Biden: I want standard EV chargers made in America by 2024 – get on it

The Biden-Harris Administration announced rules on Wednesday requiring the American automotive industry to build interoperable electric vehicle chargers that must be manufactured within the country – using US-sourced materials – by 2024.  The policy is part of President Biden's goal to create a network of 500,000 chargers …

[KSM-AZ]

CCS DC cables are awful

I own an EV. Generally charge at home. Traveling ocasionally, I have to charge with these sorry ccs cables. It was 30F outside and I had to wrestle that BOA constrictor into the socket. I'm stunned I did't crack the plastic. My friend has a Tesla. The tesla cable is vastly superior. I would convert my socket on my Niro EV to a tesla socket if I could.

[Gene Cash]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

Oh hell yeah. Even on my motorcycle, which has about as accessible a port as you can get, I feel like I should be in a sideshow tent with a big poster showing "The Famous Battlin' Boa Boy!"

[Gene Cash]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

I hear in Yeeeurope they gotta carry their cables with them!

Boy, that was a shock (ha!) the first time I saw that on YouTube.

Guy rolls up to a charger, and I'm like "where the hell are the cables?"

[Bl4ckD0g]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

Only on destination chargers, i.e. AC and is limited to 22kw just like at home, and yes for those supplies you generally bring your level 2 cable, and the clue is in the name. No such thing on DC chargers in Europe. CCS2 is just fine.

And technically, they aren't chargers they are supply sockets, the charger is in the vehicle ;)

[John Robson]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

AC "chargers" are just suuplies

DC chargers are half a charger, with the brains still in the car, but the voltage conversions and current regulation are all done off board.

[BadgerJJ]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

"No such thing on DC chargers in Europe."

That is untrue. There are many DC chargers throughout Europe, with CCS becoming the standard, but there are many Chademo ones out there too.

Regarding carrying your own cables, there is a mix of AC chargers in Europe, some with & some without tethered cables.

No one carries a DC charger cable in Europe - all the charge points have tethered outlets.

[John Robson]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

I think you misread the comment - there is no such thing as having to bring your own cable to a DC charger in Europe.

[Bl4ckD0g]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

CCS2 is used in the ROW by all none Tesla manufacturers. There is a huge global infrastructure with those and it works well. I think the US would be very silly to invent yet another standard in what is currently a very small market. But nothing would surprise me, just look at the laws passed for the all singing dancing headlights that are now allowed in the US, but for whatever reason they had to be different again so the manufacturers still can't use what was already there.

[John Robson]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

To be fair CCS1 is pretty widespread in the US - basically for everything other than Tesla.

Tesla use CCS2 in the EU, so it shouldn't be too hard to use CCS1 in the US - just add an extra cable to the charger (they already sell a dongle for existing vehicles).

[blackcat]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

"I think the US would be very silly to invent yet another standard"

Would not put it past them. They can't even use the standard imperial measurements!

The US is the most protectionist, crony and corrupt place in the western world. I'm really quite surprised by the 'made in 'murica' rhetoric coming from the Biden admin. For sure if this had been Trump saying the US needs a standard charger and that the parts must come from the USA the usual suspects would be frothing at the mouth to explain how having standards is bad and getting parts from far off lands is good.

[Piro]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

To be fair with imperial, the US didn't change their measurements, we did. They're just using them as they were pre-independance.

[John Robson]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

Nope - they are using metric with a bunch of conversion factors now... all their measurements are now defined in terms of the metre/kilogram (stupidest SI unit ever)/etc

[Paul Crawford]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

Same as the UK has done for year, much to the surprise of those wanting to return to old units!

[HereIAmJH]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

The current 'Made in America' push is the result of COVID and Russia's war in Ukraine. Where would we get our cheap goods if we had a war with China?

