back to article Apple says 2017 MacBooks don't have FlexGate defect. Aussie tribunal orders a fix anyway

Apple has been ordered to repair a MacBook Pro that displays all the symptoms of FlexGate – the syndrome of screen defects that the company has previously repaired for free – but which the company does not believe has the problem. The Order came from the Civil and Administrative Tribunal in the Australian State of New South …

  1. simonlb Silver badge
    FAIL

    Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

    So Apple had already admitted there was an issue with 2016 model year machines and offered free repairs. Now someone rocks up with a 2017 model displaying the exact same issue but it's immediately dismissed as 'not the same issue' so not covered by the free repair.

    Any company with an ounce of common sense would do the sensible thing, investigate, be truthful about their findings and offer a free repair if it's essentially the same issue. Sadly, it seems to be the standard response for these high-value companies, especially Apple and Tesla.

    1. msknight

      Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

      A capitalist would say that this is how they are among the richest companies on the planet. By not actually spending it putting things right and instead forcing customers to spend even more money. The capitalist would pat them on the back and say, "Keep it up!"

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        Well, the user is obviously wrong. Apple is perfect in every way, every day. Their technology is flawless and never fails. He's obviously holding it wrong.

        Prediction: The tribunal will be rebuffed with Cupertino horse plop legalese and they'll have to sue them.

        If someone needs a court order to get a flawed product fixed, your a moron if you buy that product.

      2. teknopaul

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        Fyib"Capitalist" means someone who believes in the system where people have the right to own the means of production (capital) and live off that.

        Despite the common misinterpretation, capitalist does not justify being a money grabbing bunch of c*nts.

        1. tekHedd

          Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

          Unfortunately, many people now assume the legal obligations of incorporated companies (to maximize value) is the definition of "capitalism", where in fact there are many successful strategies for making money when trading goods and services for money, many of which actually (and counterintuitively) involve the goodwill and sometimes (shock) even the benefit of the consumer.

        2. Youngone Silver badge

          Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

          ..."Capitalist" means someone who believes in the system...

          If the system needs me to believe in it to work then its a pretty poor system.

          1. abstract

            Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

            Everything is about your beliefs. Why would they lie otherwise? Because you abide by what you believe.

      3. TheMeerkat

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        “A Capitalist would say”…

        Only someone who benefited from Capitalism and who know nothing about alternatives would say that.

        If it was not for Capitalism one would have no redress via courts at all. It is Capitalism that immensely improves the quality of the products.

        1. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

          > If it was not for Capitalism one would have no redress via courts at all

          Are you trying to imply that Capitalists created consumer protection laws? The ones that irritate them so much?

          Or are you trying to say that Capitalism invented Courts of Law? There are a few dead monarchs who would like a word with you.

    2. tristangoode

      Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

      It's quite absurd of them, my research shows there are 7 models affected and there's a tonne of evidence available. The affected models (other than the 2x 206 units, are:

      MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports)

      MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)

      MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2018, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports)

      MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2018, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)

      MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016)

      MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)

      MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018)

      So if you have one of these that stagelights or wont open without the screen blanking and you're in Australia, I'm up for helping you get it sorted. I'm working with about a dozen people already, and really enjoying it.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        They fight over each individual model and have done for a long time, despite bringing the same design defects to all the same class of models in one year and over from one year to the next.

        The 2012 non-retina MacBook Pro with discrete graphics suffered from the same overheating problems as the 2012 retina MacBook Pro models, but they never ran an extended guarantee for that model.

    3. Wade Burchette

      Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

      Apple is the kind of company that has a cult following. As Louis Rossman put it, if any other company did what Apple has done, people would have gone with a different company.

      And it is my opinion that the cult has gone to their head. While all companies "deny wrongdoing", Apple takes it to a whole new level. It seems to me that Apple would rather spend $100 million in the court than spend $1 million and admit a mistake. It seems to me that Apple would do whatever it takes to make their people believe they are perfect in every way, including lying to them.

      1. oiseau
        Facepalm

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        ... would rather spend $100 million in the court than spend $1 million and admit a mistake.

