All the US midterm-related lies to expect when you're electing

Misinformation related to tomorrow's US midterm elections hasn't slowed, according to security researchers.  This includes more misleading election ads on Google, as well "alternate facts" about voting systems manufacturers, all of which aims to cast doubt on election results, according to two reports published today.  Lies …

[Anonymous Coward]

Dems preparing for loss?

So now it is looking likely the dems will lose the house and senate they are preparing the 'it was hacked' story:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/07/6-election-security-threats-to-watch-for-on-election-day-00065277

TL:DR "2020 secure cos we won, 2022 at risk cos we might lose'.

This is Politico, they

It was the same before they won in 2020.

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobuchar-wyden-and-pocan-investigate-vulnerabilities-and-shortcomings-of-election-technology-industry-with-ties-to-private-equity

Then it was 'the most secure election in history'.

Please make up your minds!

[DrSunshine0104]

Re: Dems preparing for loss?

Who is they and are they actually unified? You link to Elizabeth Warren's press release and article written by an unrelated reporter, both which seems to have slightly different thesis. I think it is a bit broad to say 'they' (implied Democrats) from your two examples.

Warren et al. are asking election equipment companies how they plan to protect elections while they consider financial considerations, their threat mitigation plans, etc. They are conducting oversight, which is their job.

The article, which seems to have no partisan narrative, is illuminating possible threats to the election process that the author has identified.

Finding and mitigating threats are not the same thing as a threat actually realised. There are lots of threats in our lives that remain possibilities and are not actually experienced. We buy insurance or wear seat belts, even if it is the safest car in the world(TM). We search for civilization ending meteors even though we will likely all be long dead before it happens again.

It is not a contradiction for Democrats to highlight risks to the election system but then determine an election was secure. If the election was compromised there was a certainty a flaw in the election process. But it does not follow that if an election was secure there were no threats. And this kind of thinking and lack of critical thinking is why American democracy is on the ropes

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dems preparing for loss?

"If the election was compromised there was a certainty a flaw in the election process. But it does not follow that if an election was secure there were no threats. And this kind of thinking and lack of critical thinking is why American democracy is on the rope"

Ah yes, 'American Democracy'. Translation: 'Democrat total(itarian) rule'.

After 2020 Warren and co quickly went quiet on the whole 'voting machines can be hacked' story and parroted the party line of most secure election ever. The two things I posted are not linked, they are just examples of how the dems cry the sky is falling until they win. Any suggestion from the 'bad side' that voting machines were vulnerable was quickly shut down as 'conspiracy theory'.

The current cry is that somehow people voting is a threat to democracy as the people might not vote for them. How dare people not vote for us! :)

[Someone Else]

Re: Dems preparing for loss?

You are a troll and I claim my $5.

_{Now shut the fuck up and git offa my lawn!}

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dems preparing for loss?

Nah, just a deplorable.

[Toni the terrible]

Re: Dems preparing for loss?

Republican tolatarian rule, it fell that way after Bush Snr

[John Smith 19]

Republican tolatarian rule, it fell that way after Bush Snr

Upvoted for putting your signature to your post.

But having watched Christian Bale in "Vice" I do think Cheyney's comments that Trumpf is the greatest threat to democracy that America has ever faced should be taken seriously.

He is, after all, a man who knows a fair bit about hi-jacking a government to serve his own personal agenda.

The difference is those ends were something beyond "Because I can."

I beleive every country gets the leaders it deserves.

Not wants. Not needs. What it deserves. IOW if America is truly as great as it says, it should have a great election process that elects great leaders routinely

I leave American readers to decide if that's a fair description of their system as it is, and if not what to do about it.

[Someone Else]

Re: Republican tolatarian rule, it fell that way after Bush Snr

Not wants. Not needs. What it deserves. IOW if America is truly as great as it says, it should have a great election process that elects great leaders routinely

Good point, Mr. John Smith 19 (from Anytown, USA?). I do believe the US election process¹ is good, possibly bordering on great. It is (in spite of the bleatings of a certain class of scheissters) rather difficult to subvert. That said, no process can overcome the Brownian-like effect of a large number of doofusim that infect live among the general populace².

_{¹Well, with the pointed exception of the "Electoral College".}

_{²You work in IT, you should already know this. So please excuse me for stating the bleedin' obvious.}

[John Smith 19]

"I do believe the US election process1 is good, possibly bordering on great. "

No actually I'm from "Everyplaceelse" that's not America.

And the "Electorial College" is specifically the part I think is completely unnecessary in the 21st century.

It's basically how Trumpf won in 2016.

Trump didn't just lose the popular vote in 2020. He lost it in 2016 as well (but the Republicans didn't sound like a pack of bleating, entitled b**chs then because "their"* man won).

Why have it when it is possible to communicate election results directly through this new-fangled "telephone" apparatus, or something like it.

And that's before we get to the campaigns of systematic disenfranchisement of certain state Governors and their willing state legislators.

BAU got the US voters Reagan, Bush, Shrub and Trumpf. The last two among the worst IHMO.

*From what I know of Republican principles and how they map to trump he's RINO.

[Someone Else]

Re: "I do believe the US election process1 is good, possibly bordering on great. "

The Electoral College is completely unnecessary in any century. Its purpose was to give the landed gentry of the fledgling US of North America the possibility of overturning the will of the unwashed masses in this newfangled "democratic republic" thing they were trying on for size. It was kinda necessary in order to get the "Founding Fathers" of the fatass variety (we had them then, too...) to ratify the Constitution. No one dared to actually try using the Electoral College in that way until about 2 years ago. But getting rid of it will be difficult, as that will require a Constitutional amendment, and Constitutional amendments are rather difficult in the best of times (which these aren't...).

_{Oh, and the "Anytown USA" thing was an ob. Firesign Theater reference...}

[Jaybus]

Re: "I do believe the US election process1 is good, possibly bordering on great. "

First of all, the Electoral College certainly was not about the landed gentry overturning the will of the unwashed masses. Who could vote was left to the state legislatures, and in general, only those paying property tax could vote. There was no income tax. Those who were not landowners were not considered to have a stake in funding government, so therefore did not get a vote. Basically, only the landed gentry voted, wherever they lived.

Don't forget that these were state governments joining together into a republic, but wanting to retain as much sovereignty as they could. The more populous states, those containing the large cities, Philadelphia, New Your, Boston, Norfolk, wanted a popular vote, because of course they did. It gave them a better chance of electing a homeboy as the President of the republic. Some of the smaller more rural states wanted the Congress to select a President with no popular vote at all. They feared (rightfully so) that every President would hail from Philly or New York and they would have little say in the matter. Hence the compromise. It still holds true today, really. If you don't think so, have a look at the NY Times 2020 election results map by voting district and note the small blue metro areas in a sea of red rural areas, and that was a year when the Democrat candidate won.

