back to article BT and OneWeb deliver internet to rock in Bristol Channel – population 28

BT and satellite operator OneWeb are now providing internet access to the island of Lundy as part of the UK government's program to connect up hard-to-reach areas of the country, but the pair are strangely reluctant to discuss costs. Westminster announced a trial last year to look into how satellite connectivity might be used …

  1. babydave

    PTP

    Surely an on land PTP carrier grade microwave link would have been more appropriate? Way more capacity and with lower latency too.

    1. Howard Sway Silver badge

      Re: PTP

      12 miles of undersea cable is hardly going to break the bank either.

      1. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: PTP

        Too much chance of it being snagged by a wayward boat anchor?

        1. Lurko

          Re: PTP

          Undoubtedly true that there's options for Lundy that would be cheaper in the long term, but this is not about permanent connectivity, just trialing one of a number of options. As such the cost is not really a big deal - for 28 people it is going to be bonkers-per-head amount whatever they do.

          Cabling is the obvious permanent option, since it's only a few km from the landing points for about 8 submarine cables (plus any secret ones we don't know about). And it's conveniently situated so that GCHQ's summer holiday camp at Bude can keep a careful eye on the Lundy separatists. Anchors won't be any more of a hazard than for those other eight cables.

          1. Martin an gof Silver badge

            Re: PTP

            Is Lundy connected to the electricity grid? If they can do it for power, they can certainly do it for data...

            M.

            1. Commswonk

              Re: PTP

              Is Lundy connected to the electricity grid?

              No; see a later post.

          2. Handlebars

            Re: PTP

            I came third in the gchq knobbly knees contest last summer. Best thing was, I didn't even know I had entered the competition.

    2. Lazlo Woodbine

      Re: PTP

      Cam here to say this.

      15 years ago I was selling Point to Point microwave links that could squirt upwards of 40mbps to a reciever 12 miles away, and I'm pretty sure technology has increased the reliability of higher throughputs.

      At any rate, it'll be cheaper than using satellites...

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: PTP

        At any rate, it'll be cheaper than using satellites...

        Maybe not. The satellites are already there as part of the wider system, so the only additional cost would be the base station on the island. That's probably cheaper than two microwave stations (land + island), with the associated land-side cabling & wayleaves.

      2. Commswonk

        Re: PTP

        15 years ago I was selling Point to Point microwave links that could squirt upwards of 40mbps to a receiver 12 miles away, and I'm pretty sure technology has increased the reliability of higher throughputs.

        A couple of points... I take it that 12 miles was over land, not over tidal water. SHF links over tidal water are another ball - game entirely, with height diversity reception being a common solution. In addition, making a radio system with sufficient bandwidth to carry broadband in any meaningful way is not entirely easy.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: PTP

          Well, for 28 people and line of sight to land, they could share a decent Wifi 6 router, connected to a suitable high gain antenna back to a similar setup on land. The Tegola project is reportedly already doing this for distances up to 19km across tidal waters according to Wikepedia.

        2. Lazlo Woodbine

          Re: PTP

          Microwave links can easily carry full duplex 1Gbps over 20km, and unless sea spray is significantly worse than rain, the fade from droplets is about 10-20%

          1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

            Re: PTP

            I think the bigger concern is fading caused by destructive interference between the direct signal and the variable-delay reflection from the rising and falling water surface. That used to have a big effect on my UHF TV reception when the best signal was from across a 15 mile sea path.

            1. Commswonk
              Facepalm

              Re: PTP

              I think the bigger concern is fading caused by destructive interference between the direct signal and the variable-delay reflection from the rising and falling water surface.

              Exactly so; I am relieved that at least someone else here is aware of the problems when planning an SHF radio link over tidal waters.

              When Airwave was being put together someone decided that it would be a good idea to have a section of the GBN (Ground Based Network) over tidal waters between <redacted> and <redacted>. This knocked out radio communications at one or two comms - critical sites on a regular basis. It was quite some time before Airwave owned up to their design error and reorganised that bit of the overall route to be, er, on the ground.

  2. Unoriginal Handle

    I spent 6 days on Lundy last year. 4G coverage was spotty, and only really reliable if you stood in the same place just near the pub, or at the top of the old lighthouse.

    Getting to the Internet from anywhere other than near the main "settlement" was a hit and miss affair, more so at the bottom of Devil's Slide or similar on the western side of the island but by then I had other things on my mind!

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Pint

      > I spent 6 days on Lundy last year. 4G coverage was spotty, and only really reliable if you stood in the same place just near the pub

      Well, that was your excuse anyway ;)

      Cheers -->

  3. Wanda Lust

    Achieved the objective, coverage about the coverage.

    As others have noted, there are alternative means to achieve the connectivity. Perhaps, this will spur alternatives to jump in.

