back to article This US national lab turned to AI to hunt rogue nukes

Researchers at America's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) are developing machine learning techniques to help the Feds crack down on potentially rogue nuclear weapons. Suffice to say, it's generally illegal for any individual or group to own a nuclear weapon, certainly in the United States. Yes, there are the five …

  1. Omnipresent Bronze badge

    award for

    best headline.

  2. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    Mushroom

    "Suffice to say, it's generally illegal for any individual or group to own a nuclear weapon..."

    You can't drop a line like that without a footnote showing us how to own one legally.

    1. Filippo Silver badge

      Same way as you do anything else legally: become the head of government of a nation, alter local laws to make yourself dictator, start a nuclear program if the nation didn't have one already. A method that, sadly, actually happens.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Trollface

      I'm sure that, with a trip to Putin's Russia and the application of a generous amount of dollars to a local general, you too can have your very own king-sized snowcone maker.

    3. Mike 137 Silver badge

      "generally illegal"

      "You can't drop a line like that without a footnote showing us how to own one legally"

      Yes you can, quite legitimately. In a case such as this 'generally' does not mean 'mostly' it means 'applicable to all', so it's a perfectly reasonable expression in this context.

    4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      "Suffice to say, it's generally illegal for any individual or group to own a nuclear weapon..."

      If you're in the UK it's now illegal to use one - Nuclear Explosions (Prohibition and Inspections) Act 1998

      Although fortunately: (2)Nothing in subsection (1) shall apply to a nuclear weapon explosion carried out in the course of an armed conflict.

      1. Jonathan Richards 1

        Nul law

        I should think that setting off a nuke is pretty much entirely within the definition of an armed conflict. I mean, people don't do blue mushroom clouds for a gender reveal party, afaik.

    5. usariocalve

      There may be some countries that don't have laws about it because it's considered ridiculous. Does Monaco prohibit the possession of nukes by Individuals? Why would they bother to pass that law?

  3. jmch Silver badge

    Officially recognised???

    " there are the five officially recognized nuclear-armed nations – France, Russia, China, the UK, and the US – whose governments have a stash of these devices. "

    Not sure who is the official doing the official recognition, or what "officially recognised" is supposed to mean in this context.

    I believe that it's fairly well known that India, Pakistan and North Korea have functional nuclear weapons, which they have openly tested, and their governments aren't hiding that fact.

    Israel are also generally understood to be a nuclear weapons state although they are deliberately coy about the existence of their nuclear arsenal.

    Neither of the 4 need some certificate from the UN

    1. rg287 Silver badge

      Re: Officially recognised???

      Not sure who is the official doing the official recognition, or what "officially recognised" is supposed to mean in this context.

      Under the NPT, a nuclear-weapon state is one who detonated a nuclear device before 1 Jan 1967 (surprise surprise, the five qualifying nations also happen to be the five permanent members of the UN Security Council). These are the only signatories who can legitimately have nuclear weapons under the treaty because the point of the NPT is to say "we won't develop/test/transfer tech"

      India, Pakistan & Israel are not parties to the NPT. North Korea was, but withdrew in order to pursue its programme. South Sudan also hasn't got around to joining.

      When 190 states are signed up and 5 aren't, that's generally a "consensus view" that you're in or out of the club.

      But in practical terms yes, aside from the 5 NPT members, there are probably 3 additional "competent" nuclear weapon states (by which I mean they have a weapon system they could deploy with some expectation of "success" - not that using nuclear weapons is ever a successful endeavour), plus North Korea who make a big deal about testing a fizzle every now and then but could probably make a mess of Seoul even if the warhead just fizzled out and acted as a dirty bomb.

      1. Vincent Ballard
        Coat

        Re: Officially recognised???

        For completeness, there's the subtlety about Russia being the successor state of the USSR for the purposes of the NPT. The other ex-Soviet states with nuclear warheads (Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus) gave then up in exchange for security guarantees from the permanent members of the Security Council (see: Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Officially recognised???

          Ironically, the memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with US Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance, prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."

          Once again, Russia proved it doesn't honor it's agreements.

          1. 42656e4d203239 Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re: Officially recognised???

            >>Once again, Russia proved it doesn't honor it's agreements.

            Ah Comrade, that's where you are wrong. Ruzzia was existentially threatened by NATO's active advance, against our great nation, using UA as a cover for their Nazi operations. Ruzzia is, therefore, in complete compliance with the treaty.

