back to article Boss such a tyrant you need a job quitting agent? It works in Japan

Certain tech bosses are notoriously temperamental – so much so that conflict-averse folks have been known to put in their notice while the execs are on leave. But some Japanese employees have taken this a step further – actually employing an agent to quit their job for them. The idea is to extricate themselves from delicate …

  1. Andy Non Silver badge

    Not a fan of burning bridges

    So when I've left companies I've always left on good terms; which worked out well as I got invited back to a couple of them as a higher paid contractor to do upgrades to software I'd formerly written as an employee.

    1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Not a fan of burning bridges

      That is the right attitude! And so did I, with one exception: not only the managers I had there but also the company I wouldn't touch with a pole. And in the meantime, the company is no more...it is an ex-company. (Which fulfills me with an unhealthy amount of satisfaction.)

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    It would be very easy to see this combined with a job search/recruitment agency.

  3. DJV Silver badge

    The opposite!

    Although I've had no problem leaving companies before when I needed to, it was being made redundant four times during my working life that seemed to indicate to me that life was trying to tell me something!

    After the 4th time at the age of 50, I went fully self-employed and I've had work thrown at me ever since. Although I am now in receipt of the (rather pitiful) UK state pension I am still working and have no intention of stopping while I am still enjoying it.

  4. breakfast

    "The irony is that in taking this approach, the quiet quitters are unlikely to achieve the pay rises and promotions they so desire." I don't know if our reporter here has had many jobs, but I can guarantee that working extra hours will almost never earn you a pay rise or promotion either, but now you've wasted half your life working extra hard for no benefit.

    If you're working outside the hours you're paid for then you're doing your job as a hobby.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Possibly funnier if you're Scottish

      > then you're doing your job as a hobby.

      Maybe we could refer to this as a "jobby", because it sounds crap.

      1. blackcat Silver badge

        Re: Possibly funnier if you're Scottish

        Always poop on company time, unless they have cheap bog roll.

        1. J. Cook Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Possibly funnier if you're Scottish

          "Company makes ten bucks, I make a dime; That's why I poop on company time."

        2. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

          Re: Possibly funnier if you're Scottish

          Even with the cheap bog roll. If cleanup on aisle 2 takes longer because the company paper is wax, the company can pay for me to stay longer. With WFH though, and with me using the top of the line bog roll that's more like using a washcloth, what used to take half an hour on the clock now takes 5 minutes tops and that includes a thorough washing of the hands - and my WFH productivity ticks up a notch.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I can guarantee that working extra hours will almost never earn you a pay rise or promotion either

      That's certainly not been my experience, maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?

      Going above and beyond was always rewarded, with promotions, bonuses, extra vacation and often my choice of the next project. It allowed me to retire early, comfortably, while colleagues who preferred the 'do as little as possible to get paid' approach are still slaving away, hoping that their eventual pension will be adequate.

      A decent company will appreciate and reward good staff with a good attitude, it's a two-way street.

      1. Jedit Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        "maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?"

        I have never found a company who will pay you to do what you're obviously willing to do for free, or promote you out of a job where you're overperforming without being asked. And I don't ever expect to. That's not how businesses operate.

        1. anonanonanonanonanon

          Re: "maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?"

          Yeah, it seems managers will get the credit for being great motivators though

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?"

          I have never found a company who will pay you to do what you're obviously willing to do for free, or promote you out of a job where you're overperforming without being asked.

          It wasn't for free, I got well-rewarded, as I had expected to be.

          Maybe you should work harder to find a better job.

          1. Brian 3

            Re: "maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?"

            It's always about working harder with you, eh? As if you "know" the level of effort put into jedit's work, and have judged it to be insufficient. (just using the name b/c of the original comment). It's certainly never been my experience to be rewarded for more effort/results. It's been the opposite some times, certainly. I have seen companies which DO link remuneration with efforts/results, but the companies I have worked for will go far and beyond out of their way to find reasons to deny or ignore you.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?"

              the companies I have worked for will go far and beyond out of their way to find reasons to deny or ignore you

              Why did you stay?

            2. YetAnotherLocksmith Silver badge

              Re: "maybe I just worked for better companies/managers?"

              Yeah, he's long retired. You might as well ask my FiL what his insurance company was like when he took early retirement *40 years ago* for info on how things work today!

      2. breakfast
        Meh

        You're clearly very fortunate, but you were also able to retire early and comfortably, which implies you're maybe a generation or two ahead of many of us here.

        Suffice to say the market has not moved in the direction of treating people better than it did when you were in the workplace and your experience may no longer be representative.

