Florida man accused of hoarding America's secrets faces fresh charges Federal prosecutors have expanded their criminal case against a famous Floridian and his loyal minions for allegedly mishandling national security secrets and not being forthright about the storage and handling of hundreds of classified documents. The celebrity defendant, a 77-year-old jack-of-all-trades, spent four long years …
Not to sound apocalyptic about this stuff or anything.
I know you brits had your fling with BoJo but I think he's winged his way into oblivion (other than various lordships, etc.)
The US colonies still have a solid remnant suffering from partial genetic brain damage and will vote for a trump or bojo or their dead heros like Strom Thurmond or Mitch McConnell (is he dead?)
The pustule-faced trump seems to be able to milk his low-lying partisans for every $5 they have. One would hope that they couldn't pay for necessities like toilet paper if they didn't have those $5. No worries - there's shrubberies outside.
...still have a solid remnant suffering from partial genetic brain damage...
That is an insult! We do not deal in partials and do not tolerate half jobs. Therefore, we are suffering from complete brain damage of any kind, not just as a remnant, but as a way of life. We do things Big. CBBD (Complete and Big Brain Damage) is our (genetic) trademark.
"Pfwah. I say! Hmm. BoJo's none too happy, inter alia, with that Truss gel ahead of me in the speaking circuit stakes. Pfmf. Caeteris paribus, why do the pointy-headed chappies want her to speak first? We're both blond, sure, and both economically illiterate, but my experience as an inveterate liar must count for something, what, when we get up on our hind legs and tell the millionaires what they want to hear. Deeply sus, as the kids say. Someone's kids."
I'm the same age as Boris, and while I didn't go to the posh school he attended that still taught Classics, I did learn Latin at a grammar school that had reduced the traditional Classical education down to a first-year Classical Foundations followed by two, four or six optional years of Latin. It did provide a handy background and I still find that world fascinating.
But as with any skill or set of knowledge, unless you use it regularly you forget it. I can barely string a useful sentence together in French now, let alone Latin. I can remember enough words to get the gist of Roman monumental inscriptions (which is a subject in itself, really) or to throw about phrases that are used commonly or less so in English (like in the silly spoof above), and I can recall a few lines from Virgil and Ovid if I scrunch my face up and wish upon a star. When I hear Boris spout something scholarly, I always think of the trouble he goes to tousle his hair and crumple his tie before stepping out into the limelight: I bet he puts the same deliberation into reciting a few choice quotes in front of the mirror before he leaves the dressing room.
elDog» The US colonies still have a solid remnant suffering from partial genetic brain damage and will vote for a trump or bojo or their dead heros like Strom Thurmond or Mitch McConnell (is he dead?)
We still have their genetic forebears in the form of the Loyalist community in the North of Ireland and look what a progressive, considerate lot they are. Just at the massive bonfires they build out of wooden palettes and adorned with Republic of Ireland flags, nationalist politicians and such like. Attention seeking or a simple reaffirmation of values?
I don't know whether this is true or not, but I heard on a podcast that the word 'hillbilly' comes from the term, 'King William's Men who live in the hills'. That's the Unionist community in the Northern Ireland — Ulster Scots proud & true.
They haven't gone away, you know.
Wow, 6 downvotes in a few hours.
Now, to those who have downvoted me: what did I write that was wrong, misleading or offensive?
I am open to being corrected on the origin of 'hilbilly'.
The people in the Applachians and much of The South *are* descended from the Ulster Scots.
President Andrew Jackson was one of their finest. I went to see the cottage of his parents in Northern Ireland last year.
>We still have their genetic forebears in the form of the Loyalist community in the North of Ireland
That was the flaw in the US colonies plan (also known as Ark-B)
We exported the religious nut-jobs, but only one type. If we had exported 2 different types they would have happily fought each other and left us alone - a plan which worked in every other ex-colony
BoJo was tame by comparison.
He didn't even do that bad a job as Mayor of London. His stint as PM was less than stellar, but following the whims of the electorate is his job after all...
Florida man is mind boggling. Even more so, his supporters. But such is the polarisation of politics under First-past-the-post.
The Grauniad for example posted an article this morning basically declaring war on Dishy's support for oil and gas.
Centrists (yes, we still exist!) are pragmatic enough to recognise that moving away from O&G requires O&G and money in the shorter term to enable the build of the alternatives.
The polarisation is a blocker to getting what we need to do done. And this requires a rethink of how we do politics, on both sides of the pond.
I don't recall such hand-wringing when Hillary Clinton "Bleach-Bit'ed" the email server kept in her kitchen to prevent it from being examined. Did you sound off as loudly when her husband got "serviced" in the Oval Office?
It's a shame the IT world is dominated by socialists who howl every time a conservative (anywhere in the world) does something they don't agree with. By all means, tell us how wonderful the doddering old fool in office now is doing. What an amazing example of leadership and wit he displays, guiding us toward the future. The one where we're subservient to China. With his cocaine-fueled moronic son shaking down countries for millions - including 10 percent "for the big guy."
Whatever. They'll lob charges at Trump to keep him from running for office. What none of you seem to realize is that he is much more powerful as an influencer than as a candidate. The candidate that gets his backing wins the election. Biden has no chance of winning anything but a room in a care home.
So just where were you when that Florida influencer suggested on national TV that you could treat Covid by injecting bleach. No wonder the rest of the world is concerned when a complete idiot like that could again be in charge of nuclear weapons. I just don't understand how 'merkins can be so dumb as to vote for that charlatan!
They say that the best comedy have bit of truth to them
You saw trump suggest to inject bleach
I saw trump warning us about human experimentation in an overpopulated world.
The comedy was golden, I enjoyed every minute.
