back to article Apple 'created decoy labor group' to derail unionization

Apple has been accused of creating its own labor organization to prevent workers from forming an employee-run union, according to a complaint filed on Friday. The Communications Workers of America (CWA) filed a complaint with the federal US National Labor Relations Board charging Apple with unfair labor practices. The …

  1. b0llchit Silver badge
    Unhappy

    These corporations are a danger to the public order

    Natural persons are jailed for less. Why are these corporations not "jailed"? They pretend to be a "person". Then, well, treat them as such...

    1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: These corporations are a danger to the public order

      As Robert Reich put it:

      "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Re: These corporations are a danger to the public order

        "a dedicated working group that can be used as a formal means for employees and leaders to provide feedback on both local and retail organization-wide initiatives, policies and practices."

        All of this feedback with be channeled through HR where they will be reviewed to see if they conform to approved Apple ways of thinking.

        Or, speak truth to power here and your ass is grass.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "a dedicated working group that can be used as a formal means for employees and leaders to provide feedback on both local and retail organization-wide initiatives, policies and practices."

    Sounds like a Works Council, like we have all over Europe. Far too "socialist" for the US, it seems.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      As a newly elected staff representative in the French branch of a US company, i can assure you it doesn't sound like it.

      For a start, work councils are mandated by law, not at the whim of the employer. Its members are elected by staff, not hand picked by the company. And unions have specific rights in the process to ensure it's balanced.

      1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

        "Its members are elected by staff, not hand picked by the company. And unions have specific rights in the process to ensure it's balanced."

        Do you know that this wasn't the case here? I have no idea, but I didn't read that in the article...

        1. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge
          FAIL

          Well the fact that the workers aren't unionised means that unions can't have been consulted, can they?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Possibly I wasn't clear enough : in France, by law, unions are involved in the election of work councils even when employees are not unionized.

          From the article, I'm reasonably sure that isn't the case in the US.

  3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Communists

    It looks like Apple spent too much time in China and got poisoned.

    One great communist once said something along the line "If you want to control opposition, you need to lead it yourself."

    1. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Communists

      That's not specifically a communist trick. I don't know how old the basic idea is but the British government made it an art form by the middle of the 19th century.

      Outright, implacable, hostility towards labor unions of any form seems to be a hallmark of authoritarian government.

    2. Smeagolberg

      Re: Communists

      "It looks like Apple spent too much time in China and got poisoned."

      That makes it sound like accidental exposure during a holiday trip.

      Apple consciously chose China because the 'poison' is cheap and profitable. It's hardly surprising that they have a similar approach in the US of keeping employees as cheap and profitable as possible. How else would Cook and top cronies fund their holidays so economically?

      1. Youngone

        Re: Communists

        China learned many of its anti-labour tricks directly from the United States.

        Have you heard of Company Towns, or Company Stores maybe? There was a popular song about those at one point.

        Treating working people like serfs is baked in to American labour laws.

        1. OhForF' Silver badge

          Re: Communists

          At least this cover of sixteen tons enjoyed a lot of views in 2021.

          Company stores aren't around in that same form any more, the wage slavery is using more subtle ways nowadays (think H1B visa workers and twitter e.g.).

    3. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Communists

      ALL American corporations are somewhat communist if you think about it, and not in the good way, but in the ruling party (board of directors) and fake elections (nominees from other rich people only), and those ruled have no say, way.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Communists

        only if don't understand what communism is.

        your describing a dictatorship, completely different thing.

  4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Local union affiliates?

    Why aren't these Apple workers organising for State or national unions? It seems really odd hearing about trying to unionise individual stores, one at a time. Why do they need to even organise in the first place? Can't they just join an already existing national or State "retail workers" union or something? They don't even have to tell Apple that they joined until they reach critical mass. Sometimes, individualism works against you.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: Local union affiliates?

      I was going to say "because there aren't any state or national unions for retail personnel", but then Google says there's the "Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU)"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Local union affiliates?

        But, this is tech! Tech is so much better than retail! Everyone makes so much more money from tech! There are no problems for tech employees. Because it's tech! And Apple is even betterer!!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Local union affiliates?

      Because it's virtually impossible to do a national organization without having a large number of stores already unionized.

      And there really aren't already existing large retail unions. The vast majority of retail workers aren't unionized yet, and the ones that are have unions that are kind of crap. Many Kroger stores are union, but their union leadership is... not the most competent.

    3. david 12 Silver badge

      Re: Local union affiliates?

      American unions can't represent workers unless management agrees, or they are certified:

      unlawful "to picket or cause to be picketed, or threaten to picket or cause to be picketed, any employer where an object thereof is forcing or requiring an employer to recognize or bargain with a labor organization as the representative of his employees ... unless such labor organization is currently certified as the representative of such employees"

      As I understand it, American labour law is very complex, with rules and exceptions. Like the tax code.

    4. Insert sadsack pun here

      Re: Local union affiliates?

      "Can't they just join an already existing national or State "retail workers" union or something?"

