back to article Inclusive Naming Initiative limps towards release of dangerous digital dictionary

The Inclusive Naming Initiative (INI) – an industry effort to promote and facilitate replacing harmful and exclusionary language in information technology – has developed its first recommendation lists, but has struggled to sign off on the announcement of the document. Version 1.0 of the Inclusive Naming Word Lists offers …

  1. Joe W Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Cultural appropriation....

    'We've not seen "tribe" on this sort of language list before. The INI wants it gone on grounds it "is a term that can be associated with colonialism or can be considered cultural appropriation"'

    Tell that to the world doing "Octoberfests", and dressing up as Bavarians (not Germans!), and carricatures of Bavarians on top (and actually only from a small part of Bavaria). Can we have that banned? It mocks my (ok, I was born in a place that while being part of Bavaria poliltically is a relatively new addition to the state) cultural heritage, and carricatures Germans (not that there are not many things to mock Germans about, but still).

    OK, I'm joking, but I still think it is super strange that people run around in canvas "leather" trousers, with cardboard "felt" hats. It feels like a Bavaria-LARP, and not a good one. At least give it a try to wear you own traditional garb, in Norway having a "bunad" (traditional dress / suite) is actually relatively common. Though that might be quite surreal, having e.g. people in traditional Japanese clothing to turn up to a Tokyo-Oktoberfest (if they have one....).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cultural appropriation....

      I don't I have seen or used the word "tribe" in any IT context

  2. AMBxx Silver badge
    WTF?

    Already in Outlook

    The web version of Outlook wanted me to change 'postman'. That option now disabled (can I still say 'disabled'?)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Already in Outlook

      Definitely not, it's derogatory! Use "ability challenged" or some such...

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Already in Outlook

        As in "Outlook has always been ability challenged".

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Already in Outlook

      Follow the link to the INI report. Yes, you can still use "disabled" and they give their reasons.

    3. Blitheringeejit

      Re: Already in Outlook

      Disabled is still OK - but "differently abled" is probably better. As in "Outlook is differently functional."

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nope.

    I've been using those terms for far too long and I ain't changing now. No one I know would use language that offends someone, but in a technology context they've all used these terms and more and not one person has been upset. I come from an age where a Transputer network used a farmer and worker system so that wouldn't have passed muster nowadays (Worker Power!)

    I'm surprised that "daemon" isn't on the list as it could offend atheists or the religious. Or both. If it appears on v1.1 of the list I apologise now

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Nope.

      I'm waiting for the curtain-twitching hand-wringers & namby-pambys to notice the 47 year old Beastie[0] and raise a stink ... It's going to happen, it's only a matter of time.

      [0] Where do the years go ...

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: curtain-twitching hand-wringers & namby-pambys

        They can safely be ignored. One young lady wore a Beastie T-shirt while ordering a take out meal in Texas. She escaped unharmed thanks to the courageous intervention of the shop owner.

        [Thanks for the link. Did not know Beastie was created by that Phil Foglio.]

        1. Joe W Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: curtain-twitching hand-wringers & namby-pambys

          You had to post that link when I have some stuff due.

          Some people....

        2. Trenjeska

          Re: curtain-twitching hand-wringers & namby-pambys

          When I hear Phil Foglio (and Kaja) I always link it to nice playful Magic the Gathering card artwork.

      2. Paul Floyd

        Re: Nope.

        There's already been a bit of controversy when the image for Beastie changed from a cartoon demon wearing daps to being a much more abstract red sphere with pointy ears.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Nope.

          That was FreeBSD changing too their own icon as opposed to the generic BSD one.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nope.

        It's happened a few times. Here's just one example: https://freebsd-questions.freebsd.narkive.com/T0HljBam/freebsd-logo

    2. Kane
      Boffin

      Re: Nope.

      "but in a technology context"

      Context is key in language and communication, which I think is what's been forgotten.

      1. Greybearded old scrote
        Coat

        Re: Nope.

        I've said it before, "Let them learn Perl!"

        1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Nope.

          I've said it before, "Let them learn Perl!"

          Some would regard that as a hate crime.

        2. WhoAmI?
          Coat

          Re: Nope.

          Why has no one ever put forward an amendment to the Perl controllers that collections of functions are called a necklace?

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Nope.

        "Context is key in language and communication"

        Exactly! Abort is commonly used in many contexts and it's use should not be aborted prematurely just because the USA is going through some sort of quasi religious schism over women rights. Similar applies the black/whitehats. That's a nod to Hollywood westerns who in turn took it from the age old origins of humanity where nighttime, dark, black of night was something to be feared and the light/white of day was relief from that "black" danger. This fear pre-dates the current differentiation of the various races around the world so isn't racially motivated in a normal context. Slave. maybe. But Master? Not so much. I can't see traditional posts such as Master of the Rolls, military ranks such Master Sergeant, Master at Arms etc being changed, let alone the traditional apprentice, journeyman, master being changed. I mean, FFS, even Microsoft have a load of qualifications titled "Certified Master of $subject". Although I could MS, Cisco and others jumping on this as a chance to force people to retake the certifications at great expense because the renamed version is ever so slightly different :-)

        1. computing

          Nope to Master Chief?

          What about the US navy and the Halo franchise.

          'Master Chief' has two things going against it! :)

    3. MGyrFalcon

      Re: Nope.

      Anyone remember the litttle (3" ish) Beastie statues you could buy from slashdot in the 90s? I sill have mine, with the feather and pitch fork, proudly displayed in my living room.

    4. Mark 85

      Re: Nope.

      Maybe it's me, but I find most of this to be much ado about nothing. Words and their meanings change as needed by the people who use them over time. I suppose that at some point, someone will take offense at "kill-off" with regard to shutting down processes with extreme prejudice.

      I do wonder sometimes what the next thing to be banned in the world will be.

  4. TheMaskedMan Silver badge

    "The INI suggests using other words to describe groups of people."

    I can think of quite a few words to describe this particular group of people. At this rate they'll have us reduced to hand signals. I can think of one or two of those that might be appropriate, too.

    1. cookieMonster Silver badge
      Pint

      Is “wankers” one of those words??

      Upvoted and a pint offered

      1. TimMaher Silver badge
        Pint

        “Wankers”

        Financial services have already grabbed that with their collective name “a wunch of bankers”.

    2. druck Silver badge
      Facepalm

      They've gone far beyond El Reg's favourite epitaph of cockwomble, leaving no other place to go other than utter utter fuckwitts.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too Anglocentric

    All seems very Anglocentric. Doesn't seem very inclusive to me. Shouldn't the INI be looking at other languages for their alternative words? I'm sure 'schnapsidee' could be a good candidate for something.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Too Anglocentric

      These nutters are just steps away from attempting to ban all communications with people who speak gendered languages.

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        Re: Too Anglocentric

        (Western) Norwegian it is actually gendered, just not the way you would expect. Thus, gender neutral language is really easy. There are two grammatical genders: neutrum and utrum (which is everything that is not a thing). Strictly speaking the utrum is grammatically identical to the masculinum[#] grammatical gender, but the femininum grammatical gender simply does not exist. Ok, except in personal pronouns (han / hun = he / she) which can be cobbled together to form the not too weird sounding new form "hen" (I think this is a Swedish idea).

        When teaching university students in Germany I used to tell them that I personally find it rather difficult to get this right all the time (excuse me, I'm getting old), so when I say "Studenten" I usually use the generic masculinum gram. gender, which encompasses all, and that I would try to use the (non-existing, but hypothetical) generic femininum gram. gender equally often[*]. And anyway, that to me "students have no sex" (which, of course, is wrong in the technical terms of the debate, but helps break the ice and causes some mirth). I also tell them to contact me (or the student union guys/gals, some of them are in this lecture, I know) should they want me to make more of an effort. Or, in fact, with all things concerning the lecture. They did not complain (about that issue at least), so I found the issue to be not quite all that pressing. And I know people of all sorts of gender and orientation (or whatever the correct terms are), and most of them find the whole debate a bit silly - as if language would fix the actual issues (which we do need to address, in my opinion). Of course this was a some years ago. Maybe today the Dean would roast me, or the university's president, or the equal opportunity person.

        [#] I use the Latin term to mark that I talk about grammar, not the other stuff, yeah, should be italicised, cannot be arsed. Sorry, not at all sorry.

        [*] Not my idea. There is a maths book, which used to refer to the reader in the masculinum "der geneigte Leser....". The newer issues completely switched to femininum "die geneigte Leserin..." - and no, I did not feel excluded.

      2. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: Too Anglocentric

        They absolutely want that, Jake!

        As latinamerican and Spanish speaker, it offends me [1] to see the absolute aberration that is latinxs. This movement is in deed anglocentric, but is sadly gaining traction among some obnoxious groups all over Latin America.

        [1] no joke, it is infuriating to see Cervantes' beautiful language mistreated this way, and even worse, being told that this is an improvement

    2. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Too Anglocentric

      > All seems very Anglocentric. Doesn't seem very inclusive to me.

      You mean American-centric.

      It's amazing how undiverse the diversity efforts are as "Whatever we say in America" is always assumed to be correct...

      1. Graham Dawson

        Re: Too Anglocentric

        I once had to deal with an American who kept insisting that Africa is populated by "African Americans". He almost physically couldn't say "black" and couldn't seem to grasp the idea that there are multiple ethnic groups in every African nation, none of which (save for some Liberians) are anything remotely American.

        1. David Black

          Re: Too Anglocentric

          Wasn't that Elon Musk's slightly twisted point when he describes himself as an African American? Isn't it grotesque racisism to flatten the multitude of diverse ethnicities for an entire continent into an inoffensive synonym for black?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Too Anglocentric

            You need to changer your surname!

        2. Korev Silver badge

          Re: Too Anglocentric

          I once had to deal with an American who kept insisting that Africa is populated by "African Americans". He almost physically couldn't say "black" and couldn't seem to grasp the idea that there are multiple ethnic groups in every African nation, none of which (save for some Liberians) are anything remotely American.

          What did he call black people from the Caribbean?

          1. Graham Dawson
            Pint

            Re: Too Anglocentric

            African American.

          2. Herby

            Re: Too Anglocentric

            Black people from the Caribbean?

            Kamala Harris.

            At least that's what I've been told. While she IS a native born American (qualification for the job!). She has Jamaican heritage.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: Too Anglocentric

              Speaking as a Californian living in the Bay Area who has watched her political career since the year dot, Harris NEVER brought up her heritage in any meaningful way until she was nudged off to Washington. Prior to that, everybody just treated her as YetAnotherCalifornian (as they should) ... However, one wonders why her handlers, who now play up the black aspect, never point out that her mum was from India, and her dad was a British Jamaican.

