back to article Tesla Semi, out since December, already facing a recall over brakes

Tesla's electric Semi truck, which has only been cruising highways since December, is facing its first recall over a faulty parking brake. Unlike other issues, this one won't be fixable with an over-the-air update. According to documents published by America's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the fault …

  1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
    Joke

    Nothing will stop the Tesla Semi!

    Not even the brakes...

    1. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
      Go

      Re: Nothing will stop the Tesla Semi!

      So your orders will arrive quicker

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nothing will stop the Tesla Semi!

      Tesla and Semi’s aren’t explicitly mentioned in the US Constitution, so NHTSA Federal Overreach !!

      Thanks SCOTUS.

  2. Orv Silver badge

    Pictures of Tesla semis being towed are all over trucker groups on Facebook. Since Tesla is seen as representing EVs in general this is leading to a lot of "electric trucks will never work" commentary.

    1. Andrew Hodgkinson

      ...which is a shame...

      ...because even in tiny New Zealand, they're looking promising - see for example https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/25/new-breed-of-electric-trucks-put-to-work-on-central-interceptor/ or on a smaller scale, https://www.greengorilla.co.nz/ev-trucks/.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ...which is a shame...

        As far as I can tell, as long as the EV trucks are not made by Tesla they seem to be deemed reliable enough to have companies invest in them.

        Tesla trucks not so much because of the Musk effect: promising lots and delivering pretty much nothing of it. As a matter of fact, even the introduction event itself seemed to have been laced with rather creative interpretations of reality such as the actual load on the truck overtaking another one on a hill..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I've see electric trucks on the road, working fine. I wouldn't have known they were electric if it hadn't been written on them. There were not trying to look space-agey like Tesla's, just regular trucks.

      No matter what their PR spin is, Tesla is not actually a leader in electric trucks.

      1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

        "There were not trying to look space-agey like Tesla's"

        I have to admit, the image of the Tesla truck on the Register's front page does look like a villain's vehicle, more like a demon-possessed truck from a horror movie than you friendly local delivery team. (Maybe I am just a teensy bit paranoid.)

        1. TangoDelta72
          Pirate

          The Tesla Goliath Project

          KITT's nemesis, Goliath! And look, it's got sparks, so "electric"!

    3. jollyboyspecial

      "Tesla trucks not so much because of the Musk effect: promising lots and delivering pretty much nothing of it."

      We've all heard the old adage: Under promise, over deliver

      The Musk version is: Over promise, take the money, don't deliver

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I didn't even know Musk had a semi *cough*

    The only interesting Tesla semi is called Truckla and wasn't built by Tesla.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Tesla could have sold a shit ton of Trucklas round here. A nice antidote to the mega pickups too.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You meant "Utela" I believe. Please try to speak Australian correctly.

      1. imanidiot Silver badge

        The builder of Truckla dubbed it "Truckla" (Simone Giertz). So no, he didn't mean Utela.

  4. Groo The Wanderer Silver badge

    Tesla needs to rebrand as "The Little Company That Couldn't." (TM)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      More "shouldn't" with Musk around. Lesson one of public demos: practice first so you know you're not going to screw up when everyone is watching.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trucked

    Science says that EVs are not great at load carrying or towing over distance.

    Even Lord Musk cannot change these facts.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trucked

      Science says: CITATIONS?

      1. nautica Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Trucked

        "Science says: CITATIONS?"

        Science doesn't ask for citations wherein the conclusions are based on the most rudimentary aspects of physics, and are--as my physics and engineering texts from an earlier era were wont to say--"...obvious to even the most casual observer...".

        The US Patent and Trademark Office does NOT ask for citations re your claims for a spiffy, brand-new, never-before-seen-or-ever-thought-of Perpetual Motion Machine. You do get a nice, cute little red flag in their computer system, though. Best part? No citations needed.

        1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
          Flame

          Re: Trucked

          Here is my citation on the plausibility of Elmo’s truck by Engineering Explained: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvg_i0GE0Vo

          As I’m too stupid to see the obvious flaws in his maths & logic, please explain the issues so I can learn and be a better person.

