Security firms hijack New York trees to monitor private workforce

Private security firms in New York City have co-opted public resources – specifically trees – to track their guards as they make their rounds. According to Gothamist, a New York-focused news site, security contractors have been drilling into trees on public city streets to install signaling hardware to ensure that guards are …

[b0llchit]

Watching the watcher

I wonder when they will pay guards to watch the guards. Not the electronic ones, no real ones. These watching guards then will need watching by new guards. The watching watching guards may need a reminder to do some watching by guards who watch the watching watching guards to watch the watch watch the watching guards watching the guards.

We also need at least two guards watching the guard and two guards watching the watching guards, which are watched by the watching watching watching guards watching the watched watch watching the guards. We only need 33 layers of two guards watching the guard to have 100% global employment.

Keep watching that guard, guards!

[Jellied Eel]

Re: Watching the watcher

One of the interesting snippets from the Pelosi assault was about guards. So Washington's Capitol Police apparently has an outpost in SF, with securitty cameras. Apparently the guards only became aware of the break-in and assault after they saw SF police red & blue flashers on their monitors.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Watching the watcher

When you have all the guards watching, have the original guard watch the top guard. You know, just in case the circle needs closure.

Anon, in case they're watching.

[Neil Barnes]

Re: Watching the watcher

"But who watches _you_, Mr Vimes?"

"I watch me..."

(Pterry, of course, and probably misquoted.)

[Kane]

Re: Watching the watcher

*Ahem*, Excuse me...

“I can tell you anything you need to know,” said Vimes.

“Yes, Your Grace, but that is not how an inquiry works. I must act completely independently. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Your Grace.”

“I know that one,” said Vimes. “Who watches the watchmen? Me, Mr. Pessimal.”

“Ah, but who watches you, Your Grace?” said the inspector with a brief smile.

“I do that, too. All the time,” said Vimes. “Believe me.”

[DishonestQuill]

Re: Watching the watcher

Thank you for saving me the effort of typing that out.

Thud! may not have been his finest piece of writing by I was always keen on A.E. as a character.

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Watching the watcher

My favourite line from that novel is Mr. Pessimal, to a group of assembled trolls: "Come on if you think you're hard enough."

Genius.

[David 132]

Re: Watching the watcher

I don't think he made enough use of A.E. Pessimal as a character. I mean, there was his introduction in Thud! and a brief conversation between him & Carrot about the Dreadful Logic of Necessity in Snuff, but not really much more than that.

Sigh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Watching the watcher

Why don't they just track the GPS on the guards phones, like Android (Google) & Apple do to all of us?

[David Nash]

Re: Watching the watcher

Because it can be turned off? I don't keep GPS on mine unless I need it.

[doublelayer]

Re: Watching the watcher

If you employ guards, you likely give them a communication method which you control, so you can prevent them from disabling GPS on that device and use that to track them. No less intrusive to them (though how much tracking is justified when you are working is subjective) but it does prevent the work and damage caused by installing tracking devices in trees.

[imanidiot]

Re: Watching the watcher

GPS reception and accuracy is generally terrible indoors and in the urban canyons of cities like NYC. Bad enough to not be reliable for keeping fine track of a guard doing his rounds.

[doublelayer]

Re: Watching the watcher

Is that still true with the use of WiFi and Bluetooth used to obtain more specific data? Those methods, whether we like them or not, have been tried and used successfully for some time, and cities are full of things that emit a signal and don't move which can be used as landmarks for something identifying patterns.

[An_Old_Dog]

Re: Watching the watcher

Why don't they forget all this pointlessly-high-tech shit and just use the old watchman's-key + (armored) keycode+time recording clocks at the various stations on the rounds the guard is supposed to make?

[Neil Barnes]

Re: Watching the watcher

I wonder what the breakdown is between 'make sure the guard is doing the rounds he's supposed to' and 'be able to prove after an event that the guard did the rounds he was supposed to'?

In these litigious days I suspect more the latter than the former.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Watching the watcher

The high-tech shit is cheaper to manufacture and maintain, and it gives the vendor something shiny to sell.

[Triggerfish]

Re: Watching the watcher

It's ipsos custodes all the way down.

[Jason Bloomberg]

Re: Watching the watcher

When I was involved in security, before mobiles were a thing, we used to have 'key stations' which guards doing their rounds would need to activate.

We were the 'guards watching the guards', but purely for their own safety to ensure there hadn't been a 'man down' we didn't know about. But yes, it enforced doing their job, protected the company and guards against accusations of not doing their job, and there was shit to pay if they weren't keying-in when and where they were expected to but there was leeway

So it's not a new thing, but the underlying motivation for doing it can vary.

[Anonymous Coward]

Tree torture

Guards clocking in at checkpoints is nothing new. Drilling holes in public trees is!

[Neil Barnes]

Re: Tree torture

Here in Germany trees are often protected at construction or road works sites by wrapping them in a girdle of three by one inch planks[1]. I have no doubt it prevents accidental damage from things driving into them, but when I see it it always strikes me that it's as tactful as giving the workers PPE made out of human skin...