        3. MrZoolook
          FAIL

          Re: Too Anglocentric

          I once got into an argument with someone on a YouTube video about Lenny Henry. He called me out on the fact I said Lenny Henry was, among other things, one of the funniest black comedians on TV. He insisted I should've called him African American.

          1. tiggity Silver badge

            Re: Too Anglocentric

            @MrZoolook

            Given Lenny Henry was from Dudley*

            Could have really confused the American by calling him a Black Country Black comedian (or similar variants)

            * Generally accepted to be in the West Midlands "Black country" (named for the industry side effects not ethnicity of populace, inspired Tolkien's Mordor allegedly) - though (having plenty of West Mids relatives, including some from the "Black Country") there are apparently plenty of local arguments about what areas really constitutes the Black Country - despite supposed generally agreed on boundaaries.

        4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Too Anglocentric

          I once had to deal with an American who kept insisting that Africa is populated by "African Americans".

          I remember a British athlete being interviewed on US TV and they wanted to know what it was like growing up in "England" as an African America. He tried to correct them a number of times by stating he was British NOT African American and was clearly getting annoyed. I think he eventually stated quite clearly "I am Black British NOT African American" with emphasis on the "black". Many in the US can be very insular.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Too Anglocentric

            "Many in the US can be very insular."

            Yes. There are corners that are so insular they come off as completely un-American (Texas and Florida instantly come to mind ...).

            But to be fair, the UK is a very good example of an insular monarchy.

  6. jake Silver badge

    And by "solving" a non-problem ...

    ... how many problems are they going to create? For example, are they volunteering to pay for the reprinting and distribution of all the textbooks containing the words that must be sanitized/purified by this hyper politically correct insanity? What about all the existing documentation for equipment that might still be in use 40 years from now?

    And of course SOMEBODY will have to pay to recycle all the "bad" textbooks so they don't fall into the wrong hands. Anyone fancy a career as a fireman?

    What's worse, burning books or brainwashing the population with newspeak? Burning books inevitably leads to burning humans (read your history), but the idea of massive, wide-spread thought control by intentional language modification scares the ever loving shit out of me.

    1. GlenP Silver badge

      Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

      Proper documentation came in ring binders so that pages could be inserted or replaced!

      I used to have two bookcases full of the things (one for the VAX systems, one for a PDP 11/45 that wasn't used but had to be retained) to update every month.

      1. TimMaher Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        This page intentionally left blank.

        1. WhoAmI?

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          My favourite page. Ah, the memories...

          1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            Triggered a mild PTSD for me, but whatever floats your boat...

    2. Graham Cobb

      Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

      They actually seem to have done a decent job. Those top terms seem to be the most likely to be (i) offensive, (ii) widely used, and (iii) unnecessary. It is a short list and I am willing to do my bit to try to support it.

      No need to change anything or burn any books. Just stop using the terms (unless you are deliberately wishing to cause offence) and use alternatives in future.

      Frankly I am surprised by your comment - I would have put you down as quite a libertarian from your comments elsewhere, not as someone who wants to unnecessarily offend people.

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        Technical documentation is outdated the moment you carry it out of the bookstore. Who prints manuals anyway in this day and age? I just binned two shelves of old stuff that is no longer relevant. Went to recycling, will probably become bog rolls, at least then it is useful.

        I sort of agree with you, Graham Cobb. Some of the words on the list really are at least questionable; not being American, and Norway not having had colonies - while having been occupied by Denmark for 400 years - I do not have the strong mental links[°]. There's also a bunch of children's books that use old fashioned and - to me - rather offensive terms when referring to black people, and they have been reprinted in a more modern language (acutally mostly removing the N***** word). I think this is reasonable. Or other books, just read, e.g. H.P. Lovecraft. That said, I think that we as educated adults should be able to enjoy such old literature, and put it in the correct societal and cultural context. I also think that we can easily have the lookup table in our heads that simply does a substitution when reading older (or newer) documentation. Heck, even I as a non-native English speaker can do that!

        [°] Not having such a strong cultural link to the terms - English is for me mostly a technical language, a bit like... say... FORTRAN [*] - I have some inertia to change my language. Which is probably wrong.

        [*] just kidding! It's more like Python[#]

        [#] I actually do read English books, watch movies in English, listen to podcasts etc.

        1. mmonroe

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          " Who prints manuals anyway in this day and age?"

          Who reads manuals? In 1981 I wrote the manual for the accounting software the company sold. Somewhere I included "If you read this and contact me, I'll give your $10". I never had to pay out.

          Strange that "whitelist" is on the list, but "blacklist" isn't; whilelist has been blacklisted :)

          I'm pleased INI have seen sense and allowed kill, otherwise Unix users would be stuck.

          1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

            "Who prints manuals anyway in this day and age?"

            I do! Not all manuals, but many of them. I can look up many things faster in hardcopy by consulting a table of contents, or an index, and flip-flip-flipping to the relevant page.

            The problem with searching a document via computer is that I have to guess the correct magic phrase to search; frequently, I get many irrelevant hits and having to [next][next][next]... my way through the document takes longer than locating what I want in hard copy.

            man bash ... /special variables ... "Pattern not found (press RETURN)" ... /$? ... "Invalid pattern (press RETURN) ... /\$\? ... "Pattern not found (press RETURN)" ... etc.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Who prints manuals anyway in this day and age?"

              And you can scribble notes on the pages!

        2. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          HPL is an interesting "problem". Whilst he did come up with some of the basic horror tropes in use today, he was also deeply racist (even for his time) and antisemitic. This all feeds into the "separating the art from the artist" argument, because you either throw out all his works, and everything based on them (including most of modern horror and anything which tangentially references things like Cthulhu, the Necronomicon, horrors from the deep, cosmic horror, etc) or have to perform some mental gymnastics to separate the author from the works (and also separate the bits of the works that are problematic, like those bits, you know the ones, in The Call of Cthulhu that are highly questionable concerning race)

        3. tiggity Silver badge

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          @Joe W

          Regarding the "N word"

          This was the name of Guy Gibsons dog (Gibson being a leader of the WWII dam busters "bouncing bomb" raid).

          A film dramatizing the events was made of it in the 50s.

          These days the dogs name is often edited to something acceptable (especially outside the UK), or in UK if broadcast unedited then usually screened with warnings about it containing racially offensive language that was "of its time*".

          * Although it was definitely offensive then to anyone black, the majority of the population (mainly white) had not really grasped that was the case. The N word, coon, wog & similar racist language was used without a second thought in the UK back then.

      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        IF I were using such terminology to insult, demean or otherwise make somebody uncomfy, I might see your point. But I am not. I am using technical terminology in a technical manner. Pay attention to the context, not that of some alternate universe.

        Technical terms, when used by technical people, in a technical manner, are not inherently evil. They are the words that are used to describe something quite specific, in that context, and are used to avoid disambiguation.

        People assuming that any word which might, in specific circumstances, be offensive to specific sets of people must therefore always be offensive to everybody in every context are the worst kind of censors ... they are trying to pervert the language to the point where nobody can communicate freely about anything.

        What is truly offensive are the fuckwits who presume to be offended on the behalf of others. It's getting to the point where nobody can say anything about anything without somebody pretending to get upset about it in somebody else's name. Frankly, I find it grossly offensive that somebody might presume to be offended in my name. Be offended for yourself, by all means, but keep my good name out of your fantasy.

        1. Graham Cobb

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          No one is saying that "any word which might, in specific circumstances, be offensive to specific sets of people must therefore always be offensive to everybody in every context". They are pointing out that a (very short) list of words which mean something society agrees is intolerable are being used by us to mean something very different and we should switch to using different words.

          When you, or I, talk about master/slave processes we are not referring to "enforced servitude of human beings by other humans". So, let's use different words.

          One option is to make up new words: we could use 'apg -n 20 -m 7 -x 7 -M L ' and decide that rhickis would mean "process which directs the actions of another process" and that wavonky would mean "process which acts on requests sent by another process".

          But, I think it is easier to just use common words which do not carry those distasteful meanings. For example, in many contexts the "master process" might be the "work scheduler" and the "slave process" might be the "execution context". This even has the advantage that these alternatives can convey more information than master/slave. For example, a different type of "master process" might be called the "job validator".

          1. Alan Mackenzie

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            ".... list of words which mean something society agrees is intolerable".

            Intolerable to whom? The (few) people who find master and slave processes intolerable are doing so on imagined other peoples' behalf.

            I've yet to hear of, say, a black USAmerican, whose ancestors were subjected to actual slavery, taking offence at the technical usage of the words. As others have written, context is everything.

            I hope these people trying to enforce their lack of toleration on others fail. At worst, they will succeed in part, and leave lots of technical terms which currently have well understood meanings much more ambiguous and their mealy mouthed replacements only half understood.

            I know what a slave process is, and I know what a sanity check is. I've no intention of using any other terms for these.

            1. Dazed and Confused

              Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

              > I've yet to hear of, say, a black USAmerican, whose ancestors were subjected to actual slavery, taking offence at the technical usage of the words. As others have written, context is everything.

              Well that might be your experience but I frequently run training classes for students from the southern states in the USofA and I've found this has changed over the last few years. Most of the people I'm training are not young they often have 20-30 years experience in their jobs and the terms master and slave now raise hackles. One of the places where the terminology came up was with BIND. The posting on their choice to switch over to primary and secondary on their mailing list makes a sensible case for the switch. Personally I find the terms primary and secondary for the functionality to be a better description of what is going on.

              1. Alan Mackenzie

                Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                OK, I've heard of it now, thanks!

                The next question which has been begged is how important is it? The words "master" and "slave" are important words to be able to discuss the topic of slavery. The word "master", in particular, is important in many contexts in English, for example as contrasted with "mister", "copy", "subsidiary", "merely competent", or "apprentice". Or something electronic which controls something else electronic.

                Primary and secondary cannot IMHO replace master and slave. They are too abstract and probably already have too many connotations. They lack the immediate conceptual "Ah-Ha!" that master and slave have. The terms make some people uncomfortable and or resentful. To what degree? To a great enough degree to justify an enforced change in the English language? That will also cause discomfort and resentment, as is clear from the posts on this list.

                Why have we not had a black contributor to these lists expressing her/his own resentment of "master" and "slave"? Or a neurodiverse person (whatever that means) saying how much (s)he resents "sanity test"?

