back to article Silicon supply chain players plot exodus from China in wake of ASML's exit

The Biden Administration's efforts to starve China's domestic semiconductor industry have reached an inflection point as allied nations join the cause. However, it's not just Chinese firms finding themselves in the crossfire. Reuters reports that officials from a dozen companies which supply ASML with components are now …

  1. veti Silver badge

    Oh, great

    Force the Chinese into a corner, and systematically shut down every incentive for them to play nice...

    Yep, don't see how that can go wrong.

    1. Binraider Silver badge

      Re: Oh, great

      I don't need to re-list the full catalogue of the CCPs political history. It's well known, unless you were stuck in, and have never left China.

      The pacific land grab and sabre rattling for a much larger land grab have been escalating significantly in recent years. So, if incentives to play nice lead to that outcome, then perhaps it's no longer time to play nice.

      China's "new" middle class expanded rapidly through the early 2000's, and the scale of the housing crisis underway right now is of economy breaking (200M+ repossessions mooted) amongst that group.

      The new "haves" want their cut, and know squarely who to point finger at for why they are being cut off. CCP propaganda or not, a lot of them are western educated and know who and what is ruling the roost, and why they are being cut off.

      Of course, we have only ourselves to blame for being addicted to exploiting the cheap labour; and shipping off vast quantities of machine tools and production lines. (Not least the former Longbridge facility of MG-Rover).

      1. Zolko Silver badge

        Re: Oh, great

        I don't need to re-list the full catalogue of the CCPs political history

        yes, better not, you'd ridicule yourselves when comparing the same list with US wars across the globe during the past 1/2 century. Not to mention slavery and extermination of America's natives the centuries before.

        1. Binraider Silver badge

          Re: Oh, great

          Whataboutism! Yay! Justification for anything.

          Sod off.

          1. Zolko Silver badge

            Re: Oh, great

            Whataboutism

            I think that Godwin points should be extended to that word too, it is used as a strawman when no rational argument is available. Those using it seem to think it's some sort of magic trump-card that will win them any discussion.

            1. Binraider Silver badge

              Re: Oh, great

              You're the one that invoked it's use. Keep digging that hole.

        2. ckm5

          Re: Oh, great

          Difference is that the US is not in denial about it's past, present or future.

  2. CJatCTi
    Facepalm

    Not just Chips

    Once you have the technology in China it becomes Chinese technology and they don't need you. When I was a teenager, Dowty Mining was proud of all the pit props they sold to China, then overnight the trade stopped. The Chinese knew all they needed to know to make pit props identical to those made by Dowty, didn't care about intellectual property and stopped buying them. Dowty mining now longer exists.

    Yes the Chinese will develop their own IT kit and in some areas it is bound to be better than ours, but why help them beat us?

    The Chinese Empire is taking over huge pares of the world with the its belt and road initiative, poor counties are borrowing money from China to enable China to extract their minerals and then sell then Chinse goods, and when the country can’t pay they take control.

    Further west they just buy infrastructural control (Piraeus harbour in Athens ), or build it (Nuclear Reactors in the UK), or just take it (islands in the south China sea)

    We need to thank Mr. Putin for making the west wake up, and start to take back control of our future.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Same: Railways, Cars, Aerospace, Telecoms

      Their playbook is

      1.) "if you want access to our huge market, you must develop+produce in China"

      2.) Chinese workers, engineers, scientists and beancounters are being trained by the foreign company developing+producing in China

      3.) Said workers will move on to a Chinese company and take all the knowledge from 2. with them

      4.) With massive State Capital the Chinese company will undercut any foreign competition

      5.) Foreign company will fold under "free market competition" from China, which is in FACT a state-funded and state-controlled enterprise.

      6.) All the knowledge gained will be used to design and build powerful weapons. From stealth fighters to advanced anti-ship missiles.

      7.) Having grown rich and powerful, the Han Chinese then turn to bullying their neighbours and play irredentism.

      Happened to Siemens, Alcatel-Alstom and the Japanese train companies. Will happen to Airbus, Volkswagen, Daimler, BMW, BASF, if they continue to be naive.

      1. Zolko Silver badge

        Re: Same: Railways, Cars, Aerospace, Telecoms

        since this has been known for a very long time, why take step #1 ? This is where lies the problem, all subsequent steps are logical from China's perspective. I think it was Marx who said that communism will hang the capitalist with the rope that they've sold themselves. Or similar.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Thanks for Confirmation

          China is an aggressive mercantilist power, hell-bent on making war as soon as an opportunity arises.

          They aim for dominance, not peaceful cooperation.

          I do not want to be dominated by a communist tyranny.

      2. ml2023

        Re: Same: Railways, Cars, Aerospace, Telecoms

        LOL. the playbook is the same for many countries.... India, Indonesia, Brazil, etc. countries with large internal markets all have the same playbook. & decades ago, same with US before it became an industrial powerhouse years ago... forcing (or stealing) know how transfer from Britain, Germany, France, Japan, etc. Ooops... in fact, US is doing this today with "Inflation Reduction" Act and Chip Act.... oh, you want US market? build chip and ev battery here in US. seem like US has the exact same playbook.

