back to article Dual Tesla lawsuits pull Elon Musk into right-to-repair war

Tesla is facing a fresh pair of proposed class action lawsuits, and not due to vehicle safety: this time it's all about the rights, or lack thereof, that Tesla owners have to repair their vehicles on their own terms. The dual cases, filed Tuesday [PDF] and Wednesday [PDF] of this week, both allege that Tesla is guilty of …

  1. Snake Silver badge
    Facepalm

    About time

    I find it amazing how many Americans are so brainwashed in their corporatism that they either take ages to awaken to their own plight...or simply outright swallow the greed.

    Tesla's policies have always violated the Sherman and Magnuson-Moss Acts. It has been visible to anyone with a brain, a desire to understand both the law and their rights, from the beginning.

    But it has taken, what, YEARS for someone to finally sue? (note you can't say "Then why didn't *you*?", as I don't own a Tesla and therefore to not have the legal standing required in U.S. courts to challenge their policies).

    ...

    Just goes to show you how beaten-down the average American Joe has become. Corporations say "Jump!", and the average [idiot] now say "How high, Master??"

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: About time

      Bringing a case is expensive, time consuming, costs a lot of money and takes years of work.

      So it's not surprising it takes a long time before they happen.

      The problem is partially because the state won't bring them, but mostly because lawyers are really expensive.

      1. blackcat Silver badge

        Re: About time

        "The problem is partially because the state won't bring them"

        Of course they won't because then one of their money supplies will dry up.

        This is the state and the corporations working hand in hand to profit eachother.

    2. devin3782

      Re: About time

      Didn't you mean:

      Corporations say "Jump!", and the average [idiot] now say "How much, Master??"

    3. aerogems Silver badge

      Re: About time

      America: Land of the socialized costs and privatized profits.

      Quite frankly, multiple companies could be in violation of those laws really. Think about how Apple has a lot of custom design hardware and they've literally programmed the software to detect third party parts and harass/shame the user. And not picking on Apple, because almost every laptop or AIO unit is just an amalgamation of custom hardware and the only places you can get it is either direct from the OEM or buying a unit on ebay that is broken in some way that doesn't affect what you need to replace.

    4. Bryan W

      Re: About time

      Most Americans don't own Teslas. Toyota is our true master.

      1. bazza Silver badge

        Re: About time

        And as Toyotas don't ever break, the spares issue never arises!

        1. Cynical Pie

          Re: About time

          And even when they do you can go to any garage rather than being forced to go to a Toyota Dealership

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: About time

            "And even when they do you can go to any garage rather than being forced to go to a Toyota Dealership"

            Which is exactly what this lawsuit is all about...Tesla are simply not allowing anyone else to supply OEM parts or to allow non-Tesla franchised servicing depts.

            Of course, Tesla may claim they are a special case and that the EV vehicles need properly trained technicians to carry out the work or that some/most OEM parts may not be high quality. But I would suspect they will need to prove this, so the lawyers must be rubbing their hands with glee right now.

            1. blackcat Silver badge

              Re: About time

              Tesla are selling 'driving as a service'. And being a bit more 'tin foil hat', by keeping all the work 'in house' they can cover up some of the more major issues with the cars.

              There does seem to be a major build quality issue with EVs. Teslas are not well made, same with the Rivian pickups. The panel and interior fit is crap. Chevy has had several recalls on the bolt, Kia had a major battery issue (not sure it made it to recall) and even BMW if memory serves me.

              Yes there have been some major recalls for ICE vehicles. The big Honda airbag recall for example. But these didn't usually impact day to day normal driving.

              1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
                WTF?

                Re: About time

                Chevy has had several recalls on the bolt.

                Can you be a bit more specific on which bolt is at fault (Clearly its not the steering wheel restraining bolt that Tesla & Nissan have issues with).

                1. blackcat Silver badge

                  Re: About time

                  The one where they catch fire

                  https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/recall-all-chevy-bolt-vehicles-fire-risk

              2. DevOpsTimothyC

                Re: About time

                If they were selling a driving as a service with a clear the car does not belong to you and will remain the property of Tesla then they might have been able to get away with it.

                The problem is that they are selling their cars rather than only leasing their cars and so the first sale doctrine applies as well as all other laws and concepts that apply to cars. The automotive industry (in america) have already gone through the whole OEM servicing and parts vs generic servicing and parts lawsuits and the oem parts lost that one.

                1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                  Re: About time

                  Perhaps they are selling cars, but what about the technology and software or the Musk himself ?

                  Are Tesla owners really buyin ga car or are they buying Musk ?

        2. keith_w

          Re: About time

          Not true! We just had to replace the bearings on the front driver side wheel on my wife's 2006, 265,000Km/164,041mi Toyota Corolla! Of course we went to the non-Toyota mechanic we have been using for over 20 years.

    5. REGriff

      Re: About time

      I am going to have to call you out on this remark:

      Corporations say "Jump!", and the average [idiot] now say "How high, Master??"

      Have you seen the average American lately? Jumping is no longer an option.

      Otherwise, pint for you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: About time

        There has to be actual loss and harm to sue. So they have to wait until there is enogh dollars worth of harm, that you can pay for the legal cost

    6. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

      Re: About time

      Or maybe the longer they wait to file, the more members in the class. Then it's more likely to qualify as antitrust, there are more/better examples for deposition, more total pain for defendant, more total profit for lawyers.