    However, I do hope BT (other ISPs are available) and OneWeb develop a more affordable solution to X’ey boi.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      X'ey Bois offering (ignoring hardware cost) is almost identical to the combined price that I pay BT & my current ISP, it's only questions over connection reliability and about the NAT that they use that have prevented us from switching away from our land based (fastest available without spending 5 figures) 16mb down 1mb up connection

      1. John Robson Silver badge

        Connection reliability is pretty good.

        What's the specific issue with the NAT?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          After 20 years I'm used to having a block of (can you really call 6 a block) fixed ip addresses that various things can sit on.

          1. John Robson Silver badge

            Yes you can call 6 a block...

            Do you actually need public IPv4 addresses directly, or can you run a VPS for those public facing things (potentially with a proxy or a port forward over a VPN if you need the server itself to be at home).

  4. xyz Silver badge

    Not really plug'n'play is it?

    BT/oneweb thing: Wait 'til BT et al show up with their industrial strength gear mountain, then wait until they install said gear, order online(?), get central internet and be locked in.

    Fuck knows mbps down and unknown price.

    SkyDSL: Order online, get box, assemble assorted metal things, spend a couple of hours dangling off the roof listening for "tones", fight with sky accounts nazis.

    40mbps down. 55 euros a month

    Starlink: Order online, get box, connect part A to part B. Plug in, wait a mo, get internet.

    324mbps down 65 euros a month.

    Mmmmmmm.....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not really plug'n'play is it?

      Elon, is that you?

    2. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Not really plug'n'play is it?

      On the basis that my parents managed to get starlink installed and running inside half an hour - I have to agree with you in terms of simplicity of setup.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From what some people I know who used to regularly stay on Lundy then one of its attractions is that there was no connectivity so you could get away from everything for a few days.

    1. Commswonk

      From what some people I know who used to regularly stay on Lundy then one of its attractions is that there was no connectivity so you could get away from everything for a few days.

      "No connectivity" includes no mains supply 0000 - 0630 (approximately) every day 'cos the generators are turned off between those hours, assuming that Wikipedia is to be believed.

    2. ravenviz Silver badge

      You can switch off your devices anywhere you like, you don’t need a special trip to Lundy!

  6. Flak

    Hard to reach rural connectivity options

    Had a look at available options a few years ago and a mix of point to point and point to multipoint radio could 'light up' an island without much trouble, with little disruption to nature, predictable costs and decent performance (speeds and latency).

    If mobile operators invest - great.

    LEO satellite connectivity has come in and now provides a real option that does NOT require any further distribution on the ground. The cynic in me sees BT just cementing its position by making OneWeb part of its delivery chain.

    Let users have their own terminals, their own contracts rather than having BT add its 'service' layer please...

    Fibre should still be the first choice where economically feasible, but not at any cost (do you hear me, Scottish Government R100 project???)

  7. Michael Strorm Silver badge

    BT to deliver Fastnet to Lundy

    The post is required, and must contain letters.

  8. Ball boy Silver badge
    Pint

    When will they reach Rockall?

    For those of us with long enough beards to remember The Rockall Times then you'll know why I'm asking!

    And yes, I still have the t-shirt. A bit faded but you can still make out the 'There's f**k all on Rockall' caption.

    While I'm about it, bring back Dabsy. Oh, and gratuitous references to Paris. :)

    1. Martin-73 Silver badge

      Re: When will they reach Rockall?

      I still giggle about the spitting image episode where (then) Prince Charles was made king of Rockall to see how he did.

      He came back a few days later covered in seagull crap. The gulls had had a revolution.

  9. fred_flinstone

    What about Starlink?

    I know the chief twit has been upsetting most of the world, but why not use Starlink?

    Having used it myself in rural Wales (until BT hooked me up to fttp), the download speed is better than 75mb and it is cheap enough they could likely have provided every house with a unit for less than the BT option.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Re: What about Starlink?

      Why not Starlink?

      Because BoJo's gang spaffed an unbelievable amount of money on buying OneWeb to further brexit dreams delusions of becoming a global space race player and they needed to do something, anything, to try and make that appear a wise investment.

      1. Spazturtle Silver badge

        Re: What about Starlink?

        "an unbelievable amount of money"

        $500m is not really a huge amount when it comes to government spending, and the government's stake is currently valued at $600m.

  10. tiggity Silver badge

    surely it's a job for this RFC

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1149

    Ideally using puffins (after all, that's the bird that gave Lundy its name) - though might be problematic outside of the breeding season whey they disappear off into the Atlantic somewhere.

  11. Bebu
    Childcatcher

    Rockall

    Outside of T H White's "The Master" this is the first reference to Rockall I have encountered.

    Had to laugh at Eff'all on Rockall and would also loved to have seen the "Spitting Image" episode.

    I suppose hrh actually is the king of Rockall now unless they seagulls have managed to secede.

    I can see Q. Camilla as la Grande Seigneuse (jure uxoris) of Rockall and a multitude of seabirds.

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