If I told you that the british government poisoned terminally ill patients in hospitals with radioactive substances in order to figure out the upper safe limits of exposure, you wouldn’t believe me. You only believe what the talking heads on TV tell you,
So off you trot, in whatever world you inhabit, just remember, Big Brother is watching you
When all the people around you are programmed by the TV, you just have to laugh at them. I often think farm animals are stupid, but farm animals are no match for the most farmed animal on the planet, the dumb shit hooman
I think some of it has to do with his reality show. Which, frankly, is a real testament to the editors who managed to stitch together something coherent and compelling from the constant nonsense that guy puts out. But, the American public sees this show starring Trump where he's supposedly running this hugely successful business and at the end of every episode all the issues are wrapped up in a neat little bow. Most people don't realize just how heavily edited "reality" shows are. So, Trump seems like this competent leader who is always managing to fix the mistakes of his bumbling idiot staff, and people thought that's what he was really like. There was also the fact that he gave people permission to lean into their worst selves, racist, sexist, bigoted, xenophobic, etc,, but those are just the people who will show up for his rallies and stand for hours to listen to him ramble on about nothing. The tens of millions of other people who voted for him were the ones who were duped into thinking he's competent by skilled NBC editing crews.
Are suggesting facts not yet in evidence with this statement: "So just where were you when that Florida influencer suggested on national TV that you could treat Covid by injecting bleach." I listen to that video, that statement you suggest was not made. Associated with that video was a news story about the couple who apparently used bleach. I think that is where you are getting your information. Check to make sure I have it correct and get back to us.
Ah the what-aboutism strikes again. Nevermind that Trump is committing high crimes like espionage and insurrection, and conspiring to obstruct justice like a mob boss. Maybe you don't understand how the criminal system works, just because a moron gets a bunch of other morons to chant "lock her up" someone doesn't get locked up. Nor can a president or head of DOJ indict anyone. All the DOJ can do is recommend charges to a grand jury, and it is them and them alone who get to decide whether to indict someone. I'm sorry that a grand jury randomly chosen in the red state of Florida voted to indict your messiah, but he committed a bunch of crimes and deserves what's coming to him.
You keep defending your orange Jesus, we'll watch you cry in a corner mumbling "but Hillary" and "but Hunter" when the prison door slams behind Trump for the rest of his (short, no doubt, due to all that fast food) natural life!
"Maybe you don't understand how the criminal system works"
I'm pretty sure it works like this:
Democrat politician, donor, family or close friends - get off scott free
Anyone else - off to the gulag!!
SBF stole customer's money to donate to the dems, charges dropped.
Credible evidence from when it actually happened (not 30 years later) that sleepy Joe did inappropriate things to a woman, ignored.
Drugs found in the White House, nah, no idea mate!
Epstein 'epstein's' himself just at the perfect moment when the cameras happen to not be working....
The charges against SBF have not been dropped, only some were. The prosecution has requested his bail be revoked and he be put in jail pending trial because he has been violating the terms of his release while under "house arrest" at his parents' house.
And more whataboutism. Not defending Biden's touching of women's shoulders, but that hardly compares to the rapes that Trump has been credibly accused of.
Credibly accused of? No evidence, 30+ years after the fact, funded by a major dem donor... very credible. It was a civil trial, very low standards, he has not been convicted of anything.
The campaign funding charge has been dropped. Given enough time SBF will be out free.
The accusations against Biden are more than just touching someones shoulder. Remember we believe all* women.
* except ones we don't believe if it is inconvenient.
Ah the what-aboutism strikes again. Nevermind that Trump is committing high crimes like espionage and insurrection, and conspiring to obstruct justice like a mob boss. Maybe you don't understand how the criminal system works, just because a moron gets a bunch of other morons to chant "lock her up" someone doesn't get locked up.
It's easy to get confused. Someone who doesn't have the ability to declassify documents(ish) gets caught with a bunch of classified information on a personal mail server that somehow ends up in Ukraine doesn't get locked up. That was all just a Russia conspiracy. Someone who suggests other strange goings on between a US politician, their family and Ukraine gets indicted. The person who demanded an investigator be fired for looking into the company connected to that funny business gets promoted. Then a laptop appears, which was promptly declared 'Russian disinformation', and is promptly ignored by the DoJ and the media, until that story got too big to ignore. Then again, that one was in the news recently when a judge questioned a rather unique plea deal that had been negotiated by the defence and the DoJ, but in this case, it seems the DoJ is acting on behalf of the defence, not the prosecution.
As for "bunches of morons", there was also this-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gartner_(psychologist)#2017_mental_fitness_for_Office_of_President_Trump_petition
In the first months of 2017 Gartner collected the signatures of more than 25,000 mental health professionals and laypersons. The petition, "Mental Health Professionals Declare Trump is Mentally Ill And Must Be Removed", was sent to the Minority leader, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York. At the end of April 2017, Gartner sent the petition to Washington D.C., with more than 41,000 signatures, although he failed to disclose that it was not only of mental health professionals
...In 2017, Gartner founded Duty To Warn, an organization of mental health professionals and laypersons who consider it their duty to warn patients, clients and the community-at-large, when aware of potential danger.
Which I guess is sort of Democratic, but then informing & denouncing friends, family, neighbors is also a very socialist thing to do. The gerontocracy seems more keen on investigating Goldwater than White Water and is busily implementing a variety of 'red flag' legislation. Meanwhile, the same gerontocracy helps promote US popcorn when Biden, Feinstein, McConnell etc etc have their senior moments live on TV. These are the leaders of the free world.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, the attempts to lock down the Florida orange supply seem to occupy the minds of people who should be doing something useful, like fixing crime, inflation and all the problems that most 'ordinary Americans' are actually bothered about. At some point, they may secure a lock-down victory in a reversal of fortune from other lock-down policies that were knocked down by the courts for being, well, illegal and unconstitutional. The Democrats may lock up their political rival, because that's what you do in a free and fair Democracy, but they'll be left with the same problems and still no clue how to resolve them. Or, Trump may just choose to drop out, switch his support to another candidate and they lose bigley. Other world leaders look on in amazement, and carry on preparing their plans for a world where the US has faded into corruption and irrelevance.
You forgot Reagan and Trump. Or do those examples not fit your narrative?