    7. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: About time

      One has to wonder why people love Musk when he tries again and again to screw them really hard.

    8. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: About time

      > Just goes to show you how beaten-down the average American Joe has become. Corporations say "Jump!", and the average [idiot] now say "How high, Master??"

      Well one only needs to look at American media and Hollywood. Corporate leadership is always praised and honoured like they are gods who make the sun shine, while the average worker is nothing but a parasite.

      Just watch a cop show, often the victim is the rich guy and the criminal is the poor guy, the roles are rarely reversed.

  2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Coat

    "it's all about the rights, or lack thereof, that Tesla owners have to repair their vehicles on their own terms."

    Even God (feel free to substitute your preferred choice of deity) allows humans to repair their body on their own terms/take the said body to a Doctor/Surgeon/Traditional Healer/Homeopathy practitioner etc. Then again, Musk is not God

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      He and his fans think he is, though, and I don't think that will change any time soon, Twitter twat or not.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      The comparison is incorrect.

      No company has a copyright on any part of the human body - yet.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        No company has a copyright on any part of the human body

        Wasn't there some hoo-ha recently about a (US obviously) company trying to put copyright on specific human gene sequences? My poor gin-soaked brain can't remember..

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          There were over 4000 patents granted on the human genome until the US Supreme Court said no.

          Could be a different result now since Trump tried to stuff the court with people like him.

      2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        American corporations with their medical prices seem to own the concept of Life(tm) in America.

  3. Potemkine! Silver badge
    1. VerySadGeek

      Not sure I would trust that article. It says ti have been updated but then say "What’s alarming is that the Model S is Tesla’s newest model, yet such glaring issues are still common." So I am not sure how up to date the figures are.

      1. bazza Silver badge

        The Model S got revised recently, didn't it? So that would make it their newest model.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One of the reasons I didn't buy a Tesla

    The nearest service centre to me is over an hour away and stuck in the middle of an industrial estate (Almost next to the council recycling centre) that has no public transport nearby. Getting there by public transport would take 2 busses and 3 different trains. Why do I mention that? Zero loan cars for customers.

    I damaged the front of my I-Pace. I took it to a local body shop that is withing walking distance and got it repaired. Getting the replacement parts took days not months. If I had needed a loan car for the time the Jag was in the shop there was one available but I chose to walk to/from the shop. I could have taken the bus if I could not be bothered to walk. The shop won't touch Tesla's because of the issues and time to get even basic body parts. The owner said that getting parts for a Lambo or Ferrari was easier than for a Tesla.

    Talk about chalk and cheese.

    1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: One of the reasons I didn't buy a Tesla

      Someone I know in France, who lives in Paris suburbs was asked to take delivery of his Tesla in Strasbourg, 500 km away, instead of the delivery hub located near his town...

      Perhaps the maintenance would have to be done in that case in Berlin?

  5. localzuk

    John Deer

    This seems a lot like the John Deer case - giant company that tried to monopolise the only way to service and repair vehicles bought for significant sums of money, to the customer's detriment.

    John Deer has changed tact, so hopefully Tesla will be forced to do so as well.

    1. blackcat Silver badge

      Re: John Deer

      "John Deer has changed tact, so hopefully Tesla will be forced to do so as well."

      We shall see. The anti right to repair lobby is VERY powerful and very rich. Just look at what happened in NY where the bill was ready to be signed by the gov and she let the lobbyists basically re-write it for her. Similar story with previous attempts at right to repair for agricultural equipment. The group that was claiming to support farmers turned out to be in the pay of the big companies.

      Back in the 90's Germany (or more accurately BMW, Merc, VAG) tried to get all after market car parts banned from the EU. The backlash was HUGE and they gave up.

      1. jollyboyspecial

        Re: John Deer

        In the EU this has been tried multiple times. And failed.

        The UK SMMT (society of motor manufacturers and traders) also tried and failed.

        Following Brexit I am concerned that they may try again and succeed.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: John Deer

      John Deer has changed tact

      Changed tack, as in which direction the bow faces as you sail against the wind. John Deere has no understanding of tact.

    3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: John Deer

      "John Deer has changed tact"

      I think you meant "tack", but tact sort of works too :-)

      Tact: skill and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues.

      Tack: When referring to a change in direction, position, or course of action, the correct phrase is to change tack.

  6. Sherrie Ludwig

    El Reg still a UK publication?

    I am a USAian, but have been skimming this publication for some years, at least for the articles I can understand. I appreciate the distinctly right-pondian flavo(u)r of this environment. Maybe I was skimming too fast, but I was half-way through the Tesla article before I realized this lawsuit was filed in the USA, not Britain. Is The Register now officially on the same continent as I? Or please make sure all the journalistic bases are covered: who, what, when why and WHERE, please.

    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: El Reg still a UK publication?

      Short answer no.

      Mish-mash of $ & £ (In the same story), units, random explanation's of UK terms & phrases dropped in, the loss of Paris & Dabbsy & many many comments pointing all of this out.

      1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: El Reg still a UK publication?

        I agree, to simplify and unify everything should be in € / EUR, and otherwise using the International System of Units

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: El Reg still a UK publication?

          You would abolish the Reg Standards Soviet? Heretic!

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