        2. jgarbo

          Re: Trucked

          Tesla has already pulled 80,000lb load 500 miles and faster than a comparable ICE truck. The "science" (physics) of EV trucks is obvious to a real engineer. (Old Mech Eng here).

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Trucked

            Wait, you're talking about the truck Tesla put together without very obvious ever talking to people who drive one for a living? That cabin has pretty much everything wrong with it that you could come up with because whoever dreamt up the layout has obviously never actually driven one for real.

            1. imanidiot Silver badge

              Re: Trucked

              How practical the truck is to actually use for long haul trucking due to absolute shit design (no surprise there, it's a Tesla) has nothing to do with how practical or usable (B)EV truck is. Especially for short haul (distribution, short distance, trash pickup, etc) it definitely works and many companies are proving that worldwide.

              1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

                Re: Trucked

                The Engineering Explained video I linked to above also mentions that something like 80% of trucks journeys are never loaded to the maximum legal weight for a truck. So sure, a BEV can carry slightly less than a diesel/petrol vehicle, but for many (not all, just many) use cases, that's perfectly fine.

            2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Trucked

              "whoever dreamt up the layout has obviously never actually driven one for real."

              Does this apply to the cabin designers of so many modern cars with multi-level touch screen menus you have *look at* when making changes rather than just reaching out and feeling the button to press or knob to turn without ever taking your eyes off the road? That would explain a lot :-)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Trucked

        https://youtu.be/J0V99iiEJvY SUV/Pickups same as Trucks

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Trucked

        I think Thunderf00t says it best: https://youtu.be/o3dCDNIRM34

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Trucked

          "Tesla did for trucking the same as it did for Twitter" :) :) :)

          Fantastic review.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Trucked

        Science says: CITATIONS?

        Maths.

        One: total carrying capacity

        Max on the road weight = x

        Load capacity is thus x - truck weight.

        Truck weight = frame + engine + fuel. Frame will be the same in both, but [engine + 2000l diesel] is not even a third of [engine + f*cking large battery], so there you go for load capacity.

        Two: range and utility

        Normal range of a diesel truck on a single tank is in the 2000km region. Refuelling time: approx 20 minutes. Availability of fuel: pretty much everywhere.

        Range of Tesla truck: 500 km approx. Recharge time assuming an as yet non-existing supercharger network: 2..4h. Availability of superchargers: good luck finding one. You can also charge it at home, that will take a good week or so.

        I have no mathematical equivalence for usability, but having to move through the cabin just to hand papers out of your window is also costing time. Real truck drivers universally agree that whoever Tesla talked to to design the cabin, it cannot possibly have involved anyone who drives a truck for a living. They got so much wrong it almost feels deliberate.

        You don't need citations when the facts are so obvious even a 5 year old can work them out.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Trucked

          Thank you for providing some numbers we can now cite.

        2. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Trucked

          == Science says that EVs are not great at load carrying or towing over distance.

          = Range of Tesla truck ... whoever Tesla talked

          = You don't need citations when the facts are so obvious even a 5 year old can work them out.

          Or when you want to quietly change the subject from wild claims that *NO* EV is any good to whether just the Tesla EV is any good.

          That's one of the reasons why you cite - to identify what you are going to talk about and stick to it!

        3. abend0c4 Silver badge

          Re: Trucked

          The only snag is that it's the externalities you left out of your equations that's making this stuff necessary - and the calculations are very different when you include them.

          I'd be surprised if we didn't at some point see some sort of hybrid model with catenaries (or similar) on long-distance routes with batteries for the last leg or local distribution. I'm sure there will be lots of constraints, but maths of the form "we could never build a national rail network - do you realise how many steel plants we'd need?" won't be one of them.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trucked

      Damn, better put all those electric locomotives out to pasture with the bumble-bees then.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Trucked

        *Battery EV.

        EVs with an external energy supply like overhead wires or a local diesel generator are pretty good at hauling loads over distance.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trucked

      Depends on the nature of what you mean.

      Electric Rail Locomotives are fantastic at this… but they are plugged into the mains.

  6. ChoHag Silver badge
    FAIL

    Handbrake: Lever, hydrolics, pads. Never fucking fails.

