Indian official reveals 'plan' to build a national mobile OS

India's government has reportedly teamed with academia and startups to create its own mobile operating system dubbed IndOS, in the name of competition. Local outlet Business Standard revealed the initiative, quoting a senior government official as saying "India is one of the largest mobile device markets in the globe. Our …

[sarusa]

'build'

If India's going to 'build' a national OS, it'll be the same way China did - take Linux, customize it, and pretend they built it from scratch as an incredible tour de force of their national technical prowess. Since this is mobile they'll start with Android instead, but same deal. India's government lacks the resources and willpower to build an OS from scratch* - and as you pointed out, even if they did nobody would want it.

* Certain companies like Tata might be able to if they wanted to sink hundreds of millions of dollars and a decade into it, but they already know that's a fool's game.

[Oglethorpe]

Re: 'build'

You forgot fill it with spyware that would make a Stasi agent blush. The Indian government, back in the day, somehow managed to threaten Blackberry into breaking their encryption; the amount of monitoring they'll do with full control will be mind-boggling.

[BOFH in Training]

Re: 'build'

Nah they will pay infosys or one of the other usual suspects to modify / port android and then try to push it onto the few local brands* manfacturing phones within India.

It will probably bomb and then be forgotten about some time later.

* Yes they do have some homegrown phone brands. Example : https://khatabook.com/blog/indian-mobile-company/

[spireite]

I'm not sure it's going to get the reaction it wants....

Surely, you'd be wanting to curry flavour with Big Tech

[cookieMonster]

Re: I'm not sure it's going to get the reaction it wants....

“Curry”, very good

[spireite]

Re: I'm not sure it's going to get the reaction it wants....

I'm here all week....

[Dan 55]

Why build a new one?

Sailfish is already here, it just needs to be ported to whatever device they're interested in.

[Mockup1974]

It's just going to be another Android ROM isn't it?

[doublelayer]

That's quite likely. Even when Huawei wanted to indicate that they've invented a completely new OS, with a Harmony-specific app format and everything, it turned out to be Android with the labels in the UI but nothing else filed off. Their new app format turned out to be a different extension and a few changes to make the files incompatible. India's attempt, if it ever starts*, will also recognize that there are a lot of Android smartphones in India and that you need app compatibility with those. They'll consider this problem and come up with three solutions:

1. Convince every developer to port to their new OS. This will probably be the government's position, and either some person will inform them that it's never going to happen or just change the specs so they don't have to try to make it happen.

2. Make their own custom OS with an Android compatibility manager, perhaps building it off the mobile Linux projects and something like Waydroid. This would be my favorite because we could take chunks of their stuff and include it in the existing mobile Linuxes, which are not very good right now but I'd like to see improve. It is also a lot of work for an OS the people won't buy, so I doubt they're going to waste their time doing it.

3. Why reinvent the wheel? Just use Android and call it something else. You wouldn't be the first, second, or ninth group to do that. Nobody would know except the technical writers who would write a full description of the OS a week after the first beta was leaked, but only other tech people will read that.

* I think what is most likely is that India makes a lot of noise about doing this and contacts a few places to begin work on their new project. A few months from now, they drop it after being told what actually doing it would cost and what the product would be like, change the spec so that someone makes a mobile app for something they want, call it by the same name, and then try not to mention it again.

[Zolko]

1984

Even Microsoft's impressive Windows Phone died, despite Redmond putting literally billions of dollars behind the OS and buying Nokia to ensure a supply of handsets

that's rewriting of history in its finest. Nokia DID have a mobile OS which was based on Linux, and a very good handset for it (the N9 if I remember right), but Microsoft cancelled it. It can even be suggested that Microsoft bought Nokia to ensure its upcoming OS was killed (because it was not under US control). What was the name of the american CEO that was bombarded CEO of Nokia, and when the OS was killed got a high post at Microsoft ?

I'll need new conspiracy theories, all those I've believed in have been proven true

[Gene Cash]

Re: 1984

That was Stephen Elop and his "burning platforms" memo.

If the OS was anything like Maemo on the N810/N900, then good riddance to bad tech. "Let's port all the bad parts to Debian, and leave out the good parts, like the packaging system. Plus let's kinda sorta rewrite Hildon badly."

Wkikpedia says the package manager is dpkg, but that's only very recent. You had to reflash your device for an OS upgrade, losing all your data.

But then I was spoiled, having moved from Palm, where the OS was very well done.