[John Smith 19]

6 thumbs down?

Well I think we've found the infiltrators from the Russian troll farm and the truly deluded Trupffists. An excellent result.

Or then again maybe they're Merkins that actually believe they have "The Greatest" political system in the world.

In which case....

ROTFLMFAO to that. :-)

I have never seen a system that can't stand some improving.

But I do see some hope. :-(

A fair number of Trumpf's personally annointed coterie of "special" believers in his personal belief system got their a**es whipped by better (or maybe just saner) candidates.

Ron DiSantis's strong showing in Florida might convince Republican High Command that Trumpf is not necessary for victory .

A view Trumpf of course will dispute (beyond the fact that I suspect that while he's happy having them tend his grounds, make his beds and cook his food he's less happy having them run for "his" office, despite the huge wad of cash in the DiSantis bank account. Trumpfs support amongst blue collar whites has always amused me. Like he'd even let them through the side door. )

I do hope the Republicans go with DiSantis and Trumpf decides to prove his "natural" superiority by fighting as an Independent.

How much trouble will Fox News have deciding who to champion? How good a friend of Trumpf's is old Rupe when there's all sorts of new laws to be passed to let the rich rape the economy with even less fear of punishment....

Cheerybye for now....

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 6 thumbs down?

I'm confused cos Trumpf is a German company that makes machine tools.

[MrDamage]

Re: Dems preparing for loss?

Classic projection from CONservatives."If we can't win by cheating, the other side must be cheating more!!1111oneone!1!"

[elip]

Hah! Yes indeed...apparently the election-is-going-to-be-hacked mis-information is coming from the 'right wing' according to this article...hmmmm...let us see what they say after the GOP sweeps. I'm going to guess the 'left-wing' will be the one spreading the 'election was hacked' mis-information as they did during their Russiagate years.

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that dems have NEVER claimed an election they lost was in any way iffy nor have they ever encouraged public unrest in any form against people they don't like.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you forget a <sarcasm> tag or are you being serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

Very much sarcasm :) Dem politicians went on the news encouraging political violence and Hillary has never stopped complaining about not being president.

[elip]

We're two years away, and Hillary's already warning the world that Republicans have a plan to steal the 2024 election:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hillary-says-gop-planning-to-steal-2024-election

[Anonymous Coward]

She is just sore :) But also she was very much 'Its my turn' entitled about the whole thing. She didn't campaign in many of the flyover states, assumed women would vote for her 'just because' and the clinton foundation is just a touch iffy.

[Drew Scriver]

Didn't the e-mail from the Democrats National Convention that was published by hackers (Russian or otherwise) reveal that the DNC had actively worked to sabotage the Bernie Sanders campaign - in favor of Hillary Clinton?

If I recall correctly this lead to resignation of the Chair of the DNC (Debbie Wasserman-Schultz) only days before the annual conference of the DNC.

[Oglethorpe]

That's not electoral fraud because the primaries are completely internal affairs, conducted by a private organisation. Electoral fraud is a very specific crime, relating to public elections. At worst, if it were proven to be true, the DNC would have had to make some promise about fair primaries when soliciting donations, then they might be guilty of fraud; however, they haven't to my knowledge, ever made this promise.

On the other hand, leaking private information, especially that which affects national security is a crime and it was clearly done to influence the 2016 election.

[Anonymous Coward]

The DNC may be private but the outcome of the primaries does affect the US at large. The way the tories pick the next idiot in charge has been subject to much complaint from non-members. (and it is a really stupid system!! The toffs get to pick the next top toff)

[Oglethorpe]

You can complain all you want, you can even write a complainey letter; that's your right. They have the right to ignore you and anyone else who isn't in their chain of leadership. If you don't like it, don't vote for them or make donations.

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that to the twitter-ers posting about the 'unelected PM, general election now' :)

Ignoring the fact we don't vote for the PM at a GE anyway..

[Oglethorpe]

I was talking about the DNC. The tories are another matter.

[John Brown (no body)]

"The way the tories pick the next idiot in charge has been subject to much complaint from non-members."

How many non-members of the Labour got to vote in their leadership elections? There may be some minor procedural differences, but that's pretty much how all parties elect their leaders.

[Drew Scriver]

This is incorrect - the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 (and amendments) does in fact deal with both primary and general elections.

[crayon]

"Didn't the e-mail from the Democrats National Convention that was published by hackers reveal that the DNC had actively worked to sabotage the Bernie Sanders campaign - in favor of Hillary Clinton?"

Yes, but with compliant media they managed to change the narrative to "the Russians did it (leaked emails)" and their (DNC) misdeeds were pointedly ignored.

As summarised here:

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2020/05/13/hidden_over_2_years_dem_cyber-firms_sworn_testimony_it_had_no_proof_of_russian_hack_of_dnc_123596.html

The head honcho of the company given the task of investigating the leaks admitted there was zero evidence of exfiltration (by Russians or otherwise).

[Anonymous Coward]

And wasn't it called a good thing when wikileaks leaks the details of things like American troops firing on and killing journalists and then trying to cover it up?

[Tom 38]

We're two years away, and Hillary's already warning the world that Republicans have a plan to steal the 2024 election:

Maybe it's because of the Republican Secretary of State candidates running in 2022 who are openly running on the premise that if elected they will help fix the 2024 election? They are literally saying they have a plan to steal the 2024 election!

When my coalition of secretary of state candidates around the country get elected we're going to fix the whole country and President Trump is going to be president again in 2024 - Jim Marchant, Nevada Secretary of State candidate

I will protect the elections from the Steal, and make sure that Arizona is the Red State it REALLY is! - Mark Finchem, Arizona Secretary of State candidate

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I thought, but all the upvotes kind of threw me off. You may have received the highest number of unintended upvotes in the history of El Reg. lol.

And don't forget Algore...there's still bitterness there as well.

[Citizen of Nowhere]

Still, she publicly conceded to her opponent, attended his inauguration and indeed refrained from fomenting a mob attack on the US Capitol. All a bit fact-y that though I suppose.

[Anonymous Coward]

Her supporters still tried to burn DC down and some rather public figures talked about murdering Trump or blowing up the white house.

[cmdrklarg]

Let's see some citations. Most likely more projection and lies from a troll.

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87uZ_atahP8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVQ7LBo3V-U

https://youtu.be/TFO95zzCciE?t=86

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsedPIR14S8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQYVtaNS1kQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjnX4IUt_eo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUqxX0YAafg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCDe7vdFfw

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you live under a large spacious rock or a small cozy rock?