All the supply chain problems during COVID started business looking for alternative ways to structure their business. Moving your supplier is expensive, so they looked to the government to help pay for it. We are a corporate welfare nation. Trickle down, don't pee on me and tell me it's raining. The fact that China took so long to open back up kept the pain up long enough for businesses to implement alternatives. (Tariffs, OTOH, are a money grab. The consumer either switches to a new supplier or pays the tariffs. When there are no alternatives at any price, you just pay)

And then the war opened all kinds of national security concerns. Governments don't mind getting critical resources from other nations. It lets them expand their influence and play with their war toys. But when dependence shifts the power in the relationship they want alternatives. The push towards electric cars is a shot at OPEC. Energy costs are a large component of inflation. The Great Unwashed is unhappy about the price of groceries. And it's really Made Somewhere Other Than China. But that sounds racist and it's a long running wet dream of the masses to bring manufacturing jobs back home. Not going to happen, it will either be fully automated or 'assembled' from imported parts. But the gov't (regardless or political party) loves taking credit for creating new jobs, even when the Fed's fiscal policy is to eliminate jobs.

[blackcat]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

That is what happened with NAFTA, made in Mexico, final assembly mostly in the US.

I used to work for a US based company and the requirements for 'Made in 'murica' have always been strange.

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

Luckily, Mexico is in America.

[HereIAmJH]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

"I think the US would be very silly to invent yet another standard in what is currently a very small market."

Except that there should be a standard, patent free charging port. Whether that is the cable, or a port on the charger and you supply your own cable. I didn't read it as a requirement to create a new charging port/cable. More a requirement to have a standard that all chargers support. With $7.5b in tax payer dollars being invested, I would want it to support as many different brands as possible. And none of them are going to want to pay royalties to a competitor.

I watched a YouTuber that bought an electric F150. He drove from one public charger to the next trying to find one that was compatible and working. Another YouTuber with a Rivian ran into the same problem trying to travel down the East Coast to Florida. That isn't the kind of hassle the average person is going to want to deal with. People start getting stranded and they'll stop buying the cars.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: CCS DC cables are awful

Yup. I don't care if we use our own, adopt the current European standard or what, so long as I (if I ever buy one) as an EV driver can pull into any station for a charge and plug in. Adapting an existing higher standard would be best. When I took my car to Germany as a young troop, I was able to fill the tank from any European gas station, and I'd want to do the same with an EV.

Also, there needs to be a standard protocol for the car to talk to the charging station to negotiate the charge voltage and amperage, so as to not have to worry about multiple cable heads for multiple stations. Any charger should be able to charge any car regardless of the voltage the car needs, and the car should be able to accept what the charger can provide, in this case if the car needs 800V but the charger can only do 500V, the car needs to be able to accept 500V.

[jezza99]

Of course chargers must be standard

Having EV chargers which only charge a particular brand of vehicle is like requiring Ford and Toyota owners to use different, brand specific petrol (gas) stations.

[Gene Cash]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

Well 1) Tesla owners would pee their pants for something exclusive like that and

2) the Tesla stuff was designed waaaay-back-when at the dawn of EVs when it was a tech free-for-all.

Remember the shitshow that was ChaDeMo? There were a couple others that were even worse, but fortunately didn't get widely adopted.

[John Robson]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

ChaDeMo isn't all bad... it has long supported bidirectional charging, which is a key technology moving forward.

[deive]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

ChaDeMo is the new Betamax.

[Pascal Monett]

For a shitshow, it sure seems to be a successful one.

[Phil O'Sophical]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

Or needing a different app to start and pay with every supplier?

[alain williams]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

Why need an app at all? When I buy petrol I use a credit card: simple, easy, robust and preserves my privacy. Why does the supplier need to know my email address ?

[MyffyW]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

I agree - would much prefer to just swipe my contactless card.

Charger companies want the app because then they can sell you a charge plan - just like all those successful "£50 per week petrol plans" you have never seen Shell, Esso etc. selling.

And they also want the app because then they can monetise your data - just like all loyalty cards Shell, Esso etc. do try to foist on you.

Some things change, some things stay the same.

[HereIAmJH]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

would much prefer to just swipe my contactless card.

Not contactless. I need all my tinfoil for my hat.

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

"I use a credit card: simple, easy, robust and preserves my privacy"

Really?

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

More so than some data-harvesting smartphone app created by bottom-of-the-barrel developers whose idea of security is TLS with certificate verification turned off.

