back to article IBM top brass accused again of using mainframes to prop up Watson, cloud sales

IBM, along with 13 of its current and former executives, has been sued by investors who claim the IT giant used mainframe sales to fraudulently prop up newer, more trendy parts of its business. In effect, IBM deceived the market about its progress in developing Watson, cloud technologies, and other new sources of revenue, by …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    El reg

    New per line payment to hacks a success

  2. Rick Mo

    z-Mainframe-z RULE!

    GEEZ, if IBM would simply focus on making M-A-I-N-F-R-A-M-E-z and cut out the B.S...

    They'd make 10x more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!

    ;-]

    GET IT, I.B.M.?????

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

      Pah these electrical computing engines will never catch on, punch cards is where the reliable profit is

      1. tatatata

        Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

        As Watson said: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

        (Thomas Watson, not the "AI" project)

        1. Androgynous Cow Herd

          Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

          Watson may have been right

          What he though of as "Computers" we now call "Cloud" - read up on the concept of "Utility computing" where an individuals' access to those 5 computers was via a special household cable and terminal.

          Now, Count the major cloud vendors.... If you actually count Oracle cloud, there are 5...

          and most PCs function mostly as smart terminals. And more and more applications are delivered via "Cloud versions"

    2. Peter-Waterman1

      Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

      Its funny, when I saw their Cloud numbers, I was left thinking, who in their right mind would go on IBM Cloud, blue mix or whatever it was branded? Now I know - no one was, and it's all a sham...corporations are so corrupt.

      1. James Anderson

        Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

        I did once in 2011 to run a quick proof of concept on a free DB2 instance. Took about 2 days.

        In 2022 I finally managed to close my cloud account. For over 10 years I was counted as an official “cloud customer”.

        1. lx

          Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

          Inside the firm, we were encouraged to test our cloud (Bluemix then).

          It was usual that the server/service was not available for hour or days. Just taste this: a multi-host something that can't be accessed anywhere.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: z-Mainframe-z RULE!

        IBM "cloud" was an acquisition of SoftLayer and a rebranding of their legacy data centre hosting business combined with the sprinkling of a few small consultancy and software acquisitions.

        And the compulsory inclusion of parts of Watson to spread the stench of failure thinly enough to pretend that THIS was going to be Watson's niche where it finally had a positive ROI.

        Statista has some nice historical data... https://www.statista.com/statistics/967365/worldwide-cloud-infrastructure-services-market-share-vendor/

  3. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Inglorious B'stard Management

    Or does the 'M' stand for Mafia?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just flog the business to HP. They’ll never check…. Until write down a couple of years after the event.

  5. GruntyMcPugh

    "IBM's response, it's claimed, was to retaliate against the employees"

    When I was blue, we supposedly had an 'open door' policy and the opportunity to whistleblow anonymously. Enron unfolded just after I joined, us peons had 'Business Conduct Guidelines' education to complete each year, to remind us to act ethically, and now, this?

    It seems the execs know IBM is doomed, and are sucking it dry for every dollar while they can.

    1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Big Blue execs didn't used to have to complete BCG as far as I remember; they had 'other' education to follow.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    YES

    IBM put us under a lot of pressure to sell the CAMSS dream. The problem being we were 10+ years behind the competition and our products were mostly marketing slides describing smoke and mirrors. When you are 10 years behind in the market your customers generally know more about the technology than IBM did. It took no effort for them to see through the façade Yes they did siphon off revenue from Global Services to prop up the CAMSS illusion. In doing so we had to cut back services -- we simply were not providing the services we were being paid to perform. This had an adverse effect on our customers and their business. This in turn made it nearly impossible to sell the new CAMSS stuff. Customers would ask "why would I buy more stuff from you when you're not providing what we've already paid for?" It was all a deception to prop up the quarterly earnings statements and stock prices, and in turn the executive's compensation.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: YES

      Happened on the mainframe sales side too.

      It was a running joke that it was all done so Ginni could get a big enough bonus to buy her own helicopter.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: YES

      "Yes they did siphon off revenue from Global Services to prop up the CAMSS illusion"

      That's an interesting point that explains a lot that odd spinoff that created Kyndryl company!!!

      1. David 132 Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: YES

        If what you ex-IBM ACs have said is true (and I’m not doubting you) then you should consider getting in touch with the plaintiffs’ lawyers and offering testimony!

        And in the meantime, have a pint for surviving Big Blue and living to tell the tale. ——>

      2. James Anderson

        Re: YES

        Kyndryl is Klingon for “the B arc”.

        My interpretation is an evil IBM exec had a bran wave while stroking the obligatory white cat.