                The Novel "1984" by George Orwell had as a central theme the emasculation of the English language in order to prevent people being able to express concepts, and as a final aim, to prevent them being able to think independently at all. This committee would appear to have similar aims, if less in magnitude.

                1. Norman Nescio

                  Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                  The Novel "1984" by George Orwell had as a central theme the emasculation of the English language in order to prevent people being able to express concepts, and as a final aim, to prevent them being able to think independently at all. This committee would appear to have similar aims, if less in magnitude.

                  That's the strong Sapir-Whorf hypothesis of linguistic relativity (aka linguistic determinism) which states "language determines thought and that linguistic categories limit and determine cognitive categories". As Wikipedia goes on to point out "This version is generally agreed to be false by modern linguists.".

                  You can think about things without having a particular vocabulary. In fact, it is additionally quite possible to generate a vocabulary de novo (like quark, but not quiz), so banning particular words certainly does not de-reify the concept - as can be seen in the mutation of terms of abuse adopting a previously sanitised or medical term.

                  I'm happy to use different terms if inoffensive technically accurate ones can be found or formulated. It would be churlish not to.

                  1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

                    Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                    Certainly, in the absolute sense, the hypothesis rules out any coinage of terms at all--therefore it must be taken in a sense which is not absolute. And in a less absolute sense, the work required to engage a concept where one lacks a term certainly is negative cognitive feedback. That feedback can be avoided by coining a new term, or by avoiding the concept. If the concept itself is subject also to external negative feedback, it is a mockery to claim that these two feedbacks don't accumulate.

                    One terrific example of how this can play out is with the term "retarded", or whatever term in the long chain you prefer. Mental impairment is a real thing, with deep implications at almost any level. Attempts to keep whatever term is current from turning into an insult have been continuously futile precisely because of those deep implications.

                  2. LybsterRoy Silver badge

                    Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                    -- You can think about things without having a particular vocabulary. --

                    I strongly disagree. Unless of course you are ignoring the fact that you can use different terms to mean the same thing and that you need some terms to refer to anything you want to think about.

                2. that one in the corner Silver badge

                  Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                  > Or a neurodiverse person (whatever that means) saying how much (s)he resents "sanity test"?

                  I have a piece of paper that says I am "neurodiverse"[1] - and my go-to code toolkit proudly runs a SanityCheck() every single time. And does not hesitate to print out a message and halt[2] when it fails.

                  [1] actually, it tells me what my diagnosis is, not just some weird neologism

                  [2] I first wrote "kills itself" but one has to be sensitive these days

                3. Graham Cobb

                  Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                  This committee would appear to have similar aims

                  Rubbish. Almost completely the opposite. They want the term "slave" to be used only for the discussion of actual slavery.

                  1. Alan Mackenzie

                    Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                    ">> This committee would appear to have similar aims

                    >Rubbish. Almost completely the opposite."

                    So you trim the context, so that people reading your post can't see what you're arguing against.

                    Yes, this committee wishes to suppress freedom of expression and freedom of thought. In this particular case, they wish to suppress the analogy between a human slave, and a slave device, or slave process, etc. Such analogies are helpful to learning, and to clear expression. Substitutes like "secondary" for "slave" and "primary" for "master" just don't cut it. As I have said elsewhere on the thread, they lack the immediate conceptual appeal of "master" and "slave", they're abstract to the point where they're difficult to remember, and they're likely confusing, too.

                    What's wrong with "master" and "slave" used in technical communication? I've read this thread from top to bottom several times, and not spotted a single poster who said (s)he was offended by the usage. The nearest was from a teacher, who noted that the usage "raised hackles" amongst his students. It would appear that any offence taken is almost vanishingly rare, certainly amongst Register list posters.

                    I and, I think, many others here are highly offended that some self appointed committee is attempting to suppress our technical vocabulary and freedom of expression. I think the general attitude is that this committee is trying to solve a non-existent problem.

                  2. jake Silver badge

                    Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                    "They want the term "slave" to be used only for the discussion of actual slavery."

                    Like when my Master Clock tells all the slave clocks what to do, right?

                    The word slave as a transitive verb means To make directly responsive to another mechanism. This meaning has absolutely nothing to do with one human enslaving another, no matter how much the perpetrators of this nonsense seem to wish it were. I did not make this up. It's English. Really. Look it up for yourself.

                    Likewise, if you're a photographer you probably have a slave flash, if you're a sailor you might employ a slave jib, if you're a musician you probably use a slave amp, and trains often utilize slave locomotives. Etc. etc. Do you honestly advocate removing all these technical uses of the word, too?

          2. Claptrap314 Silver badge

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            Except no. The term master/slave is generally used for contexts wherein the "slave" has no choice under the architecture but to accept the commands of the master. There can be a lot of variations on the implementation, but this is the core principle. For contrast, consider a distributed database with a multi-master architecture. Often, there will be a leader/follower relationship between the masters in the cluster, and the language describing them avoids master/slave, because there is no "slave revolt" when one of the masters challenges for leadership.

            The one place that the master/slave term is uses where it should not be is when it relates to copying. If you object to "master" branches in git, however, you are the git. But at the same time, it is equally obnoxious to understanding to refer to a leader/follower database setup when the "follower" has no agency. Master/copy makes a lot more sense.

            1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

              Mis-applied Words

              Adding to this issue is that too many techies are careless and mis-apply words to describe technical things, and that mis-appliled word becomes the standard technical term.

              It always bugged me that IDE drives were set up as "master" or "slave", because the so-called slave drive does not carry out any commands from the so-called master drive. A "master caution light", is the ORed outputs of every OTHER caution light; it is in no way a "master" anything. The phrase "master copy" is yet another mis-application of the word "master".

              1. that one in the corner Silver badge

                Re: Mis-applied Words

                > The phrase "master copy" is yet another mis-application of the word "master".

                That isn't the wrong use of "master", it is a "wrong use" of "copy", if anything!

                The phrase is simply a shortening of (along the lines of) "the master made this object from which all copies are to be made". The master piece (which may well be a masterpiece, although the copy itself may well be the masterpiece, if that is the requirement to gain one's guild masterhood) is the thing to be copied, whilst the wording "master copy" taken as-written implies that it is the *result* of the copying.

                Although the master copy can, of course, be a copy itself: you can create a piece, use it as a master to make copies and then send each of those off to other sites where they will play the role of being the master copy against which those sites will verify their own copies.

                You can also have some wordplay, as in "the master copy must copied slavishly", if one is allowed to.

                "Master copy" is simply a contraction.

                1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

                  "Master Copy" Phrase Origins

                  I hadn't known the origin of that phrase; thank you.

                  I've also heard such items called, in a computer context, "the golden tape".

                  1. jake Silver badge

                    Re: "Master Copy" Phrase Origins

                    With software, the final "release to manufacturing" version is called the Golden Master, and is the version that is mass duplicated for distribution. I've never heard the term "golden tape", but I can believe somebody used it somewhere in the days of tape distribution of OSes and other large code releases. Do you have a cite? I collect such trivia.

                2. jake Silver badge

                  Re: Mis-applied Words

                  And then there is the Master Disk that any audiophile can tell you all about.

              2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: Mis-applied Words

                "It always bugged me that IDE drives were set up as "master" or "slave", because the so-called slave drive does not carry out any commands from the so-called master drive."

                It bugged me too, but for a different reason. Prior to IDE, drives were usually numbered so various schemes could operate with different numbers of numbered drives. IDE by definition limited the interface to only two drives. Multiple controllers meant you ended up with the silly situation of Primary Master/Slave and Secondary Master/Slave and even , in some rare cases, Tertiary Master/Slave. So, we change Master/Slave to Primary/Secondary and we end up in the even sillier situation of having Primary Primary/Secondary and Secondary Primary/Secondary and even Tertiary Primary/Secondary! Clearly whoever thought this through didn't think it through very far.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: Mis-applied Words

                  IMO, this daft naming convention marks the beginning of Marketing/Sales being in charge of Engineering.

            2. Aging Hippy

              Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

              Can't use "git" it's offensive slang, in Britain at least.

              1. MrZoolook

                Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                I remember seeing signs on British roads saying "Get in lane", which I always thought would be better pronounced "git". Especially considering the car in front being driven like it inevitably was at the time.

          3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            "They are pointing out that a (very short) list of words which mean something society agrees is intolerable are being used by us to mean something very different and we should switch to using different words."

            Since when has the word "abort" been intolerable in "society"? It's a perfectly good word in almost all contexts and as far as I can see, on it's own is not offensive to anyone in any way.

            Would you be happier if we replaced the #1 word on the list, "abort" with the more long winded "terminate" which isn't on the list? It has exactly the same connotations in all contexts as the word abort so we should be able to transition[1] to that quite easily to make you happy.

            [1] Am I[2] still allowed to say "transition" or is that offensive to some in the LGBTQ+ community?

            [2] Can one still refer to myself[3] as I or is that offensive to people with dissociative identity disorder?

            [3] Can one still say "myself" as "my" implies ownership and has potential connotations of slavery.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          I agree with your point that it seems to have become a sport to get offended on behalf of other people.

          But equally, the purpose of the words is to *communicate*. And you don’t control the meaning being taken by the other person, or the context of their lives. If, entirely without malice, your code contains hundreds of references to master/slave (which I personally used without thought for decades)….and the code maintainer is spending a significant amount of their mental energy trying not be upset, and less being in-the-zone bugfixing…..then are you actually communicating effectively?

          Also:

          “They are the words that are used to describe something quite specific, in that context, and are used to avoid disambiguation.” Often they are words originally chosen by the authors of standards document (Bluetooth Master/Slave), or in textbooks/courses. Change those, you change the technical language.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        nope that shit is not needed .

        They need to fuck right off

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        “unnecessarily offend people.”

        If people who read the code are actually offended or upset, I would stop doing it. The thought simply never occurred to me until this came up maybe a decade ago, eg mastering a bus, and I doubt to the vast majority.

        From my personal POV, I found it surprisingly upsetting in meetings, to be repeatedly confronted with the phrase “final solution” from a particular person. I’m certain that no harm was meant. It just stopped me cold, distracting me out of discussing technical issues. That’s one reason to consider it.

        What upset me in fact, was the lack of even a ripple of recognition about using the phrase, that the stone had dropped without trace. I did mention it offline to the person concerned, partly because his job interfaced with our Israel offices a lot. But he returned to his usual speech patterns in couple of days, and I didn’t bother re-tracing.