Reagan's long dead. The narrative's very much shaped by the media though, so when Trump slipped, there were demands to utilise the 25th Amendment to remove him from office. Hence why I mentioned the Gartner petition " with more than 41,000 signatures, although he failed to disclose that it was not only of mental health professionals.". Here's something the Dbc prepared as an explainer-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55587801
You may have heard a lot of talk of "the 25th Amendment" in recent days, but what is it and what does it have to do with President Donald Trump.
Ready for an American history lesson? Ok let's go. Don't worry, we will keep things interesting.
It is basically a law that means President Trump COULD be removed as President, even before Joe Biden takes over in a few days time.
You may have heard a lot of talk because the media got very excited about the prospect of finally removing their arch nemesis. It didn't happen. More recent events should have raised similar questions about fitness for office, as well as potential snags with the 25th Amendment.. Like it mostly relying on the VP to invoke it. Pence didn't, Harris laughs off the suggestion. Unless she fancies a shot at the title herself I guess.
Or there's an impeachment that actually succeeded, for what that was worth-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal
Trump has denied all wrongdoing. He confirmed that he had withheld aid from Ukraine, while offering contradicting reasons for doing so.
Biden famously is on video explaining how he was going to get on a plane, and if Ukraine didn't fire the prosecutor investigating the company that gave his son and family a lot of money, Ukraine wouldn't get the $1bn in foreign aid. The prosecutor was fired, and Biden seemed very happy with the outcome. Fast forward, and Ukraine's had around $200bn more in foreign aid, and there are more questions about business interests the Bidens had in Ukraine. Or China. Or Hungary. Or why Biden's so anti-oil and gas in the US, yet the family seemed very keen to help foreign oil & gas interests break into the US market.
It's really rather bizarre the way TDS has taken hold in people around the world, even as the allegations of 'Russian interference' unravelled, and damaging evidence against the Democrats comes to light. For most of us, it's just an excuse to munch popcorn. Americans may get to vote for a change of control soon, and they get more of the same. Meanwhile, foreign leaders watch on, and wonder if the US is really a country they want to do business with, and look for alternative arrangements. But this is also a wider issue, ie the way the EU's been behaving. Trudeau recently gave Von de Leyden a 'Nobel Prize for Law' at a UN jolly. Trudeau's the guy who seized truckers bank accounts to try and stop a political process, Von der Leyden just seized Russian Central Bank and private Russian citizen's assets. Oddly, capital flight away from the EU's clutches continues..
Me: "You forgot Reagan and Trump. Or do those examples not fit your narrative?"
You: Reagans dead, something about Trump and then a lot of "But what about...."
Thanks mate, typical answer LOL
BTW, what is the Dbc? Did you mean BBC (as opposed to the also incorrect Bbc)?
This last question is entirely optional and not meant to detract from my original question, but I will just add that both Biden and Starmer come in for a kicking on UK news on a regular basis, including from Left leaning sources. ALL leaders are up for ridicule and criticism across the news spectrum. It helps if you use multiple sources rather than just those pandering to a single point of view though,
Thanks mate, typical answer LOL
Likewise. Dems demand the 25th Amendment be invoked on Trump, but they're fine with their own geriatrics. Dems impeach Trump because he asked for more info on what the Bidens were doing in Ukraine. Dems have spent the last decade ignoring that question, even though there's ample questions that need answers. Biden kept classified documents in his family's 'think tank' and garage, and this is fine. Trump kept some documents in his pool house, and must be prevented from participating in the democratic process at all costs.
Again, it's fine, if you think this is the image the leader(s) of the free world and champions of democracy, decency and famility values should present to the world.
BTW, what is the Dbc? Did you mean BBC (as opposed to the also incorrect Bbc)?
The Democrats broadcasting corporation. It's long been trying to break into the US market and escape being an obscure cable channel that very few subscribe to. The Bbc is just a bit of fun because the world's greatest and most trusted broadcaster can't get names like NATO or NASA correct.
Biden kept classified documents in his family's 'think tank' and garage, and this is fine. Trump kept some documents in his pool house, and must be prevented from participating in the democratic process at all costs.
In both cases, the papers were asked to be returned. Biden returned all documents, Trump lied and said he returned them. They asked a 2nd and 3rd time, and Trump kept lieing and saying "what documents". It took an FBI raid to finally remove the documents from Trump. Do you see how that is different?
In both cases, the papers were asked to be returned. Biden returned all documents, Trump lied and said he returned them.
Err.. no. For Biden, the papers were first 'found', and then some, or all may have been returned. No FBI raids, no TV cameras, no proper evidence collection, just a bunch of lawyers deciding what to give back. Because the process wasn't managed properly, there's no way of knowing if anything particularly embarrassing (or sensitive) was destroyed or moved elsewhere. But the same crimes may have been committed. That's usually simple possession of classfied information without authorisation, or failing to secure classified documents. Anyone who's handled this stuff knows that documents marked "Secret" shouldn't be left in boxes in your garage, or in a cupboard in a "think tank" bankrolled by the Chinese. They're also usually strict liability offences, ie possession means you're guilty.
It's a bit like being expected to be let off for robbing a bank because I gave the money back as the police closed in.
Trump's case hasn't got to court yet, so the details are mostly via leaks to the media and the Democrat lawyer's prosecution filings. Presidents do have some ability to declassify and retain stuff from their time in office. Documents were apparently stored in secure locations, so if Trump was authorised to possess those documents, and they were stored in accordance with the rules.. Has any offence been committed?
And why the selective prosecution? Senior Democrats have mishandled classified material, and escaped prosecution. Why does it seem that different rules apply depending on party affiliation, or rank? Aren't laws supposed to be applied equally in a well-functioning democracy?
There was no FBI "raid" because Biden requested the FBI come and do a thorough search to insure there weren't more documents. That's what you do when you retain documents by accident.
By contrast Trump DELIBERATELY retained documents even though he was told at the time it was illegal, was told later it was illegal, was asked multiple times they be returned, and finally was subpeonaed. And then he obstructed by ordering boxes moved around so when he had his lawyer conduct a search he wouldn't find them all!
