re: Expose

          ha ha absolutely, my mistake, but I retain the right to re-post the joke if we ever discuss the Mormons.

    2. Grunchy Silver badge

      Re: Expose

      Hint: The bible is free

      The Koran is free

      The Torah is free

      Mark Twain described a circumstance in which Tom Sawyer had to do a LOT of horse-trading to muster up enough Sunday School credits to be awarded his “free” bible ! !

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        Re: Expose

        That was probably a nice-looking copy, not the text as a whole, which he probably already had access to. In addition, that was in the 1800s when printing was a bit more expensive. Nowadays, there are copies of most religious texts nearly everywhere you look. No matter what language you speak, if you have internet access you can get a copy in probably under a minute, and there are people who make it their lives work to print up paper copies of their favorite one and give them away, just as there are translators who will learn a language, or in the past make up a system of orthography, just to translate one into that language.

      2. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Re: Expose

        > Hint: The bible is free

        But learning how to read and interpret it *properly* will cost you a pretty penny.

      3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Expose

        >Hint: The bible is free, The Koran is free, The Torah is free

        Only the regular paperbacks.

        The Sports Illustrated Bible - Swimsuit edition, the Rabbi edition Torah (with the answers in the back) and the pop-up Koran are all $$$$

    3. aerogems Silver badge

      Re: Expose

      To be fair, most major organized religions (used broadly as the British government had the right idea in denying Scientology official church status) find ways to bilk their followers, Scientology is just more up front and transactional about it. At least on this side of the Atlantic, most Christian churches say that worshipers should give 10% of their income to the church, and pretty much anywhere you go the Catholic Church has made guilting people into giving them money an art form. And it's not like all those Mosques and Temples build themselves, and the Imams and Rabbis work for free. Scientology is very up front about fleecing its flock, doing it right out in the open with a literal menu, while others try to guilt worshipers into giving "donations".

      If people just gave the money they donate to various religious organizations to a single person in their community who is in need, it would have a much larger impact overall.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Expose

        At least on this side of the Atlantic, most Christian churches say that worshipers should give 10% of their income to the church

        Which side of the Atlantic is that ?

        If you mean the other side from me, then I can believe it. But on this side I've never heard of it.

        .

        .

        .

        .

        OK, I'm in the UK - that should clarify things.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Expose

          On the UK side, "strong encouragement" to tithe (pass on 10% of your income) is still around but generally restricted to smaller churches, such as Elim Pentecostal.

          (Then again, they rarely get income from postcards of their stained glass or £1 to take a brass rubbing, so...)

          1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            I think that many of these small churches you talk about are from elsewhere as people have immigrated (urgh, that seems such a clumsy word, but is correct) to the UK, and brought their churches (or at least the operating model of their churches) with them.

            The concept of Tithes to the Church goes back to the middle ages. I'm pretty sure that they mostly fell out of being required around the time of Henry VIII, who much preferred receiving the money himself as taxes.

            I've been in involved in several churches in the UK (I'm not religious, but other members of my family are), and although church members are encouraged to give gifts to the church, there is no compulsion.

            Long-term established churches in the UK seem to mostly get their income from the investments made when they did get large gifts (I've known people who have left their entire estate to their church in their will). You'd probably be surprised by how much property (and I'm not talking churches themselves) is owned by churches in the UK.

            1. Nick Ryan

              Re: Expose

              At one point the churches in the UK were often the largest property owners in an area, owning around 1/4 of the country, sometimes through investment and purchases but often through being gifted land. After all, how much holier than your neighbour are you if you give more land to the church than they do? Henry VIII had a significant difference of opinion regarding churches and property ownership and accidentally came to own the land, sell it off and then have the monasteries destroyed. He didn't start this whole process, but he proved to be very effective at it. Those that disagreed with this process tended to disagree for the rest of their life, which wasn't always very long, however those who voluntarily took part in it were reported to have received quite reasonable compensation.

              1. Peter Ford

                Re: Expose

                A good many of the shopping malls were built on land owned by the Church of England, meaning they would have to abide by covenants on the land, such as not opening on Easter Sunday. Not sure if that's still the case.