        Don't get me wrong, I'd love to work somewhere that offered those kinds of benefits, but if they still exist now they are few and far between. More of a tech unicorn than a profitable start-up, for sure.

    3. martinusher Silver badge

      The only time working outside your contracted hours makes sense is if you have an equity position in the company. Even then those options need to be founder level, not the trickle of high priced options that are often doled out as a bonus.

      Its a gamble that might be worth it. Otherwise you're just covering for non-existent employees because the company's too cheap to hire adequate resources for the job. So if you do those extra hours as a favor then it should be rewarded with 'time off in lieu' because -- speaking from experience -- your time is worth more than their money.

      Also speaking from my -- and others' -- experience, it doesn't matter how valuable or essential you are (you think). You're an employee. You're disposable. Period.

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "I don't know if our reporter here has had many jobs, but I can guarantee that working extra hours will almost never earn you a pay rise or promotion either, but now you've wasted half your life working extra hard for no benefit."

      I think you're confusing being present with working. The idea of quiet quitting is to do one without the other.

      1. breakfast

        Not at all, quiet quitting is sticking to your paid hours, doing the work that is requested of you but no more, basically working to rule. The bosses get so rabid over people handing over their labour for free that they categorise limiting work to what is in your contract a kind of quitting, while they would never dream of paying you more than the amount in your contract.

        The more power somebody wants over others, the more antagonistic they find it when people maintain firm boundaries.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          And here is where human nature puts its boot in.

          Let's imagine you manage a team of 10 people. All of them "work to rule". All do fine and outstanding work, but nothing above or beyond their job descriptions. Everyone works well together. A happy place. I didn't say this was real life, but bear with me.

          Now, let's say there is a promotion opportunity. As the manager, which do you choose? They all work hard, they all do great work, so they are all equal, but you still have to choose someone. This is where your personal biases (and the company's depending upon its woke factor) come in to play. Whoever you do not pick will wonder why it wasn't them. They are all equally eligible right?

          Now consider a different scenario that 2 of the team do just a little bit more than the rest. They have decided (of their own volition) to work on something extra - whatever it may be. They are showing initiative and a willingness to go a bit beyond their responsibilities. As a manager, you are naturally going to favour them as they are showing traits which indicate a desire for career development. This isn't about clocking extra hours all the time, or regularly doing 1.5 person's work, but if you want to progress your career, you have to show something which makes you stand out better than someone else. It doesn't mean you have to be a hero, but it does mean that if you do nothing more than you are contracted to do, you are not getting yourself noticed, which does your career opportunities harm.

          There are absolutely folks in life who just want to 'do their job' and get paid for that. Equally, there are some who want to do more, to have the opportunity to earn more, which provides more. Just simply 'doing your job' and expecting the great career fairy to magically get you promoted as you think you deserve, doesn't work in the real world. You have to demonstrate it to earn it.

          And with that, let the flaming commence. I'm not a rabid capitalist nor am I any kind of socialist. Just real world in the middle, speaking from many years of experience. It's an attitude that generally served me well and likewise my children who are still early in their careers. You reap what you sow.

          1. Grooke

            That's giving a lot of credit to

            1) The manager for having the correct metrics to truly judge if the employees' "side projects" are actually useful and

            2) The employees doing "something" extra without neglecting their original responsibilities for additional visibility to management and leaving the other 8 to pick up the operational slack

            In many cases, the 8 people doing the job of 10 are more deserving of promotion than the 2 twats working on some "revolutionary" bullshit.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I've had some truly brilliant managers and some who should never have taken the job in the first place. Often though, people get promoted to be a manager without any training, so they don't actually know how to properly manage. It's a skill which requires training. No training = bad managers.

              I never said that the 2 employees were neglecting their work for the others to pick up and handle. The 'extra' stuff was just that - extra to them on top of their usual work. That's the usual normality of things - obviously not universal, so that goes without having to say it. Often, it can be a simple thing like developing / implementing a toolset to make everyone's job easier or proposing ways to change procedures to have a better impact on everyone. Sometimes even an Excel workbook can actually help - shock horror. I specifically said it was not hero type stuff, so that everyone else has to pick up their day job.

              The point here should be obvious: You do something extra which demonstrates your willingness to develop your own skills and/or help everyone out. That should get noticed, which therefore enhances your value. God, I almost said 'brand' - must go wash out mouth with soap.

