Foxconn shows off pair of EVs, boasts of bulk orders for last year's model Hon Hai Technology Group, the electronics manufacturer to the stars better known as Foxconn, has debuted two new electric vehicle models and production models of a prototype due to roll on Taiwanese roads in 2023. The new kit emerged on Tuesday at Hon Hai's annual research and development showcase. The new EVs include the …
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Come to think of it, the top speed metric is pointless too.
I see this on Youtube car reviews as well, looking how quick a car gets from 0 to 100 km/h - really? Is that the most relevant metric? OK, maybe is a more tangible indication of how much power (pardon the pun) an EV puts on the road, but it being 0.1 sec faster than another car is not going to make me buy it.
BTW, driving an EV doesn't somehow magically excuse you from the other laws of nature such as wind and roll resistance. Driving at 200 km/h (if you find a place to do it) still means you're energy that would have been enough to power FOUR EVs doing a more normal 120 km/h..
"I wonder how much extra range..."
None (or more), it's electric. The battery is nearly the sole factor in acceleration as the circuitry in these EVs is very robust and can (should) take a much larger load than the battery can provide. Almost exclusively will the battery catch fire before the circuitry so there's basically no room for increasing efficiency outside of altering the battery (somehow). In fact, it's probable that it takes more energy to accelerate slower, as seen as in a basic cordless drill.
Materials wise, EVs are less expensive overall so, I can see how selling vehicles for rebrand can be profitable. However, what if I want an unbranded EV... do they sell those individually?
"Materials wise, EVs are less expensive overall "
Have you got a citation for that? The cost of a reasonable sized battery pack using decent quality cells (60 to 80kWh) is probably equivalent to the rest of the vehicle combined That's why EVs currently cost more than a similar ICE car, at least in the price range I can afford.
Materials wise, EVs are less expensive overall so
Not with the raw materials exploding in cost. Have you seen what copper has done? Also, rare earth material mining comes at significant environmental cost. Just because you don't see it (as it's done in 3rd world countries) doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that's just one aspect of the materials. Try repair of a chassis cast of a single piece of Aluminium, for instance. Also, we're running out of kids to send into cobalt mines.
>> I wonder how much extra range..."
> None (or more), it's electric.
What does that have to do with it? Acceleration requires force, whatever the motive power. If you think increasing force doesn't consume more energy then I have a design for a perpetual motion machine that might interest you.
> it's probable that it takes more energy to accelerate slower, as seen as in a basic cordless drill.
Electric motors produce maximum potential torque at rest. If you make use of that potential then you maximally consume energy. Using less of that potential results in less acceleration and less energy expended. Your screwdriver might not have any means of regulation, I suppose.
> None (or more), it's electric.
I suspect that you meant "or less", but it's still bollocks either way.
-A..
Yes yes, everyone knows that more acceleration requires more force.
What he's saying is, that for a battery large enough to allow a reasonable range you are going to get acceleration that puts most gasoline powered cars to shame without even trying. You have maximum torque available from 0 rpm, which makes them far better at acceleration than gasoline engines.
Sure, you could limit the amount of power you are willing to output to limit both acceleration and top speed, as a way of reducing wear on the components but why artificially limit the car? Let the owner decide if they want to extend the life of the components by accelerating reasonably or say hell with it and reach 100 kph in 3 seconds.
That's sidestepping the argument.
I'm talking about the smug idiots that think that somehow they're saving the world because they're driving electric and then hammer past you on the motorway at illegal speeds. I know a few of them. Well, news flash: doing that makes you part of the problem, not the solution.
> I wonder how much extra range would be possible if the acceleration were a more practical 0-62 in 10 seconds?
You can find out, thanks to a special device operated by a pedal conveniently placed under the right foot.
Using the same gizmo you can also determine how much energy can be saved by accelerating slower still. (Hint: it's a lot.)
-A.
It is *a* metric.
I would say that 40-60mph in top gear is more meaningful for most drivers, except (of course) that EVs don't have (or need) gears.
Top speed can be important. I fairly regularly drive across north eastern Spain down into Alicante province. The "obvious" route, which is generally the one recommended by sat-navs and online route planners involves getting across to the A(P)7 motorway by the Mediterranean coast as quickly as possible, then sitting at the 120kph limit (which is wise; there are plenty of radars).
Experience tells me that going cross-country on two-lane blacktop through Aragon is *much* faster. Providing you are more interested in making progress than observing the niceties of the posted speed limits. It's almost entirely empty, and you can see for miles. The safe maximum speed is quite often as much as your vehicle can manage. The radars are few.