The DOJ gave Trump far far more leeway than anyone else would have had in this situation. Normally if the FBI knows you have classified documents in your possession they won't ask nicely and subpeona, they will show up at your door with a search warrant. A step which took over two years in Trump's case! Calling that a "raid" is more MAGA moron apologizing for Trump's crimes. Trying to conflate it with the Biden or Pence situation is the height of lunacy.
Plus we know Trump was traveling with many of these boxes on his plane anytime he left Maralago, and having them brought inside with him into his other places like the New Jersey club where he was showing unauthorized people a Top Secret/NOFORN document about how the military would attack Iran if ordered to do so. Who knows what other stuff he was waving around, not to mention that moving all that stuff around and keeping it in insecure locations like a bathroom (with an outside window clearly visible in the photo) makes it quite likely that foreign agents riffled through and took photos of everything.
Trump deserves everything coming to him, and more.
"There was no FBI "raid" because Biden requested the FBI come and do a thorough search to insure there weren't more documents. That's what you do when you retain documents by accident."
By "accident"!!!! Spoken like another victim of a K-12 Compulsory Attendance Education.
Show the proof that Biden retained them deliberately. Reportedly they were a couple decades out of date, so unlikely to be of much value in 2022.
It is reported by multiple sources from inside his administration that Trump deliberately took documents when he left office, even though he was told by multiple people he could not keep any documents - whether classified or not - as everything remains the property of the government (national archives) after a president's term ends. All the stuff in all the presidential libraries is not owned by Bush, Obama, Clinton etc. but remains owned by the national archives and is made available on their authority.
Trump's claims "the presidential records act lets me take anything I want" is just a lie he tells knowing his dumbfuck supporters like you will believe it.
Show the proof that Biden retained them deliberately. Reportedly they were a couple decades out of date, so unlikely to be of much value in 2022.
With strict liability offences, it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter if they were accidently retained, or deliberately. It's much the same as with CP. Possession without any lawful authority is the offence. Mere mortals get prosecuted, others appear to be above the law. That isn't justice.
Then there's the IT angle (ish). There have been many cases of politicians mishandling classifed documents or just secrets and they've generally escaped punishment. That isn't great for national or general security if they don't take document and information security seriously. You also misremember what happened, ie the documents were 'found', then lawyers, then the FBI were invited to inspect/collect, but also restricted to where they could look. The age of the documents is also irrelevant. They remain classified until they're de-classified. Sometimes that may be after 50 or 100yrs, sometimes never. It wasn't up to Biden to decide, at least not until he became President and then gained the power to declassify.
Record retention also extends beyond Presidential documents, ie Clinton's retention of State Department records, or just having those on a private rather than an official server. Prior to becoming President, Biden may have had no lawful authority to retain any of the documents found. The dates of those records may also tie with investigations into the Biden's family business dealings and whether those were used to gain inside info on those deals.
Trump's stuff is heading to court, and the court will decide if anything illegal occurred, not the media.. Despite the best efforts of the Dems to spin and convict Trump without due process.
With strict liability offences, it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter if they were accidently retained, or deliberately
Crimes are ALWAYS treated as worse by prosecutors if they are done deliberately knowing they were illegal (with "malice and forethought") even though something you did in ignorance of the law or by accident is still a crime. A jury is less likely to convict someone who did something accidentally (or can't be proven to be done deliberately) with no harm shown.
Plus they only found a few documents at Biden's house, which he immediately surrendered. Trump had over 100 found AFTER he had grudgingly turned over some in response to previous demands, and it still isn't clear if they have all been returned since they decided they didn't have enough evidence to seek search warrants of everywhere Trump might have stashed documents like the New Jersey club, Trump Tower, or his airplane. There are conflicting reports over whether the government is still missing documents, perhaps that will be made public in trial and/or if he's convicted they will search every property he owns hoping to find any that are missing.
The classification thing is a red herring. Trump's claim "I declassified everything" is irrelevant (and incredibly dangerous) even if true. Because one, even declassified documents remain government property, but more important because there is a separate category certain documents (even if declassified by presidential order) fall under, "national defense information". And THAT is what Trump is charged with willfully retaining. It is unknown whether the handful of documents Biden had were national defense information or just classified, nor their level of classification. Clearly having a document that's merely "classified" (not even Secret or Top Secret, let alone SCI) is less serious. It is the level of classification, whether it is also national defense information, and whether the information it contains is still harmful if revealed (i.e. if it is something that was later declassified, or is something that is totally irrelevant in today's world like the name of a KGB double agent active in the 80s who has been dead for 15 years)
In both cases, the papers were asked to be returned. Biden returned all documents, Trump lied and said he returned them. They asked a 2nd and 3rd time, and Trump kept lieing and saying "what documents". It took an FBI raid to finally remove the documents from Trump. Do you see how that is different?
Of course he does, but this is a fine case of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.
Must. Suppress. Cognitive. Dissonance. Must. Suppress....
It's all just a show.
If the US government truly felt threatened, he'd be done taken out by some kind of Black ops team and made to look like an accident, suicide or reported missing and never found.
Short that it's all just a s*** show and a useful distraction to keep the public focused on the unchangeable past and not on what hijinks the government is up to today.
Speaking of distraction, have you noticed all the screwing around on the public dime through the excuse of UFO disclosure?
Even if there were aliens it wouldn't matter because if they have come they didn't save anybody us cuz we're still here.
Zero effect upon what anybody has to do in their lives to be all right because clearly the aliens aren't dealing with us.
So what a waste of time on a practical irrelency.
Interesting that's all this unconventional filibustering of congress's time during a period when the public's attention should be on the labor union strikes.
@DS999
"Nevermind that Trump is committing high crimes like espionage and insurrection"
Is he? I thought this was the claim yet to be proven. Kinda like the certainty of him working with Russia thanks to the Steele dossier. Your remember that damp squib? Or the 2 damp squib indictments. Remember this active investigation has already had leaked photo's of documents showing classified markings (isnt it illegal to leak this? Could even affect the ability to prosecute).