                Some of the other big landowners in England were the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge universities - there is the story that you could walk between the two universities entirely on land owned by their colleges. Again, probably not the case any more.

                1. 43300 Silver badge

                  Re: Expose

                  The Church of England is still one of the country's biggest landowners. Gateshead Metro Centre was one shopping centre project they were heavily involved in (think they still have a significant minority shareholding).

                  Not opening on Easter Sunday is nothing to do with this - that's due to the anachronous Sunday trading law (the one which makes the supermarkets and other large shops open no more than 6 hours on Sundays, among other things), which ought to be repealed.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Expose

                    But when talking about "Church of England", don't fall into the trap of thinking it's one big organisation.

                    The central church may well be (well I think is) quite well off thanks to owning some prime land/properties.

                    The the various dioceses are independent of the central church as far as finances go. Ours is definitely not as well off as the central church.

                    And then the individual parishes* are independent again. And we have "not a lot" of money. So "not a lot" that we don't have the money needed for essential repairs, and not even proper maintenance. And like a lot, we have an ageing congregation with members that inconveniently die off in old age - I'm counting down to retirement and am the youngest regular member by a good few years ! Our only hope of staying open is the somehow convert the rather impractical building (full of pews, a Victorian form of punishment) into something that can be rented out for corporate functions etc. (it's a good shape and size for that, IF we get rid of the pews and add mod cons.

                    1. 43300 Silver badge

                      Re: Expose

                      I know how it works - used to have a lot of involvement with the CofE. Disgusting organsation, which manages to be both one and many bodies - one when it suits it (Bishops in the House of Lords, representing 'The Church') and many when that suits (financial, generally avoiding accountability for things).

                      So yes, there is the somewhat paradoxical situation that the central body / Church Commissioners are vastly rich, as are some individual dioceses and individual churches (e.g. in some cities a cathedral or churches can own considerable amounts of prime retail property). At the other end of the spectrum, some churches have no money and are kept going through the efforts of a dwindling group of little old ladies - struggling to raise money to repair the leaky roof, while the bishops live in splendour. I have a lot of respect for people like the little old ladies, but none at all for those at the top and the whole hierarchical structure.

                      1. I could be a dog really Silver badge

                        Re: Expose

                        Err, and the little old men - a description of which I am rapidly starting to resemble.

        2. Jan 0 Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: Expose,

          >OK, I'm in the UK - that should clarify things.

          Have you never heard of tithes and tithe barns?

          1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

            Re: Expose,

            I used to live close to Tithe Barn Street, on which was one of the few remaining Tithe Barns in the UK

            1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

              Re: Expose,

              Ah, history for the tourist!

              I quote from a document referenced from Wikipedia.

              According to English Heritage, "exactly how barns in general were used in the Middle Ages is less well understood than might be expected, and the subject abounds with myths (for example, not one of England's surviving architecturally impressive barns was a tithe barn, although such barns existed)"

              Wikipedia attributes this to the page "http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/harmondsworth-barn/history-and-research/research", but that now points to a more general page nowadays. I could look it up on Archive.org, but I can't be bothered.

              1. that one in the corner Silver badge

                Re: Expose,

                > not one of England's surviving architecturally impressive barns was a tithe barn

                According to <a href="http://www.horburyhistory.org/Tithe-Barn-Street/>the local history site</a> that tithe barn was part-converted to housing in/after 1850 and the remaining half burnt down in 1904, so looks like everybody wins this round.

                1. that one in the corner Silver badge

                  Re: Expose,

                  Can anyone spare a closing quote?

                  1. Rol

                    Re: Expose,

                    Huncoat still has their stocks, though sadly they are no longer in use. A few more years outside of EU protections and a few more years of Tory governance, and they might be back as an alternative to custodial sentencing.

                    1. CountCadaver Silver badge

                      Re: Expose,

                      Burning at the stake, breaking on the wheel are 2 options more in-line with the current home secretary's views on law and order....