When driving in town, though, I'm often astonished how many drivers seem to think that accelerating maximally to the next traffic lights is some kind of proxy for actually going (on average) any faster. All it does is turn money into noise, and pollution.
-A.
"but it being 0.1 sec faster than another car is not going to make me buy it."
No, but other factors might. That acceleration factor is just one factor and it's aimed at the people who like that sort of thing. The boy racers and EV equivalent of petrol-heads :-)
Same applies to the top speed. You want something in reserve so you're not maxing it out at 7mph on the motorway.
Having said that, I'm not sure if the extra oomf matters so much with EVs as it does with ICE cars.
It may be a useless metric, but OMG is it ever a FUN metric. Kept me sane during Covid lockdown, going out for a drive on empty roads and feeling that 0-100 in 3.4 seconds was pure joy. Maybe it's just one of those things you need to experience first-hand to appreciate.
Given that I had quite a few V8s in my time (European ones, not US) and was very close to Germany I can say I have.
When it comes to that, EVs are actually quite boring but at least they don't burn through a tank of fuel in 15mins flat at top speed. In my experience, the best balance between speed and fuel "economy" (not the right word for a V8 :) ) lies around 130 km/h.
Personally I don't like the whole driver assistance rubbish either, and they made it mandatory to be enabled every time you start the car. There's just a lot of temptation to pay less attention to the road. I tend to disable lane assist things because they tend to be LANE assist, and not TRAFFIC assist, it will quite happily drive you into the edge of a HGV in the next lane with a wide load sticking out.
The two items that seem to be on potential buyers' minds here in the States are how far you can go on a charge (the specs here line up well with what's already available) and how quickly you can recharge (there's a big push for DC fast chargers to be set up at least along the major roadways to get you back on the road ASAP); nothing in the PR here about compatibility. Most of the newer EVs coming out for the US market are touting charge-up to the nominal 80% in the 15-20 minute timeframe via DCFC, which on a road trip gives you time to visit the facilities, grab some snacks for the next leg then be on your way. In practice most driving will happen locally and you'll charge up at home off the mains, but that occasional long haul is a show-stopper to many potential buyers.
Now THOSE are metrics I'd call important as it indeed determines the use of the vehicle.
As a side effect of the work I do have to drive a lot long distance (think a few times per month, with distances over 400km), mixed with local traffic. The car I'm probably going to buy doesn't even come in an electric only version, but as a plug in hybrid which is the only option I have to combine the two use cases in one vehicle. The alternative is two separate cars, which is IMHO more damaging.
I've debated a plug-in as the next vehicle buy, but all the ones I've seen to date seem to give you around 30 miles/50 km on the battery before you're back on the ICE; helps the fuel economy numbers but doesn't seem all that compelling. May as well make the fuel tank a bit bigger and be done with it.
"all the ones I've seen to date seem to give you around 30 miles/50 km on the battery before you're back on the ICE"
Yeah, that's the use case they're going for - people who live in the city and will do 95% of their journeys (and maybe 50% of their mileage) within the electric-only range, but having the petrol for a handful of long journeys per year or whatever. PHEV is still by far the best format for that customer segment.
Let's just say I have a mildly better budget than most so the one I plan to buy quote 111km range, and if that is in slow city traffic it's quite possible it can hit 75% of that. On motorways you lose a lot to roll and wind resistance, but the electric part definitely comes into its own in start/stop environments.
However, you lose range because you're also hauling an ICE along so win some, lose some.
You can't easily rate on charging time because it depends on the available chargers. A company could set up one 800 kw fast charger at the HQ and do their ratings based on that, even though you might have to drive further the car's range from where you live to reach any charger that powerful.
That's also rarely important. If you have the ability to charge at home you would have to drive more than the car's range in a single day to care how long it takes to charge, because you will be plugging your car in every night at home and it'll always be "full" when you leave in the morning. I go on such long drives maybe 2-3x a year, so fast charging time isn't something I would consider all that important when buying an electric car.
Good point. Whatever people may think of Musk, Tesla shook up the EV market and arguably brought ot forward by some years. The incumbents really were dragging their heels until Tesla came along, stole their lunch and drove off into the distance while they were still wondering if EVs might be practical. Another shake up may well be due in the way cars are designed and built. "Unbranded white box" cars that other companies can "brand", similar to laptops and tablets coming out of the far east now.
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