Of course it is inciting insurrection to tell people to protest peacefully. Just as a sealed building which can only be opened from the inside let people in and actively escorted people around. An unarmed woman was shot by the police and an investigation swiftly brushed under the carpet. Did they ever discover who placed pipe bombs? Or investigate the 'totally not FBI actors' who were caught out? So on so on. But at least the dem house put on a show kangaroo court for entertainment.
Like Trump or not the stinking desperate efforts to attack Trump should terrify any American. This can be done to anyone the state decides it doesnt like.
It was certainly proven that multiple people in Trump's orbit were working with Russia, they even convicted of it by a jury of their peers. And plenty of Russians were indicted for interference, but will of course never leave Russia so they won't be extradited to stand trial.
But this situation is quite different it wasn't just an investigation, there are charges filed which make public what Trump did. The obstruction of justice in hiding documents from a lawful subpeona is alone enough to put Trump deservedly in jail. So yeah we'll go with "innocent until proven guilty" for espionage and insurrection and wait to see what the jury finds. The thing is, your lot doesn't even believe he should stand trial and that it is all a witch hunt. The charging document for the Maralago case makes clear it is NOT a witch hunt, and Trump definitely committed crimes unless everyone (and the tapes) lied. I expect the charging document for the Jan 6th case when it arrives will do the same. As will the charging document from Georgia expected sometime this month.
Maybe if so far two and within a few weeks likely four grand juries all indicting Trump (including one in a Trump friendly county in Florida) you might accept this isn't a witch hunt? OK I know I'm being ridiculous. Of course you'll say it is a witch hunt. Even if he is found guilty you'll claim the jury was rigged and the judge was bought off!
"But this situation is quite different it wasn't just an investigation, there are charges filed which make public what Trump did."
"... what Trump did. Is assuming facts not yet in evidence. Second item in the Constitution is "establish Justice". Prove the assertions or there is no guilt. Filing charges is not proving the assertions, filing charges is making an allegation.
My guess is you were prepared for this moment by the K-12 Compulsory Attendance Education system in your state. Compulsory is the preeequist of brain washing. Your education is your choice therefore your responsibility. Those two characteristics, choice and responsibility, are the prerequists of Freedom. Compulsory is a word to describe people without choice.
" K-12 Compulsory Attendance Education system in your state. Compulsory is the preeequist of brain washing..."
The common education system is brainwashing.
Hmm, where do I usually hear that? Oh yes: are you also a creationist flat earther, by any chance?
PS
The word is "prerequisite" - your spell checker is your friend.
@DS999
"It was certainly proven that multiple people in Trump's orbit were working with Russia, they even convicted of it by a jury of their peers. And plenty of Russians were indicted for interference, but will of course never leave Russia so they won't be extradited to stand trial."
Are you going to try and claim the Steele report was true? You said he is committing high crimes and I pointed out that for all the desperate attempts to show that there doesnt seem to be facts to back the claim. Trump being so corrupt that a document had to be fabricated and against FBI procedure an investigation opened. You say other people may have been working with the Russians, but that is not Trump working with the Russians?
Compare that with the information (not fabricated dossier) coming out about the 'big guy' and his criminal son and where is the investigation?
"The obstruction of justice in hiding documents from a lawful subpeona is alone enough to put Trump deservedly in jail."
Obstruction? For the FBI raid they wanted the cameras off and no witnesses, lucky the cameras stayed on. And in the active investigation photo's of folders with classified markings (staged) are leaked to feed outrage. Is that not illegal?
"The thing is, your lot doesn't even believe he should stand trial and that it is all a witch hunt."
I have highlighted the important part you may wish to reflect on. Your tribal us and them, we do no wrong but they do perspective. To claim there is no witch hunt is to deny the obvious and blatant actions done in public. Imagine Trump did wrong and gets convicted for it, who is going to believe its true? A fake dossier, investigations that shouldnt have been started, security services interfering with social media platforms to promote lies, 2 desperate impeachments and continuous allegations even Alvin Bragg trying to create a case that he and others already deemed didnt exist, and so on.
The fact that there is a witch hunt creates a lot of noise of no substance. Remember the tax returns embarrassment for Rachel Maddow and many others that can be symbolised by the idiot on her knees screaming 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO'. That doesnt mean he shouldnt stand trial in a legitimate circumstance but so far we have seen so many desperate and power abusing attacks against him that maybe eventually there will be a luck of the draw jury to convict him regardless.
You even make it clear with your stupid claim of insurrection which has never added up with the facts. Like Trump or not should the state and legal system be used as a weapon like this? I say not. If that is 'my lot' and you are in the 'other lot' who thinks the state should be used that way then yes we are on different sides.
And Jared would not have got the $2 billion fund to manage from the Saudis without his father in law being president. Ivanka had her trademarks fast tracked in China after her father took office. Are you saying it should be illegal in all cases for people related to a powerful person to trade on that influence? Or only when democrats do it?
It is funny watching Trump cultists flail about trying to make Hunter Biden as big of a criminal as Trump. It is like comparing a small time crook who holds up a couple newspaper stands to Al Capone.
@DS999
To follow up on my question of where is the investigation. It looks like finally it is being taken seriously, including the part where democrats tried to impeach Trump for asking Ukraine to look into Bidens interference in Ukraine investigations-
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/ukraine-plays-key-role-in-biden-impeachment-inquiry-just-as-it-did-with-trump-5490393
Epoch Times? Ah, yes. That bastion of enlightened and unbiased journalism. The one that supports Trump because their Glorious Leader seems to think that Trump and the MAGA cult are going to kick the Communists out of China.
The Epoch Times is not even fit for fishwrap, IMO.
One wonders why the Trump supporter chose to re-open a month dead conversation with this kind of drivel.
The El Reg office has decided that only left wingers get a positive review, regarsless of how bad they are doing their job..
I don't care about Trump but I do care about how politicised El Reg has become.
It's like the old Twiiter user's have moved into El Regs San Fran office and started bullying everyone about what is acceptable...