        I have no idea how the Israel thing went for that guy. But I expect he found those work relationships strained, apparently without cause, unless other people pulled him aside.

      5. mpi

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        > Those top terms seem to be the most likely to be (i) offensive,

        Offensive to whom exactly, the machine that is reading a configuration file? The compiler that reads the code?

        Tell you what, when my computer complains to me that he no longer likes the term, I'll change it.

      6. Plest Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        Why? Let me give you my opinion on words and their percieved imagery.

        It's like if I say "mask", what's the first image in your head? Is it a bondage mask or a kiddies Spiderman mask? I say "whipped-cream", what do you think off? I'm red blooded male and I think of fun times with my missus and then food. Meanings are in the mind of the beholder.

        These are English words that have very specific meanings. As someone who's been in IT tech for 40 years when I see "master/slave" my first image is of little jumpers on the back of hard drives in PCs fro the 1990s and then it's S&M scenarios. I was never a slaver, never supported slavery, having been born and raised in the East End sharing space with dozens of cultures and people I don't think I've ever had any racist thoughts I'm aware of, so slavery doens't even come into it for me.

        As a heavy metal fan of 35 years now when I see "black" and "white" I think of the devil and angels, I think of evil and purity as concepts. A "blacklist" is a list of evil things, I do not and have never thought of those of African heritage when I see the word "black" used on contexts other then when used to directly denote someone's skin colour. In tech context something "black" is when it's failed, broken or should be avoided, marked as bad.

        I don't see black and white as anything other than the colourful use of langauge to press home emotion. Here we have the meat of the issue to me, the English language is incredibly beautfiul, full of ambiguity, subtlety, so colourful and alive with emotion, and all you woke SJWs simply want to strip my mother tongue down to a a boring husk of what it once was, the envy of the world with our incredible literary heritage, all in the name of appeasing your "middle class, liberal guilt".

        I'll tell you one last thing, you do realise that all this liberal guilt is actually seen as insulting by most people of colour? Those of Asian and African heritage actualy thing all this PC liberal guilt is pointless, arrogant and insulting, most would prefer is stopped all the diversity and inclusivity bullshit and just treated everyone as people, people with personalities, skills and traits.

        1. Graham Cobb

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          You missed my point.

          Your point - debating exactly what terms are offensive, to whom and how much - might be relevant if they were proposing a list of 100 terms.

          But the list is very short. It wasn't created on the back of an envelope, sitting in a pub. It was created by a team of people who, while not perfect, have put a lot of time, effort, research and debate into the most important. Which none of us here have. I see no reason to assume theirs is the wrong list of the top few words that are causing concern to people. If you want to debate that, that is a different topic - and we are the wrong group of people to do it.

          It is sufficiently short that we should just get on and deal with it. Otherwise, the calls will get stronger and we will eventually be hit with a list of hundreds, with everyone's pet hate included.

          The terms we are talking about are technical terms. We don't want beauty, ambiguity, colour or emotion -- that is exactly what the critics are complaining about!

          Let's just fix the small list of ones which are apparently of most concern, now. Just because you and I are not worried about them does not mean that others are not. We are staring into an abyss of a terrible future for computing, with very few good people willing to study to enter the industry. We need to do whatever we can to attract good people, from all communities, gender, background. There seem to be fewer women entering computing now than there were 50 years ago when I started - and it was pretty appalling then!

          1. A. Coatsworth Silver badge

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            debate into the most important

            The most importan for whom?

            I see no reason to assume theirs is the wrong list of the top few words

            I also see no reason to assume it is the right list, as I don't know who they are, who appointed them to speak on behalf of an industry, or what methodology they used to arrive to their conclusions.

            Reducting this discussion ad absurdum (something extremely easy to do, by the way) I'd say that "red team" should be put into Tier1 and deleted from the memory of mankind: as a colorblind person, it is humilliating for me because I can, and often do, confuse it with the green team

            1. Graham Cobb

              Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

              Not knowing who they are, or their methodology, etc is your problem, not theirs.

              Do feel free to come back here and add a useful comment once you have educated yourself.

              1. TheMeerkat Silver badge

                Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                Why it is always the most obnoxious and stupid people who tell others to “educate themselves”?

              2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                "Not knowing who they are, or their methodology, etc is your problem, not theirs."

                No, it's the exact opposite. If someone wants to make a claim, it's up to *them* to defend and justify it.

            2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
              Coat

              Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

              Speaking of the "red team", I'm surprised that's not at the top of the list along with "blue team". Bad guys and good guys that just happen to be the colours of the two US political parties. Shirley that's election interference or something!

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

                Please don't give the fuckwits any ideas. It's bad enough in Washington at the moment. I've seen fewer conspiracy theories at an Art Bell convention than are currently coming out of the Republican side of the House. It's a fucking national disgrace ... and a sad commentary on the state of the school systems in the States of the proponents of the drivel.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @Graham Cobb - Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            Everything starts with a short list. "Trust us, there will be no other terms added to that list."

          3. jake Silver badge

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            "have put a lot of time, effort, research and debate into the most important." (your emphasis)

            What you seem to be missing is that those words are most important to those particular people.

            The rest of the world? Maybe not so much.

          4. Claverhouse

            Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

            But the list is very short. It wasn't created on the back of an envelope, sitting in a pub. It was created by a team of people who, while not perfect, have put a lot of time, effort, research and debate into the most important. Which none of us here have. I see no reason to assume theirs is the wrong list of the top few words that are causing concern to people. If you want to debate that, that is a different topic - and we are the wrong group of people to do it.

            Appeal To Authority

            Self-Appointed Authority.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

          Downvoted for "liberal guilt", and"woke".

          You can make your point without behaving like a MAGA chump. Most of us "woke liberals" agree this is all bullshit.

      7. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        I would have put you down as quite a libertarian from your comments elsewhere, not as someone who wants to unnecessarily offend people.

        I'll take it that you've never encountered any "libertarians" before if you don't think that doing whatever the hell they like with no regard to how offensive, inconvenient, or downright dangerous it is to other people isn't at the core of their character. It's the "cult of the individual" writ large.

      8. Graham Dawson

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        Abort is a very necessary term. It isn't halt, or stop; it's a iser-induced emergency termination of the process. They only included it because the Americans are having an argument about abortion. In other words, they're including words that are currently similar to politically charged topics. What words will be offensive tomorrow? Will stop and search be deemed verboten?

      9. LybsterRoy Silver badge

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        Anyone who is offended by a technical term describing a technical process and nothing to do with a human being (apart from the whitehat/blackhat possibly) should seek medical assistance - quickly.

      10. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

        "not as someone who wants to unnecessarily offend people."

        Who could possibly be offended by the term "abort" except a few people in a highly specific context? Why should they be allowed to claim a generic word for their exclusive use and meaning and then have it banned in all other contexts?

    3. Kane
      Flame

      Re: And by "solving" a non-problem ...

      "Anyone fancy a career as a fireman?"

      It was a pleasure to burn.

      (icon related >>>)

    4. TimMaher Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: Fireman

      Fahrenheit 451 anybody?

  7. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

    Insects are tired of being blamed for the programming mistakes of humans.

    1. jake Silver badge

      International Order of Hemipterans on line one ... Something about being tired of being lumped in with mere insects.

      1. mpi

        Not now, tell them im bee-sy.

    2. Dante Alighieri
      Boffin

      Disambiguation

      But as they had to be physically removed from early ring magnet memory cores, there is precedent for "de-bugging"

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Disambiguation

        Relay, not core memory.

        Admiral Hopper's note seems to indicate that "bug" was already in widespread use in the computer world prior to this momentous occasion.

        Not that there was wide-spread use of computing in late 1947, mind.

        1. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Disambiguation

          IIRC it was already in use when referring to any mechanism and had just spread to computers 'cos they are complex mechanisms as well.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Disambiguation

            "IIRC it was already in use when referring to any mechanism"

            Yep. Was possibly a Thomas Edison contribution from the late 1870s. First seen in print in 1889, IIRC.

            Sorry, my Big Dic is down at the Sonoma property ...

  8. davcefai
    Flame

    Sheer Lunacy

    The title says it. This kind of nonsense should fail any sanity check and in my view the whole project should be aborted. How come "blacklist" is not on the list? Is INI trying to cripple meaningful communication?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Sheer Lunacy

      They want you to blacklist those terms.

  9. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Alternatives for sanity check

    Passing a confidence check implies you can be confident the result is correct. When something is called a sanity check the author is deliberately trying to not inspire confidence. Coherence covers a wide range - a tungsten filament light bulb has a much shorter coherence path length that a laser but can still be used to create interference patterns. A Florida man can speak incoherently and still get elected.

    If the alternative is about as good as the current standard then I am happy to switch but otherwise I would rather concentrate on intent than a specific word. Boffin switches between a complement and an insult every few years. The intent comes from context. Substituting a synonym into context will likely have no effect on the intent.

    1. Graham Cobb

      Re: Alternatives for sanity check

      If it is a quick check call it a "quick check". If it is a confidence check call it a "confidence check". Between the two, "the alternative is about as good as the current standard".

      So, that one is easy - let's look at the actually more difficult ones...

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        Thanks - I'll use it.

        Perhaps if there was a quick check before candidates could stand for election then the OMRLP would not have a majority.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Alternatives for sanity check

          and the current "mainstream" parties would?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        For me, the associations of "sanity check" imply that whilst the check has hopefully ensure the thing checked is not obviously stupid or wrong, it is not in any sense guaranteed to have worked, or to have ensured the result is correct

        E.g. imagine I have just measured the speed of light in some material. A "sanity check" might be to ensure that the value I have just calculated is at least positive. But a quick check? To me that suggests more - e.g. it might imply seeing if it was comparable to that tabulated for a similar medium.

        Perhaps a "trivial check", or "superficial check" ... ?

        1. Norman Nescio

          Re: Alternatives for sanity check

          My thoughts on 'sanity check' are similar. In my experience they are 'not-obviously-wrong' or 'not-obviously-inconsistent' checks. They check for a minimally necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition. They are often an efficient way of determining if some presented data are in a fit state to be submitted for further (possibly expensive) processing e.g. that all the required fields in a form have some content, before going on to process the content. Or, running the Luhn algorithm to check that a submitted number is plausibly a credit cad number that can be sent to a payment processor for further validation and processing.

          Check 1 - has the submitter put something in the field marked credit card number?

          Check 2 - are the contents purely numeric?

          Check 3 - do the submitted numbers pass the Luhn check?

          All of which can be performed before sending the sanitised data onwards for processing.