              1. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

                These days, "Those two are working harder than the others, I'd best leave them alone so they keep doing it. Joe over there is a bit of a screwup though, but not enough to fire. If I promote him out of my department I can lose some deadwood without doing the work to fire him. If I promote him into Jake's department, Jake won't have the number one department in productivity anymore, and my department will be better so more bonus for me."

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              2) The employees doing "something" extra without neglecting their original responsibilities for additional visibility to management and leaving the other 8 to pick up the operational slack

              All too often the 2 that are doing something extra are pickig up the slack that the clockwatching 8 are dropping on the floor as they rush out the door.

              1. Grooke

                If there is slack when the clock runs out, it's a systemic lack of personnel that management should address. Especially given that OP describes them as a team of 10 "outstanding" employees.

          2. tiggity Silver badge

            In your imaginary team of 10 working exact hours only you omitted one real world point of relevance.

            It's highly unlikely all 10 are equally skilled.

            So, those 10 will all be working hard but some will achieve more than others.

            Thus if you want to promote people, if you have decent metrics you will know your top 2 - but it might not be down to performance anyway, promotion may not be just on current "tech" job skills but other "soft skills" needed in new role, or if in a big corp might even be influenced by hitting targets on diversity.

          3. Intractable Potsherd

            I sort of agree with you, even though I feel guilty about it. Doing exactly what your contract demands shows that you can do exactly what your contract demands. It doesn't show what else you can do that makes you a choice for a promotion, or raise, or job at a different employer. There are a lot of people who think that simply being good at the job they are currently doing is sufficient to move along the career track (indeed, when I was younger I fell into that trap myself), but it can't be. There needs to be something to show that you are somehow developing the skills required for the new role.

          4. YetAnotherLocksmith Silver badge

            They hire in from outside, obviously!

            Have you never worked in a large company? Promotion of either of the two doing extra work would mean more than a 10% reduction in team output! Can't have that.

            The other option is to find the least production member, and promote them to have dominion over the rest.

            There is no third option, unless one of them is related to or plays golf with someone on the board.

  5. Azamino

    See handle

    Yep, I can relate to this having lived and worked in Japan for a Japanese firm. Putting in my notice was excruciatingly awkward, and I was a foreigner for a local it has to be worse.

    1. bo111

      Is Japan less innovative and entrepreneurial than USA?

      I imagine when people stay in old companies the whole economy slows down. For young companies to thrive the old must die.

      1. YetAnotherLocksmith Silver badge

        Re: Is Japan less innovative and entrepreneurial than USA?

        It worked great for them for 50 years! They're a huge economy.

        Shows things down after a while though, I guess.

  6. Bebu
    Windows

    taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

    I am rather curious as how the taishoku daiko perform their task. In person? Can imagine it would be excruciatingly formal.

    Apologies JP speakers if I have commited a "the hoi polloi" on "the taishoku daiko."

    I would have opted for the singing telegram rendering "Adios au revoir auf wiedersehen" or the "Syonara" song.

    1. ArrZarr Silver badge

      Re: taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

      My Japanese isn't great but jumping over to Jisho.org and doing a big of digging results in the kanji 退職代行.

      退職 (taishoku) literally translates to 1. retirement; resignation

      代行 (daiko) literally translates to 1. acting as agent; acting on (someone's) behalf; executing business for

      So I think you're fine ;)

    2. Frumious Bandersnatch

      Re: taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

      I am rather curious as how the taishoku daiko perform their task. In person? Can imagine it would be excruciatingly formal.

      Not only in terms of business etiquette, there's also a higher level of language formality to deal with. Sounds like a difficult job all right.

      Apologies JP speakers if I have commited a "the hoi polloi" on "the taishoku daiko."

      No, it's not a "the hoi polloi" error on your part ("hoi" literally translating to "the?"). Japanese has no definite or indefinite articles, so when translating from Japanese to English it's OK to add one or some other surrogate word ("these", "such") as appropriate.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

      I quite like the idea of playing "Seeya later alligator"...

      1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

        Re: taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

        Well, if we're going that route, there is always the perfect "Take this job and shove it. I don't work here anymore..."

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

        If burning bridges is your cup of tea there is a country & western song with the line "take this job and shove it, I ain't workin' here no more".

    4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Re: taishoku daiko - the actual mechanics?

      That should be ok, given that the country gave us Karaoke

  7. Natalie Gritpants Jr

    Might be easier to fake your own death

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If employers don't show loyalty to staff, you cannot expect it in return.

    Getting angry at staff because they've been made a better offer elsewhere is YOUR problem as a manager, not the employee.

    Now, whether cultural differences mean things are percieved that way or not is another matter.