            1. John PM Chappell

              Re: Officially recognised???

              I think your humour went over the heads of some, comrade. ;)

        2. KayJ

          Re: Officially recognised???

          There's also some European countries which host US bombs and which would (in the event of daddy P having a full on Untergang tantrum) be employed by the air forces of those nations, with roughly the same degree of autonomy (very little) as Belarus has over anything the Russians base there.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Officially recognised???

        South Africa made bombs and then dismantled them

        Japan is reckoned could have them pretty quickly if necessary

        Sweden started building them but stopped when it decided that a kinetic impact Volvo 240 was sufficient

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Officially recognised???

          A 240-series Volvo would make a substantial impact, but a Ford Pinto would make a bigger fireball. (Go U.S.A.!)

        2. Spamolot

          Re: Officially recognised???

          Australia also had a pilot nuke programme back in the 1970s. Disbanded in the 80s but the scientists and research are still around.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Officially recognised???

            Although that was just to deal with spiders in the bath

            1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

              Re: Officially recognised???

              Although that was just to deal with spiders in the bath

              The last thing Australia needs is irradiated mutant spiders running around. They'd have to irradiate the drop bears to deal with them..

            2. Vincent Ballard
              Mushroom

              Re: Officially recognised???

              They also have a fusion programme in case the emus kick off again.

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "helped law enforcement home in on targets and speed up investigations"

    Yikes. How many investigations of this kind are there ?

    Is there that much suspicious radioactive material being sent by snail mail these days ?

    1. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge

      Re: "helped law enforcement home in on targets and speed up investigations"

      Maybe FedEx? "When it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight."

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: "helped law enforcement home in on targets and speed up investigations"

        >Is there that much suspicious radioactive material being sent by snail mail these days ?

        You can use Royal Mail but note that Pu-239 has a half-life of 24K years, which you should take into account when using 2nd class mail

        Also under the Royal Mail Prohibited and Restricted Materials page they do note:

        - UK & International - Allowed with restrictions

        - Surround with cushioning material e.g. bubble wrap.

        - The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.

    2. wub

      Re: "helped law enforcement home in on targets and speed up investigations"

      "Is there that much suspicious radioactive material being sent by snail mail these days ?"

      Well, I hope not, but there are a number of legitimate, non-weapon uses for "nuclear material". I used to use some radioactive materials for analytical purposes when I was a graduate student in molecular biology - sometimes you need a very strong signal, and nothing beats radioactive emissions. But it was never all >that< much compared to a nuclear weapon, and certainly not the right elements.

      But I expect some folks out there can provide stories that may relate to more interesting isotopes, and perhaps in quantities that might surprise the rest of us.

      And yeah, we got ours by snail mail.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: "helped law enforcement home in on targets and speed up investigations"

        There used to be a system involving bicycles and the fleet-of-foot to get very short lived isotopes from the accelerator to the hospital's dept of doing-scary-stuff-to-people.

        Apparently they upgraded to a pneumatic tube running under the campus.

        I love the idea that we have a nuclear air-rifle / pea-shooter

  5. DrBobK

    Gadget - I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds...

    Love the use of the term 'gadget' at the end of the second paragraph. The first plutonium bomb with an implosion design (rather than the simpler but more constrained and less efficient gun design) was referred to as 'the gadget'.

  6. Johnb89

    As long as you pronounce it correctly

    If you pronounce it nuke-yeh-lerr then you aren't allowed to have one, or more. If New-clee-err then its fine.

    That should sort things out.

    1. Jonathan Richards 1

      Re: As long as you pronounce it correctly

      Amen, brother. Similarly, but wildly off-topic, no-one should be allowed to graduate if they believe that the awarding institution at which they have studied is "Younee".

  7. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    Killer Application

    "radioactive material will have a unique microstructure based on the environmental conditions or purity of the source materials at its production facility

    Could they apply the technique to analyse homeopathic remedies

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Killer Application

      Could they apply the technique to analyse homeopathic remedies

      Not much unique microstructure in distiller water..

  8. Jonathan Richards 1
    Headmaster

    Now that the sensible remarks have been made:

    > the techniques allow it to pick up "threats quicker and easier" than before,

    but not to use adverbs correctly.

  9. Bbuckley

    Hey bomb 20, why don't you use a little phenomenology and return to the bomb bay? Um, no. Actually I have discovered I am God. Let there be light.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Analysts look at electron micrograph image and say...

    "Hey, these are pinball machine parts!"

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