First of Tesla's 'bulletproof' Cybertrucks clunks off production line It's been almost four years since we were able to write "Absolutely smashing: Musk shows off Tesla's 'bulletproof' low-poly pickup, hilarity ensues". The world was a simpler place. COVID hadn't happened, Russia was mostly keeping to itself, and the Tesla CEO hadn't blown $44 billion on buying Twitter. So a car crash (pun …
Yeah, the so ugly it's cute response won't work on some people, but the reality is, these thinks are iconic of an age, and will be sitting next to a Tucker and a car show 50 or 100 years from now with an explanatory placard of Musks folley.
As for the armored glass test, it's not great statesmanship, but that's how armored glass works. It's not that it is impossible to crack, it just stops whatever broke it from ending up in the front seat with you.
For an added bonus though, the rioters will know exactly what sized metal ball to bring to the next protest at twitter HQ.
"As for the armored glass test, it's not great statesmanship, but that's how armored glass works."
A good showman would have rehearsed their presentation first. Why would they think that it was a good idea to throw a large metal ball at a pane of glass and not get the results they did? The rehearsal would need to be far enough in advance to leave time for repairs if something went wrong. It's a poor idea anyway. If you are a VIP that needs bulletproof glass, you get that, but if you don't need it, it's an impediment to emergency responders being able to extract you from your burning car when the electric door latches aren't working. Even if the car isn't on fire, an accident can interrupt the electrical system and make the doors inoperable so you can't be taken out of the car and rushed to hospital very quickly.
"ISTR they did rehearse their presentation."
Sounds plausible. I think anyone who runs demos quickly learns to walk through the script at least once before going live. The worse the product, the more walk thrus.
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As for who is going to buy these things. Tesla fan bois of course. And if they are actually bullet proof, the Mexican drug cartels might take a few hundred. Denizens of Chicago might want one, but I expect there might be an affordability problem. Maybe the Ukrainian military? Can you mount a machine gun in the back? How are they at clearing landmines?
"Maybe the Ukrainian military? Can you mount a machine gun in the back? How are they at clearing landmines?"
An EV aimed at fleet service might be a great money spinner for some company. If Tesla were to come out with a POS, 4-door sedan with no design aesthetic, governments everywhere would order them by the gross as long as they could get them with those small chrome disc hubcaps and a physical key that's the same for all of them. The great thing is they shouldn't come with a glass roof, four place electric seats, a 27 speaker audio system or digital servo assisted heated wing mirrors that automatically fail to unfold when you need them. Hard plastic and vinyl seat covering is preferred and there should be plenty of space to apply stickers telling the driver to obey all laws, buckle up, not drink drive, etc. Available in two colors, black and white. Run the factory 24/7 building the exact same product with no configurable options and Bob's your uncle. The electronic underpinnings of modern EV's with all of the spyware is ideal for fleet management. A car that's always connected could have an access system based on an employee ID so anybody authorized to check out a car only needs to hold their ID to a spot on any car they're authorized to take and it will bow down to them with all of the accounting being done in the background. Cars can be programmed to always stay within the posted speed limits and G rates logged to detect unexplained aggressive driving. Heck, they can even build sensors in the steering wheel to monitor blood sugar, alcohol and drugs in the driver's perspiration and lock them out if they are sweating pure ethanol, cocaine or they have very low blood sugar.
Fleet service vehicles are sometimes good basic cars and cheap to get second hand. The old Ford Crown Vics are nearly bullet proof and super easy to get parts to repair them. They are just ugly even if they do have a good ride quality.
These are the last vehicles any military wants. It would actually help Ukraine far more to give these to the Russians.
Firstly these are top heavy, do you know what happens to top heavy cars when they need to do anything but drive on perfectly flat and straight roads ? I would not want to be in one of these if it had to go up and down or turn and so on. Just imagine how easily it would tip over with a heavy gun on the back ?
Secondly do you know what happens when you shoot a battery ? Batteries are quite a large target compared to a tank of petrol, and they are a nightmare that makes a petrol fire look like childs play, just ask your local fire department.
Thirdly a war zone is the last place you want to drive something untested, you want proven tested dependable quality vhicles and equipment, not rubbish which is more bullshit and hot air than anything else.
I'm dealing with people who train chauffeurs who have to drive bulletproof cars. I would not go near this contraption until it has a formal rating, and even then it's a pointless idea as armour is only part of the story. Oh no, wait, Musk's AI is, of course, going to automagically recognise dangerous situations so it won't go into a killbox or will ram its way through a road barrier. That is, after they have sorted out Fantastically Sh*t Driving, of course.