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Expose

          I was sceptical too but when friends of mine in Manchester, UK, were "born again" they were told in no uncertain terms they had to tithe to be part of the church.

          It is most definitely a thing in the UK.

          1. Woodnag

            Re: Expose

            I heard that Hugh Hefner found God.... no, sorry, that's porn again. Not the same.

            1. tiggity Silver badge

              Re: Expose

              @Woodnag

              I heard he frequented a church that played a lot of ABBA music, & became Bjorn Again

          2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            Did they have to be born in Manchester again? It seems a shame to be saved and yet still a Lancastrian

        4. PRR Silver badge

          Re: Expose

          > on this side I've never heard of it.

          Reactionaries may say "offering". When the government and church are merged, "church tax".

          "Tithing is mentioned twice in the stories of the Biblical patriarchs:

          "In Genesis 14:18–20, Abraham, after rescuing Lot, met with Melchizedek. After Melchizedek's blessing, Abraham gave him a tenth of everything he has obtained from battle.

          "In Genesis 28:16–22, Jacob, after his visionary dream of Jacob's Ladder and receiving a blessing from God, promises God a tenth of his possessions."

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#Hebrew_Bible

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Expose

            Ah, why restrict yourself to one-off payments when you get the congregation to subscribe every month!

          2. Felonmarmer

            Re: Expose

            God can have my possessions too, as long as he picks them up in person.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Stork

        Re: Expose

        Perhaps i have not thought deeply enough about it, but so far I have not come up with good reasons why Scientology or Pastafarianism should not be afforded the same privileges as e.g. the Catholic Church.

        All are based on unprovable claims and both the first and the last have histories of making money by dubious means.

        1. Jan 0 Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Expose

          After deep thought, isn't the correct response that the Catholic Church and others should be afforded the same privileges as the Scientoloogists?

          1. aerogems Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            To file copious vexatious lawsuits, harass people endlessly*, and even institute a sort of indentured servitude? I think the world would be a much better place without that.

            * Some years ago I remember watching a documentary done by the BBC about Scientology in the US. Not only did the Scientology "Church" have the guy followed while he was in town -- amusingly he stopped at a stoplight, got out of his car and went up and knocked on the window of the Scientology tail -- they managed to track down the hotel he was staying at and were waiting for him in the lobby one day.

            1. Stork

              Re: Expose

              The Catholic Church has scaled back that sort of approach in recent decades, but try to go back 50 years in Ireland.

              Many religions still take a rather dim view of former adherents, even if their means of enforcement varies geographically.

        2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

          Re: Expose

          The pope seems sincere and genuinely believes his message. And this pope seems to have been a reasonably humble bloke before he got elevated to living in palaces. (Disclaimer: I'm not Catholic and I've not conducted a detailed study. I'm just relying on gleamings from news reports and the intro to his Wikipedia bio.) Is the senior leader of Scientology ("the chairman of the board", David Miscavige) as sincere? Or is he fleecing people and laughing at them behind their backs?

          Most religions tend to have branches that help poor people. Sikh gurdwaras, for example, offer people food free of cost. And as I understand, the Trussel Trust, which runs a lot of food banks, is basically a Christian organisation. And if you spend any time helping out the poor, you'll run into a bunch of people of faith. Does Scientology do this?

          Also, most genuine religious seem to have ascetics: people who give everything up all their possessions for a life of ritual; i.e. monks, nuns, etc... Again can you be a Scientological ascetic, living off what is provided by the church without owning anything for yourself, and still progress in the "religion"?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Expose

            > can you be a Scientological ascetic, living off what is provided by the church without owning anything for yourself, and still progress in the "religion"?

            From what I've read, that is precisely how you are supposed to live in Scientology. Progress up the ladder, join one of the "Orgs" - in particular Sea Org (if it is still afloat) - and you will have no choice.

        3. aerogems Silver badge

          Re: Expose

          Most of the major religions, like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, contain a core of how to live your life as a good person. You know, once you strip out all the supernatural and superstitious bullshit. They have the "10 Commandments" that are seemingly common sense things like don't steal, don't kill people, don't lie... basic shit really. And even if you don't believe Jesus was the son of God, or even a real person, the basic message of love and forgiveness is a good one. There are even still the odd examples of priests living up to the example hidden amongst all the child sexual abuse cases and the wonton greed.