[John Smith 19]

Let's see some citations. Most likely more projection and lies from a troll.

Indeed.

Lots of people posting AC here.

Lots of suspicous "conversations" between one named and one AC.

IOW

Добро пожаловать, товарищи, фабрика русских троллей

[Citizen of Nowhere]

I watched the first video, and when I stopped laughing … I didn’t watch the rest.

[cmdrklarg]

Nothing but projection from the AC trolls today I see.

[gecho]

"let us see what they say after the GOP sweeps"

They'll still say there was election fraud and just complain about their margin of victory. They are equal opportunity d-bags, sore winners and sore losers.

[DS999]

Whether republicans have big gains or democrats hold both houses there will be individual races that that will be close. The republican lie machine will claim those races were stolen. Heck, they will probably claim races in urban areas where democrats win by 20 points were fraud and that republicans actually won every race in the country and every democrat victory from senator to dog catcher was fraudulent.

Electing the kind of people who would make those claims with a straight face is the plan for 2022, so that they can "win" all the races everywhere in 2024. The republicans who are just going along with it all because it means they win too will be sorely disappointed, because the power behind the takeover (Trump and Murdoch) don't have republican values, they have their own narrow interests that will drive the autocracy they crave.

98% of the current republican party will be left behind, because once they have their people in place to certify false election results they no longer need to care about the interests of the republican electorate. When votes don't matter you don't have to listen to any voters anywhere, ever again. So since neither Trump nor Murdoch are religious in any way, god will be forgotten. An autocracy has no interest in an armed populace, so forget about the second amendment too.

[SundogUK]

Complete rubbish.

[Anonymous Coward]

"An autocracy has no interest in an armed populace, so forget about the second amendment too."

This is why people need to vote MAGA and get the establishment GOP and Dems out of office.

The establishment have no interest in solving the problems of normal america. They are happy taking in millions from donors to keep the status quo.

[Doctor Tarr]

“The establishment have no interest in solving the problems of normal america.”

Do you believe that Trump has any interest solving the problems of ’normal America’? He’s just interested in his own power and staying out of jail.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, he is just a tool to help tear down the system.

[Anonymous Coward]

at least you tried, first bit is right, he is a fucking tool!

but not in the good way.

[Anonymous Coward]

He's not going to jail any more than Clinton. Or any of the corrupt members of congress. Or the entrenched corrupt civil "servants" who are never elected, yet somehow hold high and powerful political offices for decades. (The Monstrous John Bolton, for example.) It amazes me that our citizenry still believes these fairy tales. Leading the populace is about manipulation and cheerleading a team.

[Pirate Dave]

Man, I thought we conservatives had a corner on the conspiracy-theory market thanks to Papa Trump's non-stop bullshit, but looks like the liberals aren't far behind. Who is your "Trump" that's feeding you all this fantasyland stuff?

[elip]

Yes, it has been a wild ride since 2016, watching the right wing and left wing completely reverse their long-standing opinions. I don't know what's up or down anymore.

[Pirate Dave]

Yeah, it's hard to follow sometimes. I've found it's easier to be lazy and be a single-issue voter, and since I'm a gun-hoarding-fetishist, I let that become my single issue. Abortion, prayer in school, drug legalization, illegal immigrants, etc, etc., I don't get too worked up about. 2A issues, I do, and the economy, since that's how I fund my gun-fetish. The rest, I'm sort of "meh" about. I could get on board with a few of the more moderate Democrat ideas around "the environment", but they will never, ever fully support gun-rights like the Republicans claim to, and want to go the opposite way about it really, so that's out.

[DS999]

They are openly admitting this - the republican candidate for governor said "if I'm elected the republican party will never lose another election in Wisconsin". When have you ever heard a politician make a promise like that before? It is pretty clear what he meant.

When asked repeatedly during debates or interviews they won't say they will accept the results of any election, except if they win. They are running for the positions of power that certify elections as open election deniers who claim Trump won in 2020. Do you think there is any world in which they will certify the results of a democratic win in 2024 regardless of the margin? They didn't need evidence to believe there was fraud in 2020, so they won't need it in 2024.

The only thing that might stop them is lawsuits - if judges intervene and order them to certify the results. But they might decide the constitution says that's up to states to decide however they want, and if their law allows a governor or secretary of state to certify a different winner than the total of certified votes from an election then they can't stop them. I mean, I would hope they would at least rule if a state wants to decide winners outside the democratic process, that they must first dispense with the sham of an election they will ignore. But we'll see.

2022 will be a dry run with different attempts to override the results of voters in different states, but if one or more succeeds they will supply the blueprint for all states in which election denying republicans have control over the levers in those states. If they have control in states with a majority of electoral votes, democracy may end in January 2025.

This should terrify those who live outside the US, even those who are conservative and in favor of Trump's policies, because Trump as an autocrat with complete control of the US military and economy will throw the world into chaos.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Trump as an autocrat with complete control of the US military and economy will throw the world into chaos."

Okay....

Bush = BIG war

Obama = Crimea lost to Putin

Trump = no new wars

Biden = invasion of Ukraine

I remember dems screaming about WW3 under Trump. Now we are heading towards it under Biden.

[Pirate Dave]

I'll admit, I don't take issue with the first 90% of your post. But that last paragraph is pure paranoia.

Even if Trump wins in 2024, by January of 2029 he has to leave the White House and never return again as President/Comander in Chief. That is the law, and I don't think the small ragtag band of his most fervent supporters (who couldn't even successfully commandeer a soft target like the US Capitol for more than a couple of hours) will be able to change that.

Sorry, somebody is stoking the fires of fear in you guys and filling your head full of dystopian fiction.

[Anonymous Coward]

If Trump does win a 2nd in term I'd expect repealing the 22nd amendment to be high on his ToDo list. Putin and Xi Jinping managed it, the orange wonder won't be left out.

[Pirate Dave]

So he'd have to first get Congress to agree to it, or get 33 or 34 of the 50 States to hold a Constitutional Convention to propose it.

Then it would have to be ratified by 38 States.

That ain't happening in any of our lifetimes, much less Trump's. If he couldn't even get the Governor and Sec of State here in Georgia to fudge voting numbers for him in 2020, then there's scant chance he could ram an entire Amendment through. He doesn't have that much political savy or clout.

[John Smith 19]

..get Congress to agree to it,..34 of the 50 States to hold a..Convention to propose it.

If you were dealling with a normal politician you might be right.