        So it seems ...

        But, just how do they explain that to their shareholders?

        Maybe they don't have to, 100M does not move the needle in the Apple dividends game.

        O.

      2. steviebuk Silver badge

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        I argue with my partner and her family now and then about Apple as they all love them, I still hate them. I even tried to use her old MacBook to get used to the OS but it came with a tiny HDD. I looked at an upgrade and not only do you have to buy specific RAM that is inflated, same with the HDD and it's a really old model now.

        I can't get them away from Apple as they always say "Its just so easy and connects so easily with my other devices".

        I give up.

        1. FIA Silver badge

          Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

          If you can replace the RAM in it just use standard PC RAM, it’ll be fine.

          Same with the HD.

          You might need the utility to enable TRIM if putting an SSD in an older mac.

          I can't get them away from Apple as they always say "Its just so easy and connects so easily with my other devices".

          Why do you care what other people use? It sounds like they’re happy with their choices?

          1. teknopaul

            Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

            Re: "Why do you care what other people use? It sounds like they’re happy with their choices?"

            If Apple get away with these scams it effects everyone because all the rest have to copy to compete.

            Take the app store for example: Apple have been allowed to get away with charging 30% to install software on computers. I have an Android, but because Apple do it, Google get away with 15% and look like the good guys.

            1. keith_w

              Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

              google will take 30% if I buy a book from Kobo on my phone. I avoid this issue by buying books on one of my other non-Android devices.

          2. MrDamage Silver badge

            Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

            Because we're the ones who are expected to troubleshoot Apple's nonsensical bullshit. It all "just works", until it doesn't.

          3. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

            Happy with their Choices

            He cares what his partner's relatives use because, like many tech geeks, he (and I) want our friends, etc., to get good economic value for their tech investments, and for them to not support corporate assholes.

            I understand his partner's relatives viewpoint: they want to throw (perhaps "too much") money at problems they won't want to spend their time solving.

            On a practical note, is it possible to easily open a modern Mac and replace the RAM and HD within? Will they work with "standard" RAM and HDs/SSDs?

            1. tristangoode

              Re: Happy with their Choices

              I've found the 2011 Macbook Air works great on ChromeOS Flex, and a 2015 MacBook Pro works really well on various Linux flavours (Linux Mint seems to be the easiest UI transition for a noob), both on the original RAM and HDD sizing. If your rellos are a gmail user, try ChromeOS Flex. Very simple and very low maintenance.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Happy with their Choices

              Out of all the complaints thrown at Apple, this is the one I don't get.

              When I buy a device, I plan on its expected life and so get it with enought CPU and RAM. I have not had to upgrade a device for over a decade now.

              As for "economic value", that argument only holds water if you considere your own time as of no value whatsoever. If you do, Apple gear isn't that expensive anymore.

              Can they do better with some issues? Absolutely, but they're really no different to any other company out there who won't tell you somethings is bust unless they can absolutely not avoid it. When stuff works, however, it does so for quite some time.

              1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

                "Expected Life of Computer Purchases"

                My, and others', "expected (by us) life" of our computer purchases is far-longer than your own. Thus, the need for upgrades.

              2. that one in the corner Silver badge

                Re: Happy with their Choices

                > As for "economic value", that argument only holds water if you considere your own time as of no value whatsoever. If you do, Apple gear isn't that expensive anymore

                The commenter you are replying to is using their time to help their friends/relatives to get better economic value - the value *they* get from investing the time is in friendship and social terms.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Happy with their Choices

                  I'd caveat that heavily, though, as that "freindship" is usually limited to "can you fix my computer after I have been a total end user, oh, and don't tell my wife about the pictures you see on it".

                  I'm done being nice on that front.

            3. A.P. Veening Silver badge

              Re: Happy with their Choices

              He cares what his partner's relatives use because, like many tech geeks, he (and I) want our friends, etc., to get good economic value for their tech investments, and for them to not support corporate assholes.

              Besides that, he most likely is the first one they turn to when problems occur.