      3. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

        Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        The issue here is that different words have not only different technical meanings, but also different meanings in common usage, and in a cultural context.

        Languages are pretty good at naturally getting rid of two words that mean exactly the same thing in all contexts, which means that you often can't just replace one word with another with the same meaning, and you have to settle with a similar meaning instead. "Sanity check" is a good example of a compound noun with a specific meaning, and trying to pretend that it is somehow offensive because you can shoehorn another meaning into it, that isn't common parlance, seems like it's completely missing the point.

        Add to this that most language is naturally ambiguous, especially non-technical language and is open to misinterpretation and multiple meanings, and people should be aware that the meaning they took from a word or phrase is not necessarily the meaning the person who said/typed it meant.

        Language also naturally evolves, and trying to legislate for meanings of words and pin them down has been tried before, and never worked. On the whole, trying to dictate how language is used is a fool's errand (that's probably an idiom that "they" would disallow, too; should we say, "Non-achievable task" instead?).

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Alternatives for sanity check

          "Add to this that most language is naturally ambiguous, especially non-technical language and is open to misinterpretation and multiple meanings, and people should be aware that the meaning they took from a word or phrase is not necessarily the meaning the person who said/typed it meant."

          Yes. Specifically, see the legal system. Any legal system, any jurisdiction. many words most people would never use and many more words which have a highly specific and leaglly defined meaning that mean something very different to "the man on the Clapham Omnibus".

          In business. "We have no plans to increase prices". Reality. There's a whole team of people looking at price increases and any possible way to gouge more cash out of the customers, but there's no actual "plan" in place. Yet. So 100% true at the time the statement is made.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Alternatives for sanity check

            "We have no plans to increase prices".

            Of COURSE not! We're just cutting the weight of the chocolate by half! But the price remains the same!

            You lucky, lucky consumer, you.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Alternatives for sanity check

      And they said references to sanity might be considered derogatory to "neurodiverse" people? Not by anyone who knows the difference between neurodiversity and mental illness. Some people are indeed mentally ill, and references to sanity might be considered derogatory to them I suppose, but neurodiverse people are not mentally ill, and the statement that references to sanity might be considered derogatory to neurodiverse people is itself derogatory to neurodiverse people.

      1. ChrisC Silver badge

        Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        And their alternatives may be just as triggering towards people who lack confidence or the ability to communicate coherently, both of which IME are traits reasonably likely to be found within the groups of people for whom these terms are part of their everyday working lives...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC - Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        My son is what we can call a neurodiverse person. However, unless someone is explicitly calling him nuts, he wouldn't be offended by the use of word sanity, especially when it is not about his condition.

        This is getting insane, people!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        If you're going to get all defensive, equating "mentally ill" with "sanity" is also offensive.

        Many people have mental illnesses - that doesn't make them automatically insane.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Alternatives for sanity check

        So:

        - I am neurodiverse [Asperger's syndrome, now rebranded as Autism Spectrum Disorder (level 1)]

        - I have had many problems with mental illness, including involuntary hospitalisation

        - I am gay but not "out", which is the reason for the anonymous comment.

        - I despise prejudice

        Therefore, I think I am quite well qualified to have a meaningful opinion on this type of bullshit.

        As other's have said, it's all about context and meaning. “Sanity check" expresses the semantics perfectly: are these results sane, or are they obviously bollocks? That has nothing to do with my personal sanity [or lack thereof], it's simply English. Ironically, one incident whick _did_ offend me is when I was told that I'm not allowed to say "back of a fag packet" any more - which has nothing to do with sexuality, and everything to do with dismantling a cigarette ["fag"] box & scribbling on the inside.

        This list can go and fuck itself.

  10. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Man-in-the-middle

    I'd argue that Man in this context is supposed to be the general human being and not the human male, but first I'm sure that if they were intelligent enough to infer that they wouldn't have put that in a replacement list and second, it seems that Humanity is going to the dogs anyway, so why bother ?

    Maybe it shouldn't be white US males handling this project. I think there should be some European, South American, Asian and African input as well. I don't feel part of the KKK when I say that a process is hung, or that I'm killing it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Man-in-the-middle

      My dad once saw a Linux command line I had on the screen with a kill command and he said "it says kill there, is this to do with murder?" I said no Dad it's like killing weeds in the garden.

    2. ChrisC Silver badge

      Re: Man-in-the-middle

      Rather than denigrating females by implying they're incapable of performing such an attack, it could also be seen as a compliment to them that their hacking abilities are sufficiently advanced that they don't need to resort to MITM-style attacks. Although, as this would then imply that male hackers are incompetent enough to need to use MITM attacks, we'd still need to ban the term due to it being derogatory towards males rather than females, so, err, as you were then...

    3. ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo Silver badge

      Re: Man-in-the-middle

      Mole in the middle -> thus, we can at least keep the abbreviation, provided the language despots allow it

  11. Paul Floyd

    It can be worse in other languages.

    English is mostly un-genendered when it comes to (pro)nouns and articles. Inclusive French seems to be getting more common. Stuff like 'iel' instead of 'il' or 'elle', and making a mish mash of gendered nouns. That's not so bad when it's just an 'e' at the end (so etudiant-e) but it looks a lot worse when the masculine and feminie versions differ more. For instance "Conducteur·rice de train" (train driver, copied and pasted from this ad https://metiers.siep.be/metier/conducteur-conductrice-train)

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

    Blackhat/whitehat has nothing to do with race - it originated in the old black-and-white western movies, and was simply used to discriminate the "goodies" from the "baddies" in a way that they were visually distinct.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

      Just remember that when seen through problematic glasses EVERYTHING is sexist, EVERYTHING is racist and EVERYTHING is homophobic.

      If they can make up a story that sounds convincing enough to similar minded people who are looking for something to be outraged at then it will be believed without question. The lie has gone around the world before the truth gets its shoes on.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

      Don't expect them to be logical. Those words contain "highly offensive terms" and have to go.

      It's nice for people to start realizing the world isn't just black and white, but don't expect this to mean they won't have to burn the old to show their unfailing allegiance to the new truth.

      After all "tolerance" and "understanding" are abstract notions most people don't really know the true meaning of (They aren't currently very fashionable anyway).

      1. CommonBloke
        Joke

        Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

        > It's nice for people to start realizing the world isn't just black and white

        Hey, you're being color-ist, implying one of them is good and the other is not! How dare you!?

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

          How can it be colo<U>u</U>r-ist when white is all inclusive of all colours and black is absence of any colour? Should white be renamed as full and black renamed as empty?

    3. Joe W Silver badge

      Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

      Hm, that still has the connotation of "white" demarking "pure" in Western (not the "High Noon" Western) culture. So... nah.

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

        Sheriff Bart had a white hat...

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

        Nothing to do with purity. Black / white dichotomy is the same as light / dark: known/unknown.

        For purity related things to get upset I'll point in the direction of a milky coffee: macchiato means sullied.

    4. jake Silver badge

      Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

      It probably goes back much further than that. Think about a small group of proto-humans a couple million years ago. Fearing the dark of night, because that's when the nocturnal predators hunted. The light of day brought relative safety. In other words "dark == bad, light == better" is embedded in our very genetics.

      And let's not forget that those first early humans were undoubtedly dark skinned. The entire concept of dark vs light being a racist thing is laughable.

    5. Plest Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

      There in lies the problem, moronic people with no idea about the origin, they simply see "black" meaning people of colour and "white" meaning evil, middle class who should be strung up for their inability to feel shame and "liberal guilt".

      We're losing one of the most amazing things about the English language, how emotional and colourful it is, all to satisfy those woke SJWs who want our language and our lives to be bland, boring and inoffensive.

      Language should be emotional and offensive, langauge had the power to move people to make things better. To quote one of the most amazing 4 words ever spoken, "I have a dream.", those four words changed the world in the most incredible way and made humanity rise above petty differences. Language has that power and yet this minority of fools wishes to crush it's sprit for fear of offending someone. I got news for them, no matter what you do or say you will always offend someone, somewhere.

      1. Graham Cobb

        Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

        We are talking about technical language, not general language. We are losing nothing about English (or any other natural language).

        In technical usage there is no need to offend anyone.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

        Don't forget that "black" was introduced as a term considered less prejudicial than coloured…

        1. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

          Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

          Brown Hat then, no problems there, none at all

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

            Offensive to those with IBS.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
              Coffee/keyboard

              Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

              Git! See icon -------------->

        2. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

          As with any other lists of verboten words we'll start going down the euphemism spiral soon enough (as you point out, they've started out partway down the slide already).

          A set of common replacements will be chosen, then they'll become obvious euphemisms and become as disliked as their predecessor, so a new replacement is chosen...

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

            "Short bus kids". Heard on US TV news channel just the other day.

            Or, going further back, Larry Nivens Known Space novels where "bleep", "bleeping" and "censored" are highly offensive swear/curse words :-)

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fixing things due to a misunderstanding of the origin

      Nuance is sooo last millenium.

  13. KayJ

    "All the world seems in tune on a spring afternoon when dis-tributing scones in the park..."

    1. ChrisC Silver badge

      No no, it's only depriving a duopoly of avian creatures of their lives via the application of a single object of igneous, sedimentary or metamorphic origins which is now frowned upon, reducing the global population of winged rats via the application of toxic chemical substances is still perfectly acceptable so long as they're located in your local outdoor communal recreation space at the time, so no need to go changing the lyrics just yet...

      1. jake Silver badge

        "reducing the global population of winged rats via the application of toxic chemical substances is still perfectly acceptable"

        Yeah, lead poisoning can be fast and painless.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "scones"

      Depending on how you pronounce that, you could be offending one or the other half of the UK population. Unless you go with Scon-Ez/ Scone/Ez, in which case most will just look a bit nonplussed and politely ignore you. Let;s not even go NEAR the jam/cream debate as that could lead to serious violence!

  14. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge
    Boffin

    It's not black & white...actually it is, but not for the reason you may be thinking

    I remember reading about a science experiment where anthropologists visited a variety of of places/cultures and asked them about associations between things and colours. Almost universally black was associated with bad and white with good - even in cultures that had never been exposed to things like movies where the good cowboy sports a white stetson.

    Ultimately, we are evolved from primitive folk who for millennia have associated the night/darkness with threats and danger, and day/light with relative safety. Similarly black clouds = rain, thunder, bad things....white clouds = pleasant weather, nice things.

    Other colours tend to have associations too, such as red being commonly regarded as a 'danger' colour, possibly because of links with bleeding, fire/burning, etc., green with safety (pleasant green fields, nature, etc.) which have become engrained in DNA.