What I truly don't like is how rabid many of the commentards have now become, it's no longer funny. It's almoat as if they don't realise that they are the tiniest pawns in a very large game of chess and that they will be the 1st to get sacrificed
It's almoat as if they don't realise that they are the tiniest pawns in a very large game of chess and that they will be the 1st to get sacrificed
Oh Khaptain my Khaptain,
Are you not, sadly, the very definition of a useful idiot? Such a cheerleader for Musk and Trump yet they will never even be aware that you even exist.
They're certainly not thinking of your wellbeing, all they're doing is stoking division by convincing you and others that the source of your problems is other human beings like you. Your idols have convinced you that to protect your freedom of speech you must use it to attack people like you, while your heros carry on enriching themselves.
El Reg is originally a British publication, still evident in style and humour. Personally I still think the move from .co.uk to.com was a mistake.
Despite UK's Overton window is to the right of most other European countries, even someone like Biden would probably still be classed as a centre-right, one nation tory type.
"El Reg is originally a British publication, still evident in style and humour. Personally I still think the move from .co.uk to.com was a mistake."
Yes, El Reg to Reg.com... It's been a gradual slide for many years, insidious in way actually. I remember pissing myself laughing with tears streaming down my cheeks at some of the humor of days gone by... not so much these days.
Disclaimer: I'm an American who lived in Western Europe for 25 years.
Are you quite sure it isn't you that has changed? As I've aged, I don't laugh as hard as a I used to. Parenting and long years of marriage and watching the friends and family take their leave of this mortal coil has corroded my funny bone a bit it seems. I think the only really tremendous laughs I get these days are at the hubris of mostly my kids (and the odd world leader). And that's only because witnessing such folly is one of the best vehicles for transporting me back to my own youth.
P.s. I'm only 45.
"The El Reg office has decided that only left wingers get a positive review, regarsless of how bad they are doing their job.."
Would you care to point to all the positive articles published by El Reg about Kim, Xi and Putin please? I seem to be missing them.
Meanwhile, here in the real world...
I seem to remember she-devil hillary getting an 11 hr grilling by congress, and having the FBI investigate (several times) if she'd committed a crime, as for her husband and his antics in the oval office, about all they could find was that he lied about it(as well as leaving suspicious stains on dresses), even then the republicans tried to impeach him.
Orange gibbon tried to interfere with the election by pressuring a foriegn state to dig up dirt on his opponent's son, then tried in to interfere with the peaceful handover of power by refusing to concede, by pressurising state election officials into changing the outcome of the election in their states, tried to get the vice president to throw out the election results and force a vote in the senate, and finally incite a mob to over run congress in an attempt to derail the handover of power.
All bar 2 republicans voted to clear him of any crime.
As for us IT types being socialists.... the reason I voted labour (socialist) last time round was because I knew what sort of shitstorm bozo johnston would be as prime minister(and wasn't proved wrong), not out of any socialist ideal (although universal health care paid from taxation is a jolly good idea and approved of by the majority of US citizens)
But more seriously, us IT types will cheerfully throw bricks at any political 'leader' as an election in our opinions merely changes the targets in the shooting gallery
She didn't continue to dig the hole deeper, and deeper, and deeper while flapping her gills incessantly. Had she done so and had there been any TRUTH to the accusations about her from the right wing, there would have been consequences. But when orange-faced children throw tantrums and cry incessantly instead of dealing with real world issues, all they do is make a complete and utter arse of themselves, regardless of what the "faithful" say.
NO ONE is above the law in the US or Canada, not even a Prime Minister or President. As it SHOULD be.
Let me guess, the same AC who said they hoped a recent article about Twitler would be civil, but then about half-way through the first sentence started lobbing insults at people.
You can spend as much time on your knees as you like, neither Twitler or Trump are going to take any notice of you and your efforts will go completely unrewarded. In fact, if someone put a button in front of either of them and explained that by pressing this button one of their gullible fans would be killed in a horrific and excruciatingly painful way, but by pressing it they could make one of the smaller lawsuits against them go away, neither of them would even hesitate in pressing it. They wouldn't lose a single bit of sleep over it, and probably wouldn't even remember doing it 10-minutes later. Not because of some kind of PTSD-type trauma where they block it out because it's so horrible, but because that's just how little they think of other people. It's like swatting a fly or stepping on an ant.
We could go through all the ways in which you're steady diet of right-wing propaganda has resulted in you being on the wrong side of history. From Trump not being able to offer up a single scrap of evidence to support his claim of election fraud, to the fact that the national archives <U>WAITED OVER A YEAR, AND HAD A SUBPONEA ISSUED</U> which Trump ignored, before the FBI went and raided his golf club. All he had to do was give back the documents he had no legal right to take from the White House and Jack Smith would still be back at The Hague and there'd be 40-fewer criminal counts Trump would be facing. He could have invited the FBI to send a team down to look through those boxes and take away anything that was classified if he was so busy cheating on the golf course. Instead he decided to fuck around and now he's finding out.
Yeah, we didn't wring our hands or clutch our pearls. The Clinton email server saga was widely reported here, in more detail than you can apparently remember. Notice how many of us are jumping up and down trying to elect Hillary for anything. Oh that's right. We aren't are we? You will notice that plenty of us wanted her to get more than a slap on the wrist for running an off books email server, and her staff to be held accountable as well. You can see we weren't happy when that didn't happen.
So you clearly have a highly selective memory, and yowling at us and calling the solid majority of us that are anti-socialist, (and anti- most other things involving governments, including varieties of socialist of fascist).
Trump is the latest in a long line of huckster morons who created a reputation of being coated in Teflon and though they were bulletproof. So instead of counting the times he has gotten off when he should have been tossed in jail as a warning his luck was running out, he doubled down, over and over, committing both large and petty crimes in plain view. Like the original Teflon Don his incompetence and hubris will drive him to put his own neck in the noose and keep pulling the lever until he proves himself wrong.
And he is great at being wrong. As are you, both by your arguments and your choice in heroes to worship. Your politics are akin to worshiping the devil while accusing a bunch of a atheists of worshiping a donkey. I don't like Biden, or Clinton. I don't like them and they aren't on my side. Neither is Trump, or the clown car of incompetent swindlers that has take over the GOP.