In a serious situation, this thing is history as soon as the battery runs out which is quick as it lugs around a lot of extra weight. Lugging armour around 100% of the time without the basics taken care of makes me thing of that other utter failure, the Tesla truck as it appears Tesla engineering seems to have some sort allergic reaction when it comes to consulting people who deal with real world issues (i.e. outside the Musk scent area). On the plus side, with that amount of weight I guess you won't feel much when you run over a child.
But hey, I guess it'll sell to morons fans..
"Turns out, the windows can handle one impact from that metal ball with no visible damage, but a second impact will cause cracking."
Ok, why not make a video of that and show it at the presentation? Remember when Bill Gates was showing something beta at a presentation and got the Blue Screen of Death? I'm laughing pretty good over that as I type.
it's an impediment to emergency responders being able to extract you from your burning car when the electric door latches aren't working.
Ah, the Tesla travelling crematorium - which rather negates the need for a Tesla hearse...
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/yes-tesla-model-s-hearse
"Yeah, the so ugly it's cute response won't work on some people, but the reality is, these thinks are iconic of an age, and will be sitting next to a Tucker and a car show 50 or 100 years from now with an explanatory placard of Musks folley."
Early 21st Century version of the DeLorean? Can it reach precisely 88mph and leave flaming tyre tracks?
Icon, for Doc Brown --------------->
Yeah, the so ugly it's cute response won't work on some people, but the reality is, these thinks are iconic of an age, and will be sitting next to a Tucker and a car show 50 or 100 years from now with an explanatory placard of Musks folley.
And the DeLorean, at least that thing looked good for its time. When I see the Tesla truck, I think of the Pontiac Aztek, an OK car with a WTF profile.
"Musk cited component shortages as the reason why production had been pushed back"
From the articles that have been posted, it seems it was more due to serious issues with the design rather than a shortage of parts. I don't think I've ever had an issue with getting parts to bodge together a prototype of something. Production quantities, yes. I've used woefully underpowered processors to develop something by turning certain things off in software that I didn't need running while I debug something else I want to work at real speeds.
"His best response would've been "Still secure, hit it again!""
Or, That car jacker isn't getting your car no matter how big a brick they can throw.
That just reminded me of Ronald Reagan at a speech after he'd been shot and a balloon was popped rather loudly, he looked up and said, "Missed". I laughed so hard I couldn't breath. He may have been old, but he was still sharp as a razor.
When Musk showed off this contraption I actually thought it to be a joke and that he'd unveil the "real" Cybertruck as a much more conventional looking vehicle. I was dead wrong.
We'll see how many Tesla sells after the fanboys have purchased theirs. Remember that the New Beetle was initially enthusiastically received, but bombed after the Beetle fans purchased theirs and found it to be not nearly as quirky and fun as the original. They ceased production about a decade ago.
The newer vehicle masquerading as a Mini is far from mini, more maxi.
Yeah, they really seem to have padded it out for the reboot.
Watching the two guys in a shed work on one of the old ones drives home how truly small the real deal is.
The under-bonnet area barely fits your trained hamster's wheel, but the reboot can practically fit the original inside the boot...
Reboot of Mini - huge success
Despite the fact that it has *nothing* in common with the old Mini other than the name..
Reboot of Fiat 500 - huge success
Now that it a true reboot - a proper Fiat 500 but with modern systems and bodywork. Still has the quirky Fiat "will it work or won't it" attribute :-)
"Cherry picking the end as somehow indicative of product success makes no sense,"
PT Crusier, Prowler, etc are all further examples. They are designs that are way off of the mainstream and don't last long before the makers need to end production and allocate the factory to a model that will need 3 shifts and keep the very expensive production machinery going full time.
> Over the years, starting with the first Beetle production run, VW sold over 18 million Beetles.
You've completely missed the point. They weren't disparaging the entire Beetle line by association with the New Beetle- they were *specifically* referring to the New Beetle. That sold effectively as an "image" car which sold on the basis of its alleged similarity to the original.
Since the original hadn't been sold in Western Europe and North America and other (then-)major markets for decades by then, the New Beetle was effectively a revival (especially as- unlike the original- it was an expensive "image" car aimed more at those markets).
Point is, the New Beetle- effectively a modern car tarted up to superficially resemble the original (*)- might have gained some interest at first on the basis of the nostalgia gimmick, but that soon wore off.
(*) And it only does so if you haven't actually seen an original Beetle for decades (which, of course, they could rely on in the markets the New Beetle was aimed at). Compare them next to each other and you'll notice they're nowhere near the same. Especially side-on; the New Beetle is almost symmetrical whereas the original certainly isn't. (The 2010s Beetle was slightly better in this respect, and a much better looking car, but it was still almost as much Porsche as actual Beetle).