Credit cards are a hell of a lot more robust than anything that uses a smartphone, too. Smartphones are fragile.

Paying with an app is terrible for the consumer. There are few advantages and glaring disadvantages.

[John Robson]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

Yep - but someone had to do the first charging standard... and Tesla had wide rollout before any other standard was, well, standard.

I quite like the tesla connector in some ways, having dual use pins isn't a bad idea - but it doesn't allow for three phase charging as far as I am aware (not that many cars avail themselves of three phase anyway)

[HereAndGone]

3-Phase?

Superchargers are DC, there are no phases

[John Robson]

Re: 3-Phase?

But the connector is the same as their AC charger connector... they are dual use pins.

And they can only do single phase AC, since there are only two pins.

[VicMortimer]

Re: 3-Phase?

J1772 doesn't do 3 phase either. It does single phase 120V or split-phase 240V.

Add two pins and you get CCS.

And it's non-proprietary, everything but Tesla uses it. Elmo can suck it, he's about to get told to ditch the proprietary connector in the US just like Europe already did.

[John Robson]

Re: 3-Phase?

So it's probably a wash in the US... Type2 can do three phase, and there are a number of cars (not as many as there maybe should be) which can use three phase AC for substantially faster charging without the expense of a DC charger.

It's not all that useful at home (relatively few domestic properties have three phase supplies), but would be really good for many destination chargers - particularly for relatively short stay destinations - making it three times more useful to plug in whilst shopping for example.

[JDX]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

It was only very recently everyone stopped having proprietary chargers for small electrical devices, in favour of micro-USB and then USB-C. iPhones still don't.

In the world of power tools, every manufacturer has proprietary charging tech.

It will happen inevitably but will take time, this seems a case where government intervention is sensible. Get the manufacturers to figure out the implementation, but you want to get it right if it's going to be around for decades, and that requires a lot of thought.

Opening up their chargers might make Tesla a de facto standard of course.

[VicMortimer]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

It won't. Every other electric car in the US uses J1772/CCS (or will once the Leaf is gone in a couple years,it's the last CHAdeMO car).

[John Robson]

Re: Of course chargers must be standard

Except that in Japan ChaDeMo is still common, in the EU Type2 is the standard, and in China they do their own thing as well.

It's not like it's difficult to provide different options on the same car, heck Tesla already does it.

[Old Used Programmer]

Somehow...

Somehow, I don't think USB-C is going to win this one.

[simonlb]

Re: Somehow...

Possibly not, but there's probably a few 'genuine' USB-C to EV charging cables already available on AliExpress if you look hard enough.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Somehow...

I find myself idly wondering what sort of voltage they would need to run at to delivery 350kW over a 24AWG wire, and how far back you'd want to stand when one was plugged one in.

[Chris Roberts]

Re: Somehow...

Should be fine at 40 - 100kV, but as you say best not to get too close while live.

[zuckzuckgo]

Re: Somehow...

At 100kV you could eliminate the cable and connector altogether. Charging your car could be like animating Frankenstein in a lightning storm. But I wouldn't play video games in the car while charging.

[captain veg]

Re: Somehow...

You probably wouldn't need a wire at all, just ionised air. But you'd want a Thunderbolt connector.

-A.

[AVee]

Re: Somehow...

Just drive your Tesla to the nearest Tesla coil. It may not be smart, but it would sure look cool.

That, or build an electric DeLorean and just use lightning.

[Filippo]

Good

All EVs need to use the same cable. This doesn't mean that everyone needs to lug around cables that are appropriate to charge a truck in 15 minutes. Appropriate smart bits can perform negotiation to figure out the highest power supported by the charge point, the cable, and the car. This needs to be a legal requirement. If the EU and the US would kindly sort it out, the rest of the world would follow.

In an ideal world, the smart bits would also sort out billing automatically. Plug in, the car provides the charge point with a cc preauthorization; pull out, the charge point executes the transaction. I know, I know, but one can dream.

But, at least, the idiocy of rolling up to a charge point and finding out it's the wrong type needs to end. Now. The further we keep installing screwed up infrastructure, the harder it will be to tear it up and do it properly.