For the love of all that is holy, just get it through your head that some else being a POS isn't an excuse to prop up a bigger gas bag POS like Trump, or DeSantis, or anybody that was willing to look the other way while they tore down the nation. Yeah Biden sucks, and if he gets re-elected it will be on people like you blindly pouring out your time and your life savings to prop up a corrupt, incompetent, swindling idiot.
And nobody was talking about Elon's mail server. He's in late stake Howard Huges syndrome, and probably got raccoon brainworms and Bohemian Grove, but the only relation he has in the number of human bobbleheads that can't shut up about him
I don't recall this kind of crowing over a sitting vice president being caught red-handed taking bribes, or again when he's caught again as a sitting president, or again when that same sitting vice president took documents that were above his station, or again when that man as sitting president did the same thing, only stored in four or more locations with zero checks.
It's almost like they just don't like the other guy, but this guy, despite the mountain of evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, they don't really care about. Weird.
Maybe the west isn't founded on laws?
Because he's not a flight risk.
You might think that if he's not a flight risk then no one is a flight risk. He literally has a private jet, loyal minions, billions of USD in assets squirrelled away, and politician connections around the world including in the most extreme pariah states like North Korea.
But no. You'd be wrong. His bright orange glow and the ceaseless spew of self-love emerging from his gob serve as a kind of super surveillance tag so he can't step outside his front door without half of America hearing about it. Sadly.
All of these court cases are gonna get pushed back to next summer, if not further.
Meanwhile it’s entertaining to watch all the goofy Americans twist themselves into knots over this nonsense.
There’s a fantastic collection of Torrents (up to chapter 29 by now I think), “donald trump and the downfall of the republican party.” It consists of all the donald trump books people have been churning out the last several years.
Again: entertaining to collect all these free copies, but you certainly wouldn’t waste your time and effort to actually read any of them…
DV BC: I am one of those pretzeled Americans of which you speak. And I do have my moments of being worked up because: essentially all of the very worst of what America has been (and, granted, very much still is) is so diligently manifested by a single individual. And we quite democratically brought that particular manifestation of God's creation into a position of such acrimonious discord with the actual progressive arc of our nation, and made ourselves just look so damn foolish in the process... Well, it hurts ones pride, you know?
"An IT director unfamiliar with basic computer operation? Say it ain't so!"
Why should it be so?
IT directors fall into 3 categories:
- Those who have a purely administrative background - maybe a degree in music or whatever - rather than IT.
- Those who have operational IT experience but with obsolete systems.
- Those with operational experience of current systems.
It's not easy to say which category is the most dangerous.
《> The IT director responded that he did not know how to [delete something]
An IT director unfamiliar with basic computer operation? Say it ain't so!》
I would say said IT director didn't fancy a long stretch for destroying evidence.
Its always the "little people" that do the time.
Old bumface is more like to be interred long before he would be incarcerated.
From what I saw his exact words were reportedly that he didn't have the "rights" to do something. So it may be that he doesn't have administrative rights on the server in question.
Though it is quite possible he does, but he used the claim he lacked rights as an excuse to avoid doing something he was worried might get him into trouble. Let someone else be indicted for conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice. If so, he's much smarter than anyone else working for Trump.
It is amazing Trump finds so many people not only willing to help him commit crimes, but stay loyal even under legal pressure and facing years of jail time. Just like some CEOs can recognize talent I guess Trump has a gift for recognizing corruptibility.
"I guess Trump has a gift for recognizing corruptibility"
His minions are probably a self-selecting crowd, slow to disabuse themselves of the reality of what's in front of them. They were probably last of their age group to realise there was no Santa Clause.
From what I saw his exact words were reportedly that he didn't have the "rights" to do something. So it may be that he doesn't have administrative rights on the server in question.
If he's a competent IT Director, then he shouldn't (routinely*) have the administrative rights on the systems he is responsible for. His job is not systems administrator - he has people to do systems administration for him who actually need those privileges to do their job, whereas he doesn't.
I've been in situations where people have offered me privileged access to things - both to make their life easier, and mine; and I have usually refused, as I don't want to be on the list of suspects if (when) things go wrong. Call it arse-covering or prudence, but it is very nice to be able to say "I don't have access, and I've never had it."
*He might have access to a privileged account and password via a sealed envelope in a safe somewhere to guard against an admin being run over by a bus, or being otherwise unavailable, but access to the safe would be monitored and logged, and not expected to be used in anything other than exceptional circumstances. From an audit perspective, especially in smaller companies, preventing Company Officers from riding roughshod over proper security precautions and procedures is always a fun game. C-suite people often don't like being told they can't have 'control'. As an admin, if someone senior asks you to do something irregular, get it in writing, or if you can't, as the very least, make a note of it in a personal diary that you carry with you at all times - don't do it on company property (PCs, mobile phones) that you would not have access to if your employment is terminated. Contemporary notes can have great evidential value.
Add the date and time to your note - both the date and time of the request and of the note.
Best to have a procedure in place that instructions have to be written "for the log" so that asking for written instructions for something dodgy can't become confrontational quite so easily.
If he's a competent IT Director, then he shouldn't (routinely*) have the administrative rights on the systems he is responsible for. His job is not systems administrator - he has people to do systems administration for him who actually need those privileges to do their job, whereas he doesn't
Mar-A-Lago isn't a big place, there's no way they have enough work for an "IT Director" who is solely a manager and doesn't also do sysadmin tasks. He's probably the team lead of a total of 2 or 3 IT guys so he gets the title inflation job of "IT Director".
Even in places that have an IT Director that is really that title and doesn't touch systems, a well run organization has administrator passwords in software escrow or locked in a safe, so if there is something important that needs to be done ASAP it can get done. And note the "Director" didn't say "I don't know how to do that" so he it can be reasonably assumed he could have done it if he had the password and if he was willing. But "the boss wants the server deleted" would have to sound pretty ominous. What possible legitimate reason could there be for a resort owner to want a server hosting CCTV video "deleted"?
Whether by design or by accident, the title inflated IT Director avoided a huge mess by begging off that dirty work!