        US is forcing TSMC to come train fab workers? oops... cultural fit is a challenge... & people not well educated (do you know tsmc fab workers are a bunch of master and phD STEM graduates?), work ethics (TSMC Taiwan workers work until midnight and weekends).... no wonder TSMC Chairman Morris Chang said US is naive and think building fabs in US will be competitive and sustainable.

        Seem like you have summarized that China state-driven system will outrun free market capitalism.

        1. I.E. an Erich Hartmann

          FALSE

          Brazil cooperates with Europe, Japan, SK and the US such that each nation/geography produces and sells what she can do best. Germany sells cars. Brazil midsized airplanes. US advanced semiconductors and other IT products. Britain sells high end aircraft engines. France sells food and large airplanes. Japan sells watches and cars with the best price/perfomance ratio you can imagine. South Korea sells high end semiconductors and phones. Each one of these nations buy the other's products and respect the other's intellectual property. None of them is at war with the other. No threats of war against each other.

          We are not perfect and we had horrible things going on in the past. But that does not mean it is now China's turn to repeat those mistakes.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Same: Railways, Cars, Aerospace, Telecoms

        China never innovates, they only steal. The real intellectual elite of China fled to Taiwan decades ago. The CCP is a gangster state.

    2. fxkeh

      Re: Not just Chips

      We absolutely do not need to thank Mr Putin for anything.

      We "beat" our competitors by making better products than them, rather than enacting trade restrictions under the guise of national security and then strong arming other countries to do the same.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        War

        China threatens war on Taiwan. That is the core reason we must cut off technology and materials transfer.

        Why are they so belligerent ?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          War On India, too

          China has proven to be a dangerous player on the international scene.

          They invoke all kind of "justice" and "fairness" B.S. and then turn around and be belligerent.

      2. DaBurt

        Re: Not just Chips

        I think you may have missed the point.

        China is not "beating" competitors by making better products, but rather by stealing intellectual property.

        So yes, national security is part of the picture since China continues to arm itself with weapons they do not have the home-grown capability to develop.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not just Chips

      Hmmm crispy, glowing and then chilled. Great future we are leaving our children...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dear Japan

    Apparently you are very much scared. You even need the (smallish) German Luftwaffe to feel secure:

    https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/organisation/luftwaffe/aktuelles/besuch-in-japan-kroent-rapid-pacific-2022-5507982

    I can understand that. China is an industrial superpower and more or less at war with every nation around her.

    What I cannot understand is that you are at the same time keen to ship them the latest technology !

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen

    Deutscher Freund

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    US-Euro Economic-Strategic Idiocy

    China now emits 30% of the world's CO2 Production. From this follows:

    -cheapest place to produce steel

    -cheapest place to produce pure silicon

    -cheapest place to produce high quality chemicals

    From that, in turn, follows:

    -largest warship building program on the planet

    -dominating worldwide telecoms equipment market, with obvious national security risks

    At the same time, Euro and US Greenies* actively destroy coal- and uranium-based energy production in Europe and the US. This will only move more industry to the Chicoms and make them feel even more powerful. The wind/Solar/H2 economy is totally unproven nonsense. It is already driving BASF(the largest chemicals company) to China.

    How effing idiotic can the White Man be ?

    *many of whom are former Maoists

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Schießbaumwolle

      Germany/Rheinmetall has been sourcing cotton fibers for ammunition production from China (yeah, cotton still needed in 2023!).

      After the Ukraine war, "mysteriously" the Chinese company stopped delivering the cotton.

      This is the strategic reality and the Euro* peoples better smarten up very quickly.

      *including those living on the American continent

    2. ml2023

      Re: US-Euro Economic-Strategic Idiocy

      Not arguing much about the US-Euro issues you outlined.... but IMHO China emits 30% of CO2 today, but (1) much of the CO2 emission is attributed to Western consumption and producing goods for Western profit-driven companies. (2) much of accumulated CO2 is from US and the West... over 25% "accumluated" CO2 in our atmosphere that's leading to global warming is coming from US alone despite US is 4% of world population. (3) Per capita CO2 emission from China is half of US. Despite manufacturing goods for the rest of the world, China per capita CO2 is much less than others. (4) China has invested more in renewable energy than any single country or even the whole EU countries combined in the past several years... & much much more than US. this is why China is leading in EV battery, solar, etc. You can google and find all these stats.

      China largest warship building program in planet is true.... but it's simply its manufacturing capability and it's still in catch up mode. US annual military budget is still more than all the next 9 countries combined. Yes combined. US spend 3.5% of GDP on military while China spends 1.2% GDP.... & China GDP is still 3/4 size of US GDP. US has been pushing NATO, Japan, etc. to get military spend to 2% and up... so China spending 1.2% is actually much than others. Have to recognize that China is definitely more efficient / cost effective in building warships, missiles and of course much lower salary and maintenance cost.

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