Trees may help power your next electric car

A Swedish-Finnish commercial partnership could be the first step toward commercially viable wood-derived batteries for electric vehicles. Swedish battery maker Northvolt has signed a joint development agreement with Swedish-Finnish paper products company Stora Enso that lays out how the pair will work to develop batteries made …

[Horst U Rodeinon]

And this is going to solve CO2 problems how?

As I understand the article, the company is going to be clear cutting forests which are a principle means of photosynthesizing CO2 in order to produce batteries which require manufacturing facilities that produce CO2 as part of their processes.

[John Robson]

Re: And this is going to solve CO2 problems how?

Well since the carbon is captured into the lignodes... they simply plant more trees, which will therefore continue to absorb more carbon dioxide.

[that one in the corner]

Re: And this is going to solve CO2 problems how?

The trees are already being cut down - and replanted to ensure a continuing supply - in order to make paper (Swedish-Finnish paper products company Stora Enso). Lignin is removed from the pulp in that process (otherwise you get rubbish paper).

This new process aims to use that byproduct lignin as a source of carbon to make batteries - batteries that likely wouldn't use carbon, but something less eco-friendly to collect, as the carbon anode tech is still in development.

The process to manufacture completed batteries will release CO2 - as any manufacturing does - but the claim here appears to be that this will be less than if non-carbon-anode batteries were made instead and that moving towards a more battery-powered world, as well that using up someone else's byproduct, is generally a Good Thing.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: And this is going to solve CO2 problems how?

At end of life of the battery the carbon in the anode might be burned but if it isn't, if, say, it's buried, then it's going to be kept out of circulation for a very long time. Apart from oxidation by burning elemental carbon is very stable.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: And this is going to solve CO2 problems how?

"the company is going to be clear cutting forests which are a principle means of photosynthesizing CO2"

The trees are quite transient on a geological timescale. Even if uncut the forest will reach equilibrium as trees age, die, decay and are replaced. You actually sequester more carbon in the long run if you fell the trees and store the product for a long time, say as the framework of a building.

[Lars]

Re: And this is going to solve CO2 problems how?

I don't think you know much about forests.

To make them thrive and be productive you need to help them. We know a lot about it both in Finland and Sweden and they grow today more than ever before (partly due to bad things too like the climate change).

Finland has the largest amount of forest in western Europe.

Taken care of properly forests are very renewable.

Some more forest fires would be good for the health and diversity of them, but there are some problems involved too, as we all know.

[that one in the corner]

Isn't it Good, Norwegian^^^^^^^^^Finnish Wood

An interesting result of this is that we could literally point at the battery and say "look, in there is the carbon that the trees we're re-planting have sequestered for us".

Of course, how long it remains in there is another question.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Isn't it Good, Norwegian^^^^^^^^^Finnish Wood

See my comment above. As elemental carbon it's a lot easier to keep from returning to the atmosphere than it would be as lignin.

[Platinum blond(e)]

Yes as noted Stora Enso has oodles of lignin from their pulp and paper making processes. So this is finding a use for a byproduct. BTW they have many mills and pulp plantations around the world. If this works out there could be many others to source the lignin from, too.

Source: bro, relatives and many friends work(ed) at Stora Enso plants in central Wisconsin.

[Doctor Syntax]

What happens to the waste lignin at present?

[breakfast]

It's just lignin about the place.

[TRT]

Converted into a rough underlay for wallpaper. AKA lignin paper.

[Anonymous Coward]

Stora Enso and other paper manufacturers have been researching lignin based products for years. I read an article years ago that talked about all the cool properties of lignin and how you can use it as a source for many things. The downside was the cost of processing is very high. According to the article. You can make absolutely anything out of lignin.. except money.

[John Brown (no body)]

I once had a wooden car...

...it had wooden wheels, wooden doors, wooden batteries and wooden motors. Sadly, it wooden go.

I upgraded to a Rolls Canardly. It Rolls down hill but Canardly get up the other side.

(With thanks to The Beano joke writer, c1966)

Yeah, yeah, I've got my coat,, I won't be here all week.

[Lars]

Re: I once had a wooden car...

@John Brown (no body)

You should have had one of these "wooden" cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas

A guy I know has one, originally more for fun, but today he can actually save some money too.

[TRT]

Re: I once had a wooden car...

Or one of these, maybe?

[Kevin McMurtrie]

Not a steam powered car?

I could easily get the boiler pressurized in the time it takes the drivers in front of me to peek around their phone to see if the light has changed.

[Eugene Crosser]

Cathodes or anodes?

> lignin just makes great cathodes

> to turn lignin into a hard-carbon material called Lignode, which will be used as the anode material

> anode entirely sourced from European raw materials.

> Northvolt said it will [...] produce more than 100GWh of cathode material

So, cathodes or anodes?

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Cathodes or anodes?

I think they process cats to make the cathodes, so probably a typo :-)

[TRT]

Re: Cathodes or anodes?

Catholics, actually. And for the other pole they use Anglicans.

[Ken Moorhouse]

Sceptics out there...

Will think this is a load of pollards.

[Jan 0]

improved charcoal

For most of the last century, batteries had a Zinc container and a charcoal conductor rod down the centre of the paste cathode. So plus ca change ....

[jmch]

Power?

Details seem scant on how good these batteries are expected/planned (/even dreamed) to be in terms of both power and energy storage capacity per mass/volume of battery

[TRT]

What we really want to know is...

Will this technology only be available for the Leaf?