              Being in that same position with my wife (her family is sufficiently far away in combination with a language incompatibility they don't turn to me for help), I've made it abundantly clear I don't know anything about Apple products anymore as I left the church of St. Jobs with the demise of my Apple ][.

            4. FIA Silver badge

              Re: Happy with their Choices

              He cares what his partner's relatives use because, like many tech geeks, he (and I) want our friends, etc., to get good economic value for their tech investments,

              Surely you want your friends and family to be happy with their tech investments too?

              Not everyone places economic value at the top of their personal check list, that one took me years to understand.

              Plus, if you've spent many years being free tech support for everyone, it can be very liberating to just go 'Oh... is that an Apple, no, sorry I don't know anything about them'.

              and for them to not support corporate assholes.

              If you want a phone that does 'modern things' you're kind of out of luck here unfortunatly. :(

              I understand his partner's relatives viewpoint: they want to throw (perhaps "too much") money at problems they won't want to spend their time solving.

              Yes. Time has value too, especially as you age. The amount of 'fucking around' I want to spend getting a piece of technology to work in my 40s is far lower than the amount I'd spend in my 20s.

              On a practical note, is it possible to easily open a modern Mac and replace the RAM and HD within? Will they work with "standard" RAM and HDs/SSDs?

              Nope. :(

              The poster above was referring to an old mac, if it's one you can replace the RAM in then it will take some standard (probably laptop) RAM. I had an iMac from 2013ish, that took standard SO-DIMMs of some variety. (DDR3 I think?)

              Replacing the HD in it was sustantially harder though, and involved removing the bonded screen. Which then required special tape to re-attach. Not for the feint hearted.

              1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

                "Economic Value"

                @FIA: When I wrote of some geeks' desire to have their friends', etc. get good economic value from their tech investments I meant in terms of maximizing the amount of RAM, disc (or SSD), and CPU horsepower for each dollar spent. It's an outgrowth of an almost Scroogelike compulsion to wring the last possible bit of use out of any piece of equipment, and a hoarder-like aversion to throwing out any potentially-still-useful piece of equipment. I have a degree of both of these sorts of compulsions, though I recognize them for what they are and consciously tamp them down. Technogeeks who have these impulses hate to see their friends "wasting money" on low bang-per-buck equipment.

                I certainly understand people have non-economic factors they look at when making buying decisions, and never claimed purchasers should ignore those factors.

                I do not accept the assumption which I see in many of these posts that current Apple products are somehow, magically trouble-free, and that anyone not using an Apple operating system will necessarily waste their own and/or tech-friends' time fixing problems.

                I have purchased multiple Apple products, and am still happy with them (they still work). But they are old Apple products, made by rhe old Apple company. I will buy nothing from the new Apple, Inc., due to their corporate policies and their current design values, which are diametrically opposed to my own.

      3. navarac Silver badge

        Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

        It doesn't help that the so-called Apple Rep didn't have a clue what they were talking about. With the profits that Apple make, I would have hoped they'd have buckled under and done the right thing. Too easy be far, though.

        1. tristangoode

          Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

          Yeah I'm not sure this wasn't strategic. The answer to more than one question was "I don't know", and many times the Tribunal member had to ask for the answer to be repeated because it was impossible to hear clearly.

          It was in stark contrast to the case prior to mine, where a gentleman took on Apple over his defective iPhone. The apple rep was adept, and it seemed there might have been legal advice being provided to the rep by one or more other persons.

          Anyway, he won too.

    4. aerogems Silver badge

      Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

      The answer is math.

      Somewhere within the datastores at Cupertino is no doubt plenty of info documenting this issue. The issue was then passed along to some beancounter to do the math. How much would it cost to do a full recall (special repair program) vs how much would it likely cost them in terms of lawsuits and the like if they do nothing. Whichever costs less generally wins.

      It's the same basic method auto makers and almost any other company uses.

    5. jgarbo
      Devil

      Re: Why Do They Insist On Blatantly Denying Anything Is Wrong?