The original beetle did well primarily because of the whole cost thing. Cheap to own, cheap to drive, and easy to service, if a bit bare function. The New Beetle (TM) was expensive to buy and run, plus usually paired with crap drivetrains - though the 5 cyl and diesel were pretty good for VW. AND it was difficult plus expensive to service.
Just drop the engine first. It only takes a minute.
Mind you that puts me in mind of the Haynes instructions for gapping an Austin Metro's distributor.
"First remove the radiator as described in chapter...".
Actually all you needed was to grab a passing street urchin and ask them to remove the cap.
Reminds me of the Haynes instructions to replace the alternator in the Civic I had many years ago, which also specified removing a number of other parts. Turns out you can unbolt the alternator from its bracket, wiggle it up higher in the engine, unbolt the bracket itself from the frame, wiggle that out, then by a series of rotations get the alternator out through the gap. Much faster and less to go wrong.
"Turns out you can unbolt the alternator from its bracket, wiggle it up higher in the engine, unbolt the bracket itself from the frame, wiggle that out, then by a series of rotations get the alternator out through the gap."
My Ford Courier mini pickup had a couple of starter issues and while I could wiggle the starter up and out, that was only at the expense of some skin on my knuckles. If I removed the radiator, which wasn't hard to do, I could see and reach the bolts easily and have the starter out in minutes. I don't know if it saved time, but I wasn't bent over the top edge of the engine compartment head down trying to feel for that one bolt behind everything, covered in oily dirt.
Well Ford is a very popular brand, even after Henry Ford wrote the book that inspired a certain Austrian painter to world heights of power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford
> Speaking in 1931 to a Detroit News reporter, Hitler said "I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration," explaining his reason for keeping a life-size portrait of Ford behind his desk.[82][77]
Remember that the New Beetle was initially enthusiastically received
Likewise the 'new' Mini (where the only connection with the proper Mini is the name. The new 'Mini' is everything the old one wasn't - heavy, expensive and big). Sadly, that's still selling well, cashing in on the nostalgia for the Mini name and the fact that it's basically just a re-skinned BMW..
I'm not sure the first gen. new MINI was a re-skinned BMW.
When BMW bought the Rover Group, there were apparently design concepts and later mockup's and even some engineering designs for five possible Mini revival cars already created by the Rover design team.
When BMW sold the remains of Rover to Phoenix, they retained all of the work that had been done on the new Mini, together with the almost production ready design of the Rover 500, a car whose styling and some design features looked suspiciously like the BMW 1 series, although that is disputed by BMW. They also retained the Cowley factory (the most modern production facility that Rover had), which is where the new MINI is produced.
Even the original engine was not a traditional BMW design, being an engine produced in Brazil under a consortium originally set up by the Rover group and Chrysler to produce small, efficient engines that would run with a high percentage of ethanol, to make it suitable for the US (and other) markets.
So there is a very good chance that the New MINI is in reality the last successful effort that came out of Rover.
Since then, as pointed out already, the MINI has become an oxymoron, not being very small at all, and now probably re-skinned other BMW. models.
The Rover 500 was designed to be a vehicle to replace both the Rover 200 and 400 models, which both relied heavily on Honda designs (the 200 was based on a restyled earlier model 213/6, and both included large number of components built by Honda), which reduced the profit making potential. The design was flexible, and could be the basis for models ranging from small family cars to replace the 200 up to larger hatch back and saloons to replace the 400 and 600 models.
When it was clear that the Rover 500 was not going to be funded by BMW, it was necessary to tweak the 200 and 400 models to become the 25 and 45, styled to match the 75, but in reality still Honda designs under the covers.
When BMW divested themselves of Rover, Honda decided to stop supplying the parts they were making for the 25 and 45 models, and there had to be a hasty but very cheap re-working of various parts of both the 25 and 45, which spilled over to produce the re-vitalized MG-R, S and T models that were based on the 25, 45 and 70. But Phoenix had no money to create a new car (now that the Mini and 500 were denied to them) to replace the ageing models, so the writing was on the wall, and when they tried to forge links with Chinese car companies, it seems to me that the two companies involved dangled a carrot just long enough for Rover to go bust, and the waltzed in and bought the remains for a much lower price than the collaborations would have cost them.
One story I heard was that in the days following the final collapse of Rover, Honda sent in engineers to remove all of the machinery to produce any part of the 25 and 45 models that were derived from their designs, just to prevent the Chinese companies from getting their hands on the jigs and presses, to prevent them being made in China (even though Honda had long ago retired the Concerto and Civic models the Rovers were derived from). This would have been the reason why variants of the Rover 75 appeared (which had no Honda parts) in China, but no 25/45 models ever did (although the production issues of the K-Series engine were finally fixed and the result had a long and successful life as the SAIC Kavachi and NAC N-Series engines in vehicles made for the far-eastern markets).
