China labels USA 'Empire of hacking' based on old Wikileaks dumps

The National Computer Virus Emergency Response Center of China and local infosec outfit 360 Total Security have conducted an investigation called "The Matrix" that found the CIA conducts offensive cyber ops, and labelled the United States an "Empire of Hacking". The two orgs have been good enough to publish the first part of …

[jake]

China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

:"China's Communist Party often points out that challenging the legitimacy of governments is a big no-no."

Except in the case of Russia invading Ukraine, of course. Or their own probable impending invasion of Taiwan.

Fucking hypocrites ... not that I would expect anything else from a party run by a bear of very little brain.

[Potemkine!]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

Fucking hypocrites

This comment applies well to quite all the States when it is about spying.

[Cav]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

"This comment applies well to quite all the States when it is about spying." I take it you are the same person that writes the instructions that come with cheap Chinese tat...

There is no valid comparison between the US and China, when it comes to their oppression of their citizens. The US hacks to keep track of threats against it. The Chinese hack to keep tabs on anyone that might challenge their control on their population and anyone else that gets in their way.

Whatever the paranoid state, only the very foolish would consider US society and government anything like that of China. Yes, there are flaws in the US, of course, but in China you wouldn't be able to criticize the government at all.

[MOH]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

That's ludicrously naive.

Facebook, Google. Apple, etc have ridiculous amounts of data on a huge proportion of the planet.

With a certified track record of abusing personal data for political/ foreign policy / whatever ends.

And rapidly passing internal laws to shut down criticism of same.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

"Facebook, Google. Apple, etc have ridiculous amounts of data on a huge proportion of the planet."

They are corporations, not the US government, and there is still a difference between the two.

[amanfromMars 1]

Re: Shadowy Arms with Remote Virtual Government Leadership Leverage

"Facebook, Google. Apple, etc have ridiculous amounts of data on a huge proportion of the planet."

They are corporations, not the US government, and there is still a difference between the two. ....... M.V.Lipvig

A difference which immediately starts to rapidly disappears with any exchange of gathered/stored information for defense and intelligence agents to analyse and deem of concern and further deeper interest and possible disruptive and punitive dynamic action/kinetic reaction .... or otherwise.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

"there is still a difference between the two."

*Irrelevant* difference, when government has unlimited and direct access to *everything* the corporations have, even *outside US borders*.

The level of access Chinese military has.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

". The US hacks to keep track of threats against it. "

That's BS. If you actually believe that, you've a very large sack on your head.

It hacks *everyone*, specifially journalists *in USA*. Also members of EU parliament and such. Only difference is what happens *after* hacking: US is a bit more discreet on that.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

Melchett: Great Scott! (stands) Even you know it! Guard! Guard! Bolt all the doors; hammer large pieces of crooked wood against all the windows! This security leak is far worse than we’d imagined!

Darling: So you see, Blackadder, Field Marshal Haig is most anxious to eliminate all these German spies.

Melchett: Filthy Hun weasels fighting their dirty underhand war!

Darling: And, fortunately, one of *our* spies–

Melchett: Splendid fellows, brave heroes, risking life and limb for Blighty!

Darling: …has discovered that the leak is coming from the Field Hospital.

################################

All nations are hypocrites in this respect - what helps me against you is OK, what helps you against me is not. Now, the reason the US spies on its friends is because you supposedly civilized Europeans dragged us into two separate world wars last century. We spy on you to make sure we can step in before you guys drag us into another one. China, on the other hand, spies on you to gain advantage over you. They aim to steal anyhing that isn't nailed down, and plan on having a sale on used nails. They want to take the place of the US as the main world power, but that world will look a lot different than the world under the leadership of the US, and nobody but the Han Chinese will enjoy that world.

[trindflo]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

Hilarious, but you really should have used the joke icon.

[ChoHag]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

> We spy on you to make sure we can step in before you guys drag us into another one.

Could you maybe stop dragging your feet again? Took two years last time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

"supposedly civilized Europeans dragged us into two separate world wars last century"

Some people have *very short* memory, I see. The Japanese didn't do anything, right?

[trindflo]

Re: China says lots of things. Does anyone believe them?