      First rule of (monopoly) business: SELL!! No refunds, no repairs, no replacements. For Fanbois it's a monopoly, and Apple know it.

  2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Apparently

    He's holding it wrong.

    1. msknight

      Re: Apparently

      He's opening and closing it wrong :-)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apparently

        Opening the box it came from was the first mistake.

        1. navarac Silver badge

          Re: Apparently

          First mistake, was buying an over-price-inflated Apple "thing" at all!

    2. Mike 125

      Re: Apparently

      He's viewing it wrong.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. oiseau
      Facepalm

      Re: Apparently

      He's holding it wrong.

      Hmm ...

      Could be.

      But from where I stand, what I see is that what is wrong is the choice of hardware vendor.

      If I received as a gift, I'd sell it at discount and get myself some

      Should I receive an Apple MacBook for my birthday/anniversary/xmas, win it in a contest or whatever (very doubtful but still remotely possible) I would not even bother to take it out of the box.

      I would flog it a discount to some fanboy and purchase decent hardware with the cash.

      O.

      1. tristangoode

        Re: Apparently

        Yeah I'm not sure what I'll do with it now, I still have the box and all its ingredients, and even the tissue paper that sits between the screen and keyboard. (I can think of an immediate use for that)

        The reason I bought it was only because the little MacBook Air I bought in 2011 was so solid. It superceded a Vaio, and at that time, the metal shelled laptops weren't common. It's still firing away, and it was part of my evidence presented in the case as to what my expectations were about quality and longevity. It's done 24,760 hours of use according to S.M.A.R.T, and it ran Mint for a while but now happily runs ChromeOS for my mother in law.

        I had a Mac in 1985, had an iphone for few weeks in 2009, but have no other apple gear, nor ever intend to have.

        1. David 132 Silver badge

          Re: Apparently

          I have a 27” iMac, bought new in 2010. It’s still soldiering on. I’ve upgraded the original HDD to an SSD, upgraded the RAM, and even swapped out the original socketed Core i5 processor for a faster Core i7. It’s been one of the most durable and long-lasting PCs I’ve ever bought.

          I occasionally looked at getting a newer iMac, but each year they seemed to get more and more restricted. Non-upgradable storage, CPU… and on the latest ones the screen glass is bonded to the chassis in a way that positively deters disassembly. So I never bothered. These days I run Intel NUCs instead. Far more flexible and upgradeable.

          Apple seem to have disappeared up their own posterior as far as the balance between style and practicality goes.

  3. lglethal Silver badge
    Go

    If it is the same cable as in the 2016 model which is defined as being defective, unless there is a major design change at the joint that means the shorter length is now acceptable in the 2017 model, and nothing I've read speaks of ANY design changes in this area, then it should be quite clear that the 2017 model is ALSO defective. To claim anything else is just nonsense.

    Too bad Apple cant get a right kicking for such blatant bollocks, but most of the consumer protection agencies have been so hobbled by lobbied governments that they dont have the resources to go after even blatant cases like this...

    1. tristangoode

      I went and bought affected screens from independent (non Apple authorized) repairers to prove my point. I did not purchase 15 inch model screens, but I reckon they fail because their design genius used the same physical design dimensions as the 13 inch models.

  4. Mike 125

    It's not hard

    "Apple's environmental impact FAQ to assert that the company designs its products to last four years – making problems that manifested in 2021 reasonable for Goode's 2017 MacBook."

    "He even mentioned that a 2011 MacBook he gave to a relative still performs perfectly (running Linux to avoid using an unsupported OS)."

    I bought 2 Dell business lappys off eBay for £150 a piece in early 2017. They were manufactured around 2012/2013.

    With WIN10 latest and Dell BIOS/driver updates, old drivers for odd bits of hardware (hence no Linux), Visual Studio 10 (I know, I know- but it works), sleep modes, etc., they perform pretty much perfectly. And that's a very high bar for me.

    Not wishing to big up Msoft (or Dell), but that's pretty decent for backwards compatibility and tech lifetime.

    Why people put up with Apple's garbage is utterly beyond me.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: It's not hard

      I suppose if your USP is being the new shiny being long-lived is irrelevant.