There has also been a statement from Tesla (musk) that final release candidates are expected in 08/2023. From that it's obvious they aren't in serial production so the truck produced in Austin is very much a test piece and likely produced very slowly and manually to work out some timing and tooling. A production start in November would be an aggressive goal since there are always last minute bugs to work out and assembly tools that need to be sorted.
There's no firm pricing yet, but Tesla's release order has been to first produce a fully loaded "Founder's Edition" followed by the same spec without the FE badge on and then work down the list of load-outs until they need to invite orders for the most basic version when the pipeline looks to be drying up. If the single motor, shortest range version is offered in under 2 years, that would be a bad sign and its price is likely to be much higher than Elon tossed out initially.
The general form-factor of the pickup is something that's been found very useful over the years and why there aren't radically different takes. One thing that doesn't look possible for the Cybertruck is that it doesn't lend itself to being produced as a cab/chassis model for third parties to add specialized cargo boxes to optimized for different trades. Accessory makers are also needing to wait to design ladder racks, tool boxes and other addons. They'll need to see how Elon implemented his talked about 'exoskeletal' approach to the design of the truck. Other pickups are a chassis on frame so it's not too hard to create gooseneck and 5th wheel mounts for towing. It's a wait and see if those will be possible on the Cybertruck without having to tear down and remanufacture the back end for those connections.
I don't see the CT as good value for money. I have also noticed that designs that are way off the beaten track often only last for a few years before production is ended. I have a feeling that some of that is due to those designs losing the "look at me" attraction when they become seen too frequently in the wild.
"Please tell me that Tesla does not actually call their prototype vehicles "release candidates"."
That's the wording I saw although I don't know if that's what Elon called them or what the 'journalist' called them.
I think they won't be prototypes, but production test articles that are expected in August. Mostly hand built on a mock up assembly line where they can do time/motion studies and train supervisors on assembly best practices/concerns. They should be feature locked at that point unless something is discovered that has to be fixed. That's what I would do, but Elon doesn't often do things any way a sane person would expect.
"I think the automotive industry just calls these "pre-production" vehicles."
The nomenclature may change from company to company, but most pre-production cars are the first samples they'll make and hand out to company higher ups, testers and sometimes the press. They are often a look at what should be what will come off the production lines and not need anything more than a few final refinements. This is also where they discover through what might be described as a form of Monte Carlo analysis if combinations of settings/functions cause problems.
They'll need to see how Elon implemented his talked about 'exoskeletal' approach to the design of the truck. Other pickups are a chassis on frame so it's not too hard to create gooseneck and 5th wheel mounts for towing. It's a wait and see if those will be possible on the Cybertruck without having to tear down and remanufacture the back end for those connections.
This is what I'm curious about, ie how well it'll actually perform as a work truck. I get the feeling it's not really been designed for that purpose though and many truck buyers don't use them for that purpose. So more an RV, and how well it'll handle stuff like towing a trailer.. Possibly with a decent sized petrol/diesel genset on it to rescue stranded campers who've been abusing the comfort features.
"Exactly none, would be my guess."
Well, it does have -- on paper at least -- a much higher payload than a presumably cheaper F150 (3500 lbs vs around 2000 lbs). Maybe a few people will have a valid work-related use case.
A question: A lot of work and recreational use of pickups involve driving through fairly deep water. Crossing streams. Launching and recovering boats, etc. Water and electricity are a notoriously poor fit. Is that going to be a problem?
"Well, it does have -- on paper at least -- a much higher payload than a presumably cheaper F150 (3500 lbs vs around 2000 lbs)."
Assuming a full capacity load (cargo plus trailer), how many times do I have to recharge the battery between Sonoma, CA and Reno, NV? I can get there and back on a tank in the gas/petrol powered pickups (with fuel to spare). Two round-trips in most of the diesels (nearly draining them). All are easily filled back up in under 10 minutes, ready for another adventure, if needed.
re: Water. I haven't the foggiest. Hopefully they've thought of that. However ... My buddy & I built electric JS550 Jetski[tm] conversions that we used in and around the Port Of Redwood City, California in the mid-eighties. Ask anyone who hung out in the afore-mentioned port, Pete's Harbor, Docktown, the Municiple harbor, and the various sloughs in the neighborhood.
Yes, salt water & high current caused all kinds of problems. We ran them for maybe two years, before giving up on the idea as more trouble than it was worth.