    1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

      Re: It's not black & white...actually it is, but not for the reason you may be thinking

      Now, now, you can't use rational reasoning, science and logic to push back against stupidity like INI. True meanings, original sources for concepts, even accurate context, are simply irrelevant to these people. The more you counter them with reasonable debate, the louder they will shriek to drown you out.

      It's misguided censorship of the worst kind. A small group of people deliberately ignoring actual intent and context, being offended on others' behalf (whether or not those others actually give a damn) and trying to force the world to bow to their way of thinking. All the while never doing anything to actually solve the underlying societal problems of racism, mysogeny, slavery, violence etc.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: It's not black & white...actually it is, but not for the reason you may be thinking

      Black and white are tones and not colours… but, yes, it's known/unknown that they refer to specficially.

      Red is a universal colour throughout nature to signal danger (some flowers only appear red if you can seem in UV light).

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: It's not black & white...actually it is, but not for the reason you may be thinking

        "Red is a universal colour throughout nature to signal danger (some flowers only appear red if you can seem in UV light)."

        Careful what you call "universal". In some cultures, red is a sign of good luck. In others, white is primarily worn at funerals/in mourning. Some cultures have no separate words for blue and green they are just variations/shades of the same colour so in some parts of the world when you ask what colour the sky is where they live, they may well say "green" :-)

    3. Norman Nescio

      Re: It's not black & white...actually it is, but not for the reason you may be thinking

      I remember reading about a science experiment where anthropologists visited a variety of of places/cultures and asked them about associations between things and colours. Almost universally black was associated with bad and white with good - even in cultures that had never been exposed to things like movies where the good cowboy sports a white stetson.

      It would be good if you could dig about a link/citation for that study - I'd be interested in reading it.

      As far as I remember, white is the colour of mourning in large parts of East Asia - non definitive support - but if associated with rebirth could well have positive connotations even there. White was also used for certain types of mourning in Europe - look for deuil blanc.

      For a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, perhaps if 'black' and 'white' are so problematic, perhaps we could borrow/steal technical terms from another field when describing the colours: the long-used heraldic technical terms are argent for 'white', and sable for black.

  15. find users who cut cat tail

    abort

    abort() is a C/POSIX standard function. Pretty hard to replace immediately. More like ‘gradually phase out in 40 years if you really put lots of effort into it’. But I guess they are not bothered by such little details.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: abort

      "abort() is a C/POSIX standard function"

      Be careful, it's illegal in some states...

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: abort

        Then perhaps the state machine needs some attention?

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: abort

      In the mid-late '80s I was a Yank working in a Yank company. Our software had an Abort command[0], and another Yank company asked us to change the name. We told them to fuck off.

      No, really, our CEO called their CEO and asked if they were kidding about renaming abort. Their CEO indicated they were serious. Our CEO told him to fuck off. In those words. Their CEO sputtered and blustered. Our CEO asked him what part of "fuck off" did he misunderstand? Theirs sputtered and blustered some more. Our CEO laughed at him. Theirs finally hung up. Ours said "I was wondering how long I could keep the shithead on the line." Best conference call I ever sat in on :-)

      [0] We also had kill, quit, stop and a few other, similar commands, each of which did a very specific thing.

    3. Graham Cobb

      Re: abort

      Sure, abort would not have been on my list. But I am not someone who has researched the topic for years to find out what are the terms which cause the most distress. Fortunately, we have a group who have done the work for us!

      No point arguing about what should be on the list. We have a list and it is quite short - let's work out how best to implement it.

      The world changes, language changes. That's great - let's get on with living the change.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: abort

        "We have a list and it is quite short - let's work out how best to implement it."

        Joe "Tailgunner" McCarthy had a list, too. I didn't really want to see that list implemented, either. Thankfully, it didn't really exist. This one does, and thus it is even more evil.

        Brainwashing is an ugly, ugly thing.

        1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

          Re: abort

          FISA: What!?

          NSA: Santa Claus is a person of interest and a terrorist. Every year he violates US airspace, causes financial mayhem to our economy, drops packages containing god only knows what and ...

          FISC: Yes?

          NSA: He's got a list... we want it.

          1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

            Re: abort

            He sees you when you're sleeping

            He sees when you're awake

            He knows if you've been bad or good...

            My word, that's a creepy song.

            1. ThatOne Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: abort

              You mean that smart assistant jingle?

          2. jake Silver badge

            Re: abort

            "Santa Claus is a person of interest and a terrorist."

            Santa and Satan are the same being, everybody knows that.

            As proof, one is an anagram of the other.

            Secondly, Oct 31 and Dec 25 are the same number (ask any techie).

            Thirdly, have you ever seen Saint Nick and Old Nick in the same room together?

            This makes even more sense when you think about it further ... For example, who would YOU pick as the patron saint for a holiday best known for hedonism, libertinism, decadence and debauchery?

            1. Norman Nescio
      2. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

        Re: The world changes, language changes. That's great - let's get on with living the change.

        Yeah, but this is changing the wrong things, none of which will make an iota of difference to the underlying societal problems they claim to be rallying against. Not using "sanity check" won't do anything about the current growth of real 0mental health issues. Not using "blacklist" or "whitelist" won't reduce actual racism. These are deeper problems, that need real, complex, long term solutions across multiple facets of government and society. INI is just muddying the waters, try to make themselves important while not accomplishing anything actually useful.

        Has anyone here been asked if they're offended by these terms? Know someone who has been asked? Know someone who knows someone...? How many degrees of separation need we go through to find someone INI has actually asked about this? Remembering that with something like 6 to 8 degrees of separation you can pretty much reach everyone on the entire planet.

        INI should at least be doing wide scale, unbiased research on how many people are actually, genuinely offended by these various technical terms when used in their precise technical context. Of course, that means first understanding the technical context of each term, then providing that exact context and nothing else, when asking people; things they clearly don't care about.

        But really they should directing their ire at the underlying problems, and stop bring race, gender, mental health, slavery and all the other worldly problems into things that have nothing to do with those problems.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: The world changes, language changes. That's great - let's get on with living the change.

          "INI should at least be doing wide scale, unbiased research on how many people are actually, genuinely offended by these various technical terms when used in their precise technical context. Of course, that means first understanding the technical context of each term, then providing that exact context and nothing else, when asking people; things they clearly don't care about."

          I agree and upvoted you. But would just add that tiny little nudges in the "right" direction are how you resolve the issues. But it takes many nudges of the right type in the right places and times over many years to change things. And I don't believe this action from INI is any kind of nudge at all since it's targetting only one industry which most non-industry people are not even aware of the internal technical terms used. The sort of nudges needed are long term and should come from the very top. Elected officials are a wide church and some are racist homophobes elected even when people know that about them and they can't think long term, but only as far as the next election. We're stuffed :-)

      3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: abort

        You seem to have simple and misguided understanding of how language changes, namely that you can somehow order it.

        1. Graham Cobb

          Re: abort

          Technical language can be ordered.

          1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

            Re: abort

            What? You mean the keywords in a language? I suppose so, but that's not really going to change usage; it'll just piss people off.

            Tokenism is designed to fail: "we tried but the obstacles were too great". It's patronising bullshit and a nice gravy train for a few. I've sat in conferences of people wringing their hands about diversity in IT but never seen any of them offer to do much about it, like give 50% of their pay to those in need, or go to deprived parts of cities to teach the underprivileged.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @Graham Cobb - Re: abort

            It clearly seems this is not the right church for you to preach in.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The terms ‘disable’ and ‘disabled’ are valid in the context of technology...

    So why do other terms get blacklisted* in the context of technology?

    I checked the list, I can still use that word.

    1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

      Disable and disabled I kind of can see their point. But the big question is what to replace it with? I can't think of a single word that could replace it (that we're not already using in a specific context) and I suspect we'll be ending up with a bunch of situation specific terms that ends up confusing everyone.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "Disable and disabled I kind of can see their point."

        Disabled became the "in vogue" term to use when "handicapped"[1] became a term of insult, or least had bad connotations. Whatever "disabled" gets replaced with will go the same way. See also The Spastic Society and their relatively recent name change. I still see people using "spaz" online as an insult, mainly US people, most of whom probably have no idea of the origin of the term "spaz", a word very rare here in the UK nowadays.

        [1] I think in the US, they still use "handicapped" as a normal, everyday word, eg handicapped parking with, AFAIK, no underlying connotations

        1. jake Silver badge

          Yes, handicapped parking (and etc) is still normal around here. There are grumblings, though usually not very loud.

          I haven't heard "spaz" in the wild for several decades. Maybe early '90s, probably late '80s.

          I just told the computer to play Ian Dury's "Spasticus Autisticus" from '81 ... Truly fantasticus musicus. RIP Ian, and thank you.

  17. Peter Prof Fox

    Save

    Ban Save

    Years of religious bigotry, patriarchy and fundamentalism right in front of me every day! If I had a soul then I'd do what I liked with it when I liked.

    1. Cybersaber

      Re: Save

      Not to mention that you'd have to censor the all three major Abrahamic religions, which is full of Black = wrong behavior or evil, and white = purity. Apparently mine and their religion is unacceptable now. Gotta censor the sincerely held beliefs so we can show off how 'caring' and 'sensitive' and 'inclusive' they are.

      I would be offended, if I was the kind of idiot to waste the energy to get offended by moronic, white SJWs who are just trying to score political points with their in-crowd by showing how much holier-than-thou they are.

  18. Primus Secundus Tertius

    Time to abort

    Time to abort this masterpiece of nonsense that will cripple the language.

    I do accept that an insult is different when you are receiving it rather than delivering it. Nevertheless, these ideas reflect an obsession with the appearance of language rather than its meaning.

    1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

      Re: Time to abort

      an insult is different when you are receiving it rather than delivering it.

      It's also about context and intent.

      For example, to say "dropping the database will cripple the application" is acceptable, whereas "he can't get up the stairs because he's a cripple" is not

  19. disgruntled yank Silver badge

    Shades of gray

    May I offer to INI's consideration "submit" and "bind"?

  20. Mike 137 Silver badge

    An alternative?

    As these terms are considered to be derogatory, "non-inclusive" etc. in respect of people, why don't we stop using them when referring to people instead of banging on about their use in the tech sphere. If we did that they'd lose their negative connotations and could re-enter the legitimate lexicon. As far as I'm aware IT, except possibly ChatGPT ;-), can't get offended.