      1. Mike 125

        Re: It's not hard

        It used to be new, shiny and *it just works*, which I could accept.

        If the people want new, shiny and *it's just garbage*, they've only got themselves to blame.

        1. David 132 Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: It's not hard

          >it just works

          Maybe it's only me, but I always read that with the alternative interpretation of "just" - i.e., "barely".

          "It barely works".

          Apparently as regards the screen cable on their laptops, "it's juuuuuuust long enough"?

          1. tristangoode

            Re: It's not hard

            That's an excellent observation. "It barely works!"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's not hard

      Apple should respond better to complaints and the case should be pursued, as it doesn't seem beyond reasonable bounds that the 2016 issue may have rolled into 2017. This is especially so as the devices are not actually made by Apple themselves and there is an assumption that a decision by Apple to change a part was actually addressed throughout the supply chain - I'm not formally in IT but I had a career helping manage complex supply chains in another sector (that had a significant IT element).

      As an aside, however, it would be good to get an impartial account of this instance as the reporting appears to start with the premise that the complainant is 100% right. It's not unknown for genuine complaints to get exaggerated along the way, to emphasise the point needing to be made. The consequence of that is often a more aggressive denial.

      On the matter of Apple tat - my own experience, as somebody who switched from Windows (high end laptops) to Mac around 10 years ago for my own use, it may be more expensive for the initial capital outlay but the lifetime cost is certainly no greater. My original 2011 iMac has only just been retired from service as my daily desktop - it still performs as well as when bought, but the needs of modern software have overtaken it. It's recently been wiped and in may be line for donation to a charity and a new life as a public internet hub.

      1. lglethal Silver badge
        Go

        Re: It's not hard

        On a side note, I think you will find the general consensus is that the quality of Apple kit has dropped off significantly in the last 5-6 years, compared to what it previously was.

        My wife's 2008 Macbook is still going strong hardware wise (but the software is now causing problems since so much cant be installed properly on the old OS). But newer kit seems to have no end of problem. So your 2011 iMac still going strong would be expected, but with a newer mac, i dont think you can expect the same level of service and longevity I'm afraid.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple should respond better to complaints

        Why on earth would they, if there is no evidence that to not do so has no effect on their profits ?

        Generally you need the law to make capitalism even vaguely ethical.

        1. oiseau
          Facepalm

          Re: Apple should respond better to complaints

          Generally You will always need the law to make capitalism even vaguely ethical.

          There you go, fixed it a bit.

          Now it reads as what is/has been going on for the longest while.

          And it is getting worse by the minute.

          No one in govenment (any government) gives a flying flamingo® about consumer's rights, check party donations and such to find out why.

          So getting thoroughly shafted is generally the norm.

          O.

          * flying flamingo

    3. localzuk Silver badge

      Re: It's not hard

      4 years? Seems unreasonably low. Computers last considerably longer. Hell, we buy laptops on 5 year leases here now, but the ones they replaced were hitting 7 years old.

  5. DenTheMan

    Acceptance is seldom financially beneficial.

    The Steve Jobs nickle and dime approach has seldom failed Apple.

    Just look at the iPhone its small battery and old battery standards.

    Self healing batteries with 1600+ cycles have hot the high end but the 500 cycle 2 year lifespan is an obvious bigger win.

    With both, if you do not have to, why bother with an obvious way to lose money.

    1. FIA Silver badge

      Re: Acceptance is seldom financially beneficial.

      Genuinely confused as to what your point is here?

      If it’s any help I’m confused from a nearly 5 year old iPhone 8 with 84% battery life.

      (Sure the SSD is on the way out but the battery is grand).

  6. SuperGeek

    Display cable?

    That looks more like heat damage due to the machine heat being ejected towards the screen. Apple for some reason put the heatsink/fan between the base and screen. DELL copied that with my G3 3779. It causes the plastic layers (refractors, deflectors, etc) in the screen to warp. A display cable too short would flex and break, causing coloured lines, and other symptoms. I've had laptops that have pulled the LVDS socket off the back of the screen due to a manufacturing defect, or it having been previously fiddled with and put back wrongly.