          Scientology OTOH...

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            > Jesus.....

            the basic message of love and forgiveness is a good one.

            Over here, that old "woke Jesus" has been replaced by a new interpretation

            1. aerogems Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: Expose

              A sad, but true, statement.

              Call me old fashioned, but I figure you can't really call yourself a Christian -- a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ -- if you act in a way that is basically the exact opposite of the message in the Bible. It makes you an Antichrist. Maybe not in the sense that it's typically thought of, but at least as far as fitting the literal definition of the term.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Expose

                Try and tell a - certain type of "Christian" - that they should follow Jesus's example and be prepared for a face full of Matthew 5:17–19 and the claim that means that _every_ nasty little thing in the Old Testament is to be followed just as it says. Preferably interpreted the way _they_ want to - poor, misunderstood Onan.

                Well, until you suggest that they let their own virgin daughters be raped by the crowd when, for some reason, they get all in your face.

    4. spold Silver badge

      Re: Expose

      I think this is more in relation to repair brain altering devices.

    5. frankrider

      Re: Expose

      >The bible is free.

      I can’t really speak about the other books but most editions of the bible aren’t free. They’re copyrighted and only available for purchase.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Expose

        "most editions of the bible aren’t free"

        "Most editions" is not equivalent to "most copies". Not by a long shot.

        The Gideons supposedly distribute more than two copies per second, all day, every day. (They claim 70 million copies per year).

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Expose

        > They’re copyrighted and only available for purchase.

        Copyright: Life of author + 70 years.

        Claims author is immortal - laughs at Disney corporation

        1. Stork

          Re: Expose

          How about the holy ghostwriter?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Expose

        Ah, but "most editions" needn't equate to "most copies in circulation" or "best version worth copying".

        They might get snotty if you run off extra copies of the Geordie Bible but you can duplicate the KJV[1] as fast as you can refill your quill.

        [1] just the original bits, mind; they trick you by adding in useful cross-references and footnotes[2], which probably are still copyright.

        [2] e.g. "yes, that word is 'unicorn' and we are sticking to it!".

        1. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

          Re: Expose

          Buggre Alle this for a Larke.

    6. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: Expose

      “You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”

      L Ron Hubbard

      1. Old Used Programmer

        Re: Expose

        Randall Garrett claimed to have been at the lunch with L. Ron Hubbard and John W. Campbell when the exchange took place.

        1. Intractable Potsherd

          Re: Expose

          Wasn't Robert A Heinlein also supposed to gave been there at the time, the result being the truly awful "Stranger in a Strange Land" as an attempt to start a religion? Or am I mixing up drunken sci-fi author lunches?

      2. tel2016

        Re: Expose

        You CAN get rich writing science fiction, However LRH was terrible at writing science fiction, so using his ability to get people to believe his incredibly tall tails, started a 'religion' instead.

        1. Intractable Potsherd

          Re: Expose

          In general I agree, but I actually like "Battlefield Earth"!* There is something I find very playful about it, and the utterly mad change of direction from almost extinct, completely uneducated humanity to galactic superstars leaves me breathless every time!!

          *The book, not the film, of course!

          1. that one in the corner Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            Isn't the book of "Battlefield Earth" the one where they get a few bombs sitting together on a teleporation pad inside the aliens' home and then say something along the lines of "we'll explode the first one and if that doesn't do the trick, we'll try the next two together"?

          2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Expose

            For me, Battlefield Earth (the novel; I haven't seen the film, which is said to be execrable) falls into the "so terrible it's actually kind of enjoyable" category. I read it two or three times as a teenager, shaking my head at the inanity of it all – the pseudoscience (the Psychlos are made of viruses! their atmosphere explodes on contact with uranium!), yes, but also the amateurish characterization, plotting, and concepts – but carried along by its pulpy exuberance. I'm glad I read a great deal more of good, and even mediocre, science fiction, though, or it would have given me a terribly distorted view of the genre.

