back to article Arm processor technology caught up in US chip war with China

Chinese companies are being further hit by US-led export controls on advanced chip technology, with reports that the e-commerce giant Alibaba is being denied access to Arm's Neoverse V-series processor designs. According to reports, Alibaba, which is regarded as China’s answer to Amazon, will not have access to the Neoverse V- …

  1. alain williams Silver badge

    "technology for purely military applications is 10 to 15 years old"

    But that assumes that the boojum that this is all about the military is true. Stopping China becoming an economic competitor is seen as being just as important.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "technology for purely military applications is 10 to 15 years old"

      ASML should sell its looms to Japan and just act surprised when its looms turn up in China.

      And then ASML can complain that allowing China access to this technology has resulted in Chinese competitors making it uncompetitive

      What's that you say? That was cotton and this is chip making, and they are totally different animals.....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "technology for purely military applications is 10 to 15 years old"

        ASML should decline to supply to US fabs, and supply China instead.

        It's pretty obvious which is the biggest market, and which actually wants to have fabs as opposed to just getting snout and both front trotters in the trough while fabs are flavour of the month with the govt.

      2. Lil Endian Silver badge

        Re: "technology for purely military applications is 10 to 15 years old"

        Or China could just deal with it themselves:

        US: Restrict exports to China!

        China: OK. Let's change the subject... How about we talk about approximately $1tn...

  2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Cash and blood

    Meanwhile, there is some kickback against the export controls from outside the US. ASML CEO Peter Wennink is reported to have said that his company has already given up enough sales opportunities.

    Who cares about selling technology to bloodthirsty dictators, eh? After all what can they do? Kill us all?

    It's like IBM selling to Hitler all over again.

    1. Zolko Silver badge

      Re: Cash and blood

      bloodthirsty dictators

      you should go out more and not believe all the propaganda that the Biden regime throws at you. Remember the Taliban ? How did that turn out ? Or Saddam Hussein, or Kadhafi, or Assad ... No current government on Earth tops – or even comes close to – the US one for "bloodthirsty"

      1. very angry man

        Re: Cash and blood

        Alas only one vote to give, soo true

    2. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Cash and blood

      >It's like IBM selling to Hitler all over again.

      A worn out cliche. "IBM" didn't sell to "Hitler". The Germans had been making tabulating machines since before WW1 and IBM (or what was to become IBM) acquired them in the 1920s. The Germans were quite capable of making their own tabulating kit -- they made an early version of a modern computer in the mid-30s.

      Modern China is nothing like 1930s Germany. Its a commercial competitor which is why we're applying commercial sanctions to them. I don't think it will work. Things might slow down a bit but they're too big and they have too much invested to let a handful of sanctions slow them down much. Since they're not interested in invading their neighbors, they'd much rather just sell them stuff, we have to fall back on a rather tired sounding propaganda machine to try to get everyone behind responding to the 'threat'.

  3. FIA Silver badge

    It's interesting the way empires try to retain their power, never once learning from the lessons of history.

    We're an odd species really, stuck in our own little groups, each convinced we're somehow better than the other, never collectivly realising that we're all basically the same.

    Take a big enough group of us and you'll get much the same results, yet we still cling on to this notion that if we don't let the other people play with our toys they'll never figure out their own.

    We've even coined a phrase for it... "re-inventing the wheel".... yet around and around we still go.

    More fool us.

    All of us.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge

      At Last!

      ... a commentard with at least 2 communicating neurons.

      Most sensible thing I've seen on here for some time. Have one of these ->

    2. vogon00

      Yep, that's all true. We never use the lessons of history, preferring instead to optimistically assume we can repeat the experiments of the past and get a different outcome.

      The other thing is that we usually choose to disbelieve that the other 'little groups' are not as smart as us, let alone smarter! "What, them over there are better at this than us? I don't think so!"

    3. Lil Endian Silver badge

      Take a big enough group of us and you'll get much the same results certainly, as TPTB need to promote enemy image for population control and profiting from the next war du jour.

      More fool us. All of us. For not having the spines to ensure TPTB serve for the benefit of all.

  4. martinusher Silver badge

    >Wennink claimed. “American chip manufacturers have no problem with China as a customer,”.

    This really is the heart of the matter. The Chinese have been getting too big for their boots and need putting in their place. We don't mind them building our crap, making us money, but Heaven help them if they start getting too good. This was what was behind the ban on Huawei -- their problem is not only that they'd become the largest cellphone maker in the world but they had about two thirds of the patents needed to implement 5G. So they got the full court press treatment -- stories about security planted far and wide, lobbying, legal pressure -- and the sad thing is that a lot of people who should know better swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.

    I am opposed to our course of action because it just won't work. We might slow things down, we might foist inferior technologies on our own population, but ultimately it just won't work. Worse still, by disturbing the global build/buy balance we're setting ourselves up to be permanently second rate.Or worse.

    1. TheInstigator Bronze badge

      Sadly - the way the world is - it will work ...

      Shout about security loudly enough and people will get scared and follow you - historically this has worked.

      Remember Iraq and WMDs? No country that took part in military operations to overthrow Iraq's leader has faced sanctions in court. This emboldens countries who benefit from this (e.g. the UK and US) to continue pursuing their own agendas as they know they can get away with it.

      I recall all this starting around the time that news articles picked up on the fact that the way Huawei was growing, it would be a bigger earner than Apple (which at that time was the largest grossing company in the world) - the US could never have that and thus started to instigate measures in the name of national security.

      Let's not forget the US has actually been caught trying to weaken crypto algorithms publically, whilst examination of Huawe's code in conjunction with UK intelligence agencies hasn't found any of the much vaunted security issues that the US has been reporting about.

      1. Zolko Silver badge

        No country that took part in military operations to overthrow Iraq's leader

        like Ukraine. Yes, they DID participate to the invasion too. One could talk about bad karma there, or a good lesson : "Thou shalt not invade another country, or someone else might come for yours ".

  5. PhilipN Silver badge

    "China’s answer to Amazon"

    Urrrmmm..... I think you are referring to Aliexpress, which serves us poor people. Alibaba is very much B-to-B.

  6. Missing Semicolon Silver badge

    So, what's the end-game?

    There's a lot of airy "we're all citizens of the world, we're all the same, this is so old-fashioned and protectionist" talk around the subject of where stuff is made. I guess from people who think they will still have a living whatever happens.

    But in terms of cost-per-widget, getting stuff made in China will always be cheap. Not because they are super-efficient and productive, or have invested mightily in automation, but for the old-fashioned reasons - labour is cheap, social care costs are low, energy is cheap and plentiful. The logical conclusion (that we are getting closer to, particularly in the UK) is that everything will be made in China. At some point we will discover that we are now simply there to feed the Chinese economy. With no industry (and the rise of outsourcing of desk jobs) what is there for us to do?

    Pretty well all tech is made in China now.

    Our steel industry is next. Silly energy prices and higher employment costs are seeing to that.

  7. Arthur Daily

    Adding to global warming

    OK, China just runs on old servers that are adequate enough, but consumes double the electricity. So China just doubles its energy consumption till it can make something more efficient. ASML and the EU Greens should be livid about sanctions that drive global warming. China should put out a CO2 impact cost report to wave in their faces. In reality this is about economic protectionism and illegal trade subsidies. USA should do what its best at: Apply import duties and taxes to goods made overseas. Why that may even create jobs in the US.

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