Google to kill Dropcam, Nest Secure hardware next year Owners of Dropcam security cameras and Nest Secure systems have been given an unwelcome deadline from Google: their smart home products will be shut off April 8 next year. Google made the announcement Friday on the Google Nest Community site, where it said point blank that Dropcam and Dropcam Pro devices "will no longer work …
> Why would anyone with half a brain buy anything from Google?
Really, the question is why would with half a brain buy into an ecosystem that requires a server somewhere that could be switched off with no functional continuity option?
These systems are not really interesting to me, but if I was, I would only be interested in self-hosted, open source options.
I guess what you are really paying for is the internet-hosting options with (hopefully) some protection from hackers but as we have seen, they are often flawed and porous.
They even have a link on the home page for reporting "Security Vulnerabilities" - https://www.home-assistant.io/security/
To suggest stuff like this that's appropriate for Reg readers. But the average person will only consider something they can buy at places like Walmart or Amazon that's entirely plug and play. They don't want to read a website to figure out what to download or where to go to get a "packaged solution" (which could suffer the same orphaned support if they go out of business) They certainly don't want to have to configure anything. If the products aren't available at places they buy their other electronics from, and aren't something they've heard of, it is not something they will consider or even know exists.
What needs to happen IMHO is that "smart home" products (at least the bigger ones with a more capable CPU like Alexa or Homepod) need to have a built in server that all other IoT devices will communicate with so the communication is local and is the only device which needs to communicate outside the home. Everything else talks only to that one "master" device, even for getting software updates. That way if the worst happens and it gets orphaned or becomes too old to receive updates and can't get a new cert or whatever you have only one device to replace rather than your entire home security solution, or your entire home automation solution, or your entire wireless speaker solution, etc. But by never touching the internet themselves those devices can't be p0wned unless the Alexa/Homepod/whatever that's in charge of your home setup is p0wned. I would suggest wireless routers as the IDEAL place for this, but too many people (at least in the US) get theirs from their ISP which doesn't make it a good candidate for this role - but a consumer OEM router sure they could/should support this as well.
It would be nice if someone can arm twist the "Matter" consortium the IoT world is all gravitating towards to mandate this, or at the very least make provisions for it.
it would have to be one level downstream from the ISP router as e.g. Comcast will lobotomize a customer owned router. But that then brings the entire configuration issue back as now you potentially get to deal with dueling Wifi and DHCP services. If something like this comes to be, my bet is it will be the ISP's game.You know, for a monthly fee...
-> To suggest stuff like this that's appropriate for Reg readers. But the average person will only consider something they can buy at places like Walmart or Amazon that's entirely plug and play.
Amen unfortunately. If it is not convenient they will not get any customers. Not just "loose" customers but not even get them in the first place.
"Really, the question is why would with half a brain buy into an ecosystem that requires a server somewhere that could be switched off with no functional continuity option?"
This is becoming more and more common, even for devices and software that should function perfectly well without connection to a server. Switch the device on and it won't function until it's called home. That behaviour that security services find so suspicious when Huawei do it.
What I find bizarre is that when companies switch off servers they are puzzled that customers complain and don't want to buy a replacement device from them.
Look at the dates from the announcements to EOL and compare that with other manufacturers and you'll see Google has a reasonable record in this area. I've seen a lot of kit lose support after less than two years, even faster if the company was bought.
Most of this stuff should be considered toy or hobbyist anyway.
Better than average ≠ "reasonable".
Sure, I wouldn't touch this crap with a bargepole. But consumers bought it in good faith, and discontinuing support after only a few years is a dick move. If Google are slightly less horrible than other vendors, that's hardly to their credit.
I think the question can be broadened to "Why would anyone buy any of this smart shit, at all?". It's just unnecessary shiny crap which nobody really needs.
And before anyone suggests devices for disabled people (remote light controls, etc), such things have been available for that market for years and unlike "smart" home devices are generally designed to last more than six months and are standalone, with no requirement to report into the mothership every five minutes...
"I think the question can be broadened to "Why would anyone buy any of this smart shit, at all?". It's just unnecessary shiny crap which nobody really needs."
Unfortunately the entirety of late capitalism will collapse if not enough people buy shiny crap that they don't need. And besides it's human nature to buy pointless shiny crap, whenever I hear stories of magpies collecting shiny crap I think "no, that's people you're thinking of". What's really needed is regulation that this shit continues to be supported for a fixed period of time after it is sold. And the the guaranteed support period should be clearly displayed on the packaging.
This shit is the ultimate in built in obsolescence.
Not only that, but require support for a minimum number of years after the last one is sold, or buy them all back at the highest manufacturer's recommended price ever listed for them, along with a refund for installation costs if professionally installed. E-waste is a huge problem, right?
I said the same thing. Begrudgingly bought a Hive because seemingly all pre-existing "LCD" thermostats required four and a half days and a purely silent room to reprogram and I wanted to be able to boost heating on the way home at random times. I've loved it and it's been incredible, even if I do still have the old one in the loft in case I have to throw it back on the wall in a moment of pure "tin foil hat".
Then I got a Bosch washing machine with connection. I no longer have to try to understand the ancient Sanskrit language of washing programs, and instead can easily set a finish time on my phone for a load, which it then easily works to despite variable cycle times due to load weight.