    It amazes me that, just for example, we continue to refer to people as "Black" or "white" (terms directly originating in the racial prejudice of colonial exploiters), as nobody is actually either black or white -- we all range from blotchy pink to beautiful brown (even supposing it matters anyway).

  21. graeme leggett Silver badge

    On nature

    'Please note that it is inadvisable to feed most birds scones.'

    Sometimes, the human doesn't choose to.

    My evidence - the gulls haunting the cafe near the lighthouse on Portland Bill.

  22. Andy 73 Silver badge

    Ironically...

    Ironically, the tier 1 list doesn't appear to contain the phrase I wish to use... starts with an F and ends in off.

    Giving words more power than they require is just a way to insert your own ridiculous cultural associations into other people's discourse. Great for getting funding and attention, but not actually delivering anything useful. Words can and do have more than one meaning, and as grown adults we should be capable of understanding which is appropriate and elevating that use, not censoring our thoughts.

    I'd suggest the word most strongly associated with Colonialism is... Colonialism. We should start by banning that one and see how we get on from there. I look forward to their updated report.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nope.

    My code and my config files are not participants in any culture wars, identity politics, or whatever else may currently occupy the attention of any political group. My code is a communication between me and pieces of silicon that our technology tricked into thinking just enough to make numbers can go brrr very fast.

    There are three, and exactly three, reasons why I would change my code:

    1. To fix a problem or improve functionality.

    2. To make my life easier. That's the reason why I always named my git repos main branch "main" or "root" long before the whole discussion came up: Because "main" or "root" has me type 4 letters, and "master" has me type 6 letters.

    3. Because I get paid to do it.

    What ISN'T a good reason to change my code, and risk breaking things, is because someone, somewhere thinks that it is somehow bad that the words that the aforementioned piece of impure silicon gets to work with, could in some contexts maybe be interpreted as something bad, if someone really really tries to do so.

    If you want to do activism for equality, here are a couple of ideas that actually have a chance to improve peoples lives:

    - Vote for politics against racial injustice in the workplace, judicial system, housing market

    - Vote for politics for equal pay for women

    - Vote for politics for free access to education

    - Vote for politics for well funded public healthcare

    - Vote for politics for well funded public infrastructure

    - Vote for politics for public social care, including child care and pensions

    - Vote for politics promoting public oversight of political offices and institutions

    - Vote for politics for citizens rights to privacy and control over their data

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nope.

      You forgot the most critical one.

      - Vote to remove corporate money from politics, entirely

  24. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    I've no idea what tribe might mean in an engineering context. However, as to the rest, anyone who doesn't have a clear understanding of what they mean in an appropriate context is clearly unfit to make a judgement on them. Hence those responsible for this "initiative" must be deemed incapable of conducting it and their list of terms declared invalid.

  25. Plest Silver badge

    THIS IS BULLSHIT!!

    Free speech and the right to use certain words are our right as free thinking human beings. The word "abort" is simply a word to indicate that something will be terminated before it's time.

    "whitelist" is not racist, how the hell can it be? What we can't used the words "white" or "black" to denote colours that mean good and bad? White as in the colour not the pink fleshy tones of we pasty northern Europeans and "black" is simply just a colour, it is not referring to the dark or olive skin tones of African heritage.

    Why not ban red, green and blue as they're racist to lobsters, slugs and the fricking sky!

    "inclusive" means nothing of the sort, it's usally the complete opposite in that it will exclude those hated by a minority of woke SJWs hell bent on crushing and destroying things they hate in western society.

    My advice is read "Love Letter to the West" by Konstanin Kisin and learn what it means to have a breath of fresh air and common sense flowing through your brain.

  26. Howard Sway Silver badge

    Abort, Retry......... Fail

    List is far too short. Here are some more necessary additions :

    threads - could be offensive to naturists

    icon - comparing that little graphic to a holy religious picture is offensive to orthodox christians

    exploit - offensive to all the world's exploited.

    dongle - offensive to some who may or may not have a certain body part.

    executable - offensive support of death penalty, even genocide.

    run - offensive to many people with disabilities who can't.

    binary - offensive to non-binary people

    I mean, this is so easy, I could spend the whole afternoon coming up with these..........

    1. Graham Cobb

      Re: Abort, Retry......... Fail

      Fortunately you don't need do. You'll be pleased to hear that a group of people have spent a lot of time researching and come up with a short list of the terms that are most likely to cause concerns just so you don't need to.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Abort, Retry......... Fail

        Well I formed a committee of learned folks (at least 3 PhDs in there) who have pronounced that folks named Graham are racist, sexist, transphobic wankers. As they are learned and appointed, I can assume you're good with that.

        I understand that you dislike "hate" or "offensive" language, but you do also see why people may be concerned on who puts limits on their speech, no?

        1. Norman Nescio

          Re: Abort, Retry......... Fail

          Well I formed a committee of learned folks (at least 3 PhDs in there) who have pronounced that folks named Graham are racist, sexist, transphobic wankers.

          They are also crackers.

        2. Graham Cobb

          Re: Abort, Retry......... Fail

          No, I don't 'dislike "hate" or "offensive" language'. I am just polite and respond to people who ask us not to cause offence.

          I am putting no limits on your speech. You are obviously offensive, although also a coward, and can continue to be as offensive as you have already been to me. But that doesn't mean that we, as an industry, should not change a very small number of terms to cause less offence by mistake.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Abort, Retry......... Fail

        Maybe The Register could write an article about it? *rollseyes*

  27. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Sounds typical

    Quote

    "The INI's leaders include reps from IBM, Microsoft, Dell, Intel, Red Hat, Cisco, Extreme Networks, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and GitLab."

    And I bet these people are the people from the various companies who cannot be fired for internal political reasons, yet have to be given a job to do.

    So lets put them in INI and have them do a make work project keeping them safe from harming any of our businesses.

    In case anyone hasn't noticed english is full of terms that could be offensive, hell , even using the word english could be taken as an offensive term given its association with the colonia era (although all of europe was at it at the time)

    So lets lets the non offensive terms we can use in tech to describe/name stuff.

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    There finished the first batch of words

    1. Andy 73 Silver badge

      Re: Sounds typical

      I wonder if they might want to add "B Ark" on their list?

      (5 internet points for those who get the reference)

      1. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

        Re: Sounds typical

        5 points is very generous for a reference that even a telephone sanitiser should get.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Sounds typical

      "even using the word english could be taken as an offensive term"

      I once overheard an Amish friend chastise his son for calling me "English".

      It would seem I am more properly called "friend" within his household.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Sounds typical

        Yeah, maybe we English should be accusing the Amish of cultural appropriation?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Sounds typical

          In my experience you can accuse the Amish of whatever you like. They will just smile and walk away.

  28. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    I checked the date

    It's not April 1st. Is this from a long lost Monty Python?

    Really, life is too short to worry about this sort of thing but no doubt some dickwad (it's okay because I want to be offensive) will include conforming with this kind of shit in a code of conduct. Remember kids, it's fine not to pay people properly and overwork them just as you use the correct terminology and respect their choice of disenfranchisement!

  29. Abominator

    Good to see Cockmaster is not banned.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Likewise, cockwomble, despite it being specieist :-)

  30. pip25
    Childcatcher

    I don't care.

    The post is required, and must contain letters.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: I don't care.

      You clearly care enough to comment.

      1. pip25

        Re: I don't care.

        Touché. :) I do see the topic's significance, what I couldn't care less about is these people telling me what words I am allowed to use.

        1. jake Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: I don't care.

          That's better. Have a beer.

          (Most might find it strange, but I'd say the same thing if you agreed with the INIots ... Everybody's allowed to have an opinion.)

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > Tier 1 – Replace Immediately

    > * Master

    > * Master/slave

    The BDSM community asks you to kindly go fuck yourselves

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      Coat

      But only if you beat them first!

  32. Captain Hogwash Silver badge

    Heard this before somewhere

    It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.

    1. Ian Mason

      Re: Heard this before somewhere

      OI Montag! You forgot your Salamander!

  33. JoeCool Silver badge

    In my culture

    a "Sanity check" is an initial test of rudimentary functionality across one or more systems.

    Who are these INI morons to misapproporate my definitions ?

    And even worse, they seem to be creating hate speach out of them.

  34. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
    Meh

    Blackout seems an unnecessary addition

    I would have thought that "blackout" seems like a reference to a loss of power rather than anything. Plus there's "blackout curtains" available at almost every shop that sells more than a minimum selection of curtains. Maybe they're not happy with the Blitz reference?

    Black does have positive connotations too. I certainly prefer seeing it on my bank statements rather than that nasty red colour, so are they going to suggest we stop using "in the black" next?

  35. CommonBloke
    Flame

    Virtue signaling?

    I mean, I never saw any groups ask for any of those terms to be dropped. Maybe the master, master/slave thing makes some sense, but black/white hat, list? What next, we won't be able to use the expression "black and white" to express obvious differences? What're you going to call those? Day/Night instead? Oh no, now you're discriminating against time of day! What about #000hat and #FFFhat? Oh no, now you're discriminating against the people that don't understand 256 color codes! What about...

    > "red team" because it's not a reference to indigenous people

    That they even thought it *could* be a reference to native americans speaks more about them than whoever came with the term

    > "fair hiring practice" which INI folk decided could not be construed as indicating a preference for light-skinned people.

    OH MY F--KING GOD, GO TOUCH SOME GRASS! The english language is full of drunken nonsense and reuse, but that leap of logic would be enough to send the whole INI to the moon.

    No, really, the mere fact that those Tier 0 were even considered shows how bonkers these guys, oh, sorry, how OXYGEN-CHALLENGED these GENDER NEUTRAL PERSONS are.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Virtue signaling?

      "Maybe the master, master/slave thing makes some sense"

      But does it really? A friend of mine who owns an indie auto parts store reports that people come in daily asking him for master and slave brake cylinder parts without batting an eye. He and most of his employees are black, most of his customers are not. Nobody involved has any issue with the nomenclature.

      Perhaps the hyper politically correct set don't work on their own cars. It probably gets in the way of telling everybody else what they should be offended by.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Virtue signaling?

      "That they even thought it *could* be a reference to native americans speaks more about them than whoever came with the term"

      Actually, that almost does make a kind of sense that I'd never considered before. The "redskins" were the bad guys in the old westerns, always fighting against the "blue coats". I very much doubt anyone ever consciously thought that when they decided to use red and blue teams in wargaming and which would be the bad/good guys but I suppose there may possibly have been a subconscious bias.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Virtue signaling?

        Red signified the Soviet bloc.

