back to article TSMC and pals chip in for €10B German fab

What does €5 billion of German taxpayer funding buy you? Certainly not domestic production of TSMC's leading-edge process tech. For TSMC's foray into European manufacturing, the foundry operator is sticking with mature process tech, namely its 28/22nm planar CMOS and 16nm/12nm FinFET nodes. The joint venture between TSMC, NXP …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    22nm planar ... isn't that what ST were doing at Crolles about 10 years ago?

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Probably. These chips don't need to be cutting edge: the car and appliance makers were really hammered by supply chain problems – many of their own making – during and after the pandemic. This is an attempt to mitigate such risks with the subsidies an attempt to make it look competitive.

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    At least Germany has water

    Contrary to some fab implementation decisions these past few months.

    Still, isn't it nice to be big enough to have countries willing to pay you for putting some money on the table ?

    If I were to decide to mount an office for myself in, say, Switzerland, I doubt very much that phoning up the Chamber of Commerce in Bern and asking for a million Swiss Francs would bring me anything but, at best, a hearty chuckle and best wishes.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: At least Germany has water

      This year, at least. The water table here, in North Germany, is still a couple of meters below what it should be. Last year, we had hardly any rain and 2 year ago, we had dead fish, because the water was too warm and the resevoirs were nearly empty...

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: At least Germany has water

      The recent announcements have all been in areas which have declared water scarcity. Ground water, like many resources, is significantly underpriced in Germnany. In fact, it's usually free. I expect this to change dramatically as the water table continues its long-term declined in many areas. Though it could be worse in many countries: Spanish agriculture could come to an abrupt halt when the aquifers run dry.

      1. big_D Silver badge

        Re: At least Germany has water

        Yes, we had a well in our garden, in north Germany. It was used by the previous house owner for nearly all water in the house. We removed the pipes and only used it for watering the garden, but the well ran dry in 2016 and we tried to dig a new one, we hit bedrock at about 6M and only about 20cm of water, too shallow to pump up to the surface.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: At least Germany has water

          You can see the attraction for off-grid use but it becomes a real "tragedy of the commons" / "beggar thy neighbour" as population density increases. I saw on WDR last year that they're going down to 15 m near Dormage on the Rhine!

          We don't have a well here but I think they were common when the house was built, but the drainpipes do run off into the garden. This means we need to do hardly any watering (but also be careful) of what we plant, and we're also doing "our bit" to prevent the sewers overflowing or backing up during a downpour. Meanwhile more and more front gardens are being paved, though it's technically now illegal, and people continue to plant things that require a lot of watering. It's not unusual to see both things practised on the same property.

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: At least Germany has water

      In subsidy wars it's usually who don't engage who are the winners.

      Switzerland does engage in some massive subsidies of its own, not least of agriculture.

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: At least Germany has water

        @Charlie Clark

        You are clearly thinking of Britain then, one has to assume.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: At least Germany has water

          Not really. The last 50 years or so have shown that subsidies rarely end up being good policies: they don't really protect jobs and the money tends to disappear. If your neighbours are engaging in such policies it's often best to buy from them (and help them ruin their budgets) and put some of the money that would have been wasted in subsidies into other schemes.

          It can make sense to support new developments, and social programmes are essential during industrial decline. But things like the current German plans, and even more the various recent US programmes are lunacy. And I say this as Keynesian.

  3. codejunky Silver badge

    Hmm

    Are there still people who think the UK should have done this too?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmm

      The UK has zero capability in this area, so why make this comment?

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Hmm

        >The UK has zero capability in this area

        On the contrary, in the area of handing out subsidies to industries who fail to deliver and then run away as soon as the subsidy runs out - it's a world leader

    2. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Hmm

      @codejunky

      No doubt, reading the comments.

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