Now I'm debating their ovens so I can be on the way home and set it going and have it ready to cook as I get through the door, or know when it's at temp despite being elsewhere in the house. I'd like a video doorbell that I can use as an additional feed for my CCTV whilst appearing to be at home when parcel-clowns decide to take my package to the opposite end of the county rather than leave it behind the shed.
I get it. I'm careful with what I choose, and I know no system is perfect but they are on a separate VLAN and can only poke about with each other so aren't going to be a pivot point for my home.
"Then I got a Bosch washing machine with connection. I no longer have to try to understand the ancient Sanskrit language of washing programs, and instead can easily set a finish time on my phone for a load, which it then easily works to despite variable cycle times due to load weight."
Well maybe I've never encountered an advanced washing machine, but really not sure how 'smart' ones have made it simpler! As nobody has yet invented one which loads itself you still have to go it to load it, then it's just a case of turning the dial or pressing the buttons to set the program. Yes, the time can vary depending on the weight in it but once you've used it for a few weeks you soon get a good idea of how the times work out in practice. Many of them also allow you to delay the start by a specified number of hours. I really don't need to able to set it using a smartphone, nor would that be any quicker than turning the dial and pressing the 'go' button!
Oddly enough, washing machines, dryers and ovens, despite often coming with "connected features" these days exhorting the "convenience" or being able to control them remotely, still come with warnings not to operate them unattended due to fire risk. Of course, that warning is "dark patterned" into all the other safety advice and warnings that most people never read because they really don't want you to see the hypocrisy of a warning telling you not to do something used as a major marketing hook.
The safety warnings are mandated by Government usually and any fireman will tell you exactly the same, having almost certainly attended fires caused by those unattended appliances.
I concur. A close friend (fireman) is fine with the washing machine but I'd not leave a tumble dryer unattended. I do note the machine cited above *forces* me to hit the app-connect button on the front and then gives 10 mins for me to configure so it's not like I can choose to kick it off whilst outside home lest I schedule it. I expect the oven will behave the same?
"I do note the machine cited above *forces* me to hit the app-connect button on the front and then gives 10 mins for me to configure so it's not like I can choose to kick it off whilst outside home lest I schedule it."
Soooo... the reason you wanted it, to be able to start it while driving (I'm sorry officer, I didn't see the people in the crosswalk OR the red light as I was on the phone talking to my clothes dryer) won't work as you can't control it from the phone without pushing a button? AND you post to tech site, presumably do technical work of some sort, yet can't work out what buttons to push on a standard home appliance that any preteen or grandmother can figure out?
Something just doesn't add up.
All these acquisitions, takeovers, eliminations, and forced upgrades-which-frequently-have-worse-T&Cs-than-the-original-deals seem like nothing but a shell game to bedazzle and confuse the marks out of their money.
10~20~30-Euro grift repeated x 10M+ times adds up to substantial takeage.
This sounds familiar. It's just like the SageTV home DVR system that I used happily for a couple years. They sold very nice little fanless set-top boxes which worked with a server that you ran on a Linux or Windows machine (it didn't even need to be a dedicated machine). And the set-top boxes came with nice multi-function remotes. IIRC, "Lifetime" schedule info was included. Well, "lifetime" didn't turn out to be very long. Google bought SageTV and promptly pulled the plug on sales and development. A year or so later, all support and schedule info also stopped. They eventually open-sourced the software — but there are lots of choices for DVR software (some of it better than the Sage server). It was the set-top boxes that really mattered, and they were history.
I guess you never had to deal with ADT then, because they have a well deserved reputation of being shit (both their kit and their services).
The simple reason these companies rent out their solutions is because they can make a lot more $$$ by squeezing customers monthly instead just selling some kit for a one-off price.
If you believe the higher costs would translate to anything approaching better service then you're dreaming.
ADT is owned by Google, per the article, so any experience with them prior to that acquisition is unlikely to predict future performance.
I've used some ADT systems in commercial settings, and they weren't horrible, but their reputation in the physical-security research community doesn't seem to be very good. I've read a few discussions of bypassing their security systems, and of the willingness of their operators to believe anyone who picks up the phone and tells them it's a false alarm.
Mostly my impression of ADT is that their fearmongering advertisements are both obnoxious and a signal that they live on marketing, not product quality. Any firm that plays the "woman and children in peril" card (oh no! no man around to save them!) is off my consideration list forever.
"ADT is owned by Google, per the article, so any experience with them prior to that acquisition is unlikely to predict future performance."
The article says that Google bought a 6.6% stake in ADT. Not quite sure how a relatively small shareholding like that means they 'own' the company!
Another demonstration that it isn't a good idea to have a device depending from an external service that can be switch off at any moment, transforming the device in a paperweight at best.
There are plenty of apps easy to use to manage security cameras. I used iSpy for a long time, now I simply use Synology's surveillance station, run directly from the NAS. To be free, be autonomous. Relying on others is wrong.
and "smart home products"..... ROTFL.
Google Duo seems to be alive and well and has become the "Google Meet" application and has been rolled into the contacts application. I think it still provides a degree of near universal support, i.e. it relies on the network provider rather than people being members. Google certainly does have a <a href="https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/a-decade-and-a-half-of-instability-the-history-of-google-messaging-apps/chequered reputation</a> in this area but Hangouts always had rock solid performance for audio and video calls. This compares very favourably to, for example, Microsoft's hamfisted attempts with Lync, Skype and Teams.
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