No, they were not quiet. Pushing water makes noise.
"Possibly with a decent sized petrol/diesel genset on it to rescue stranded campers who've been abusing the comfort features."
The ideal place for the genset is on the trailer and the ability to connect it up as a range extender since when not towing, the advertised specs make it look like it will have plenty of range. It would just mean that you'd want a larger generator that what's typical now. If the truck could power a camper trailer at night, it wouldn't be necessary to run the generator when camping if there's enough amps in the can.
It would just mean that you'd want a larger generator that what's typical now. If the truck could power a camper trailer at night, it wouldn't be necessary to run the generator when camping if there's enough amps in the can.
That's why I'm curious. So the two issues of performance when towing, and what will happen if people assume they can use a Cybertruck instead of a generator. So kind of typical consumer stuff, like towing a trailer carrying a car (especially another EV, because extra weight) or towing a caravan.. I mean camper van. So then a combination of it's weight plus any aerodynamic losses. If people do try powering an Airstream in an Arizona summer off their EV, well, caveat emptor I guess. That one would probably be more realistic for the urban/suburban buyers who might want a camping holiday involving maybe a 200mile trip to the camp area. Then a generator in the truck bed might make sense, but turns the Tesla into more of a hybrid.
Edit: Can you actually mount a gooseneck/5th wheel in the bed? Not seen any details about where the batteries are hidden. And can you fit towing mirrors?
"Can you actually mount a gooseneck/5th wheel in the bed?"
Of course. Might take several hundred pounds of added steel to make it structurally sound, though. What range were you expecting when towing?
"And can you fit towing mirrors?"
Sure. I have a drill and plenty of nuts and bolts. I'll even use stainless fasteners.
"Edit: Can you actually mount a gooseneck/5th wheel in the bed? Not seen any details about where the batteries are hidden. And can you fit towing mirrors?"
I've seen caravans pulled by a pickup using a smaller version of the HGV standard fifth wheel. Caravan is obviously designed for that purpose too with a different shape, forward overhang over the pin.
I've seen caravans pulled by a pickup using a smaller version of the HGV standard fifth wheel. Caravan is obviously designed for that purpose too with a different shape, forward overhang over the pin.
It's more about whether you can actually fit one into the truck bed and securely attach it to the frame without ending up drilling through the battery pack.
"It's more about whether you can actually fit one into the truck bed and securely attach it to the frame without ending up drilling through the battery pack."
That's the question I have except it's whether you'd need to remove the battery pack, add some structural elements and then put everything back together without breaking anything you won't be able to get replacement parts for or void a warranty. Would there be room for added structure?
"Would there be room for added structure?"
Of course. The vehicle might end up a trifle wider than it was from the factory, and with a little less ground clearance and/or a trifle less cargo capacity ... But I can add steel to any vehicle, if the owner wants to pay me to do so.
Have welding gear, will travel ...
"Then a generator in the truck bed might make sense, but turns the Tesla into more of a hybrid."
Then you need to be able to get the generator into and out of the bed. If you are towing with a 5th wheel connection, there may not be room in the bed for a generator. The best approach I've seen is to use the generator on the trailer since camper trailers usually have one. Just make it a bit bigger. Don't forget a tank for the petrol/diesel. A tank that can hold 180L is easier to fit on the trailer than to have in the bed of the truck. Doing it that way is one less thing you'd need to do to prepare for a trip.
It's electric. When towing, the range plummets to the point of making it unfit for purpose.
The toobs of ewe purportedly contain all kinds of examples of the failure of e-vehicles to be adequate tow vehicles.
This aspect alone makes the tesla truck a failure before it even goes into production.
Seriously, if I can't put a medium sized Kubota tractor on a flatbed and tow it from Sonoma, CA to Fort Bragg, CA, and back, on one fill-up, it is all but useless as a pickup truck.
The toobs of ewe purportedly contain all kinds of examples of the failure of e-vehicles to be adequate tow vehicles.
Yep, seen a few on the F-150 expressing disappointment. Plus that's having a few other problems.
Seriously, if I can't put a medium sized Kubota tractor on a flatbed and tow it from Sonoma, CA to Fort Bragg, CA, and back, on one fill-up, it is all but useless as a pickup truck.
Yeh, I somehow doubt it'd be a proper work truck capable of hauling a modest sized excavator, or bobcat to a job site. But how well could it haul a couple of jetskis, quadbikes, side-by-side or a boat? Especially I guess if those all become EVs as well, and their mass increases? Which may have all sorts of interesting consequences, from brakes to tow attachments to trailer safety.