[1] they're probably metric; I haven't measured.

[AnotherName]

Re: Tree torture

I seem to remember when living in Germany in the early 80's that if an accident involved tree damage, the tree had to be paid for out of the insurance claim too. When the RAF Harriers did their field exercises deployed in the edge of woodland for cover, there was a bill to pay for every tree damaged or knocked over - particularly expensive during wet weather when it was easier to uproot a tree or two.

[F. Frederick Skitty]

Re: Tree torture

Not just trees, but any damage to property caused by military manoeuvres. There used to be lots of military exercises in West Germany during the Cold War, and it wasn't unusual for a farmer to find a bunch of tanks smashing through one of his hedges and churning up a field. The occupying forces would then cough up for the damage caused.

[Lon24]

Re: Tree torture

These devices contain batteries - type undefined. Most have a shelf life and exposed to the elements will eventually leak. Not always to the taste of the tree methinks.

[Arthur the cat]

Re: Tree torture

They look remarkably like iButtons and the description "unique laser-recorded serial number in a stainless steel casing" is the same. iButtons are definitely not waterproof. They can also usually be reprogrammed via a one wire interface.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Tree torture

I seem to think that the phrase "bought the farm" originated from compensation paid for crop damage in the event of a crash. (Or am I quoting an Urban Myth?)

[Helcat]

Re: Tree torture

I'd like to see the people putting these devices IN the trees fined. Heavily.

I can see the problem being in identifying who is doing this.

I suspect the authorities might resort to posting guards at the trees. They'll probably have to hire the guards, of course, and the company who they hire to do this might just... drill holes into the trees they're guarding to insert devices to ensure the guards are guarding the tree and stopping people drilling holes into the tree to insert devices to make sure the guards are at their post.

Next they'll have to get guards to guard the trees from the companies hired to guard the trees to make sure none of this happens. Or they know who to fine when it does.

[TRT]

Re: Tree torture

I'd be having a discreet word with Treebeard.

[TRT]

Re: Tree torture

Groot!

[Dizzy Dwarf]

Re: Tree torture

It's nothing new ...

In days of yore,

when knights were bold

and women weren't invented,

they drilled a hole

in a telegraph-pole

and had to be contented.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Where I am, far from the overpriced cities, a single full size tree replacement costs around 30,000 dollars.* This doesn't even include the cost of a full size tree, but is the cost to move from one part of my property to another. I imagine the cost to replace a tree in the city is around 100,000 dollars, plus the cost of the tree.

The correct way to solve this is for the city to fine the company for the replacement cost of each tree with this equipment attached, along with the destruction of removed equipment. Then they can fill the hole with whatever wood putty arborists use to patch trees, and glue a little piece of bark over the patch.

*And how quickly I decided I didn't want a tree moved after all!

[ChoHag]

fine the company for the replacement cost of each tree

> the cost of the tree

That's about 30+ years. Trees don't grow on money.

[David 132]

Re: fine the company for the replacement cost of each tree

ChoHag> Trees don't grow on money.

Get out.

[Joe W]

Moving?

Really moving? Digging out and putting somewhere else?

Here we are talking about chopping down a f'd up tree and planting a new one. I guess we are looking at a bit less. But then I'd totally fine them 100k or more for destruction of public property, ecological vandalism, gross neglect and... dunno. Per tree. Especially since a young tree takes about two or so decades to grow into something halfway decent. At the very least. I don't know how old the trees in our garden are, there's abunch, but they are not super chunky.

[KittenHuffer]

Re: Moving?

"I don't know how old the trees in our garden are"

Get a chain saw out and count the rings, then you'll know how old they ..... were! Oh! Oops! Sorry!

[TRT]

Re: Moving?

In order to avoid being chopped down, particularly magical and semi-sentient trees might evolve a system of displaying their age in the patterning of their bark. However, this may have the unfortunate side effect of making them very attractive to the sellers of house number plaques.

*Courtesy of I think it's PTerry. I think. IIRC. Otherwise, colour me Corden.

[DishonestQuill]

Re: Moving?

T'was indeed a PTerry reference. From Mort, if I remember correctly.

Buggrit Millenium hand and shrimp

[imanidiot]

Re: Moving?

It's quite common that once an old tree has grown big and tall, all the other trees around it have too. A young tree (or even a sapling) planted in it's place is unlikely to ever reach similar size and has a drastically reduced chance of survival to even get old in the first place. Some trees are simply irreplaceable.

[myhandler]

Pfft, just 3d print some new trees, nobody will notice.

[John Brown (no body)]

"The correct way to solve this is for the city to fine the company for the replacement cost of each tree"

Or, alternatively, it being New York, use it as a revenue stream by issuing lucrative licences allowing them to mount their trackers on the trees. Unlicensed trackers will be removed and the offenders fined. And, of course, it being New York, this scheme will run at a loss because of the costs in enforcing it :-)

[Pascal Monett]

Well duh

"Amazon's worker surveillance disproportionately targets low-paid workers and people of color"

Not hard to understand how that works. Where do the low-paid worker work ? On the warehouse floor, gathering items for Internet orders*.