The actual process is quite simple. It's called an "Act of Enablement"

"We thank you for your service. You can go home now. You're not needed any more"

But only a psychopath would consider behaving in such a way, wouldn't he?

[John Brown (no body)]

"That is the law,"

Question from not in the USA. Is it the law that someone can only ever serve two terms across their entire life or is it that they can only serve two consecutive terms?

[Pirate Dave]

Two terms in a lifetime, is my understanding. And I'm guessing near-death resuscitation doesn't restart the count, either.

[John Brown (no body)]

Thanks, I just did quick search. Looks like few tried for more than two terms although limiting to two terms was more a gentleman's agreement in the past, Teddy Roosevelt tried for a third and lost, only FDR had almost four terms, dying in office and the 22nd amendment happened in 1952 limiting it to two term whether consecutive or not.

[DS999]

Even if Trump can't rig things in enough states to be able to repeal the 22nd amendment he could have a couple puppets run and get himself appointed Speaker of the House. You don't have to be a representative to be Speaker, nor do you have to preside, but you are third in the order of succession. The two puppets resign after they take the oath and bingo he's president again.

The 22nd amendment only says you can't be elected for more than two terms, it says nothing about serving more than two terms.

Of course that assumes the puppets actually follow through, one or the other could decide not to resign and have all those juicy autocratic powers so while it would work in theory it may not work in practice. If one of them decided to seize power for himself Trump wouldn't be able to stop him.

It wouldn't matter (other than to Trump, and I suppose those dumb enough to believe he's some sort of great man of destiny unique among all others) whether Trump stayed in office beyond 2028, once democracy is gone it wouldn't come back. Some other dictator would replace him, almost certainly someone even worse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't there also a 10 year lifetime limit? A VP who becomes president on the death or incapacity of the incumbent can then be elected as president once, but can only run for a second elected term if they served less than 2 years in their first unelected term.

[Anonymous Coward]

They need term limits for the house and senate. Get rid of some of the dead wood.

[DS999]

While I agree, we have far more pressing problems like ending gerrymandering (have an open source computer program that selects maximally compact districts along existing county/city lines where possible draw districts for all 50 states) and setting equitable voting standards across the country (i.e. require showing ID, but with rules in place that don't raise the bar too much for poor people who may not have original documents like birth certificates to GET an ID) and mandate equal numbers of voting machines available per capita in all places so people in poor areas aren't standing in line for hours while rich suburbanites and rural voters can walk in and vote in five minutes.

And only allow individuals to contribute money to political campaigns or to any organization putting out ads of a political nature within six months of an election, with their names and contribution amounts public record. No corporation, union, non-profit, or any other "group" of individuals should be allowed to contribute a penny to a campaign. Why should corporations be able to have their management choose who to contribute to, against the will of the owners i.e. their stockholders? Why should members of a union have their dues going towards contributing to politicians they don't agree with? The idea that "corporations are people" and have free speech rights was one of the stupidest Supreme Court decisions ever, but if that's what they have decided we need an amendment to fix that.

Once those things are done, the advantage incumbents have would be seriously reduced, and we may not need term limits.

[Anonymous Coward]

They will never stop the corporate donations, they make too much money from it under the table. The dark money on going to both sides is just incredible. It is supposed to be a government of the people for the people.

[DS999]

Read the text of the 22nd amendment, it only talks about restrictions on being elected to office, and handling those currently in office when the amendment goes into force. There is nothing about any "10 year lifetime limit".

Since Trump's handpicked candidates mostly failed yesterday his chances of being nominated again are down, and there are fewer election deniers in positions of power than feared. So things went a lot better than they could have for people who believe the US should remain a democracy with free and fair elections.

[Doctor Tarr]

The Russians did interfere with previous elections and are doing it in these mid terms. They're quite proud of it.

A quote from Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin “we interfered, we are interfering and we will interfere,” Prigozhin, who has previously been accused of influencing the outcome of elections across continents, said in a statement posted by his catering company, Concord. “Carefully, precisely, surgically and the way we do it, the way we can,” Prigozhin, 61, added.

[Uncle Slacky]

Payback's a bitch:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/07/the-us-has-a-long-history-of-election-meddling/565538/

https://archive.org/details/TimeUSMeddlingOnRussia

[elip]

He may think highly or himself, but buying some Facebook and Twitter ads, isn't very serious interference.

[Drew Scriver]

Virtually every country meddles in the business of other countries, and understandably so.

And, of course, every country tries to thwart meddling into their own affairs.

In my experience this meddling is only condemned if it doesn't suit their own position, though. To wit - a number of years ago a contingent of young people from a certain western European nation traveled to the US to help the campaign of their chosen candidate. Since this trip was partially funded by an established political party this was illegal under US election law.

Unsurprisingly, the party leaders did not act when they were alerted to this issue.

[Boork!]

The Russians posted inflammatory adverts and fake news supporting (and defaming) both parties. They weren't particularly partisan, they just wanted to cause chaos and sit back and laugh at the mayhem they had bought so cheaply.

[John Smith 19]

they just wanted to cause chaos

This.

Remember one thing.

Dictators don't just hate democracy.

They fear it.

And they should.

Putin is 1 man. He can only bribe or terrorise so many people. He can command obediance. To so far. For so long. But loyalty? Are you f**king kidding me?

Trumpf and his coterie of blatantly-self-interested fellow travellers are just the same.

[Someone Else]

Hey elip -- How'd that "GOP sweep" go for ya?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Google is still serving up misleading ads" At least "we" know it.... but 90% of the people are suckers to googles political manipulation. To bad they are above the law.

I'm old, I know all the people are corrupt, so for the last 8 year I write in cartoon characters. I go in, vote, and leave. Knowing I have contributed as much as anyone else.

[jake]

4chan still exists?

Who knew?

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: 4chan still exists?

Maybe Musk will make an offer for it :-)

[stiine]

Re: 4chan still exists?

It hasn't been the same since Christopher "Moot" Poole sold it.

[martinusher]

One thing all the election deniers have in common....

...is that they've never worked an election. That's how you get all this misinformation, its all speculation and wild theory stirred up into a froth of nonsense. The voting systems are tight and its easy to detect irregularities from voting statistics, exit polls and so on. You can easily detect fraudulent and invalid ballots so those "2000 mules" type theories just don't work. Its all BS.

What is not BS is the ways that elections are gamed. The ballot may be counted fairly but if you're in a position to disqualify or corral a significant segment of what may well be opposition supporters then you don't need to fiddle the count. There's also the role of money buying everything in sight from PACs through so called Dark Money, media control to help with propaganda -- all sorts of well known, tried and tested techniques to herd an electorate. (Overseas also use techniques like banning candidates, opposition parties and so on - we haven't quite arrived there in the US. Yet.) All in all, it gives us in the US "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy".

