back to article This is the best pay offer you'll get without more strikes, union tells BT workers

CWU, the communications union, says the pay award negotiated with BT Group is the best employees can expect and "strongly recommends" it is approved at a ballot scheduled for mid-December. In an email to members – seen by us – the union said it "strongly recommends that you vote to accept the proposal, as it is the maximum …

  1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

    "One engineer told us ... "Everyone should get the same percentage rise" "

    Fucking Communists.

    1. Fonant

      Actually that's more capitalist than communist - the same percentage rise means the top brass get LOADS more money, while those on minimum wage get the smallest increase.

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        It's communist when it comes to taxation, but capitalist when it comes to pay rise.

      2. Lars Silver badge

        Yes those who are payed less should get the higher % rise, of course.

  2. Spazturtle Silver badge

    "Everyone should get the same percentage rise, "

    That would mean those who are the most in need would get less.

    Fixed amount pay rises are by far the fairest option.

    1. Persona Silver badge

      Fixed amount pay rises are by far the fairest option.

      That would mean the less experienced and skilled workers would be incentivized to stay but the more highly valued staff would be incentivized to leave.

      1. Fonant

        That's a Good Thing, as it's always the lower-paid staff that do the most actually-necessary work. They're the ones that companies need to keep on!

      2. Peter2 Silver badge

        This assumes that you can get paid more elseware. And if you can get paid 10% more at another job then i'm certainly interested.

      3. Tom66

        Let them leave. A company like BT knows it needs to keep these staff so they'll either start paying more or pay more to the next recruit.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Let them leave - the pay structure is a pyramid - allows people to move up the food chain.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            The pay structure is not really a pyramid.

            For the managerial grades there are bands, and the lowest pay for a specific band is less than the maximum pay for the band below.

            Of note, the highest paid technician band is more than the lowest management band. So what happens is that a technician on overtime earns more than a manager on the either the bottom three managerial bands. The annoying aspect of this, is that managers work overtime for no pay. So as a technician you could be doing same amount of hours as a manager, get the same money, for a lot less responsibility.

            BT treat their people badly.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward


              The EE staffers went from a very granular 23 different pay grades to BT's 6.

              Some very senior technical staff got put in the same banding as junior devs... And non-senior managers.... Then got rid of seniority within roles (i.e. No more promotions from junior to dev to senior to principal... All just software engineers.)

              We all got lumped together on one banding (and told we're losing the car allowance, and after a few years losing our extra 5% bonus.) yet they wonder why experienced devs are changing departments or just leaving - resulting in a brain drain were stuff that works can't be maintained easily because security hates comments in code.... Until they didn't any more.

              Anon because I too got a pay bump but pretty much as an incentive to stay rather than because arms got twisted.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Not sure what it is like now, but BT had pay bands, and within those pay bands you received pay progression after a certain amount of time. The longer you worked for the company, the higher in the band you progressed until you reached the maximum.

        Things may have changed in that the bands may exist, but automatic progression based on duration of service may have been eliminated.

        For managerial roles there are pay bands, and how you progress in those is based on performance.

        As an aside, to provide you an idea of senior management attitude, in the early 2010's there was a very senior manager who said those people on their max through working for the company for a long time, were a cancer on the company. This was stated on a conference call with hundreds listening in.

        Needless to say, that person moved out of BT many months later.

        Anon for obvious reasons.

      5. Roland6 Silver badge

        Not necessarily. One would hope that if someone was highly valued this would be reflected in their performance related pay review and promotion. Basically, the system should result in those who join and not delivering having their pay fall behind and so gain an incentive to leave and create space for new blood.

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      re:Fixed amount pay rises are by far the fairest option.

      Time to bring back the £6.00/week pay rises then?

      New hires were getting more than those who had been there a year so they left to find a new job.I did that and got a 16% pay rise.

      {You have to be a certain age to remember that fiasco}

  3. Tubz Bronze badge

    Not backdated, getting greedy now !