"Which may have all sorts of interesting consequences, from brakes to tow attachments to trailer safety."
To recharging ... Imagine, you're at the lake for a long weekend, you put the boat and jetski in the water, take the dirtbikes for a buzz to the top of the ridge and back, just in time for a sunset putt around the lake. Then dinner and bed ... wake up at sunrise and take the boat out to catch breakfast, and return just in time for the kids to get back on the dirtbikes and the wife to return on the ski ... and discover you're all out of juice in all four vehicles. And it's only 10AM on Saturday. What are you going to recharge them with? The Tesla with just enough juice to get you back to the charge station in the next town over? Or did you haul a 37KW genset to annoy your fellow campers with?
This entire "everything must be electric" is daft, from all angles. It just doesn't scale if you look at it critically.
Personally, I'm betting on alcohol burning ICE to be the wave of the future. It's the only thing that makes sense.
"The toobs of ewe purportedly contain all kinds of examples of the failure of e-vehicles to be adequate tow vehicles."
Even petrol/diesel trucks take a big hit to efficiency when towing and the CEO of Ford has stated publicly that if you tow a lot or heavy loads, the Lighting might not be a good choice. I expect you'd do just fine with a small trailer carrying a couple of dirt bikes or jet skis. Even a trailer with a half load of hay only needing to get 10 miles a few times a year could be fine. Trying to drag a big 5th wheel camper from Los Angeles to the Colorado River will be asking too much. In between is where a gennie on the trailer that can plug into the truck and act as a range extender might make sense. An even more important thing will be public DC fast chargers with pull through lanes.
Bjorn Nyland was towing a small trailer with his old Model X. I'm sure he's posted some data on that or talked about the penalty during some of his videos.
"a trailer with a half load of hay only needing to get 10 miles a few times a year could be fine."
I haul a set of joints from the Nevada property (where we grow it) to Sonoma (where it is eaten) at least once per month. Electric trucks don't scale when you have mouths to feed.
"I haul a set of joints from the Nevada property (where we grow it) to Sonoma (where it is eaten) at least once per month. Electric trucks don't scale when you have mouths to feed."
You have a case where an electric truck is insufficient at this point. You might be a good candidate for an EV if you are also using your truck as a daily driver when not dragging a trailer of stuff in the bed. A good truck isn't cheap so there's little point wearing one out to buy two bags of groceries a couple of times a week or take the kids to school on a rainy day.
From that it's obvious they aren't in serial production so the truck produced in Austin is very much a test piece ...
Indeed. Production lines for complex products need debugging just as the products do. Presumably, Tesla will fix whatever glitches they observed in producing this vehicle, then fire up the line, produce one or a handful more, identify more problems, fix them ... repeat a few times. And finally they will presumably start stamping these (rather weird if you ask me) vehicles out in volume.
Hadn't heard that, so did a quick check - yup, you are correct for the EU at least:
Tesla Cybertruck Not Street-Legal In EU (Forbes) - love the sentence "Many motor vehicles in the U.S. are exempt from pedestrian protection protocols." Well, of course they are.
And he has told buyers in the US they can take off the wing mirrors - what could possibly go wrong?
"And he has told buyers in the US they can take off the wing mirrors - what could possibly go wrong?"
In all of the years I have been driving, I've never damaged a wing mirror. As an EE, I can see the whole chain of things that can go wrong starting with a video camera and working through vehicle electronics to a screen. You wind up at the mercy of the least reliable electrolytic cap in the system to be able to see what's behind you and on either side.
Elon driving over a 'right turn only' sign to turn left could just be Elon being Elon.
Mirrors are cheap and easy to replace if necessary. One could get a piece of mirror roughly cut to fit and glue it in place until a proper replacement can be had. It's doubtful that you could fit a standard CCTV camera to the side of the car for a few months until Tesla can send a replacement at 10-12x the price.
"A certain Bavarian motor car company would like a word"
Hmmm, I should have snuck in a weasel word such as "relatively". If a physical mirror is broken, troubleshooting takes microseconds. "Your mirror is broken".... Here's your sign. Finding out what bit of electronics has released its magic smoke can take much longer. That's assuming that it's a hardware problem. How would you like to get an OTA update that causes the camera wing mirrors to blink on and off at random? Yeah, it will be fixed, but that's not a lot of help in the mean time. It might only happen when the headlights are on, the wipers are going and you are indicating a left turn with the sound system off. This is why I hate to put anything under software control when there is no point in doing so.
A suicidal pigeon took out the wing mirror of a truck I was driving ca. 1977, and the cost must have been about $20 to replace the mirror--not the frame, which was fine. A careless turkey (me) took out someone else's wing mirror ca. 2003, and that was not cheap--somewhere between $200 and $500 what with the controls.