[Peter2]

Re: Good

Why does it even need an "app" to start with?

I don't need an "app" to fill up with fuel. I just turn up, eyeup the prices on arrival, give an authorisation on my credit/debit card and then fill up with fuel, accept or decline the offer of a receipt and then drive off.

I'm honestly bemused as to why EV's are any different because there is no logical reason why it should be any different.

[mark l 2]

Re: Good

Without having owned or operated an EV im not sure if its required to have an app to charge them at charging stations, but it wouldn't suprise me if you did need one. Because in todays world people expect you to download an app for everything, and the app will probably updated itself several times per month with no apparent extract functionality added with each update.

It won't be long off the situation where if you forget to take your phone, your battery is depleted, you run out of mobile data or you just choose not to have a smart phone you won't be able to do common tasks because you won't have access to the require app.

[Steve Foster]

Re: Good

It shouldn't, and the better charging networks do support contactless payment.

But "the modern way" is to shove everything into bloomin' smartphone apps, so that tends to be the default action now. This has superceded the previous "web first" idiocy, and will no doubt be followed in a few years by something else equally hair-brained.

If petrol forecourts were just being invented, they would be implemented along the same lines.

[HereAndGone]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

This seems to be a point of confusion.

Tesla's don't! Pull up, plugin, done. No App, no credit card reader with security and failure issues, no smart phone required. It just works. Tesla vehicles comunicate with the charger and automatically handle accounting and charge characteristics, you don't have to do anything.

The App issue comes about only with NON-Teslas. If the vehicle is incapable of communicating with the charger then an alternate mechanism has to be established to handle "Billing" and "Vehicle Charge Characteristics". An App is the easiest way to handle that for half-wit vehicles.

[alain williams]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

An App is the easiest way to handle that for half-wit vehicles.

A credit card is even easier -- FTFY

What if the car is not yours, eg a hire car ? You do not want to give the car your credit card details - you then have to remember to remove them when you give the car back.

Even if it was my car: I would not want to give it my credit card info.

[HereAndGone]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

"A credit card is even easier -- FTFY"

No, it's not. Broken and compromised credit card readers are a major problem, so too your individual card becoming worn and unreliable to read. On top of that is the possible need to provide particular vehicle charging characteristics. Touch pad/panels are another major reliability issue for chargers. An App avoids all those issues.

"... You do not want to give the car your credit card details ..."

That's not how things work. The credit card or billing information is not in the car, it's in a back end server somewhere. When you hire a car (a Tesla in this case), all of the fueling (charging) costs go the the hire company account and you pay it when you return the car. You don't have to remove your card from the car, it never had it in the first place.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

"your individual card becoming worn and unreliable to read."

Are you still "swiping" mag-stripe cards or something? I've never had a modern chip'n'PIN card fail to read other than rare occasions when maybe a quick wipe of the contacts is needed. Mine have never reached the stage where I'd call it unreliable before the replacement/expiry date.

[VicMortimer]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

You know we don't do PIN for credit cards in the US, right?

They're just for debit cards.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

Really? Thanks, I didn't know that. When are the US credit card companies going to declare the arrival of the 21st century? :-)

Considering the early adoption of credit and charge cards in the US, it seems odd not to advance with the times. Here in right-pondia, chip and PIN was introduced for both debit and credit cards at the same time nearly 20 years ago. Contactless was introduced for credit cards only 4 or 5 years later and the debit cards a couple years after that.

Do you still have to sign after the swipe and have the signature checked by the seller? That extra time consuming process was one of the reasons for switching to chip and PIN. It's faster so you can serve customers quicker, reduce queuing length and time and make more money.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

While US credit cards are chip-and-sign rather than chip-and-PIN, they are nearly all EMV,¹ so the comment regarding the reliability of the chip contacts still applies. Once in a great while I get a "chip reader malfunction" error from a terminal, but reinserting fixes it.

¹Some store credit cards are holdouts. My Lowe's card is not EMV, for example – and, yeah, the mag stripe often fails to be read, because it also doesn't have an expiration date and so doesn't get replaced frequently. That's Lowe's, half-assing it since 1921. (But using the card gives me a 5% discount, which has added up to quite a lot over the years.)