Actual and genuine question. What is it with orange jumpsuits? Is that something specific to federal prisons or something? I've seen plenty of US tv both fictional and documentary that shows prisoners dressed in all sorts of different ways, depending on what prisons they are in. The apparently ubiquitous "orange jumpsuit" actually seems to be quite rare in reality. Has this just become a trope due to some TV show that happened to be popular for a while?
Legend has it it's so escapees are more visible in the wild. Can't say whether or not that's applied and true, as I've never been banged up in the land of freedom. Seems sensible, since the classic fancy dress con is wearing stripes, and every escapee heads to a party without changing! I think they have other fashion options, such as clinician-like scrubs.
Anyone want to confirm, as their sister's boyfriend's uncle's mate was dodgy? :)
This is the best bit of the story. Presumably the employee will be asked about this in court.
"Well, when I put the big hose in the pool, I accidentally put the other end in the server room instead of into the outdoor drain. So easy to confuse the two, they look almost exactly the same!".
Trump must have been furious when he heard what happened, and sacked the fool responsible immediately. Except that it seems like he didn't. Funny for a guy who hires "only the best people".
I would presume the pool was fresh water and the flood relatively quickly discovered, so potentially little damage done to storage media; so whilst the servers may well be damaged, a data recovery expert should be able to recover much of the data.
I'm not sure if preserving (potential) evidence requires someone to take positive steps to prevent it being destroyed, or simply not to delete it 'in the normal course of business'.
There's a discussion about evidence preservation here: Kramer Levin.com: Reasonable Anticipation of Litigation Under FRCP 37(e): Triggers and Limits
Under common law and as expressly referenced in amended Federal Rule of Civil Procedure (FRCP) 37(e), a party must preserve documents and electronically stored information (ESI) when it reasonably anticipates litigation.
and here: FindLaw.com: eDiscovery Preservation: Legal Requirements
The duty to preserve evidence to be used in a contested matter, such as litigation or governmental investigation, certainly pre-dates electronically stored information and electronic discovery.
The courts take a dim view of deleting (potential) evidence, and I would suspect are too pleased with what might be argued as negligence in allowing the only copy of data to come to harm. No-one has mentioned back-ups. The date when the people responsible for the storage of the data became aware that it was potential evidence, and the date of the flooding could well be relevant.
I've worked in places where the legal department has sent round a message telling us in no uncertain terms that we must not send any data for destruction until reviewed by a lawyer as a consequence of the discovery process in litigation, which is fine when postponing clearing out 10-year old archives for another month or so, but not so fine when you can't overwrite old backup tapes for regular re-use.
and the flood relatively quickly discovered
That's a bad assumption if the intent was to CAUSE a flood.
Supposedly there were storage bins in the area that was flooded that were full of water, so this wasn't a trickle that got the floor wet and tripped a GFCI breaker, but perhaps an entire swimming pool's worth of water released into an underground area of a building.
"I would presume the pool was fresh water"
Chlorinated "fresh" water. Along with any other "pollutants" introduced by the pool users and, assuming it;s an outdoor pool, any other debris blown in, dead insects etc. So, yeah "fresh" as opposed to "salt" or "sea" water, but not pure fresh ;-)
Flooding the server room sounds like the sort of incompetent action Trump would order. Discs are usually in airtight cases, and only the external electronics are exposed, so the data is probably accessible.
Trump probably thought he could flush the data the same as he did paper documents in the White House.
Is it actually an air hole or a vent to a membrane such that membrane expands and contracts inside the drive to allow the air pressure to equalise? I thought they were supposed to be dust proof. Or is it a hole with a filter? I must admit I never looked that closely, it just looks like a stick on bit of latex or similar from the inside.
EDIT: Never mind, as you were. It's a filter, not a membrane or diaphragm. DDG to the rescue :-)
Trump must have been furious when he heard what happened, and sacked the fool responsible immediately. Except that it seems like he didn't. Funny for a guy who hires "only the best people".
...and loves to (publicly) fire people.
Title elided because something about it being too long?
@Mitoo Bobsworth
"Is this stupid game still going on?"
What does the democrats or established rulers have to oppose Trump? Ignore the republicans for the moment, what do the dems have? A sitting president who is a vast liability at best especially as his son is easily trashing the Biden reputation. So if not Biden who could the dems run? Anyone? Is there a single candidate anyone would want to vote for?
But the next best thing for the established rulers is a republican candidate, except none of them have the pull to win against Trump. He is vastly ahead in the polls and after many attempts to stop him running through legal means they can only go after his reputation. Except as with the impeachments there is a requirement to demonstrate he did wrong and sufficient enough for prosecution. As with the Alvin Bragg show, they have nothing so can only try to stretch Trumps resources and keep slinging mud.
I am not sure Trump would be allowed to win. Can you imagine the potential clean out of the corruption? The serious and vengeful removal of those who dedicated so much time and effort to attack Trump. But the weaponised state should not be cheered on by Americans, they should all be seriously concerned by this. Even if they hate Trump the fact that such blatant and obvious vilifying and attacks by the state could be used against any citizen should be scary as hell.
"I can never forget that one of the most gifted, best educated nations in the world, of its own free will, surrendered its fate into the hands of a maniac."--Eric Hoffer
--------------------------------------------
"Far more crucial than what you know or what you do not know is what you do not want to know."
So Trump wanted a server wiping and couldnt have it done? Trump was unable to get the server wiped when Hillary could. I have an amount of disbelief that Hillary could achieve that yet Trump couldnt.
Has the reg been keeping up with a certain drug and firearm felon who has admitted to taking money from the Chinese (linked to the Chinese government)? Something directly refused by the current president back when debating with Trump? I hear the FBI are refusing to release any documents concerning the cocaine investigation they quickly concluded. Yet the J6 investigations are ongoing.
But yes you keep crying that Trump not only was president but is likely to be the Republican candidate as the clear front runner.
Has the reg been keeping up with a certain drug and firearm felon who has admitted to taking money from the Chinese
Are you implying Trump is a drug addict?! Evidence...?
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