[Dan 55]

Re: 1984

The N9 got awards and very good reviews but was only available in limited numbers in a few markets (the release was a contractual obligation). Another Elop masterstroke.

[captain veg]

Re: 1984

I was lucky enough to be sufficiently friendly with a colleague in our Helsinki office that he bought one on my behalf -- from a physical shop -- and sent it to me.

I've still got it. Totally indestructible. Unfortunately the platform burned, and left software totally charred. The bundled email client can't, for example, connect to the corporate email server any more. Neither can the supported browsers connect to the webmail of same. Problematic.

-A.

[captain veg]

Re: 1984

Maemo was a bit confused in its direction, but worked pretty well. That might be because the hardware was excellent.

I agree about Palm. The best smartphone I ever owned, relative to its contemporaries, was a Handspring Treo 270. Second best, a Palm Centro.

I really despair over Android. It's a huge pile of poo, but somehow unavoidable unless you're prepared to pay for an Apple device. I'm not, but my small exposure to Apple handsets and tablets left me distinctly hostiile.

What to do?

-A.

[Tams]

Re: 1984

That's always the problem with your type. 'Let's take the bad parts of x and rewrite y' comments when often it's subjective and you just don't like it.

Maemo was great, especially compared to all the other mobile OSes out there and was very refined by the time it was cancelled (thrn called Meego).

But people like you would rather shoot yourselves in the foot and argue over inconsequential things and end up with a bunch of niche projects that get nowhere, often abandoned.

[elsergiovolador]

Same old

In other words an official "found" a way to siphon tax payer money under guise of some revolutionary idea.

Facepalm

[Tams]

No mention of Sailfish OS, which has come from Maemo (based on Debian), which became Meego, then after abandoned by Nokia became Mer and Sailfish?

I mean, sure, they haven't exactly been successful, and their major client - the Russian government - were always morally questionable and are currently being sent back to the Stoneage...

But they are still alive and kicking just about. And Sony have put an egg (just the one) in their basket as a hedge against Google going too far (just as Samsung keep Tizen around (also related to Maemo/Meego)).

And there's also QNX still floating around, which like Sailfish also has (or had) decent Android app support. And LG have WebOS still kicking around in TVs.

So, if someone really wanted to and could be bothered to follow through and sustain it, then an alternative OS could come into the mainstream.

Then again, this is about a government wanting to invade privacy and spy on its citizens. India have a bad track record on it. But hey, that wpuld suit Sailfish as they are prepared to work with questionable entities to make custom versions of their OS.

[doublelayer]

You realize you're listing OSes that almost universally already tried being mobile OSes with the backing of large hardware manufacturers and failed? Maemo is the only one that you can argue wasn't tried enough because Nokia was bought to bolster Windows Phone, but Samsung tried several Tizen smartphones before sending it to watches and TVs before retiring their Tizen watches as well (they're back to the Android-based Wear OS now on those). QNX was tried repeatedly and it failed on each iteration to get people to switch over. Maybe because it took a long time to get Android compatibility, and incidentally I think it's likely they'd need a lot of updating to get the layer they eventually developed working well with modern apps again.

Sailfish exists, and they could use it if they wanted, but I doubt it's going to take anything over because it's had a while to gain general support and it hasn't accomplished that goal. You still need to use a Sony device, and it's not any Sony device but a particularly small list of compatible models. Could someone buy it and build it into something great? Yes, just as someone could build an OS from scratch and grow it to eclipse Android. Both are possible and both are fiendishly difficult. I don't think India or anybody else has the motivation, resources, and tenacity to make that happen. I have slightly higher hopes for the open-source mobile Linux projects because they allow people to drop out and be replaced by others and people who want something and can build it can be rather intense, but even that has a pretty steep climb to get anywhere.

[Tams]

You take me as some great advocate of Sailfish, but my comment was really rather scathing of them on several fronts.

The fact remains, if the Indian government did want a different OS for their snooping desires, then Sailfish is really the only option that wouldn't require too much work. Jolla would be more than happy to sell them access to the foundation of Sailfish and then they could add their malware on top of it themselves.

But as another poster has said; they'll likely contract some developers to reskin an existing Android ROM (perhaps fork a new one), watch it flop, relaunch the 'OS' as an app or service and then quietly forget about it.

[mark l 2]

There are plenty of phone OS knocking about that India could use as their national mobile OS rather than creating one from scratch. But all of them have the same issue, lack of apps. And even those which can run Android apps not all of Android apps will work correctly without Google Play services. So they are from a user perspective a crippled device compared to just using a Android phone which can usually be bought for the same price or cheaper than those alternative OS phones. So it will be a tough sell to get customers to buy a into an India national OS phone unless they literally ban the sale of Android/iOS devices in the country.