        Blue is obviously the True Blue USofA.

        Originated with the RAND Corporation running sims for the US military.

        Early 1960s, height of the cold war.

  36. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

    “Then you should say what you mean," the March Hare went on.

    "I do," Alice hastily replied; "at least-at least I mean what I say-that's the same thing, you know."

    "Not the same thing a bit!" said the Hatter. "Why, you might just as well say that 'I see what I eat' is the same thing as 'I eat what I see'!"

    "You might just as well say," added the March Hare, "that 'I like what I get' is the same thing as 'I get what I like'!"

    "You might just as well say," added the Dormouse, which seemed to be talking in its sleep, "that 'I breathe when I sleep' is the same thing as 'I sleep when I breathe'!"

    "It is the same thing with you." said the Hatter

  37. mpi

    Sanity Check

    > Only one term is listed in Tier 2: Sanity check. It earned its place on grounds it "might be derogatory to neurodiverse people."

    No, it might not be.

    Language is contextual: "Sleeping with the fishes", and "Sleeping with my wife" mean two very different things. For the same reason, a "sanity check" performed on a piece of software, or a "slave server" mean something very different from any sentence where these words are applied to persons.

    So the only time these words can be seen as offensive in an engineering context, is if someone WANTS to see it as offensive. And in that case, the "offensiveness" is purely self inflicted, and therefore not my responsibility to fix.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sanity Check

      Obviously people who want to be offended will always find ways to be offended. That doesn't mean the term is "offensive", it only means somebody is offended.

      Now the collateral damage here is intention: Calling somebody a derogatory term, in the intent of offending him is different than using, in a neutral context, a neutral term that might, with some forced association of ideas, be construed as potentially offensive to somebody, somewhere.

      If you look for potentially offensive terms, look no further, there are readily compiled list to be found, they call them "dictionaries".

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lack of empathy

    Going by the comments, there are a lot of people in this world who don't want to even think of adjusting the wording they use out of consideration for a different audience.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lack of empathy

      Nope. Consideration is like everything, stretch it too thin and it breaks.

      I definitely despise the self-absorbed jerks who prefer going on linguistic which hunts rather than help with the real problems of our society.

      When was the last time you helped a homeless get a meal and a bath? Huh?

  39. pizda
    Facepalm

    What about the number 69?

    The number 69 should be removed from all open source software because of its sexual connotations. Consider swapping it with the hex representation or vice versa. Otherwise you risk offending minorities including women and transgender individuals. /s

  40. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

    We're going to need a smaller dictionary

    Let's go through, and remove all the definitions that aren't the first for a word. Never mind that it will royally screw with the syntax of the language, and the ability to convey subtlety and nuance, let's have Newspeak now!

    And before someone points it out, yes, I know this is a classic example of the slippery slope fallacy, but it is illustrative of the ludicrousness of this endeavour.

  41. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Boffin

    Bollocks

    The project I work with littered with these (apparently offensive) words. None of the devs have commented on their use, nor have any of the more advanced users who compile from source (and often give useful bug reports). There is no reason anyone else would even see the code and all the user text is fully clean, fluffy, and er... white :P

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stop getting offended on others bahalf

    As somone who suffers mental issues, PLEASE stop getting offended on my behalf.

    You can still say sanity, insane, mental, or dress in straight-jacket costumes at halloween.

    I was in a hospital with a bunch of like minded people, and you'll find that far from being stupid and wimpy, we all had sharp wit and great senses of humour, and were actually far far mentally stronger than many "normal" people. (some of this shit I saw people deal with constantly would break most people)

    We are already stigmatised. If you want to know what DOES offend us, it's do-gooders patronising us, and making us out to be weak snowflakes.

  43. YetAnotherXyzzy

    I suggest another term to be banned: "inclusive naming".

  44. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

    Given the evolving nature of language...

    ...I reckon you'll have to wait less than a decade before one of their "replacement terms" gains a new common-parlance meaning that someone might find offensive. Knowing the internet, probably one involving a sex act. Rule 34 for the lot of 'em!

    Perhaps they should focus their efforts on people doing and saying things that are offensive, rather than words which could be considered offensive in some contexts, but not this one? It’s not like there aren't myriad examples of execrable behaviour from human animals to pick from.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nerd, Geek

    I am deeply offended by the terms "nerd" and "geek" which seem to permeate the computer space. It brings back terrible memories of my school "career" where I was taunted relentlessly with those insults. Physically assaulted while being jeered at hearing those insults.

    Seeing "Geek Squad" vans or "Nerds On Site" cars brings about instant anxiety and agonizing memories.

    Yet I see nothing being done about this.

  46. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

    The other Tier 3 term is "segregate." It's recommended for replacement on grounds that it "is almost exclusively associated with the segregation of Black people from White people, an extremely racist context."

    In an of itself the word isn't racist - it simply means to keep different things apart. The word will never get destigmatised if any time someone tries to use it in any other context they get told not to do so.

  47. BackInFiveMinutes

    As someone who is only five foot, I strongly object to the use of the phrase "short list"

  48. Ian Mason

    To look at the phrase "fair hiring practice" and mentally parse the word "fair" as relating to colouration rather than the obviously relevant concept of "fairness" is the sign of a twisted obsession to try and find offence where no cause for offence would be found by a sane person. Why don't the people who obsess on these things find something relatively useful to do, like becoming telephone sanitisers.

    There really are more important things that the world needs to get on with than going looking for words that might have a vanishingly small chance of causing any genuine offence and segregating them in a ghetto, never to be used again.

  49. Groo The Wanderer

    You don't want to use certain terms, that's just fine. But don't expect the world to refit and rewrite code to protect your offended "sensibilities."

    This whole world seems to be looking for things to be offended by and complain about nowadays. :(

  50. PaulMarshall

    What are we expected to now call the starter's-thingy-that-is-most-definitely-not-a-G-U-N that starts a race?

    1. jake Silver badge

      Well, it's definitely not a "gun", that's for sure. Perhaps we should call it a starter's pistol.

      Or a signal cannon, if you're of the yachty persuasion ...

      1. PaulMarshall

        Can't imagine that lot would be fine with either "jump the pistol" or "jump the cannon". Maybe "jump the startling detonation"? No? How about "jump the toss-a-hanky-gently-into-the-air-and-everyone-start-when-it-hits^w-strikes^w-reaches-the-ground-but-not-before"?

      2. Groo The Wanderer

        What we need is a FINISHERS pistol to take care of the incessant whining in society. :)

  51. crediblywitless

    "Black box" isn't derogatory. A "black box" is something you don't have to worry about because it just does the right thing, forgettably well

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No, it's just "black" which is derogatory. I feel sorry for all those who bear that (now nasty) word as a family name...

    2. that one in the corner Silver badge

      A "black box" is something that is magically doing its job - nobody knows how (and sometimes why) it works, it just does.

      And we are quite happy leaving it that way.[1]

      [1] If you open it, it will immediately stop working and all you'll find in there is a pile of dried leaves ((C) Colin Greenland)

  52. that one in the corner Silver badge

    Get these people out of their offices and onto the farm

    Or is considered bad now to segregate cattle?

    https://www.kingshay.com/shop/segregation-gates/

  53. MrZoolook

    So instead of "man in the middle", one wonders if the more inclusive "person in the middle" would then be exclusionary to otherkin, kitty folk, attack helicopters,or other delusional species people use to describe themselves as.

  54. that one in the corner Silver badge
    Joke

    Why isn't "token" on their list?

    After all, it is only used to refer to "the token women" or "the token black" in any group, isn't it?!

  55. Combat Epistomologist

    Perhaps "jump the shark" should be on that list somewhere...

    Some of these language changes are quite reasonable. From saying master/slave to primary/replica (or in mechanical contexts, primary/repeater) for example. No problem there.

    But can't say 'segregate'? Can't say 'sanity check'? This is rapidly descending into Pythonesque silliness.

    "Saying 'yes' is unfair to sufferers of oppositional disorders." "Talking about the seven-layer OSI model is offensive to Thais and Chinese! Seven is an unlucky number!"

    "You're not allowed to say 'not allowed'. It is freedom-restricting language. You're nicked, mate."

    "Can't say 'nicked'."

    "Alright then, off to jail with—"

    "Can't say jail."

    "Right, I'm detaining you at Her Maj—"

    "ROYALIST LANGUAGE!"

    "Oh, sod it. I'm off to the pub."

    "Can't say 'sod'!"

    "You can't say 'can't'. It's ableist."

    "Oh. Well, bugger this lark, then."

  56. silent_count
    Flame

    The INI are bigots!

    I am deeply offended by the notion that the language which I have thusfar been using is in any way non-inclusive or that my choice of language could or should be more inclusive. I am also offended by the fact that this, so called "inclusive" initiative does not in fact include myself. This demonstrates the lie of their alleged inclusiveness.

    The initiative, by virtue of it's choice of name (being a "NAMING initiative") makes an intentional decision to exclude those among us that have, for whatever reason, chosen to leave the binary path of having a name and may have chosen to be partially named or have chosen to avoid having a name entirely. This decision is also deeply offensive to those of us in the tech field who have chosen to eliminate the distress caused by naming things and thus write code using purely anonymous functions.

    Finally the decision to call their initiative an initiative is highly offensive because this could be taken to imply that they are initiating something, which is plainly false, or something which is worthwhile when this is also clearly not the case.

    I hereby demand that the Inclusive Naming Initiative should be immediately disbanded, all members undergo extensive, mandatory inclusivity training, and a replacement should be instituted in the form of, "The Possibly Inclusive But Not To Offend Those Who Are Not Included In The Process Of Naming (Or Not) Things Which Might Be Named Or May Have Chosen Not To Be Named Or May Never Have Been Named Initiative Which Should Not Be Taken To Mean That Anything Even Remotely Productive Or Worthwhile Is Taking Place Or Ever Will".

    Once this has been completed, I shall commit to attending the inaugural meeting of TPIBNTOTWANITPON(ON) TWMBNOMHCNTBNOMNHBNIWSNBTTMTAERPOWITPOEW, if only to insist that acronyms be banned (because this might offend people who have trouble remembering acronyms) and that the 'initiative' read out it's full name every time that it is referred to. That should keep them too busy to waste our time.

  57. Herby

    Professionally offended

    Seems that another group of people who believe that others are offended by words. When a comedian refers to its own characteristics (take your pick), and an audience member says "that is offensive", the meaning kinda gets lost.

    All in all people with too much time on their hands. (Reference workshop...)

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