    7. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

      Re: Expose

      Yet, for all that, the entire canon (I use the term loosely) managed to get entered into public record in one of their notorious lawsuits.

  5. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
    Boffin

    Just another variation on the useless "lie detector"

    Lots more about e-meters here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dianetics#E-Meter

    1. aerogems Silver badge

      Re: Just another variation on the useless "lie detector"

      To be fair, the "lie detector" is kind of a misnomer that someone gave to it. All it really does is indicate whether someone is experiencing autonomic responses that indicate stress and thus deception. Of course it can also probably flag things like suddenly needing to pee as an indicator of deception. Of course, while lie detectors are at least based on some scientific principles, the e-meter is about as scientific as a love tester you may see in a bar. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if the thing is basically nothing more than a RNG.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Just another variation on the useless "lie detector"

        Not an RNG, no. It is actually a real electrodermal activity meter. That part is accurate. What they are doing with it is the part that is nonsense, not unlike palm, tea leaf or entrail reading.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just another variation on the useless "lie detector"

          Didn't they stick a PIC chip or similar micro in there so they could use the DMCA to silence people who try to publish the results of reverse engineering their brand of woo?

        2. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Just another variation on the useless "lie detector"

          Given how the meter needle is deliberately built without any damping mechanism at all, it will react to any old noise strong enough[1] to be picked up - which is one of the classical[2] ways of making an RNG.

          [1] funny how everyone in the Sea Org is suddenly "unclean"[3] whenever the diesel generator kicks in

          [2] now begins the discussion about how biassed such an RNG will be, it isn't _really_ random, not good enough to be included within /dev/rnd...

          [3] unclean, unthetan, unclear, unmutual - who knows.

    2. Mage Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: Just another variation on the useless "lie detector"

      And

      The efficacy and legitimacy of Scientology's use of the E-meter has been subject to extensive litigation[4][5][6] and in accordance with a federal court order, the Church of Scientology publishes disclaimers declaring that the E-meter "by itself does nothing", is incapable of improving health, and is used specifically for spiritual purposes.[7]

      Such devices have been used as research tools in many human studies, and as one of several components of the Leonarde Keeler's polygraph (lie detector) system, which has been widely criticized as ineffective and pseudoscientific by legal experts and psychologists.[8][9]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-meter

      I'd like to say what I think of Scientology, but that could be disadvantageous.

  6. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Alert

    Do you want snakes in your mailbox?

    Because that's how you get snakes in your mailbox.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Do you want snakes in your mailbox?

      "Do you want snakes in your mailbox?"

      Sure! If they aren't useful (Sonoma weather-proof rodent eaters), they will at least be tasty.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Do you want snakes in your mailbox?

        You have to deal with weather-proof rodents?

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Do you want snakes in your mailbox?

      Is that the sequel to Snakes on a Plane?

  7. D. Evans

    Great fun.

    Ah, so I can grab my multimeter, set it to resistance, and hold a probe in either hand.

    I'm not sure I'd pay $100 for a single use device. But then again I'm not about to join the Scientologists, or the "how to scam people out of money cult".

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Great fun.

      Only if you chant at the same time.... Ohm....

  8. Kev99 Silver badge

    They probably don't want people to find out that $$$ machine is just a bunch light bulbs and meters controlled the variable resistors.

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Not sure why not. Anyone who cares already knows. It's hard to see how additional exposure would harm the Scientologists.

  9. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
    Devil

    Huh

    E-meters have software now. Does that mean there was something "wrong" with the old ones?

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Huh

      I suspect it's not so much software as the logic involved in the current flow across a Wheatstone bridge.

      Which isn't exactly unknown to most of the commentardariat here, I'd wager ... O-level physics, from what I remember.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Huh

      >Does that mean there was something "wrong" with the old ones?

      God changes his(her) mind quite often

      When the implementation was in stone tablets it was a real pain to do in-field updates. You had to send a bunch of crusading knights.