China has a tendency to parse things (and are not unique in this), but I don't think they are being inconsistent with their non-interference line (not that I agree with it). What I think they are saying is that China should not be criticized for murdering Uyghurs, as they are inside China's borders. Similarly, anything China decides to do to Taiwan should not be questioned, as China considers that part of their territory. Of course, China has designated the entire China Sea as their turf, so maybe that applies to the Philippines, Japan, and Australia as well. Which is why I'm saying I don't think China is being inconsistent to support Russia in their contention that Ukraine is in Russia's turf, really just a breakaway republic, and nobody should question Putin's bloody massacre of Ukrainian civilians (while simultaneously getting rid of a lot of violent prisoners).

I think China's view is this respect is reprehensible, but I don't think it is inconsistent. They are being apologists for tyrants, but have been pretty consistent about it.

China may have some sort of point to make in that they didn't start cyber-warfare. The US threw the first cyber espionage at them, China dissected it, made it better, and threw it back once upon a time. That was a long time ago however, and China has been making up for lost time since. China making a complaint like this now is at the very least severely anachronistic.

And in case anyone from the 50 Cent Party is listening in, go chew on Pooh.

[DS999]

"Challenging the legitimacy of governments is a big no no"

Perhaps Pooh Bear should tell his buddy Putin that, as well as his ambassador (or is it now former ambassador?) to France who said that none of the former Soviet states are legitimate countries.

[localzuk]

Pot meet kettle

Not sure any country can go around making these sort of claims without being called a massive hypocrite, especially not China. Questioning government legitimacy is a no-no? So, Taiwan, Tibet? We just don't talk about those then.

And their support for Russia?

Seems like a "do as we say, not as we do" kinda deal.

Their hacking is so prolific as well - their industrial espionage is constant. The amount of secrets they steal and then turn into photocopies of Western technologies is plain to see. Such as the J-20 jet.

This report is obviously just for the home audience, to ensure everyone thinks the US is the big evil.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Pot meet kettle

"The amount of secrets they steal and then turn into photocopies"

Just like NSA is doing. Funny how we find newest Nokia phones manufactured in USA by Motorola (old case, but very real). Industrial spying to steal everything and then give to local companies is the name of the game also in the US.

You can bet they don't find terrorists (bin Laden, in his luxury villa, anyone?) , as that's *not* the reason for spying everyone, it's the excuse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Pot meet kettle

"to ensure everyone thinks the US is the big evil"

It is, there's zero doubt about that. Echelon, remember that? It still runs and it's larger than ever: It literally gets billions yearly from Five Eyes countries.

China is also a big evil but at least it doesn't read my emails, unlike NSA.

[sarusa]

Par for the course

China, Russia, The US Republican party / Trump's arselickers... Every accusation is an admission. Since they're too dumb to actually make up something new, so they just take everything they're doing and accuse someone else of doing it. Now occasionally that's true, but it has zero credibility on its own.

[Casca]

Projecting. One of the things both russia and china is really good at...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Projecting. One of the things both russia and china is really good at..."

You forgot USA. Why?

[Casca]

You are saying that the US is in the same leage as russia and china at projecting? LMAO

[heyrick]

Piss off China.

China, Russia (and nowhere places like Belarus), and Israel. Those are the IP addresses that turn up in my server logs (it's a home dynamic broadband setup using NoIP to point to it) as making the most hack attempts. But the winner by a mile is China. Often the Shenzhen region, wherever that is. I rather imagine there are entire server farms what spend all day every day going through the entire IPv4 address space one by one trying various known hacks. Where happened to the Great Firewall? It seems to be somewhat leaky.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: Piss off China.

The Great Firewall is just for citizens, not the Chinese government.

[Anonymous Coward]

Old news

Didn't some Chinese agency produce pretty much the same report a year or two ago, citing the same 2017 leaks with the same "USA bad!" conclusion? And wasn't there another report that said pretty much the same thing a year or two before that?

For all their hacking acrivities, apparently they haven't been able to find any new evidence of the US's own hacking. Or, more likely, rehashing the old reports was all the effort needed to satisfy the demands of the CCP superiors. Chabuduo.

