back to article Boeing Starliner's 1st crewed trip to the ISS delayed again over battery overheating risk

Boeing's first mission carrying astronauts to the International Space Station aboard its Starliner capsule, scheduled for April, is now delayed until summer due to the risk of overheating batteries. NASA is concerned that the Starliner's lithium-ion batteries could overheat while docked to the ISS. Although executives from the …

  1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    How much money must Boeing be losing with Starliner? Surely it can only be management stubborness that's keeping the Starliner project running? Any sane company would have walked away by now.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Current unanticipated costs total $883M

      Boeing have got paydays for passing milestones and hope to get more when the actually transport (and return) astronauts. Presumably the expected cost of continuing is less than the payments they have yet to receive ($?M for this test flight + $90M * 4 astronauts * 6 flights). To make the economics less simple, Starliner is intended to carry 5: 4 NASA + 1 tourist and Boeing get to sell the tourist seat for whatever rich tourists will pay.

      There is also a theoretical possibility of more flights. The commercial crew program promised SpaceX and Boeing 6 flights each. The plan was to divide up flights beyond those 12 between SpaceX and Boeing. NASA have so far allocated flights up to 2030: 14 to SpaceX and 0 to Boeing. Boeing could theoretically get some pure tourist flights to the ISS and to Blue Origin's Orbital Reef (because Jeff would rather not buy launches from Elon).

      In real life, there is a limited supply of Atlas V rockets to launch Starliner and no more will be built. There are enough reserved for this test flight and the six operational flights. After that, Boeing has to find a new man rated rocket. The obvious choice would be Vulcan. Someone would have to come up with the money to man-rate Vulcan. Boeing could do that by putting up their prices - just like SpaceX did for launches after their first 6 (to include the cost of delays provided by congress reducing the funding for the commercial crew program). The silly choice would be SLS: put another $200M onto the per seat cost and add a year of delay to Artemis for each launch to the ISS and that is before factoring in the cost of another mobile launch platform equipped to supply Starliner.

      In the background to such decisions: NASA have clearly decided they can man rate Starship HLS for a trip from Lunar orbit to the Moon and back. What happens _when_ they decide to man rate it for launches from and landings on Earth? Their choices are either to go with the flow or watch Jared Isaacman's Polaris III orbital party on youtube.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Current unanticipated costs total $883M

        Aren't they due to re-enter the ISS soon?

        If Boeing can stretch out the delays for long enough they will never have to fly and can probably score a big government payment for cancelling the contract

      2. Roj Blake Silver badge

        Re: he silly choice would be SLS

        SLS requires old Shuttle parts which have limited supply, so isn't a viable option because of that as well.

  2. AndrueC Silver badge
    Joke

    Boeing.. Boeing.. Not gone.

    1. b0llchit Silver badge
  3. Dizzy Dwarf

    "... also had to change the battery design ..."

    They reversed the polarity

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: "... also had to change the battery design ..."

      They reversed the polarity

      And crossed the streams..

  4. Dave Pickles
    Flame

    Been here before

    Maybe Boeing copied the battery design they used on the 787. That ended well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_grounding

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: Been here before

      I'm glad to see the same bells rung in someone else's mind.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Been here before

      "If its Boeing, its probably glowing"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Been here before

      and this time they used repurposed Samsung S7 batteries...

  5. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Mushroom

    If I was

    his muskiness, I'd troll the boeing test pilots by offerring them a job flying SpaceX Dragons........

    And to think, Boeing have or are getting paid twice what Spacex were paid for the initial crewed capsule designs.....

    But in all truth.... lets not have it end like the icon

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: If I was

      I think humanity is better off having a few designs for access to space. I also think the US specifically is better off having multiple designs itself. Yes, it's a metric-fuck-tonne of money, but the aerospace pork-barrel is never going to get forged into health or welfare plowshares, that just isn't the way things work in our present order of priorities.

  6. david1024

    From the airline burner/crasher company

    This is the same company that was toasting airliners with poor battery designs that would cook-off and start fires.

    So yeah, they should have 5 extra safety checks as the last couple of things they said 'this is easy to engineer', they nearly killed people... I wouldn't fly anywhere on anything they designed in the last 10 years.

    And that's before we get to the software problems and management issues plaguing them.

  7. ChoHag Silver badge

    Maybe they could fix this with a software patch? Maybe some hack to shuffle load around between the electronics and the main engine to reduce battery wear invisibly?

    They wouldn't even need to tell the pilot if they get it right.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      They wouldn't even need to tell the pilot if they get it right.

      Like they tried with the 737 MAX "Upgrades"?

  8. TSM

    Hold on a second

    > Software bugs in the flight code also had to be checked

    The bugs had to be checked? Shouldn't they have been FIXED?

    (Yes, I understand that bugs can be acceptable in this sort of thing if they have been rigorously analysed, the scope for problems is known, and if necessary appropriate mitigations are put in place. I wouldn't describe this as "checking" the bug, though.)

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Hold on a second

      No they learned a lesson from the Challenger accident.

      The issue of batteries will be mentioned in a PowerPoint slide but in a 3rd level sub-point that everyone ignores.

      But the proceeded means that the ssue has been 'addressed'

  9. batt-geek

    Rather them than me

    With all the reported on-going issues with starliner i'd hate to be an astronaut scheduled to ride that thing; those two 'nauts have got to be thinking "we really got the short straw here!!"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rather them than me

      Didn't one or both of the original two assigned retire early already? Although, to be fair, this thing has overrun by so many years that could just be natural passage of time rather than them "nope!"-ing out

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Rather them than me

        I think it's like a Poul Anderson novel, generations of astronauts live through this project until their distant descendants finally reach the launch

  10. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Butch and Suni

    This will probably not as good as the version with Paul Newman and Robert Redford

    For the youngsters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Cassidy_and_the_Sundance_Kid

  11. jollyboyspecial

    Boeing? Burning batteries.

    Nothing new there then.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rhymes with Dreamliner, which also had battery overheating issues.

  13. Archivist

    Sunni and Butch

    Sounds like a 60's duo.

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