      Because in the US you have to organise workplace by workplace, and you all need to pull together as part of the same union. That's why getting a union recognized as being the voice of the workforce (or a category of worker e.g. retail staff but not electricians) at a location is such a big deal.

      It's not like the UK where you can just about join any union that will have you, regardless of whether they are recognised by your employer. And that reminds me - I didn't rejoin the union when I changed my job earlier this year...

    5. TRT

      Re: Local union affiliates?

      I don't know for certain, but I'm sure they've made use of some trick or other. Like making each individual store effectively a franchise and thus its own company which would have a much smaller workforce, probably underneath some minimum threshold figure for mandatory employee benefits; so things like health care etc are going to be "perks" that can be withdrawn rather than statutory provisions. They play to the letter of the law, not the spirit of it. Mind you the legal department has amazing pay and benefits, I hear.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seen in the UK

    "We only recognise the one union".

    That being one that has NO local members.

    1. Martin-73 Silver badge

      Re: Seen in the UK

      so that company gets lots of strikes, I hope

  6. lglethal Silver badge
    Go

    The simple take away from all this works two ways:

    1) If your company is dead set against you joining a union, you very likely need a union, because they clearly are screwing you over.

    2) if your workers are dead set on joining a union, then it's because they feel you're screwing them over, and probably are. If you don't want them joining a union, how about trying not to screw them over?

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Not screwing over your employees? What kind of crazy commie talk is that?!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Union Smoonion

    No way apple will give in it will fight tooth and nail to keep its servants in place.

    Huge deep pockets to keep fighting and now with the “internet of things” , does ANYONE REALLY THINK THAT APPLE DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

    The chances of employing a union person have dropped to an all time low.

    USA working practices is to use people and abuse them

    THATS HOW YOU GET RICH

  8. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Flame

    Fucking plebes

    They should just take what the company offers and be grateful.

    /s (hopefully obviously)

  9. johnnyblaze

    Rotten core

    From the outside looking in, Apple portray themselves as a squeaky clean, security focused company who have their customers best wishes at heart. Internally, they're as controlling and manipulating as anyone else. They use the cheapest labour to make and package their shiny 'i' devices, they bend arms where necessary, and control their own staff to make sure nothing affects their brand image. Apple's PR/Marketing people have more power than most other companies because NOTHING should tarnish that image. Yes, they also collect and process more data that you can possibly imagine, but are incredibly secretive on what they actually do with it.

  10. I should coco

    Its personal

    Apple has so much net worth that paying fair wages, offering decent health packages, proper time off etc. would not hurt them one bit and they know it. For the big cheeses its personal, how dare you ask to be treated fairly when no other employee in the US gets treated fairly, how dare you expect reasonable treatment. Know your place minions

  11. Potemkine! Silver badge

    When related to social rules and laws, the US are so 19th century. They seem to have been written by the robber barons.

    == Bring us Dabbsy back! ==

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      They were, but by the new robber barons.

  12. Marty McFly Silver badge
    Megaphone

    So why don't employees quit already??

    Is this really a thing requiring unionization to protect employees? It is a retail job, probably in a shopping mall. This isn't a dangerous industry where unionized employees are necessary to ensure the company implements the proper safety controls. Therefore this is all about compensation.

    If Apple isn't paying enough money, I am sure there are a dozen other retail stores which will hire them. Best Buy needs help selling over-priced tech stuff too!

    Or are they at the Apple store because it does pay better than other retail jobs? If Apple was screwing over the employees financially they would already be out the door. Therefore the pay must be competitive for the retail marketplace, and thus why is a union needed?

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: So why don't employees quit already??

      That's a nice sheltered life you have there. It would be a shame if anything should happen to it.

    2. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

      Re: So why don't employees quit already??

      This isn't a dangerous industry where unionized employees are necessary to ensure the company implements the proper safety controls.

      I'm so glad that I don't live in the US, where this is what people think unions are for.

      For reference, in civilised countries, the thing that is in place to ensure that proper safety controls are in place is called "health and safety legislation". If employers breach this, they are liable to prosecution, not by unions, but by statutory bodies, such as the Health and Safety Executive in the UK.

      The purpose of unions is to gain a collective bargaining position to ensure that the employers don't take the piss out of employees, for example by demanding long working hours, paying a pittance, and so on. Nothing to do with "dangerous industries"

      Of course, unions have had a role to play in getting the health and safety legislation in place in the first place, in order to make workplaces safer, but they are certainly not responsible for ensuring it is followed (although they may enable reporting of violations in such a way as to mitigate fear of reprisals).

      Every time I read a post by someone claiming that unionisation is unnecessary, I find myself wondering about their motivations. Union actions have brought us things like statutory maternity pay, weekends, paid holidays, fairer pay, health and safety in the workplace, and so on. These things are at the detriment of nobody, with the exception of unscrupulous and exploitative employers.

      You wouldn't be on the side of the unscrupulous and exploitative now, would you?

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