[I could be a dog really]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

The credit card or billing information is not in the car, it's in a back end server somewhere.

That's no better.

When I go to fill up with petrol (gasoline for our US friends) I get to choose which of my cards I use - there have been occasions when the one I usually use won't work (because I don't have enough in the account when there's too much month at the end of the money). That's a problem unless I'm expected to open some app, log into an account, change the stored card details, buy my petrol, and remember to change the details back again.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Why Does it Need an App

Tesla's don't! Pull up, plugin, done. No App, no credit card reader with security and failure issues, no smart phone required. It just works. Tesla vehicles comunicate with the charger and automatically handle accounting and charge characteristics, you don't have to do anything.

Aww, it's so cute to see the kids enjoying being surveiled. Who needs privacy, or indeed any control over any of your data, when you have convenience?

[John Robson]

Re: Good

Well the US currently has two standards for DC charging (Tesla and CCS1), and two for AC charging (Tesla and Type1).

Tesla ship a dongle to allow their vehicles to use CCS1... so it should be easy enough to add CCS1 cables to tesla stations.

You only need to bring your own cable to a destination (low power) charger, this prevents cables clogging up pavements and getting damaged when not in use. All DC chargers come with a tethered cable, some of which are even liquid cooled. This is because they operate at a much higher voltage and current, and are therefore pretty rugged, and reasonably heavy.

The car already does the "what speed can I charge at" bit - the DC "charger" is really only the power delivery half of a charger, the brains are in the car already.

The AC charger is literally a supply (single or three phase) with a bit of communication to say "don't pull more than my circuit can handle" to the charger on the car.

Automatic billing is such an obvious miss - you only need to have the VIN or registration as an ID, and billing can happen easily based on that (generally by login, but if not paid inside 24 hours then via the DVLA or local equivalent).

Most charge stations have multiple connectors available, with one or more "chargers" having a ChaDeMo and a CCS cable attached, just pick a unit with your connector and charge. Much like petrol pumps have both diesel and petrol heads - and one of those won't fit in the other (though you can get it wrong the other way round)

[HereAndGone]

Re: Good

"Automatic billing is such an obvious miss - you only need to have the VIN or registration as an ID, and billing can happen easily based on that ..."

Tesla already does that, the car automatically supples the VIN to the charger.

[John Robson]

Re: Good

Indeed - it's still an obvious miss from the CCS standards (and the Type1/2 AC standards as well)

They've minimised the data transfer to make it "simple", ignoring the massive benefit from having an integrated system.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Good

From reading, it seems China has the largest EV take up by far, well above the EU who in turn are twice as far ahead of the USA. China also seems to have about 65% of the worlds public EV chargers, ie more than half the worlds EV chargers are in China and something like 40% are "fast" chargers, a far higher proportion than anywhere else. It's also the fastest growing EV market and by far the fastest growth in EV charge points. Based on that, clearly the Chinese chargers should be the "standard" :-)

note: See icon ---------------->

[chivo243]

What about a converter?

Half way through my first cuppa, and I thought there are tons converters for lots of stuff. Just make a converter! Then in my half sleep stupor, I had a scene from Brazil flash into my brain... the first time we see behind Sam's apartment walls, and I thought no adaptors please. Make a standard!

Icon wiping sleep from eyes!

[Jellied Eel]

Re: What about a converter?

Just make a converter! Then in my half sleep stupor, I had a scene from Brazil flash into my brain...

You don't need Brazil, you just need a Rich!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosf7CeSGyA

In which Rich Rebuilds drives a Rivian on a 12hr road trip, and highlights the full 'EV experience'. Multiple apps, multiple charging networks, finding the charger, finding a working charger. So standardising EV charging seems like a very good idea. It's also strange that it was allowed to develop into such a mess in the first place rather than making EV charging as simple as filling up with diesel or petrol. Then again, I guess EV ownership comes with a built-in sobriety test. If it's this hard to manage while sober, maybe it'll discourage drunk driving.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: What about a converter?