      With software updates you can just roll out a quick patch to fix that whole "no-bacon+penis-snipping" bug

    3. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: Huh

      > E-meters have software now

      Well, even back in 2018 they had LCD digital readouts so they needed something to put some digits up on them.

      Just look at all those knobs!

      1. ravenviz Silver badge

        Re: Huh

        Brilliant introduction,"The Church of Scientology uses devices called E-Meters to measure Thetans in the body. We’re not going to discuss this further, because we don’t want to be murdered."

  10. katrinab Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Surely if the device requires an appropriately qualified person to operate it, there is *less* chance of adverse results due to the device not being within spec, not more?

    And if this company wants to ensure that people aren't subjected to inappropriate religious ceremonies as a result of incorrect equiment readings, then they need to do that with their own internal regulations. Laws aren't really going to help them.

  11. Updraft102

    "My hunch is that the Scientologists think granting the hacking community permission to dig into their E-Meter software will expose the whole operation as snake oil,"

    We already know.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    $cientology $nakeoil?

    “Although Hubbard's name is on the patent application, the E-meter was actually invented by a chiropractor named Volney Mathison, and was originally called the Mathison Model B Electropsychometer.”

    Volney Mathison presented L. Ron Hubbard with the first electropsychometer (or E-Meter) in 1951, the Model B. It was used for research throughout 1951”

    Galvanic Skin Response (GSR) is a physiological measure that has been used in psychological research for over a century.”

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: $cientology $nakeoil?

      apparently, it's called "Electrodermal activity" these days.

      Still only measures response to stimuli and not mythical aliens

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: $cientology $nakeoil?

        > Still only measures response to stimuli and not mythical aliens

        Why, mythical aliens are a stimulus like any other after all...

        1. usbac

          Re: $cientology $nakeoil?

          I was just going to add that, if I were dragged aboard an alien spacecraft, I'm sure my Electrodermal activity would change.

  13. Ball boy Silver badge

    This thing measures your *soul*?

    If this device can measure our soul then we have a problem in the making.

    To quote from the Good Book: The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

    "But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

    Substitute for Babel fish and simplify.

    We need a machine that measures irony - but the scale would have to go to 11 ;)

    1. Jeroen Braamhaar
      Go

      Re: This thing measures your *soul*?

      "We need a machine that measures irony - but the scale would have to go to 11 ;)"

      It would be stuck at over 9000.

    2. ravenviz Silver badge

      Re: This thing measures your *soul*?

      "the scale would have to go to 11"

      It's one ironicer!

  14. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Joke

    Humans

    Don't come with a 'quick start' guide, and nor are they 'specially trained in use of the device' - think that means we can avail of self-repair without being hauled up in court/the all mighty

    1. katrinab Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Humans

      Well "repairing" other humans without the appropriate medical licence is generally frowned upon.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Con men, frauds, snake oil salesmen, shysters, liars and cultists

    Including all those other religions.

  16. Bebu
    Childcatcher

    Trump's legal discards?

    I couldn't help wondering from the number of "sics'" the article referring to the letter from "Author Services, Inc." which unimpressive educational institution these legal types had graduated. For lawyers these are barely literate.

    1. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Trump's legal discards?

      You don't need education, you need faith!

      Must be the scariest joke I ever made.

  17. Manolo
    FAIL

    And other quacks to follow?

    I guess next on that list should be the orthomolecular quacks.

    They too work with mysterious "diagnostic" devices that measure your nutritional deficiencies through the imbalanced resonant molecular frequencies of your chakra, or whatever BS.

    1. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: And other quacks to follow?

      If these people had any sense[1] then they'd only ever call their woo stuff like "Biodynamic Sequentials" or "Bio-Syncreticism"[2] or "Brisingamen Stones"[3].

      Then whenever anyone says "that is all just BS" they can reply "yes, I'm glad you know so much about our beliefs already, may I interest you in a pamphlet?".

      [1] yes, I know, irony overload

      [2] "bio" is a very useful prefix for this

      [3] nope, bored of "bio" now

  18. Arthur the cat Silver badge
    Unhappy

    the literary, theatrical and musical works of L. Ron Hubbard

    Theatrical and musical works? FFS, his SF books are bad enough(*).

