back to article Stalking victims sue Tile and Amazon for negligence over tracking tech

A lawsuit filed this week alleges the integration between Amazon location-tracking network Sidewalk and Tile's trackers and apps has "magnified" the danger posed to stalking victims "exponentially," and claims the vendors have been negligent in the implementation of safeguards. The would-be class action complaint was filed by …

  1. Mike 137 Silver badge

    The greatest concern

    It's amazing, indeed appalling, how uncooperative Tile were with the authorities - refusing to respond to a subpoena for records of the stalking on the grounds it was "out of state", ignoring a subsequent in-state subpoena for the same information, only finally releasing the required detailed records of the stalking (which had existed all the time) when the stalker sued the victims for complaining to the police. These are the folks we are asked to trust with our "online lives" -- I'm really glad I don't have one.

    1. anothercynic Silver badge

      Re: The greatest concern

      This. We all like to complain about Apple and its slow responses about AirTags being abused, but this is something else. This goes way beyond Apple's level of stroppiness. Well done, Tile, NOT.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The greatest concern

      I had a few Tiles before Apple launched its Airtags, and what put me off using them was that I wanted them to only work locally, i.e. start up the app when I was looking for something or guard it against being moved away, but the Tile app used literally every single trick in the book to keep itself running in the background and would seek to reinstate them if you, for instance, did not allow it to collect location data in the background (which translates as it continuing to run).

      Its incessant attempts to keep running meant I was using it less and less. When Apple launched Airtags and used privacy principles I could agree with, the Tiles went into e-waste the same day (kept the 2032 batteries as they were quite recently renewed :) ).

      The only challenge with Airtags is that if you buy the 4 set and use them at the same time you will also have to eventually replace the batteries at almost the same time - they do seem to run out almost in sync. It's a bit like when we had non-LED brake lights: you always replaced the bulbs together because they were usually of the same age, and otherwise you'd be doing it again a week later on the other side :).

      I do like to know how the proximity detection works, though - given that it's directional it suggests iPhones have multiple Bluetooth antennas.

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        Re: The greatest concern

        The attempts to continue running were intentional, because one of the features their system has is having phones look for trackers that have been lost, including yours, so they can point out their location to you if you ask later. I don't mean that you have to like that or even use the product. I don't have Tile, Apple, or any trackers myself. However, if your complaint is about the app trying to continue running, it's useful to know why it is and it is also useful to know that AirTags are exactly the same. The service running them doesn't have to do any tricks to continue running because Apple baked it into the device, but everyone who has AirTags or hasn't specifically opted out of the Find My network has a service on their IOS device that is running at all times, exactly the same way that Tile's app would.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The greatest concern

          everyone who has AirTags or hasn't specifically opted out of the Find My network has a service on their IOS device that is running at all times, exactly the same way that Tile's app would.

          The vast difference is that (a) Apple has a clearly formulated and expressed approach to how my privacy is protected and its means to do so is well established and (b) Apple allows me to find tags that stay around that are not mine, automatically and by default, In addition, not unimportantly, Apple does have indeed the reach to make this work pretty much everywhere, whereas Tile has not.

          With Tile I have to run an app with already questionable tactics to stay running to leak information, yet the payoff in finding/tracking my 'own' Tiles is far from certain as it depends on how well Tiles sell globally (which, I would imagine, is not that well since Airtags appeared).

          Overall, that doesn't result in a good risk vs reward equation, so I disagree with you that both are equivalent - they're not.

          1. doublelayer Silver badge

            Re: The greatest concern

            Equivalent from a product perspective: probably not. Equivalent from an app running at all times, most definitely. Apple doesn't have to do any tricks because they have the authority to tell their operating system to never stop this bit over here. Tiel doesn't have it, hence the tricks you saw. Both of them manage the products they have with the same software persistence. The "questionable tactics" are because Apple doesn't allow them to more simply ask for the permission to continue running but reserves that for their own software. Blaming Tile for something that Apple chose to do (and incidentally could be the subject of an anticompetition complaint) suggests you may be unfamiliar with the similarity or biased on one side.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who, you?

    "Life360 remains committed to the safety and privacy of our users." said every handgun manufacturer ever. I feel so protected as a non-user.

    1. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

      Re: Who, you?

      1. Handguns manufactured around the world are absolutely safe to operate. If a handgun fails and injures or kills someone, then a law suit is justified. If someone in possession of a handgun uses it to commit a crime, that is not a liability of the manufacturer.

      2. Cars are use in crimes all the time, like the SUV used to run down paraders in the US. Is the car manufacturer liable? No.

      3. This is a mis-use of the product, stopping that would be difficult. You can certainly fault them for their sleazy advertising though.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who, you?

        Most car driving will at least require you to acquire a license to ensure you have a basic understanding of the rules and regulations, and it's illegal to operate a vehicle without it.

        No such luck with US guns, despite a large majority of the population in favour of establishing at least some limits.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Who, you?

          Also pretty crap attempt at equivalency. Missed out 'think of the children', though, so there maybe still hope.

        2. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

          Re: Who, you?

          There is a Constitutional right to be armed, but driving is a privilege. Those that abuse their Constitutional right to be armed by committing a crime get locked up.

          And no, there is not a large majority in favor of limits on rights. There is a small minority making a lot of noise for limits, trying to sound like a majority.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Who, you?

            A new Fox News Poll finds most voters favor the following proposals:

            -- Requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers (87%)

            -- Improving enforcement of existing gun laws (81%)

            -- Raising the legal age to buy a gun to 21 (81%)

            -- Requiring mental health checks on gun buyers (80%)

            -- Allowing police to take guns from those considered a danger to themselves or others (80%)

            -- Requiring a 30-day waiting period for all gun purchases (77%)

            Another 6 in 10 favor banning assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons (61%). On Tuesday, Washington became the 10th state to institute a general ban on assault weapon sales.

            While nearly half would encourage more citizens to carry guns to defend against attackers (45%), a slim majority is opposed (52%).

            Fox News Poll: Voters favor gun limits over arming citizens to reduce gun violence

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who, you?

        The lawsuit, filed with the U.S. District Court in the Southern District of New York, alleges Korean automakers Kia America and Hyundai Motor America failed to keep up with other automakers by not adopting anti-theft immobilizer technology that makes sure vehicles can not be started without their keys.New York City sues Kia, Hyundai claiming some of its vehicles are too easy to steal, USA Today

        But the funny thing is their cars sold in EU don't have this problem because of pre-exisiting EU laws that required them to be safer in the first place.

        I certainly wouldn't blame the car makers exclusively - there are other problems such as the catch and release policies used with respect to offenders. There's not really any reason not to steal a car if that's what you and your gang need to to commit a hit and run armed robbery.

  3. cornetman Silver badge

    This company and this stalker guy do seem, on the comments stated, particularly scummy.

    I have to ask if about this though: "sites about erectile dysfunction, and other dubious outlets."

    Has "erectile dysfunction" become a euphemism for something weird to justify it as dubious?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It does indeed not appear to apply to upstanding citizens.

      In more ways than one..

  4. Christoph

    "We have never received a law enforcement report of misuse of our Anti-Theft Mode"

    We have never received a report of someone finding a device which we have made impossible to find.

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