A suicidal pigeon took out the wing mirror of a truck
On the bike I've had a pidgeon strike on the top of my helmet. Even though it was only a glancing strike, my neck hurt for a week. The pidgeon didn't survive a 70mph glancing impact..
I've also had a bumble bee hit my visor just seconds after I'd closed it. Directly in front of my left eye. At 50mph, it rocked my head back more than you would have thought it would! I suspect, if it had hit me in the eye, depth perception would have been subsequently more difficult..
"At 50mph, it rocked my head back more than you would have thought it would! "
Those are the sorts of things that make for great science problems in school. I play with hobby rockets where a 9v battery is often the power source for electronics. Many people in the hobby don't think how "heavy" that battery gets under acceleration and fail to fit it solidly enough. They'll sometimes find what's left since the parachute was never ejected and see that the battery has pulled out of the snaps and then understand why it's recommended that the bracket is put in the other way around than what they did. It's working through those sorts of problems that make science fun for me.
"In all of the years I have been driving, I've never damaged a wing mirror."
Well, somebody did, to the nearside wing mirror - that's the whole assembly - not to mention the door handles and paintwork.
Include the electrical gubbins that's included and it's not easy to find the correct version and not exactly just a cheap piece of glass either. And that was just a small Japanese car.
In all of the years I have been driving, I've never damaged a wing mirror
I was in my Dads car when someone coming the other way drifted across the centre-line of the road [1]. Dad took evasive action that saved his side of the car but didn't manage to save the drivers side mirror clashing with the mirror on the other car.
I've never seen a mirror assembly explode like that before - it was on a country A road so our closing speed was 120mph (ish - Dad was doing about 65). Luckily, his window was closed!
[1] I saw the other driver was looking down - presumably looking at a map or some such (this was *way* before mobile phones.). He did stop and admitted liability (I had my (black and white film) camera so took some pictures of the tyre marks on the road..).
One could get a piece of mirror roughly cut to fit and glue it in place until a proper replacement can be had
Might not even need to get it cut. I once did an emergency replacement after the mirror glass fell out of a wing mirror (on a rather antiquated vehicle) with a hand mirror and some 5-minute epoxy and some sort of shim (don't recall what I used for that). Basically glued the hand mirror to what remained of the wing-mirror internals. Worked well enough until I was able to get a replacement.
But the style these days is for excessively complex, fragile solutions to simple, long-solved problems.
It's insanely heavy and anything less sturdy than cold asphalt melts out from under the tires.
Speaking of tires - Every requirement for a tire is like a price multiplier. The Cybertruck is going to need truck size * high performance * extra tread * low rolling resistance * extra load * speed rated. Bugatti owners must be smirking.
"The Cybertruck is going to need truck size * high performance * extra tread * low rolling resistance * extra load * speed rated."
You could fit lots of different tires to save money, but then your efficiency/range takes a hit. One person I watch on YT put different tires on his Chevy Bolt and could see an obvious loss in efficiency. Even though the stock Michelin tires are more money than the Continental replacements, the cost due to efficiency losses might make the savings, not savings. I fitted the top rated tyres on my car at a premium price over some cheap Chinese product. Just one flat tire or one fewer visits to the tyre shop more than pays the price difference. Sir Samual Vimes and his boots, etc.
CyberTruck v Boxer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(armoured_fighting_vehicle)
sort of like
Musk v Zuckerberg
If you watched the first video and were wondering why that bloke carried the wooden ramp away after I'd said they could store it in the back of the Cybertruck:
That was one of their first test item "reusable ramps": it had to go back to the workshop for a clean and refurb before being re-certified. Musk promises that, by the end of 2025, they will be able to reach a ramp re-use cadence up to one sidewalk every 10 days.
Meanwhile, standard disposable single use ramps will be sold in packs of nine from your Tesla dealer.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-issues-delayed-development-leaked-report-2023/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/a-leaked-tesla-report-shows-the-cybertruck-had-basic-design-flaws
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/06/09/does-the-tesla-cybertruck-has-serious-problems/
"Pontiac Aztec"
Never heard of it, probably because I'm in the UK. It wouldn't look all that out of place with the many similar models of that type on the road today. Mind you, I don't care that much about "style" either, so long as the vehicle can get me from A to B in reasonable comfort :-) Having a "free" company car for the last 20+ years with little input other than occasionally being asked what colour I'd like probably has something to do with me not caring all that much about which car I drive too :-)
... being associated with Musk is now a serious handicap.