[Brewster's Angle Grinder]

"...without Google Play services."

That's the thing. What users and developers expect from a mobile OS is much more than you'd expect from a desktop OS. You expect mapping and, for devs, billing services, app updating, push notifications and so on.

[Jim84]

The Inidan government could slowly bring in a ban on android apps that use google play services, so that apps would work on AOSP (Android Open Source Project) and invest some money in improving open source android. This would get rid of the network effect where app developers only develop for Google Play Services because that is where the users are. But this is also a pretty extreme measure to take, and I don't know what unintended consequences it would have?

[Steve Davies 3]

re: ban the sale of Android/iOS devices

This will piss Apple/Foxconn off no end as they have chosen India to be a big manufacturing hub now that China has lost its shine.

Modi seems to be shooting himself in the foot here. Now if this had been proposed oh.... in 2011 or thereabouts then it might have had some chance of taking off.

[Anonymous Coward]

Lack of apps is oversold. Windows phone had enough apps at the end, it was fine.

Sailfish runs Android apps adequately.

There are some issues caused by anti-competitive Google features like the play store, but these would be best dealt with by making them illegal - which they can do. Or in most cases, just enforcing existing competition law.

The big thing is that it takes time, and you have to be in it for the long haul. It took MS four years to bring Windows phone up to snuff, and they abandoned it 6 months after that.

Profitability is a whole other issue, and I would think that MS couldn't really see Windows Phone actually making them money in the end. (BB9 the same I suppose)

Unless you have an objective other than profit, it is a pointless exercise.

[Youngone]

What Lessons?

I want to know about "manufacturers that learned a hard lesson in risk management when they put all their eggs in the China basket" and what those lessons were because from what I can see they're still all in on China and are making just as much money as they ever did. <br>

Why has China suddenly become the bad guys? I mean, they've always been bad guys but we didn't used to care as long as the money continued to flow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What Lessons?

>Why has China suddenly become the bad guys?

Their economy was beginning to rival the US and the US psychic couldn't handle there being another gorilla in the room...

[DS999]

India is big enough to do this

Sure it would be just another Android, but an Android that is Google free and linked to Indian services instead of Google services.

Developers don't need to target it specifically, it is in the best interests of both developers AND the Indian government that standard Android apps work on it. That guarantees it is a success with Indian consumers.

The win for India's government and people is cutting Google out of the picture and supporting India based companies for search, maps, etc. instead of relying on Google and keeping the ad dollars inside the country instead of sending them to Google.

It doesn't hurt that Apple has a sub 5% share of the smartphone market in India, meaning nearly the entire population is your potential customer base.

[3arn0wl]

In the interests of digital sovereignty...

... and in a somewhat fragmented world which increasingly uses tech as a weapon...

I'm surprised that more governments and regions aren't talking about putting resources into Linux for mobile. My recommendation would probably be PostmarketOS, though I realise that it still needs a lot of work.

[TheMeerkat]

The government spending money on OS development?

In many countries the actual purpose can be as simple as providing lucrative government contracts for your friends and family for a percentage as bribes. Nothing to do with the actual outcome.

[Roland6]

Re: The government spending money on OS development?

They are probably doing for the same reasons as China...

What is interesting how US-UK centric the elreg readership/commentors are; perhaps instead of opening a US office they should have opened a Mumbai office...

Members of the Indian government will have seen what a US leader has done to China and Huawei and decided they want to be prepared. Additionally, they don't fully trust their neighbour, particularly given the on-going border dispute.

In the current threat landscape I suggest (if you are a major economy) having in-country OS skills, particularly of the major open source variants, will be beneficial both to enhance a negotiating position but also to be better able to assess whether code has been "messed around with". Additionally, like China it potentially permits them to contribute to open source and help move the centre of 'ownership' away from the US.

So IndOS only really needs to compile and be sufficiently compatible to be able to run Google Play store applications...

However, if as a result of this initiative India develops a pool of OS/system programmers - like the programme in China - then it will have been a success.

[sketharaman]

India GPS

USA denied government of India's request for GPS data for Kargil in 1999. GoI decided to develop its own satnav called NavIC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Regional_Navigation_Satellite_System. Cue to 2023: Google Maps still reigns supreme in India. If NavIC is any indication, there's a good chance that this OS is unlikely to see the light of the day.