AWS wants to cook its datacenter chips with vegetable oil

Amazon is moving from diesel to hydrotreated vegetable oil (HVO) to fuel the backup power generators for its datacenters in Europe, with sites in Ireland and Sweden the first to make the switch. The move is part of a strategy to reduce the carbon footprint of its datacenter operations. The megacorp told us today that its …

[jake]

T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

These generators are for BACKUP power, not primary power.

They will be used how often, exactly, in the lifespan of the data center? So how many "carbons" are really going to be saved?

And how many "carbons" is it going to take to implement the idea?

It seems to me that the greens are incapable of calculating TCO ... as long as it reduces "carbons" it's good, everything else must be bad. Even when reducing "carbons" actually costs more in "carbons" than it reduces.

For backup power, Propane is a far, far better alternative ... and well proven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

Propane and Propane accessories.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

Propane

I was getting flashbacks to Propain - one of my early codeine-based painkillers..

[cyberdemon]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

I'm not sure, but I think it's quite hard to convert an old Diesel generator to run on Propane, since they don't have spark plugs.

Veg oil on the other hand lets them greenwash their operation without any modifications to the Diesel engine bar a few ECU parameters.

[jake]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

The propane comment was an over-all comment on backup power, not the article specifically, based on my own rather extensive research on the subject.

Using HVO as a diesel substitute doesn't make any useful difference in "carbons" released with this intended use. Worse, as the article makes clear, many commercially produced HVOs use a large percentage of the planet-killing Palm Oil, making it worse than useless.

[cyberdemon]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

I know Propane is better for backup since it doesn't "go off" like Oil or Petrol and it doesn't coat the engine with soot or acid residue, I know that so-called "vegetable oil" is usually rainforest-destroying Palm Oil, and I know that this move from AWS as per TFA is nothing but pure greenwash, as mentioned in my post :P

Calm down and have a beer.

[Snake]

Re: propane is better for backup

Propane contains a lower BTU potential than liquid fuels like diesel or oils. If converted, if that is even possible for industrial diesel generators, the genset would generate a lower kWh output, which may cause significant load problems.

[Cris E]

Re: propane is better for backup

If the problem was performance then potential BTUs would be a relevant point. But the issue is utterly an image thing so expect it all to be painted with the fanciest green bio-wash, regardless of source, cost or effectiveness. It is just backup, so it only has to be good enough.

[Marcelo Rodrigues]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

"They will be used how often, exactly, in the lifespan of the data center? So how many "carbons" are really going to be saved?"

I remmember one datacenter I used in the past.

They had four generators, but needed two.

In order to verify they worked, and to keep them warm, they switched over every night, for about two hours.

And the two generators used where never the same two from last night.

So. How often they used? Two generators, every night, for two hours.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

In order to verify they worked, and to keep them warm, they switched over every night

One place I worked they span up the generators once a month for about 5 minutes to test them.

Then the mains went down and the generators span up as designed then, about 30 minutes later, span down as they ran out of fuel.

The massive diesel tank under the work carpark had a leak a little bit above the reserve line and so, had over the months, lost almost all the diesel, just leaving enough for about 30 minutes of operation.

Opps.

The monthly test schedule promptly (once the leak was mended and the tank refilled) amended to involve checking the level of fuel in the tank.. I wouldn't want to be a developer buying that site - the whole area must be thoroughly contaminated by diesel, even 25 years later.

[John H Woods]

Re: T?his whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

This whole greenwashing thing is getting sillier and sillier.

FTFY.

[brotherelf]

Re: This whole "green" thing is getting sillier and sillier.

Recently a friend from the New England area proudly spread the word about a newly built residential building that has battery-only backup, no diesel.

(Mind you, same friend didn't seem too worried about going to Singapore to watch the F1 Grand Prix.)

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

>They will be used how often, exactly, in the lifespan of the data center?

More importantly, they are going to stand around unused for how long?

One thing lots of people found out about bio-diesel in Hurricane Sandy is that bio-diesel that sits around in a tank for years turns back into plants. It's green and certainly organic, but green and gunky and rather more organic than your fuel filters and pumps and injectors would like.

[jake]

"More importantly, they are going to stand around unused for how long?"

Actually, most HVOs built from used cooking oil seem to last longer in storage than diesel, although not by much.

However, when they turn gunky[0], they become very, very gunky fairly quickly.

[0] A perfectly cromulant word, which should be used more often in articles like this.

[Roger Greenwood]

If you want your diesel backup generator to be reliable, then you test it frequently. For a typical modern turbo diesel that means every month, for an hour, on load, just like your car. Proper data centres will have a dummy load switched in/connected for this purpose in one form or another, hospitals maybe not as they aren't so important (cynical, moi?). I like to think the staff running this routine with veg oil will have it on the schedule as "frying tonight" (with Keneth Williams voice).

As that is only a small amount of fuel used, the bulk storage tank will need to be refreshed to stop it, as pointed out, going all "gunky". Get your diesel polished regularly.

[HappyDog]

Frying tonight

Indeed https://youtu.be/kHnifVTSFEo

My favourite Carry On film. Scared the bejaysus out of me as a 9 year old. Still got a bit of the old adrenaline rush watching the clip.

Have a beer. Calm the nerves

[Ideasource]

Infected biodiesel..

Did they forget to add the stabilizers?

All diesel including biodiesel is prone to infection if not stabilized with an appropriate additive.

[rcxb]

Flow batteries

The sooner some single design/chemistry of flow battery pulls ahead of the competitors, the sooner generators can become a thing of the past. Higher efficiency than generators, quiet, and the fuel can be generated (or rather: recharged) at the nearest other similar flow battery site that has a stable supply of electrical power, so transported over much shorter distances.