With the Model X, S and 3/Y people were essentially able to say "I'm saving the planet" whilst replacing their daily (ish) driver. These days, anyone buying the Cybertruck is having to say they think Musk's continued nutty alt-right chaos is normal behaviour. That's a pretty hard sell.
Clearly the Cybertruck isn't saving the planet, and your average plumber/farmer is not about to be posing next to a city boy's idea of what real men drive.
That seems to reduce the market to Musk fans and people who still go to see Marvel movies. There are certainly enough to take the initial order, but beyond that... a truck that is going to date the moment it's on the streets, will cost a fortune to run and pisses off just about every other group is not what I'd be relying on to grow the company.
Meanwhile, the 3/Y is beginning to look dated and is missing a refresh, just when all of the competition are beginning to release second and even third-gen alternatives. No-one has really managed to bet against Musk yet, but this really is hard to swallow as a good move.
"Meanwhile, the 3/Y is beginning to look dated and is missing a refresh, just when all of the competition are beginning to release second and even third-gen alternatives."
Seeing a Model Y in my rear view mirror, it looks like a reboot version of the VM Beetle. I wonder if that was intentional or accidental?
But are they saving the planet ?
Anyone can say anything tht doesnt make it true ?
Nobody is going to recycle these batteries, just like nobody is recycling them today, and please dont tell me some startup did 1000 batteries last year...
Notice Musk himself doesnt BUY used batteries, just like he doesnt spend money on HYPERLOOP, because he knows both are bullshit
I was in Madrid, Spain, this week, and got a Tesla-S as a taxi going back to the airport.
I like the fact that they had to change the external door handles so that passengers could use them easily, and also put labels inside on where to push to open back said doors...
Like the Aztec, Cube or Prowler because they want attention, I still don't understand who the target market for this is.
The kind of people who buy pickups most don't buy electric vehicles - many of them are climate deniers. Plus they like functional and traditional pickups, not something that looks like it belongs in a bad sci fi movie.
I would never buy a Tesla because of Musk (and the build quality issues both people I know who have one have endured) but if not for that I could see myself buying any of the Teslas that have come to market so far. I wouldn't drive the nutty Cybertruck if you gave it to me for free.
"I wouldn't drive the nutty Cybertruck if you gave it to me for free."
I wouldn't either, but I'd certainly take delivery and get it listed as fast as possible to exercise the "Greater Fool" theory. I'd take some of the money and get a clean used Bolt that's had the battery recall replacement done (10% more capacity and a reset on the warranty). A red one by preference. The rest of the money would go for a new roof on the house and as many solar panels as I can fit on top of that. I expect I'd still have some money left over for lunch.
"The first ever design document got leaked on line. It was drawn in crayon and titled "my cybertruk by Elon age 7½""
In one of Common Sense Skeptics' videos, they show a page from a 'future' magazine published in the 1960's with a car that is remarkably similar to the CT. A bit before Elon was born.
It's 2023 and here it is, the much awaited DelorAztec. Yes, you wanted your ugly in Stainless Steel and here it is. Why didn't he use the same people who designed the rest of the Tesla's? They understood that conventional looks = sales, especially when you are introducing new product into an existing market. Oh well, at least we won't see any on the roads over here.
Going against the grain here, clearly a lot of Anti-Musks in the comments, but I'd have a Cybertruck!
I suspect it will sell relatively well, it will be cheap to run, be fairly indestructible and it won't rust away (it's stamped/bent stainless, hence the straight lines). Looks weird, but so did the Ford Sierra when it first came out, and that sold well. Problems are its size and no RHD variant. I reckon it will work well as a pickup for the majority of tasks pickup owners use them for.
Yeah, it's not a popular opinion, but I rather like it. Far too big for UK roads, of course, so I will never own one, but I think it looks good, and it's very durable.
I find it sad how many knee-jerk reactions are posted whenever it is mentioned. You don't like it? Cool, don't buy one. You don't have to pretend that your engineering chops are better than the whole of Tesla to justify that stance, as so many people do.
Down-vote away. I don't care, it's your own time you're wasting.
GJC
"No RHD variant as there are almost no countries with RHD that will allow it on their roads due to pedestrian safety requirements."
Tesla, believe this if you will, returned the reservation money to Australian fools since it seems they don't have firm plans now to ship CT's down under. Might that be due to RHD requirements? Will CT's be sold in Blighty? They are so big, they'd be little fun to try and navigate around the Lake District in one. London? ahahahahahahahahahaha
If you need a bullet proof vehicle, maybe the real problem is you live in s shithole country.
I fail to understand why anyone woyuld think they live in the greatest country in earth if they need a bullet proof anything but then again maybe we are looking at it all wrong and gun massacres are a honour.
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