...and of course we need more and more Republicans in office. They're like the Conservatives in the UK (they use the same media consultants, ads and what have you anyway). It doesn't matter what kind of scewups they are, how incompetent, venal and downright dishonest they are, they're born to rule. And a gullible population lets them. And then complains loudly about the result, occasionally votes in 'the other lot' and then gripes (or are told to gripe) loudly when things to turn into nirvana overnight. They get what they deserve.....

[jake]

Re: One thing all the election deniers have in common....

"they're born to rule"

In the same sense that Judas goats rule the sheep, of course.

Get off your arses and VOTE, America. But please: THINK before you vote.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: One thing all the election deniers have in common....ever seen a US big city election up close?

I'd guess not. Boy do we have stories...

I grew up with war stories about Tammany Hall, the Mayor Daley machine in Chicago etc and back in the 1980's I was lucky enough to get to hear firsthand about life in the trenches of NYC Council Member politics back in the 1930's. From someone who was there. One of LaGuardias right hand men pushing through reforms.

So dodgy big city elections in party machine cities has been part of the political landscape for at least 180 years. There have been some great insider books published in the last century or so. Art Samishs book - The Boss of California is still my favorite. Thats how big city politics really works.

So the suburban districts votes are mostly straight. Most of the rural ones too. Except when old style one party populists ran districts back before the great realignment. The book "American Demagogues" from 1959 is a rollicking read and shows there is nothing new about stolen elections and political charlatans. On the left and right. In both parties.

As for big city elections if the city is party machine the elections results have large amounts of fraud. One way or another. Always have. Thats the way city machines work. 2020 was no different. 45 states were the usual level of voting shenanigans. But the 5 big cities (all party machine cities for many decades) in 5 states, which just happened to be the 5 swing states, the level of manipulation of the results reached levels that was just taking the piss. You could get away with this in generation past, and it happened a whole bunch of times in the last 200 years, but now with the media gatekeepers gone..

As for the voting machines. The severe audit problem was known many decades ago. The New Yorker even ran a long article on the subject back in the 1980's. Nothing new. To those who were paying attention.

So anyone who is not a a party hack who uses the term " Election Denier" is by very definition someone who hasn't a clue about how US big city elections works, is totally ignorant of US political and election history, and almost always a low information Gentry Democrat Bubble person. This is the way the game has always been played. In the period 1870's to 1910's it was the Republican Party that had the big city party machine game down pat. From 1930's to 1980's it was the Democrats. The big problem since then is the big city party machines have been taken over by clueless '68'ers and no longer have the pragmatic core of ideological free ward politicians. Who knew how to keep cities running and not let things spiral out of control. Hence the current mayhem in cities like Chicago, San Francisco, LA etc

Buy hey, thats politics for you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: One thing all the election deniers have in common....ever seen a US big city election up close?

Oh, hey. Another person who has seen electioneering up close at the polls. Election Denier is an incredibly stupid phrase. I hate it. They know absolutely nothing about the history of "our democracy". Elections have long been a game and when there is a big game with money at stake, there will be cheating.

It starts at the local level and most people don't have a clue who they are voting for when they tick, pull or click for their local politics. Take away the option to vote slate for a single party (as just happened in PA) and it's going to get interesting. The corruption tends to be mitigated in small towns and rural areas for two reasons - 1. Everybody knows, or is related to, each other personally in a 6 (reduced to 3) degrees of separation kind of way. 2. Politicians can't keep their yaps shut and gossip is quick and harsh.

Most people don't know that you can vote for "none of these clowns". Leave a blank space and register your displeasure with the candidates.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: One thing all the election deniers have in common....ever seen a US big city election up close?

Big city politics was always a full contact sport. Played for keeps. In some cities keeps is more final than others.

I always found it very funny when talking to people with loud opinions about politics that at least when it came to the city they lived in they almost never had a clue what was going on locally in politics. Name the current mayor? Nope. Name the most recent big city scandal (there will always be one). Nope. But they had lots of opinions on the "Big Issues". Which never had much of an impact locally. Or on their day to day life. So when it came to city, state elections they just voted the "party line" without having the slightest idea what they were voting for. Because they were politically engaged and knew the issues and "Their Party Had All The Answers". And the other Party was "Evil Incarnate". Yeah, low information political drones.

People who actually know how politics works, and which politics actually matters, know their city / county politics inside out. Will have a very good idea about state politics and who the current biggest scoundrels at the state level are. And will have a polite interest in national / Federal politics because most of the time it will have little impact on your life. And when it does it will nearly always be bad and there is little that can be done about it anyway.

So when it comes to real life politics not the media created simulacrum what happens in City Hall really matters. What happens in the State House is often important. What happens in DC? Who cares. It 2000 miles away and the political kabuki has changed little in the last 200 years. Once a swamp, always a swamp. Although I preferred it when it was a malarial swamp.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: One thing all the election deniers have in common....ever seen a US big city election up close?

Politics - its all shit. My uncle was a member of the group that got Jimmy Carter nominated and elected president. They spent quite a lot of money making that happen.

[Slx]

I've given up even attempting to analyse or understand contemporary US politics.

[Caver_Dave]

I ask my American colleagues (who are all university graduates at various levels) to answer some questions I have about US politics.

Nearly all questions are replied with a Gaelic shrug.

[TimMaher]

Re:- Gaelic shrug.

Are they all Irish?

I’ll get my coat. It’s the green one.

[MJI]

Think before you vote

And that is NOT what the Russuan troll factories are telling you to.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Think before you vote

I thought it was the 4chan memes you should ignore?

https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2022/09/january-6-insurrection-meme-wars/671397/

Seriously some of the election stuff is not based in reality. NPR had one of their reporters follow a woman while she underwent 'healthcare'. You could hear the wet'n'dry vac as it removed the 'clump of cells' (actually two as it was twins) during the 'healthcare' procedure. The whole thing was supposed to be about how easy this 'healthcare' is but I'm not sure that is the message they put across.

[navarac]

Disclaimer: I'm not a US Voter.

To me, an outsider, it all seems as though US politicians have Xi / Putin envy. They see these autocrats getting away with shit, and think they can as well. I feel sorry for "normal" US voters having to put up with these despots. Far too much corruption and cash sloshing around in the system.

[Blank Reg]

The Supreme Court made corruption legal when they said companies are people too and cash is free speech.

What idiots

[Lars]

"it all seems as though US politicians have Xi / Putin envy".

It's the result of a two party system where the goal is always a one party system.