    As far as I am concerned, to hell with crappy employers. The worst they can do is offer a bad reference; and under such circumstances I'll have them for defamation. The dirty laundry one could draw upon if needed... We all have evidence of that, I'm sure. (See BOFH columns, amongst many, many others).

    1. gnasher729 Silver badge

      And clearly you are not Japanese.

  9. Howard Sway Silver badge

    Job quitting agent - great idea!

    There must also be a niche in the market for those who don't want to go quietly, but are too shy to do so. Call it "loud quitting". For just $500 I will write a resignation letter on your behalf brutally listing everything you hate about your boss and the company in general, about how inefficient their corporate culture is, and how the quality of their work is utterly shite. For an extra $200 I will phone your boss in person before sending it, and call him whatever names you have ever dreamed of calling him yourself, or you can choose some from a list, with increasing prices for each level of obscenity.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

      This is the first time I’ve been disappointed in being retired.

      Where were you 4 years ago?

    2. blackcat Silver badge

      Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

      At my first job after uni someone did just that and emailed their resignation letter to EVERYONE. It was something like 12 pages long.

      MD unsurprisingly had a total sense of humour failure and had the staff member marched off site. MD then called the company this person was going to and told them what had happened and the new company pulled the job offer.

      I'd class that one as 'tsar bomba your bridges'.

      1. Joe Drunk
        Devil

        Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

        MD then called the company this person was going to and told them what had happened and the new company pulled the job offer.

        Happened to me too when I first started in IT. Since then when asked where I'm going I stonewall them. I am not obligated in any way to tell a now former employer who my new employer is. I don't even tell ex co-workers for fear it may get leaked to the ex-boss.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

          When I changed jobs two years ago (after 17 years of working there), I wouldn't tell anyone the name of the new company. Co-workers kept asking, but I wouldn't tell anyone, no matter how friendly we were while working there.

          I see nothing positive about disclosing this kind of information.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

          When I changed companies about 2 years ago, I told my manager where I was headed, and even a rough idea of the pay raise involved. He was a great manager (it was the company and customer I wanted to part ways with), congratulated me and agreed it sounded like an excellent move.

          A year previous, while waiting for a meeting to start, several of us were discussing the crazy and nonsensical invitations to apply for jobs we had gotten from recruiters. He stepped in and said flat out that if we got a good offer, to go for it - do what was good for us rather than for him or the company.

          He was the main reason I stayed as long as I did.

    3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

      "loud quitting" I think this is rather more common in the USA, especially among postal workers

    4. Intractable Potsherd

      Re: Job quitting agent - great idea!

      You may just have pointed out my new career!

  10. Data Mangler

    Alternatively...

    Alternatively, this might represent a niche in the greeting cards market. About 50 years ago there was a cartoon in a UK daily which showed a shocked shop assistant saying "You want a get WHAT card for your boss?"

    Anyone care to come up with suitable verses? I'll offer:

    Effluent stinks

    Rotting garbage is vile

    But not nearly as much as

    Your management style.

    1. Jedit Silver badge
      Trollface

      "Anyone care to come up with suitable verses?"

      That's not a suitable verse. Being a Japanese invention the verse should take the form of haiku.

      I am moving on

      You can take your lousy job

      And shove it up your

    2. pantsu
      Coat

      "Anyone care to come up with suitable verses?"

      "Your intellect, simpler than 1-fold origami

      and I hope someone shits on your nice, clean tatami"

  11. MrDamage

    Do emotional support clowns count?

    https://nypost.com/2019/09/13/man-being-fired-brings-emotional-support-clown-to-meeting/

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Do emotional support clowns count?

      The report mentions support animals. Maybe one that would crap on the carpet on command would be best. Forget emojis, nothing beats reality.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I really, really dislike fhat term the media love so much, "quiet quitter".

    Somebody who's doing the bare minimum is also called somebody who's doing their job properly. They're neither quitting nor being fired.

    Since when have the media decided that the /only/ way to do one's job is to overperform?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Work to rule"

      It already has a name, and one that far more accurately describes both the action and the effect.

    2. M.V. Lipvig Silver badge

      Today's media is a paid media; they write the stories they're hired to write. Right now in the US, commercial property owners amd large city mayors are paying for story after story on how WFH is really hurting productivity and bosses want their people back in the office. The reality is, productivity has never been higher and the only ones hurting are corporate property managers and big city tax coffers.

  13. disgruntled yank

    Being your own agent

    I couldn't but think of how this might be handled in the rather less conservative culture of California: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Are_You_Gonna_Do_It.txt .

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like