It's only simple now because the formula for pumping fluid in a tank has been around for centuries, and even now it's still possible to get wrong. A gasoline pump will easily fit into a diesel filler. Electric charging can be made foolproof* by using a standard plug type and requiring a standard negotiation protocol between the car and charger. And no, I do not want the car to be the keeper of the card number.

*And truly, it will be the first foolproof thing man ever invented, for if the fool jacks with it the fool quickly becomes an oily smudge next to the charging station.

[John Robson]

Re: What about a converter?

Car doesn't need to keep a card number - just need to be able to send an invoice based on the VIN/registration.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of the Black Mirror episode Nosedive

There's a bit in that episode where a woman pulls in to charge a car and can't because the plug and socket don't match. One is a giant Lightning connector and the other is a giant Micro USB.

[Steve Foster]

Re: Reminds me of the Black Mirror episode Nosedive

"giant micro USB" - isn't that macro USB?

[RichardMills]

Mandatory xkcd reference

https://xkcd.com/927/

[Boozearmada]

Good old 'Dementia Joe" fucking clown he is. Bring back Trump

[VicMortimer]

I'll be so glad when Drumpf is finally off to prison.

Looks like the Georgia indictment is probably happening within a month or so. Hopefully they realize he's a flight risk and hold him until the trial, don't want him defecting to Russia.

[I miss PL/1]

You like starving babies, sky high inflation and worst market in decades too? Your have to be a Democrat.

[anonymous boring coward]

Trump is more like that "scary rapist clown" type.

[I miss PL/1]

From what we know of the Biden's I'd say they are scarier.

[anonymous boring coward]

Did the Bidens try to kill off USA with an insurrection yet?

[Johnb89]

Get the USB or HDMI standards people to sort this

The USB and HDMI people have managed to make 'same name, not interoperable' cables and connectors, repeatedly, for a number of years now. I'm sure if they had a crack at this they could solve traffic congestion in a single try.

[DevOpsTimothyC]

Re: Get the USB or HDMI standards people to sort this

Oh the joy of yet more proprietary cables and connectors where even the use of some pins have even more proprietary restrictions.

I'll stick to display port

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Get the USB or HDMI standards people to sort this

So? RS232 and similar were doing that decades before USB or HDMI were even invented :-)

Ditto BNC plugs. Network? Video? If video, is it R, G, B, Hsync, Vsync, Sync on Composite? Plug it in and hope, wonder if the coloured cables actually match the function.

And let's not even go NEAR the many and varied DIN plugs used for so many and varied functions, often wired differently even for the same function because of different manufactures kit.

[DS999]

I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

Sure, we need charging stations on major highways for people making long trips, but most charging will happen at home. That's fine for people who have a garage, but there are a lot of people who live in apartments, or have more cars than they have garage bays. We need to at least start thinking about solutions to help spur adoption there.

There's so much focus on chargers on the road because people are too locked into thinking about the way it works today with gas stations. If everyone had a way to charge their car where it is parked each night, that's where 98% of charging would happen. The overwhelming majority of places that sell gasoline today would not refit with charging stations, they would probably continue as convenience stores - just look at how many people park in front, fuel is far from the only reason people go there.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

"have more cars than they have garage bays."

Hey, if the kids want their own EVs, THEY can get up at stupid'o'clock in the morning and to the cars and swap over the charging cable if they want to be able to go anywhere. And woe betide them if they unplug parents cars before they are properly charged!! With all those charge points, it won't be being grounding they need to worry about. It's dads charger based "cattle prod adaptor"

[Emir Al Weeq]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

If you're going to hit them with a mains powered cattle-prod, being grounded is something they do need to worry about.

(We call it "earthed" on this side of the pond.)

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

"(We call it "earthed" on this side of the pond.)"

I know we do but you don't punish your kids by earthing them so the pun doesn't work :-)

And yes, I know, "grounding" isn't really a right-pondian punishment term either, it's a left-pondian import :-)

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

Yes, and that's why we need these standards, including upping the voltage to get power in faster. A higher voltage gets the watts in with less amps, so the cable isn't huge. Not all charging can happen at home, particularly with dense housing. Right now apartment dwellers can fill a gas tank up the street, and can park on the street in any parking spot. I can't think of anyone that will want to risk recharging their car outside on the street where anyone wanting to cause trouble can go up and down the street after dark disconnecting cars. Wake up and go to work, and your car is dead. I also figure it'll take about 5 minutes for someone to come up with a way of stealing a charge from a car while it's being charged.