But the envy for Putin was indeed very strong with Trump, perhaps still.

[Anonymous Coward]

Registro de votantes

That would be"voter registrar" (a noun) rather than "register to vote" (a verb in the imperative mood).

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Registro de votantes

Maybe American "Spanish" is like American "English". Almost, but not entirely unlike the original version :-)

[Potemkine!]

"Dominion Voting Systems,"

This is obviously a plot by Aliens from the Gamma quadrant.

== Bring us Dabbsy back! ==

[Ryan D]

I keep hearing the BOFH in the background- American elections =dummy mode on.

Watching these political weasels spout the type of absolute bold face lies just seems to prove that you can baffle them with bullshite.

[Spazturtle]

For years cybersecurity experts have been telling us that electronic voting is a bad idea and is full of security issues.

Are we really now defending this companies simply because the republicans attacked them?

These companies exist purely to suck as much money out of governments by selling them a lie.

Pen and paper as we have in the UK remains the far better method of voting.

[elip]

No doubt. Go nuts with electronic voting machines, as long as we have a printed paper receipt at the end of the process, and we audit the papertrail, not just the 'infallible' electronic machines. Matt Blaze has done a lot of work on this. He must now be a far-right fascist though.

[Anonymous Coward]

Alas for national differences...

The trouble is, our UK elections are very simple - you are usually voting for a single position to be filled.

In the cases where there is more than one ballot, there is a separate ballot paper for each post, but the overall process is still very simple - the biggest number of ballots I can recall is three, and that only happened once.

Either way, the ballots are very easy to count - there's a limited number of positions (usually one) and they are on seperate sheets, so are easy to count manually.

In the US, (US persons please correct me here) there are multiple different positions on a single ballot paper (The example on Wikipedia had five separate positions on a single page). This is not so easy to count manually.

Also, what elip said - Internet voting is a bad idea, electronic voting machines less so provided they are designed right...

[cmdrklarg]

Re: Alas for national differences...

I can only speak of how Minnesota does ballots. This year's is a two pager with multiple races listed. Many are running unopposed, but they still have them in case of write-in votes.

You use a pen to fill in the oval next to your chosen candidates (like a scantron sheet). When done, you feed the ballot through the scanner, which counts your votes electronically, but the ballot itself is still available for a hand count if needed. Elections that are within a certain amount get recounted automatically (contests within .5% IIRC).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Alas for national differences...

Stories are coming out that the scanners are not working in Arizona.

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

Re: Alas for national differences...

I voted a few times in Minnesota: 1998 (absentee, at college), 2002, and 2004.

I voted once in Milwaukee, Wisconsin: 2000 (they let full-year college students register and vote)

Since then, I have voted in Michigan.

I recall that all three systems have been very similar (if not the exact same) as you describe: mark something, scan, retain the thick-paper ballot in a locked box for verification, and the scanner/counter machine provides counts. If the machine thinks you did something wrong on the ballot (marked too many or stray marks), it spits it back at you and the counts are not affected!

I have heard the data log (anywhere from full ballot scan log to only final counts) is exported to USB. If done right, with some kind of crypto signature that is then verified by the receiving end, this ensures votes were reported to municipal HQ correctly and not tampered during the process.

I assume not even the poll workers present could reset the scanner/counter to zero -- they'd come that way from municipal HQ and verified before the poll opens -- but if someone did the workers could just rerun all ballots. If the machines don't have code to tamper with ("adjust") votes, it wouldn't be possible unless someone "hacked" it and inserted new code on the machine itself. Good luck doing that on the ballot floor in front of the voting public!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Alas for national differences...

Why not just count by hand? Is doing that once every four years (or whatever) too much of a chore?

[PRR]

Re: Alas for national differences...

> Go nuts with electronic voting machines, as long as we have a printed paper receipt at the end of the process, and we audit the papertrail, not just the 'infallible' electronic machines.

In Maine we get pre-printed paper and a clean pen. And stand-up desks with baffles so we can't cheat from the other guy's paper. (Yes one sit-down for the wheelchairs.) We make ink-marks in little ovals to note our choices. Then there is a special scanner. Probably adapted from standardized test technology. Like cmdrklarg's post about of how Minnesota does it.

I stick the paper in, it sucks it up, and lights "OK". We are told the paper goes into a locked metal box, the literal paper trail. Meantime some digi-bits are put on digital storage devices, locked, collected by bonded messengers or State Police, and taken to Augusta for first-count.

NONE of this is on-line! It has been in place before that was an on-line in most of Maine. It is sometimes operated by elderly dears who don't do on-line.

Yes, this could be cheated, except-- here in rural Maine I am only seven degrees away from anybody in town, including the election watchers and workers. They may be my mechanic's daughter, or my supermarket clerk, or the agent I sold my last house through. I know Janet's family votes her way early and often, but so does the Inn's family, and it balances. (Kin counts for more than party.)

The first-count may be informally reported in several days. The official certification will be a month or more, and then maybe re-counts.

> In the US, ...there are multiple different positions on a single ballot paper....

I just voted and still have my cheat-sheet in my pocket. Yes, usually I can remember my preferences but this was slightly busy.

State Governor (3 people running, never heard of one of them)

US Representative (rank choice, 3 runners, an R and a D and an I)

State Senator

State Representative

County Judge of Probate (unopposed)

County Registrar of Deeds (unopposed)

County Sheriff (unopposed)

County Treasurer (unopposed)

District Attorney

9 openings for 16 people is rather a lot, but not unusual. The large number of unopposed is a little odd; especially Sheriff (county law enforcement top bureaucrat) which has a different sort of power and the incumbent has stirred controversy, for action and for inaction.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Alas for national differences...you're lucky

Its an off year election so the voters guide is only 239 pages this year and the handy worksheet at the end for all the city, state and federal stuff is only 3 pages long. Not many city and state propositions this time. Only 22. So fits on one page. Sometimes it can be at least two pages just of propositions. I think the longest voters guide was a good 400 plus pages. The size of a healthy mail-order catalogue.

[John Smith 19]

Are we really now defending this companies simply because the republicans attacked them?

No.

Because in protecting their reputaion they are the only people putting serious money into stopping the torrent of utter Bu***hit being spouted across multipe social media channels and forcing (some) of those to take a hit where it counts.

In their rather surprisingly capacious wallets.

Voting "machines" is lipstick on a pig.

IMHO and (speaking as a non US resident) you have an electorial process that worked fine where "High speed data" was man-on-horseback.

In the 3rd decade of the 21st century you can do much better. The long-winded process, the "Electorial college" that gave Trumpf the 2016. And (as an outsider) WTF is the mid-term election with all the HofR seats contested about? FFS.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Are we really now defending this companies simply because the republicans attacked them?