        It’s going to be cheaper so hive of GBS as a separate company and let it go bankrupt than sack all those white skinned crinkles.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: YES

          Nope - Kyndryl is ex-GTS, Global Technology Services, not GBS, Global Business Services.

          Kyndryl is the talented staff that actually design, build and run infrastructure. So the C Ark.

    3. lx

      Re: YES

      Those lunatics in the cockpit sold or ended ALL product that connected IBM to the end user who or whose children the would become the decision makers of other companies.

      Such a generation has grown up that has no idea about what IBM is (was) so when it comes to purchase there's no reason why these 3 letters would come into their minds at all.

      Today kids are playing and CREATING using ChatGPT while Watson (that they never heard of since they were too young or had not even been born when it won jeopardy) needs trained professionals to gain less. Even within the company we have been lying to each other about it to meet the expectations.

      This is the background of the Imperatives BS.

      And the other side of the story: within IBM whole plants and divisions was robbed from their revenue with that shifting, and then they were being told "no pay rise for you due to insufficient income" for years, basically decreasing their gross salaries and wages in this inflation pressure and there is no chance they will ever be compensated.

      I never thought I would say anything like this back then, but yes: I am glad I'll soon be over with this company.

      Swallowing all the lies while completing the certification form of the business conducting guidelines has becoming an ever heavier burden.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As a former emloyee, I can confirm that the biggest focus in IBM during my time there was "financial engineering" - visible to the public in the form of stock buybacks to prop up the stock price, but also internally in the form of shifting revenues to the latest "strategy-du-jour" for which executives were handsomely rewarded with boni while the regular employees got shafted. So nothing new here, except perhaps extending the graft to partner companies.

  8. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Way too much to read.

    But shareholders slagging off their company can't be good for the shareholders, surely?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Long term, no it wouldn't be. Short term though it probably is: if they manage to win damages from the company then they get that cash, and the company can offset it against tax. In an ideal world what would happen is that the money gets clawed back from the execs bonuses.

      1. NameisFake

        And if they have to restate earnings? That’s going to be a shit show.

    2. JoeCool Silver badge

      The hope is that long term,

      management would build values based on increasing actual revenue and profits, rather than accounting tricks.

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: The hope is that long term,

        The IBM way.

        As to which of the approaches you mentioned fits that term now - I’m saying nothing!

  9. Coastal cutie

    I'm gonna need a bigger bucket of popcorn

    1. GuldenNL

      According to Watson Health, the fiber benefits outweigh the extra carbohydrates. Just skip the butter.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Skip the butter? Skip the butter?!

        What's the point? I might as well eat rice cakes.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Turns out you can put butter on rice cakes. Who'd have thought ....

        2. GuldenNL

          Well we all know that Watson isn't right much of the time.

  10. JoeCool Silver badge

    Great case study on the evils of corporations.

    A few years back, ElReg had an economics columnst, Tom Worstall (?) who argued that corps should not pay any taxes, for reasons of efficiency. Clearly their ability to lie about and mismanage finances is the counter argument.

    1. John Hawkins

      Tim Worstall

      I remember him; a bit 1980s for my taste - I had my fill of that with the university economics papers I took in the mid-80s - but interesting to read his columns even so.

      His website is also interesting, even if it's too much 'stream of consciousness' for my tastes and hard work to read. YMMV.

      1. JoeCool Silver badge

        Re: Tim Worstall

        Thanks, I wondered "where he went". I thought his idea was naive. but he was willing to engage in the comments, so that was cool.

        I got my economics degree in the early 90's, so I missed out on the behavioural developments (Thaler).

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Unfortunately the same as the rest of Big IT

    Sadly this is exactly the same approach to large accounts practiced by Cisco, DellEMC, HPE, Microsoft, Oracle VMware.

    It's the norm and has been run through by likely thousands of lawyers over the years.

    Business as usual.

  12. disgruntled yank Silver badge

    OSHA?

    OSHA is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. I can easily imagine OSHA opening cases against IBM, but as involving physical/chemical hazards or injuries to employees.

  13. dboyes

    Business as usual for IBM

    IBM makes a terrible partner if you're a technology developer. Expect to get pushed aside and hidden when you deliver really game-changing stuff. It's happened to us more than once.

  14. The Hurricane

    and the rest....

    This was going on around 2013-2014.

    I was in STG and a Z colleague mentioned he just had a bizarre call from WW wanting to know the Z deal he closed at one of the countries large banks.

    When asked why, they person on the other end of the line mentioned that they were from the cloud team and wanted to count a very non-cloud mainframe deal as cloud.

    I thought at the time this was somewhat smelly. Things just continued to get worse from there.

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