    (*) Though I'm told they did get better after he died(**).

    (**) Nope, not joking. Ghost writers. :-)

  19. Tron Silver badge

    There's good money in religion. [Judas VI. 23]

    We could crowd-fund and sell Deity Detectors. Let's face it, capacitors are awesome. They can do so much. Filtering, tuning, timing, deity detection. A small box containing a deity bridge circuit and we can sell happiness to the less technically-minded multitudes. With our device, they can be 100% sure that they are facing their deity when they pray. Perfect for the true believer. Do this right and we can be posting on here from our own island by next year. I first came up with the idea at Jesuit College, but Spiritual Tech. was tough - too much maths. I switched to the Social Sciences: Witchfinding and Nun Studies.

    1. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: There's good money in religion. [Judas VI. 23]

      Well, we all know that Pterry has already put us on the right path to you DD with the Rev Counter[1], or, at least, reported back to us of its invention by old "Numbers" Riktor.

      [1] for Use in Ecclesiastical Areas

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Haven't they heard of the Streisand Effect?

    Haven't they heard of the Streisand Effect?

    1. Winkypop Silver badge

      Re: Haven't they heard of the Streisand Effect?

      I don’t think they’ve heard of the Streisand Effect

  21. GraXXoR Bronze badge

    It scares me that so many people around the world are still beholden to massive cults in the 21st century.

    And that they have real influence in politics and society.

  22. Claptrap314 Silver badge

    Join new group alt.talk.scientology?

    The techies and Scientology have been at war for a LONG time.

    Keep the popcorn handy.

  23. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

    It's a joke, really it is!

    Harlan Ellison interviewed by (now defunked Wings Magazine)

    Ellison: Scientology is bullshit! Man, I was there the night L. Ron Hubbard invented it, for Christ Sakes!

    I was sitting in a room with L. Ron Hubbard and a bunch of other science fiction writers. L. Ron Hubbard was famous among science fiction writers because he was the first one to have an electric typewriter.

    Wings: He claimed to have written Dianetics in a weekend, and nobody can deny it.

    Ellison: That's true. He wrote Dianetics in one weekend, and you know how he used to write? He used to take a roll of white paper, like paper you wrap fish in. He had it on the wall, and he would roll it into the typewriter and he would begin typing. When he was done, he would tear it off and leave it as one whole long novel.

    We were sitting around one night... who else was there? Alfred Bester, and Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester Del Rey, and Ron Hubbard, who was making a penny a word, and had been for years. And he said "This bullshit's got to stop!" He says, "I gotta get money." He says, "I want to get rich".

    Wings: He is also supposed to have said on that same night: "The question is not how to make a million dollars, but how to keep it."

    Ellison: Right. And somebody said, "why don't you invent a new religion? They're always big." We were clowning! You know, "Become Elmer Gantry! You'll make a fortune!" He says, "I'm going to do it." Sat down, stole a little bit from Freud, stole a little bit from Jung, a little bit from Alder, a little bit of encounter therapy, pre-Janov Primal Screaming, took all that bullshit, threw it all together, invented a few new words, because he was a science fiction writer, you know, "engrams" and "regression", all that bullshit. And then he conned John Campbell, who was crazy as a thousand battlefields. I mean, he believed any goddamned thing. He really believed blacks were inferior. I mean he really believed that. He was also very nervous when I was in his office because I was a Jew. You know, he was afraid maybe I would spring horns or something.

    Anyhow, the way he conned John was that he had J. A. Winter, who was a doctor, who was a close friend of John's, and he got him to run this article on Dianetics, the new science of mental health.

    Wings: Dianometry was the first article, I believe.

    Ellison: Right. And science fiction fans will go for any goddamm thing. They'll believe anything, man, they will believe in the abominable snowman and the Bermuda Triangle, in Pyramid Power, in EST, in Scientology, in the Second Coming, they'll believe in any goddamm thing, they don't give a shit. They go to see Star Wars; they think it is for real!

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