The problems with eliminating the Electoral (not "Electorial") College are 1) it's part of the large-state/small-state compromise, and even though federalism has increased over the past 240 years in the US, the states are still jealous of their prerogatives; and 2) we'd also have to fix the bit in the Constitution that throws the Presidential election over to the House of Representatives if no one has a simple majority (in the EC, but if you eliminate the EC...). Because that would be a fucking disaster.

As for why all of the House is up for grabs in the mid-terms: That's how it works. The Constitution made the term for representatives 2 years, which made a bit more sense in 1789 than it does now. It would really be better to increase the term; these days reps spend most of their time campaigning for the next election, unless they're in a safe seat. And to stagger terms as the Senate's are. But getting an amendment to that effect through would be a difficult task, since the Senate probably wouldn't care for it (if only because it might diminish the difference between the upper and lower houses) and many states probably wouldn't want to gamble on it.

[Michael Wojcik]

That's part of the problem. The manufacturers of voting equipment decided that rather than being transparent and cooperating with security research, particularly regarding DRE (Direct Recording Electronic) systems, they'd do better by waging a drawn-out war with researchers. They sullied their own reputations and prepared the ground for these attacks.

DRE systems remain a terrible idea, from a security perspective. (They're supported by some groups for reasons such as accessibility, but those aims can be achieved with non-DRE systems.) The mark-sense ("pen and paper") machines, on the other hand, aren't perfect but have come through security testing with much better results. In particular, attacks against existing mark-sense machines don't scale, and don't remove the paper trail for recounts, which makes it much harder to swing even tightly-contested local elections by subverting them.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is the audit trail..as against slot machines. .

The problem with voting machines has n't changed in the last 60 years. The security problems discussed in the Nov 7 1988 article in the New Yorker have not changed in 40 years. There was an even longer article in the NY Times at the time comparing the audit standards for gaming machines in Nevada versus voting machines. Guess which was considered a total joke, security wise. If I remember correctly the money quote was from a member of the Nevada Gaming Control Board. Basically they would end up in jail if they signed off on a gaming machine that insecure. By design.

The voting machine security problem with not be fixed because its very much in the interest of the heaviest users, large cities, to keep it broken. Although Motor Voter has made election fraud a lot easier, as the final outcome in B1 Bob Dornans case actually proved even back in the 1990's (but the illegal votes result was never overturned) , the deliberately insecure postal voting systems in big states like CA make voter fraud by big city machines trivial. In the old days they had to work hard for results they needed.

I say, make them work if they want to fix the results. The old fashioned way. By hard graft and doing deals.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not My President

The thing that always annoys me is those people saying "not my president" which is an indication that the speaker has not the first idea of how democracy works

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: Not My President

Yes, that's clearly the issue with US politics. If only a minority would refrain from adopting a slogan which is not literally true! Then all of our problems would be solved.

But, hey, I understand the impulse to fret over things which are of utterly no consequence.

[aerogems]

In my opinion

If you claim an election is rigged, you should be prevented from taking office. Think about it. If an election was rigged, why should we reward the winner by installing them into office? And if you're complaining about the election being rigged, and you win, then clearly you cheated to win. So, if you claim the election is rigged, you're automatically disqualified.

[Diogenes]

Re: In my opinion

So you would be happy if your country did elections Brazilian style?

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2022/11/how-they-count-votes-in-brazil/

[Primus Secundus Tertius]

Hung parliament

If the midterm election returns a Republican congress, the US government is likely to be paralysed. If that happens, let them return authority to the rightful hands of the British Crown in London.

[wolfetone]

Re: Hung parliament

Because, if we've learnt anything over the last 2 years, the British government are an incredibly safe pair of hands.

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Re: Hung parliament

Sorry, boss, we held a binding referendum on Amerexit, and it's impossible for that to ever change.

[Toni the terrible]

Re: Hung parliament

The SNP would disagree, they lost but are going for Scotexit again

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hung parliament

Why wouldn't you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hung parliament

let them return authority to the rightful hands of the British Crown in London.

Andy will be happy to do it somewhere closer to home if y'all prefer.

[martinusher]

You don't hack the count

People who go on about voting machines and mules and what have you have never worked an election so they don't know how anything works. This leaves them free to speculate. I've worked quite a few elections and given the systems nature of my work I've been in a very good position to see if it was possible to fiddle the count and if so, how. I reckon it was difficult to do so back with the old precinct based system and just about impossible to do so with the newer centralized system. In addition, if anyone did try to do so then the anomaly would stick out like a sore thumb.

Much is made of submitting thousands of postal votes. It just won't work. Each vote has to be in an envelope and that envelope is not only tied to the voter -- individual address and bar code -- but the signature on the envelop has to match the record on file. If a voter turns up at a polling place then they'll either be turned away because their postal ballot has been processed or they'll be marked as voting locally and their postal ballot will be rejected before being processed. (Polling places are not on line to the voter database.) When you consider that ballots are non-uniform -- during the last general election we had over 180 different types in our county -- the avenues for fiddling the vote count are vanishingly small.

So the real action is in tweaking the electorate. One trick that seems to be an organized tactic is to tell your supporters to not vote by mail and then get a judge to throw out postal ballots en masse based on some presumed technical flaw. Then there's the perennial voter database cull -- throw out voter registrations because the voter is presumed to have a felony conviction and make it virtually impossible for the record to be corrected (and threaten anyone who dares to vote with serious fines and jail terms for voting illegally -- this is a Florida specialty). Personally, I reckon that if voters keep voting for governments that work against their interests then that's their own funeral -- I'm rich and white (and old) so I"m Going To Be All Right (Jack). Just don't act surprised when you get what you asked for.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: You don't hack the count..depends where you are..not a big city by the sound of it

Sounds like some of the small cities / suburban counties I know very well for many decades. Not a lot happens.

Now some of the big cities I know just as well, thats another story. How about voter reg numbers not only greater (as a percentage of potential voters) than surrounding affluent suburban counties but the number of probable citizens living in the city. For reference big cites have regs rates and voter lower turn outs than suburbs, everywhere. Or total votes cast greater than reg voters minus inactive registered voters. Or completely unique voting patterns on city tax proportions and related propositions. And city , state and Fed ballot items.

Or how about ballot boxes found floating in the Bay. And not just once. Several boxes were netted by fishermen so the ones that did not float..

Or a huge jump in percentage of one parties registered voters in one big city after Motor Voter got "improved" but not in any of the surrounding counties. That one city "new reg voters" was the margin that shot down a recall election.