    I know!

    Let's add electronics and a computer!

    1. Andre Carneiro

      Yes, handbrake failures are completely unheard of…

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Sure. but adding a computer will not make old-style failures disappear. It only adds a whole new class of potential failures.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Sure. but adding a computer will not make old-style failures disappear. It only adds a whole new class of potential failures.

          The electronic handbrake does tend to reduce the number of rollaway incidents when people get out of the car and forget to apply it.

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        handbrake failures are completely unheard of…

        On my old Citroen XM, the handbrake [1] was pretty much the only thing that *didn't* fail..

        [1] OK - they called it a 'foot operated parking brake' since it was actually a self-locking foot pedal. But it was connected to the brakes via cable and that cable never stopped working..

    2. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Don't need these newfangled hydraulics that can easily leak and then (gasp) spray lubricant over the bits that you're trying to stop moving. Real parking brakes use cables, but even cables have occasionally been known to snap.

      Also, the brake adjusters/compensators in the hub fail.

      Those are 3 methods of failure that I have personally experienced. I'm certain that there are other ways as well.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I suspect that, if the cables snap, the operator knows it from the suddenly very different feel to the pedal/lever. But electronically-controlled hydraulics? Uh, no thanks, this is a safety system; simpler is better.

      2. DoctorPaul

        1989 BMW owner here, you certainly know when that handbrake goes AWOL. Mind you, the sound of the cable rubbing on the propshaft should have been a clue!

    3. Orv Silver badge

      That's not how the parking brakes on semis work. They use a (theoretically) fail-safe setup where air holds off a spring-loaded brake by applying pressure to a diaphragm. To set the parking brake you release the air from the spring brake chamber. This means any air loss will eventually apply the spring brakes. (To tow a truck with air brakes you have to "cage" the brakes by using a threaded rod to compress the springs.)

      How Tesla managed to screw that up, I can't imagine. It's a simple system that's been around since God was a boy.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        how tesla screwed it up?

        They probably use Bosch parts.

        Am I the only person that read the statement about the supplier?

        1. Orv Silver badge

          Re: how tesla screwed it up?

          Bosch has been doing this forever, too. How did THEY screw it up? And how did Tesla's quality assurance not catch it?

      2. david 12 Silver badge

        I know that when I was a kid, at least some trucks, buses and trains used the obvious not-fail-safe method of positive braking with compressed air.

  7. ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo Silver badge
    Joke

    Unsafe at no speed

    That's an improvement

  8. abetancort

    Lucky Elon

    There aren't that many to recall. Most of them are still in the hands of Tesla and its partners.

  9. bernmeister
    FAIL

    Air leaks.

    I am trying to get my mind round how an air leak prevents an air brake being applied. Are the Tesla brakes not failsafe where inadequate air pressure prevents the brake being released? Or has Tesla redesigned the brake to save on something?

    1. David Hicklin Bronze badge

      Re: Air leaks.

      That was my thoughts as well, watching the Trucking Hell documentary breakdown series here in the UK and the number of times where they have had to manually wind the brakes off because no air was available ........

    2. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Air leaks.

      I don't know, but it's possible that the air leak is from the brakes into the vacuum reservoir, which could then pull enough vacuum to release the brakes.

  10. jollyboyspecial

    There's a damned good reason why a parking brake should be an independent mechanically operated system

    1. david 12 Silver badge

      "Independent mechanical systems" were why trains used to require a brakeman. A 100 years on, the systems are less independent and less mechanical, and we still get a train crash every couple of years where the driver has neglected to operate the independent mechanical system because it had to be operated as an independent mechanical system

  11. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
    Coat

    self-proclaimed "Technoking" Elon Musk

    "Technoking" Elon Musk

    Does that abbreviate to T'oking Elon Musk? You know, to fit into the limited space of a Tweet. Maaaan.

  12. Androgynous Cow Herd

    Braking news...

    "If the parking brakes are not engaged when the driver expects them to be and the driver releases the service brakes, the vehicle may unintentionally move"

    Thank heavens for the FTSB for explaining that...I had always been curious how that worked...

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