    1. tristangoode

      Re: Display cable?

      Heat might exacerbate it, I don't know. But it's easy to see the stress point when you open up the inards of laptop and analyse the physics at play. It's at it's worst when the screen is opened fully which is pretty much how I mostly used mine, propped up on my knees laying on the couch or elsewhere comfortable.

  7. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    the Apple representative's audio was characteristically poor

    This is not a good advertisement either.

    1. Winkypop Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: the Apple representative's audio was characteristically poor

      Maybe there was a Penguin standing on the wire?

    2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: the Apple representative's audio was characteristically poor

      Could well be deliberate. I've been on calls where people have been summoned to provide their evidence, and despite all the benefits of modern technology, high quality laptop & webcam, office building with fast stable WiFi... they still managed to appear like the 1980s called wanting their videophone back.

      And yet on other calls where THEY wanted something, under exactly the same environmental conditions, they appeared clear as day.

  8. Lordrobot

    Apple should not warrant 5 and 6 year old laptops

    Apple is not an extension of the Welfare office. Warranties for computers last only so long. Trying to beat a Warranty by claiming defective manufacturing or defective design is next to impossible. That is a very complex and expensive legal process. And it is Summary Judgement time for Apple. To prove a legal case of this kind you have to prove that a better, equally cost-effective design is superior, not JUST AS GOOD. And you have to prove the issue is widespread through all of the devices. So, you have NO CASE.

    I often wonder when I am posting on TReg, what kind of people I am encountering. Enormous numbers of you love Government entanglements of every kind. You almost universally oppose Capitalism and Competition. There are now a handful of operating systems that port to various hardware. Apple is proprietary. To use the Apple OS you need apple hardware or an apple virtual machine. Think about the LOGIC of this. The only reason to use an Apple Machine is Apple Software and the apple OS.

    But there is hardly any software for apple by comparison to PCs. That choice is personal but not logical. Apple OS is stable it is Unix based. But it hardly has any software. It is not a business machine. So to get this Apple OS you love, with a paucity of software, you complain about the laptop screen wearing out over 5 years in some cases. Get a life. And getting Gov to back you with its crazy populist entitlement stuff is mindless. Apple is large enough and Australia small enough that Apple could just walk from the market and say we don't sell our machines in Australia so if you live in Australia and buy one of our machines you are on your own. Australia is turning into New Zealand. Good luck with that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple should not warrant 5 and 6 year old laptops

      Are you still touchingly under the impression that the Earth has infinite resources and can we can turn those infinite resources into pointless shiny tat using an infinite supply of energy?

    2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: Apple should not warrant 5 and 6 year old laptops

      I'm probably one of Apple's biggest defenders here; el Reg (and the majority of the Commentard cohort) are usually vehemently anti-Apple so I often read these articles with a jaundiced eye.

      That said - Apple are wrong here, and so are you. If a 2016 machine is known to have a manufacturing problem which limits the lifespan, and a 2017 machine has exactly the same issue, it's unreasonable for Apple to start a free repair programme for one but refuse the other; all other factors being equal.

      Also note that Goode isn't fighting to force Apple to repair ALL 2017 machines for free, just his.

      1. tristangoode

        Re: Apple should not warrant 5 and 6 year old laptops

        I'm afraid you are also wrong my friend.

        I absolutely am fighting to force Apple to repair ALL Flexgate affected machines. Leading up to the hearing I managed to find a few supporters, but I needed a win to get the message out further. I got that and now I'm helping a lot more people with their Flexgate situation, in Australia and elsewhere. I'm overwhelmed with the response and am happily providing my evidence, notes, the tribunal order, and advice to anyone that requests it.

        Also, if you're in the cult, those outsiders do seem mighty hostile.

        1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

          Re: Apple should not warrant 5 and 6 year old laptops

          I should have said what you WERE fighting for rather than ARE. You're now taking it further, and I wish you luck with that.