That sort of stuff.

Now add to that the fact that in almost a dozen states one single big city swings the state for one party even though the rest of the state votes solidly the other way and that one single big city has been a single party machine city for several generations and you will start seeing a pattern.

Just because not much "creative voting" goes on in your quiet part of the world does not mean its not a very different story in at least two dozen big cities. And has been for generations. And unless you read the local big city media closely year in year out most of this stories tend to get buried quickly. For obvious reasons.

[Pirate Dave]

Re: You don't hack the count..depends where you are..not a big city by the sound of it

"Now add to that the fact that in almost a dozen states one single big city swings the state for one party even though the rest of the state votes solidly the other way and that one single big city has been a single party machine city for several generations and you will start seeing a pattern."

That's happening here in Georgia. Atlanta's population has grown enough to nearly outweigh the rest of the state for state-wide races like President, Senate, or Governor. Add in Savannah (which votes similarly to Atlanta) and the Democrats are practically a shoe-in. Yet county and district voting is still largely Republican outside of those two metro areas.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: You don't hack the count..depends where you are..not a big city by the sound of it

Off the top of my head and just the states I know the local politics either very well or pretty good the one city rules the state are: Washington (Seattle), Oregon (Portland) , Nevada (Las Vegas), Illinois (Chicago) , Minnesota (Minneapolis) , New York (NYC). Then you have a couple of two city states. California (SF/LA) and Pennsylvanian (Philly/Pittsburgh). And Virginia controlled by the overflow suburbs of DC. And thats just off the top of my head.

What the Red states have in common is that there is rarely a single party big city machine that swings the state. Whereas in every big Blue state the big city does.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: You don't hack the count..depends where you are..not a big city by the sound of it

Well that's either at least two people who are not in the US, or else profoundly ignorant of actual voting patterns in the states mention over the last four or five decades plus. Even a cursory look at the county voting patterns in these states will show big city counties voting one way, almost every other county in the state voting the other. The only exceptions usually being counties with big college towns. Thats why the county voting map of the US is a sea of blue with small clusters of red. Which are the big cities in question. A voting pattern which first became fixed in the current configuration back in the 1980's.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: You don't hack the count

"throw out voter registrations because the voter is presumed to have a felony conviction and make it virtually impossible for the record to be corrected"

Whoa...wait...what? It's not just those in prison who can't vote, but even those who have served their time and been released, if it was a "felony" conviction, can NEVER vote again for the rest of their lives? Or is there some sliding scale where even after release, they can eventually become a voter after some length of time has passed?

[stiine]

Re: You don't hack the count

If you are convicted of a felony, then you are no longer permitted to vote.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: You don't hack the count

So, no such thing as rehabilitation then? Doesn't the USA have one of if not the highest per capita prison populations? Sounds like there is a lot of disenfranchisement going on.

[Michael Wojcik]

Re: You don't hack the count

Yes, that is exactly what is going on.

[Pirate Dave]

Re: You don't hack the count

Or purchase/own/possess a firearm.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: You don't hack the count..felons cannot vote..nope, not true..

Not in most states.

The laws in all the states I know best the last was always, in jail, on probation for a felony - no vote. No longer in jail or on probation, you can vote. A bunch of states have changed the laws recently that even felons on probation etc can now vote. But mostly a political stunt because the people whose voting rights are in question are mostly career criminals and have probably the lowest voter turnout of any demographic. Unless the felon is a politician the real world effect of these "reforms" on voting rights and voter turnout is basically nil.

So another of the Totally Made Up Political "Injustices". But it sure brought it the PAC money for the politicians pushing it.

[Diogenes]

Re: You don't hack the count

ach vote has to be in an envelope and that envelope is not only tied to the voter -- individual address and bar code -- but the signature on the envelop has to match the record on file.

So that is why Fetterman is suing to have unsigned and undated ballots counted?

https://www.newspressnow.com/news/national_news/politics/fetterman-sues-to-have-mail-in-ballots-counted-even-if-not-signed-with-valid-date/article_19b1dac0-daa5-5f7c-8842-dbe082dc4717.html

[DenTheMan]

People prefer misinformation.

True.

Right on.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Dems are toast

A combination of gerrymandering districts and MAGA controlled voting will make sure that the GQP/MAGA get control of both houses.

The next two years will be disastrous for the USA. The MAGA loonies will try to impede Joe Biden who while not being the greatest of presidents, he has hardly done anything impeachable.

The GQP has stated that no non MAGA bills will be passed. That means a Government shutdown.

Democracy in the USA will die when Trumpo gets back into the White House in 2024 and proclaims himself POTUS for life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Dems are toast

"The next two years will be disastrous for the USA"

Are you sure that it wasn't the last 2 years that have been a disaster?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Dems are toast

The Dems might be less toasted if they could actually come up with a credible candidate. The last two elections should have been easy wins for them, it's horrifying how poor a showing they managed.

[The Logo]

Re: The Dems are toast

absolutely on the money. Fascism is on the rise in the US and the amount of people that don't want to think and just have a strong leader (albeit, an orange strong leader) spoonfeed them thoughts for the rest of their pathetic lives has never been any higher.

And the democrats? What have they done? Nothing. Intelligence is a hindrance when reasonable people try to deal with the unreasonable. Get ready for all the AC cavemen to come out with their pitchforks and lynch ropes and take the US of A back to the stone ages.

And get ready for a HUGE talent influx to Europe.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Dems are toast

"Fascism is on the rise in the US"

Its not on the rise, the US is already there. We tried to warn you but you keep voting establishment. The ones being spoon fed are the ones watching mainstream news like MSNPC, CNN and Fox. Keep them sick, keep them stupid and keep them angry. You live under a single party rule but you think by putting your mark on the ballot you are keeping authoritarianism away. Too late.

All the coverage of the 'election', roe etc. is just a smokescreen for what is going on in the background.

[Anonymous Coward]

Repeal section 230

Despite the company's legal efforts as well as validation from CISA, the FBI and the US Director of National Intelligence, the report cited false claims about rigged 2022 elections across Facebook, Instagram, Telegram, Gab, Patriots.win and, of course, 4chan.

Because those outlets are all covered by Section 230, which effectively allows broadcasting unlimited slander to wide audiences at bargain prices.

That's just one reason why I would support complete repeal of section 230 (other reasons include that it allow online selling of fake/dangerous/defective/stolen goods by major internet marketers).

Level the playing field and make social media play by the same rules as the NYT, FOX News, etc., which have to avoid lying to avoid lawsuits.

[Jonathon Green]

I like American politics. It’s funny…

…but then so is ours at the moment!