[Anonymous Coward]

What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

India's Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh. Nepali's Dolakha, Humla, Sindhupalchowk, Sankhuwasabha, Gorkha and Rasuwa districts. Land in Bhutanese. South Vietnamese western islands. Japan's Senkaku Islands. North Korea's Baekdu Mountain and Jiandao. China unilaterally claims 160,000 square kilometers territory of Russia. China also claims its right over a large part of Laos. Chinese claims over Tajikistan territory. parts of Cambodia. China claims all of Mongolia. Taiwan and Tibet!

Never mind the maritime conflicts with Taiwan, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, and Japan

And they are telling the world what?

[MOH]

Re: What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

Panama, Granada, Cuba, Venezuela. Let alone what would be called *soft power" were it not a US or Western European nation

I'm a daftly naive optimist. People are people. Anyone who tries to tell you that a certain nationality/gender/age/favourite Womble/whatever is the "right" one is just selling something.

And it's not for your benefit

[trindflo]

Re: What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

"Panama, Granada, Cuba, Venezuela"

I can't vote you down; you have a point. I'd say there is a bigger picture, so at the risk of sounding like Putin justifying himself, I'll point out:

Panama: Noreiga was in control of a very key transit route, was causing the US a lot of grief, and was being defiant about it.

Grenada: A tiny place of little strategic interest to the US. The US invaded (with a coalition of 6 carribean nations) after a coup established a tyrannical gov't that suspended the constitution and potentially threatened the lives of 600 US medical students.

Cuba: see Cuban Missile Crisis.

Venezuela: where I think you have the best argument. I'm not sure the US needed to mess with Hugo Chávez. However, I think that Chávez cozying up to Fidel Castro (see Cuban Missile Crisis) had a lot to do with it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

"Cuba: see Cuban Missile Crisis."

Which was caused by trade embargo US established because they were friends of Batista. B. wasn't a nice guy. *Much* worse than Castro, despite him not being very nice either.

So BS excuse, US was absolutely hostile against Cuba since day one, in 1959, years before missile crises. Which was also self-inflicted as after trade embargo Castro had only Soviet Union to help. Absolute stupidity from US, from start to end. *Just* because their puppet boy Batista was toppled. Literally a 3-year-child tantrum.

"Panama: Noreiga was in control of a very key transit route, "

So? It was *his* transit route and I don't see any difference between that and Saddam's attack to Kuwait: Attack to steal resources. No other reasons. US could have bribed Noriega any moment, but they decided it's cheaper to invade. What's the difference to Saddam, again?

[ChoHag]

Re: What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

I'm sure the US leadership saw an independent island just off the coast of one of their most invadable states and thought "it is most important that we piss those people off, for generations if possible".

No other concerns, just dicking with people because they can.

> *Just* because their puppet boy Batista was toppled.

3 year old tantrum? Pot, meet kettle. Do you read history or just scan the pictures?

[Casca]

Re: What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

So, who bult the Panama canal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What does China claim of other property. 13 countries.

Noreiga was a CIA prop up, that got sick of the CIA BS, so they went to clean him out. All he wanted before being arrested (for 2 days) was to talk to a reporter and spill the beans. He was silenced. That said, I would rather live in a country that was more of US laws, than Xi/China laws any day. At least in the US you have a chance at a trial - unless you're Noreiga or any other CIA target. I stay small, avoid being a target. meh.

[nijam]

> China's Communist Party often points out that challenging the legitimacy of governments is a big no-no

A bit of an own goal for an organization that owes its very existence to challenging the legitimacy of the preceding Chinese government, surely?

[Claptrap314]

EastAsia

has always been at war with Oceania...

[Version 1.0]

Once upon a time ...

"I have never seen a situation so dismal that a government couldn't make it worse." - Brendan Behan updated

[Kevin McMurtrie]

Stats

https://www.abuseipdb.com/statistics

https://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/networks/

Don't tell me that botnets don't count. They're the minions of hackers and organized crime.

[FlamingDeath]

Mars Attacks

“Can’t we all just get along?”

[jake]

The whataboutism being displayed here is breathtaking.

The subject is China's obviously self-serving pronouncements.

Redirecting this conversation onto other topics does not absolve China's Communist Party of it's abhorrent behavior on the world stage.

[ecofeco]

Well they're not wrong, but...

But it's the wok calling the kettle black.

Two woks don't make a right.

I'll get my coat.