          Having said that, this case was about YOUR laptop and nobody else's. The Order from the tribunal was explicit in the fact that they were ruling on an individual situation, and not the wider context. The fact that you may be taking the fight further as a SUBSEQUENT step doesn't change this fact.

          "The Order does not, however, offer an opinion on whether 2017 and 2018 MacBooks have the FlexGate issue. Deciding that matter was not necessary to determine that this individual computer was not free of defects."

          And for clarity; I'm not in a cult, and I'm not your friend. I just hate bias and misinformation from all parties on all sides.

        2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

          Re: Apple should not warrant 5 and 6 year old laptops

          On a related note, telling people who are on your side that they are wrong, and implying they're in a cult, is a surefire way to get them NOT on your side very quickly indeed. I'll still wish you luck because as I wrote in my original comment it's unreasonable for Apple to limit repairs to a specific year when there is ample evidence that the problem persisted long past that year, but your comment has left a somewhat sour taste.

  9. that one in the corner Silver badge

    Stagelights - surely that is an Apple feature

    Apple should just have provided a screen-saver of an applauding audience:

    Your Mac is showing you stagelights, because You Are The Star for buying Apple, now is your time to take a bow.

  10. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

    Every time my eyes saw Goode my brain thought Google. Gave a completely different interpretation of the outcome.

    1. tristangoode

      Haha. No those guys are evil.

  11. tristangoode

    Another Win!!! One of you wonderful people that contacted me with their Flexgate problem (and wishes to stay anon) got granted a free repair on Friday for their 2017 unit, using a copy of my NCAT Order. It went down like this:

    Genius bar this morning as follows

    Junior genius chap. "needs a new display out of warranty so you will have to pay"

    Me : Can I speak with a manager ?

    manager : After explaining about your tribunal win " well that's an individual case, cannot apply that to all"

    Me : Pulling out your tribunal letter – Then i'll take this to NSW Tribunal as evidenced by this letter.

    manager : Reading your letter with furrowed brow

    Manager in hushed chat with Junior guy

    Junior guy and manager : well you have done your research and to avoid the matter going higher we will repair it free.

    So it's possible folks! Go for it, be calm and firm, and if they push back, feel free to let them know that I will be there at your Tribunal hearing. =)

  12. sharanjs

    Stagelight Case In India

    I purchased a MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports) and it displayed the same problems within a year but I reported to Apple a few days after lapse of warranty. Since then I had been chatting with Apple people but they refused to repair it free. Ultimately I got it repaired from my own pocket and filed a consumer complaint against Apple in the DISTRICT CONSUMER DISPUTES REDRESSAL COMMISSION in Mohali, Punjab, India in 2021. The case is ongoing. I would like to have a copy of the Order of NCAT mentioned in the news item. Do not find it on NCAT website. Can somebody help me to obtain it? Though products of Apple have some edge over others, their practices and lies are too much.

    1. tristangoode

      Re: Stagelight Case In India

      Hi!, NCAT orders are not made public, but I'm happy to send you a copy if you contact me outside of here. Find me on LinkedIn and we'll go from there.

  13. Snow & Zouki

    I have the very same problem with my MacBook Pro 2017 , I am from Canada and I need to change the screen , what can I do ?

  14. Dchen181

    Would be able able to provide a copy of the NCAT letter? I have a 2016 flexgate model impacted and they won’t fix, no longer under warranty or the free repair period

  15. mikevuelo

    MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports)

    Hello all,

    I have a "MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports)" with the very same flexgate/screen issue described here (flashlights + with the screen even turning off/blanking if I open my macbook past a certain angle). I do live in Europe though (Spain).

    Needless to say that tried to contact Apple throughout the past couple of years (several times) and was told that my model was not applicable for the repair process.

    Do any of you know what I could do at this stage? Any thoughts?

    I would definitely not spend around 750 - 800 AUD (≈ 500 EUR) for a new screen/the repair process, but at the same time my macbook works perfectly fine except for that flexgate issue.

    Thanks!

    Mike

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