    1. Persona Silver badge

      Back dated

      I once worked for the civil service. Some months after I left another pay cheque arrived. There had been a back dated pay award that covered when I was still working there. It was a great and welcome surprise. The icing on the cake came the next week when another cheque arrived. I had cashed in the non-contributory pension when I left and already received the cash, however the back dated pay meant more back dated non-contributory pension to be "refunded" to me.

  4. devin3782

    Meanwhile most of us in the private sector haven't even had the slightest whiff of payrise...

    1. BFG

      You may have missed it, but BT has been a private company for 40 years.

      Maybe you should band together with your work colleagues and negotiate with your employer for a pay increase?

      1. devin3782

        I'm well aware of the privisation to BT

        1. Kane Silver badge

          "I'm well aware of the privisation to BT"

          Clearly not

    2. Paul 25

      BT has been in the private sector for a very long time

      30 years in fact since they were privatised.

      I have opinions on whether that was the right move (especially for the Openreach part) but it is most definitely a for-profit private sector company listed on the London stock exchange.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Thanks for the "I haven't had a pay rise so why should you" crabs-in-a-bucket useful idiocy.

      Meanwhile those at the top, chums of the Tories et al, have been getting *their* bonuses and generous pay rises for years, and continue to do so.

      This is why- even if wage-driven inflation *is* a legitimate concern- no-one is obliged to listen to the hypocritical likes of super-rich Sunak and chums when they suggest that the plebs have a moral obligation to sacrifice *their* own interests and not ask for rate-of-inflation pay rises.

      In a more equal society, led by those with a moral authority, people may well feel prepared to do so. In today's UK, on the other hand, no-one should feel guilty about protecting their own interests with a "fuck you, you've got yours, I expect to get mine" when those in charge would only use any leeway to take advantage of them.

      This is relevant to the public sector, but even more so the private sector, which BT- as others have already noted- has been a part of for over thirty years.

    4. Roland6 Silver badge

      Consider it a 'benefit' of not working for a highly unionised company and probably also working for a company that if it went bust tomorrow joe public would hardly notice.

  5. spireite Silver badge

    Amazes me how many people complain when they get a pay rise that it isn't big enough.

    Many don't get a payrise, and then complain... but.... there are other jobs paying more out there that they could do, but can't be arsed to switch, or do a little learning.

    I see it quite often in the tech sector...

    "Yeah, there is a role perfect for me paying 5/10K more"

    "Have you applied?"

    "No, I haven't got the time (to rework the CV/for an interview/fill the knowledge holes)"

    Well, quit complaining.... you have to be in it to win it.....

    1. Roger Kynaston Silver badge


      I work in higher education where there is a current dispute. I imagine that an offer will be made which the onions will put to the membership. It will likely be less than current inflation so will be a de facto pay cut. Does this mean I should not complain about being fractionally less well off than I might have been?

  6. ElRegioLPL

    Wanting more money doesn't mean you are greedy. It just means you are realistic. These companies are making £1b+ in profits so why shouldnt the people who make everything work, every day get a bigger slice?

    Inflation is increasing the price of everything and yet wages are staying the same, so how can the companies really justify it?

    1. bregister

      "Inflation is increasing the price of everything and yet wages are staying the same, so how can the companies really justify it?"

      because the people making the decisions really don't care about the long run, if they can puff up the share price for the next quarter and get the multi-million pound bonus.

      Customer service or the fate of the employees is a matter of no importance what so ever.

      Someone I know is a avid board gamer and finished their MBA recently, doing very well in the process.

      How, by simply gaming the system.

      BT back in government hands by 2030 just like the trains

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        >BT back in government hands by 2030 just like the trains

        Given what we've witness these last few years in Westminster and some decades back with a previous Tory government, I'm not sure if that is a good idea...

        What we really need is some form of public ownership that can deliver the goods, yet be able to tell the amateurs (aka politicians) what to do with themselves.

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