Where do the better-paid workers work ? In management, watching screens all day and pressuring low-paid workers for not moving fast enough and having to pee.

You're not going to put surveillance on management, now are you ?

* and talking about people of color is a cheap shot. I'm sure the lowly white guy on the warehouse floor is under just as much surveillance as his afro-american colleague.

[Lil Endian]

Surveillance at Mission Control...?

"I'm Simon. I just thought I'd catch a few words with you and hopefully clear up a misunderstanding."

The viscosity of Gary's bravado takes a bit of a nose dive as the lift eases to a halt between floors. I nod at the camera on the roof so that Gary can witness the LED turning off.

I was sure there was an episode covering surveillance, but I couldn't find it. Anyone...?

Now that's out of my system, I do agree with you: the use of the word "disproportionately" is misleading. Statistics, eh? Who'd have thought they could be twisted to suit one's own agenda!

Lowly office workers have been monitored far longer, as their work usually leaves audit trails. Ok, it's incidental monitoring, but active is there too. They're often at static work stations too.

Middle manglement, not as easy because they're usually "being really busy, erm, over there!". I'm happy if I can't monitor them within my Mission Control!

Programmer: yup, she's still sitting at that VT330...

C-Suite: golf course.

One thing I'm curious about: The company says, "...and what they inspected at a location."

How? 'When' and 'where' they are, yeah, obvs. But 'what' they were "inspecting" (?looking at), not with just a single Dingle Button me thinks! Seems a stretch (aka marketing BS).

(Dingle Button, Deggy Berry or just Dingle Berry? Vote now!)

[Christoph]

Re: Well duh

"You're not going to put surveillance on management, now are you ?"

Well of course! It's important to the shareholders that management are doing their jobs and not skiving off, so they should be able to spy on what management are getting up to.

After all the managers can hardly complain about getting the same surveillance as the workers, now can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Well duh

"and talking about people of color is a cheap shot." Pretty sure that what they're saying there is the people of color are more likely to be low paid.

[Falmari]

Re: Well duh

@Pete B"Pretty sure that what they're saying there is the people of color are more likely to be low paid."

It maybe what they were trying to say or trying to infer. But it most certainly was not what they said.

[LybsterRoy]

I'm not sure what these people are guarding but having worked in a number of locations with "night watchmen" its often been required that they key into a station at various points of their area to 1) prove that they've actually been patrolling and 2) check if they're still alive (said stations would report to base if not keyed at the right time) so I don't really see a problem with this approach.

Actually I do have one problem, if inserting the device harmed the trees it shouldn't be done.

[b1k3rdude]

Well as these guards are a) probably ethnic minority workers and b) dont want to loose thier job - of course they dont f***ing have a problem with being tracked... The shit will hit the fan when the system is hacked and/or abused and a guard is seriously harmed or loses thier life. Only then will something get done, typical murica.

What I dont get is why neither city council is prosecuting these companies for damaging public property and/or threatening them with large fines if the issue persists.

[Norman Nescio]

Mechanical version

The concept of using technology to try and ensure that a watchman did their rounds has been around for a long time:

Watchman's Clock

[nichomach]

Hang on a mo'

I'm not sure of the situation in New York, but drilling into public property like that without prior authorisation in the UK would be criminal damage.

[imanidiot]

Re: Hang on a mo'

Also, why is an apparently private security guard required to do rounds in a public park??

[PB90210]

all-weather transmitters that communicate with a mobile phone app

Erm... you've got a mobile with 'location services' and you feel the need to (illegally) install transmitters to communicate with an app on that mobile to tell you what the phone already knows?

Oh, I see... the app is there to track the location of the transmitters in case they get stolen by the parks dept!

(my head hurts)

[jvf]

Assholes all, especially jeff bozo

[Marty McFly]

It is not about monitoring guards...

This is all about legal arse covering.

A Bad Thing happens at a particular location. Lawsuit ensues, claiming the company did not provide adequate security. Company pulls up logs showing the regular guard intervals. Due diligence has been validated. Case closed.

Avoiding the downside of one multi-million dollar lawsuit pays for a lot of trackers on trees.

[Anonymous Coward]

Business cards

I remember when security guards used to stuff a business card in a door or window ledge on their way around.

Stuff 5 cards in at random, go back and sleep the rest of the shift.

[zaax]

These are viewed on laptops. Ipso facto, Hunter Biden.

[Ken Moorhouse]

Does this not damage the tree?

Surely people will have noticed the leavesdropping?

[Ken Moorhouse]

Clearly the work of...

Special Branch.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Scent Marking

Animals have been scent marking on trees for millennia - both to denote territory and also to advertise a recent visit. I guess city folk and the burghers may frown if security firms required their operatives to follow suit