[legless82]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

Harder than you'd think to do that. I can't speak for the others, but certainly CCS connectors can't be removed when they're in use - they're electronically locked at both ends.

[I could be a dog really]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

I'm sure someone will work out how to get round that before long. I've heard of people who, when they find the owner has taken steps to prevent something being nicked, will simply destroy it out of spite. I look forward to hearing of someone going down the street and chopping the cables.

Before you come back and suggest Darwinism will take care of that, I don't think so (except for the real dummies). Every charger will have earth leakage protection - so a pin with a resistor to earth stuck into the cable will almost certainly cause it to trip off (making it safe to cut without a big bang), and after that, I assume the connectors will unlock anyway. Besides, for some, getting a big flash and bang as they cut each cable will be part of the thrill - and the axe should survive long enough to do a few cables.

[Ghostman]

Re: I'm starting to think this is the wrong approach

There's so much focus on chargers on the road because people are too locked into thinking about the way it works today with gas stations. If everyone had a way to charge their car where it is parked each night, that's where 98% of charging would happen. The overwhelming majority of places that sell gasoline today would not refit with charging stations, they would probably continue as convenience stores - just look at how many people park in front, fuel is far from the only reason people go there.

You forget several things:

1) Not everyone has a garage. In urban areas there are more apartment dwellers than home owners. Is the company that owns the apartments going to supply a charging station at each parking spot?

2) Many of the local filling stations are putting in two and sometimes three charging stations, along with expanding the "deli" area. Stop in, get a drink, a pastry, look at the local hotel/motel coupon books, walk to the Waffle House/Denny's/Burger King/Chik Filet and fill up your own tank while using the charging station.

3) Pump credit card readers are all the rage here in the USA. Slide in your card, fill the tank/charge the battery, bill is sent to your credit card processor (Visa, Master Card, Discover, Shell, BP, whichever). No need for the vehicle to know anything about your finances. No need to register your vehicle with the charging station.

4) Around Chicago and other very urban areas the theft of copper wire is an everyday occurrence. People complain about pulling up to charging stations and all they find is an inch, if that much, of the cable protruding from the unit.

5) Unplugging a vehicle charging and plugging in your own. Check YouTube for the videos. One instance a fellow (in England) was in his front room. He saw a Toyota like his pull into his driveway, the driver get out, unplug his (the owners') vehicle, plug in his, and start to walk away. The owner stopped him and told him to unplug the car, plug his back in, and leave his driveway. The guy then told him to bug off as it would only take a few minutes to charge his car long enough to get home. Ended up the man kept walking away. The owner unplugged the car and plugged his back in, called the local police. He stood for a moment at the charger port, but I don't know if he did anything to it since you couldn't see if he did. Eventually the guy did come back, to an empty parking spot.

[I miss PL/1]

I bet it killed Brandon to sign a deal with the largest EV supplier in the world but you have to give Musk his due. His SuperCharger network is the main reason his cars are being bought while other EV makers struggle with the Charge America network.

This is basically akin to making Apple chargers charge Android phones because so many people are having problems with Android chargers.

[anonymous boring coward]

"This is basically akin to making Apple chargers charge Android phones because so many people are having problems with Android chargers."

No it's not. Those are simple 5V USB chargers. I use Apple chargers to do all sorts of USB charging and running stuff.

[anonymous boring coward]

I was stating a fact, or two. You downvote facts?

[DS999]

It is so funny to see Trumpers in love with Musk now. Hope you don't hold any Tesla stock, the more he cozies up to Trump the more all the people who have been buying Teslas up til now start looking to buy their next EV from ANYONE else!

The right may cheer him on now but far fewer of them are interesting in buying EVs versus Biden voters...can't see anyone wearing camo going fishing or hunting rolling up in a Cybertruck. His buddies would give themselves a hernia from laughing at him so hard!